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Old 02-07-2014, 12:10 PM   #1
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A Well-Formulated, Low-Carb Diet (Phinney/Volek)

Out of embarassment over my typo, I am restarting the thread.

Interview with Phinney & Volek from youtube with notes below.


My notes (there is more in the video on exercise, cholesterol, and other topics)

Key to finding most appropriate diet – key is finding what level of carbohydrate tolerance you have. Varies by person; no one perfect diet. Some do well on high carb, Ornish or typical American diet, others may do poorly. People who have insulin resistance, metabolic syndrome, type II diabetes, do much better on a low carbohydrate diet. Insulin resistance = carbohydrate intolerance.

From an evolutionary perspective, we are hard-wired to respond to a low-carbohydrate diet if follow for more than a few weeks.

Generally, keto adaptation, under 50 grams per day. If very insulin resistant, have to be under 25 to allow to get into a fat-for-fuel mode.

When I (Steve) turned 50, only way to get weight and blood pressure under control, I (Steve) stay under 50 grams.

When keto-adapting, your kidneys dump salt, the tone of blood vessels change, this is why blood pressure goes down. (Steve adds): dumping of water lowers blood pressure. A high fat meal before keto-adapting will show detrimental effects. This goes away after keto-adapting.

There is a minimum amount of salt that is required to avoid light-headedness, dizziness, headache, fatigue, and constipation. We encourage 1-2 cups of moderately-salted broth per day, I encourage your own for better nutrition. You need to maintain a salt and water, a fluid balance to avoid these complications.

A well-forumlated low carbohydrate: we recommend people eat a lot of vegetables and a modest amount of low-sugar fruits to get a range of micronutrients, vitamins, and minerals.. If you do this, you don’t need a lot of supplements. Typically, we recommend the low-starch vegetables, avoiding higher-carb vegetables that would knock you out of ketosis. Salad vegetables, the more colorful vegetables. Most vegetables contain a fair amount of fiber so these have a minimal impact on blood sugar and insulin response and tend to be compatible with maintaining a state of ketosis. Adequate potassium intake for muscle and cellular function.

Impact of exercise on weight loss is highly variable and individual, based on genetics.
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Old 02-07-2014, 12:27 PM   #2
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Thanks for posting this. I found his statemetns about eating a lot of vegetables and some fruits to be interesting. There's been a theme on the NK threads here to get carbs as low as possible, and while it's well-intentioned, I'm afraid some of us (definitely me) have come to think of veggies and fruit as BAD. After developing some digestive problems, I'm going back to a very basic low-carb diet, NK-style (keeping the protein moderate). I hope the added veggies and occasional berries will cure what ails me.
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Old 02-07-2014, 01:01 PM   #3
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Thanks from me, too, Keytones. Started off full of enthusiasm, lost 6lbs in 3 weeks, menstruated, gained 2lbs, stalled, then either overdosed on avocado or caught an infection that resulted in a three day tummy upset.

Trying now to work out how to make this work for me. I started re-reading P&V yesterday - paying attention this time.

Thanks again!
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Old 02-07-2014, 01:19 PM   #4
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Thanks for checking out the thread!

MerryKate - I have had the same problem. I think that what is needed is something to feed the gut bacteria. What people don't really know is that we need to feed the critters that inhabit us to maintain health. Check out Chris Kresser interview with Jeff Leach (need to google).

Basically, some of us really, really need to be on a low carb diet. But this starves the beneficial bacteria and can have some long-term negative effects. This can be addressed. I am adding resistant starch to the diet (Bob's Redmill Unmodified Potato Starch) to feed the beneficial bacteria. When they are starved, they go for the mucus lining of the intestines and consume that. This is not a good thing! The potato starch is not digested as carbs, it goes down to the intestines and feeds the gut bug as long as you do not cook it.

There are a bazillion posts about how it works on the Free the Animal blog. It solves constipation and decreases appetite (this is noticable in my opinion). I think I need some probiotics as well.

I do recall reading that traditional cultures that are fairly absent in carbs like the Inuit feed their gut bacteria by fermenting their food. We low carbers are not really paying enough attention to gut health, and I think this is what is getting in the way of long-term success.

I hope.

Also check out Hunt Gather Love blog: Short Chain Fatty Acids and Low Carb.

Very informative!
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Old 02-07-2014, 01:22 PM   #5
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Rivergirl - hang in there. I lose only 15-20 pounds max per year and have gone backwards some years. I can't understand how people just drop pounds and pounds week after week, month after month. I am perplexed. Most days since 2005, when I get on the scale, I see nothing. Success comes from just plain staying with it, no matter what.

If I had given up, I would probably be 350 pounds by now, seriously. I lost all this weight in my 40s, and I am staring down turning 50 (I turned 49 today). I just know there are more answers and strategies I have not yet implemented. I'm going to leave no stone unturned.

(Shakes fist vigorously) never give up!!!!!!!!!

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Old 02-07-2014, 01:51 PM   #6
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you go, girl!

I'm heading for 45 Years of age and 5'8" in height. So impressed with your stats!

Those tips are really helpful. I've been considering probiotic yoghurt, or yoghurt drinks. Didn't know about the uncooked potato starch. That's really interesting!

Thanks for the strong words. Hanging on like a good 'un!

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Last edited by Rivergirl; 02-07-2014 at 01:55 PM.. Reason: Missed response to previous post
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Old 02-08-2014, 02:58 AM   #7
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Thanks Rivergirl!
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Old 02-08-2014, 03:08 AM   #8
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OK, I finally caught something on weight loss. Take a look at 17:00 in this Phinney video.

Volek took a group of people with metabolic syndrome and compared high carb/low fat vs. ketogenic diet.

Look at the ratios for ketogenic designed for weight loss. I heard it in the first video, and this seems to confirm it - weight loss entails eating a lower fat percentage, and maintenance involves eating more fat. I have seen a lot of posts about pushing up the fat percentage, and I have been trying to get it higher, as high as 80%, and now I am thinking this is misguided. I think this is very telling. Fat needs to be lower until we get to maintenance.

Here are the figures from the slide.

Protein 28%
Carb 13%
Fat 59%
Calories:1510

OK, so this is obviously:

Protein 105 grams
Carbs 49 grams
Fat 98 grams

Here is the video:

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Old 02-08-2014, 07:54 AM   #9
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Good video! Thanks for sharing it!

All these individual variables sure do make it more difficult to figure out exactly what to do! So much for all those cookie cutter nutrition plans!

While I am curious about my carbohydrate tolerance level, I find it is not necessary for me to know it at this point. My carbs currently come only from things like LC vegetables, nuts, and seeds. I do not have a limit on veggies but I find my carb level stays low without any effort. On the occasions that total carbs are over 20 the net carbs, minus fiber, is still very low.

I've lost well eating small amounts of berries and a few other fruits in the past but chemical-free, non-GMO fruit is expensive. I don't miss it so I'm not going to bother adding it now. Maybe when I am trying to maintain I will want to eat more healthy carbs but I am not sure I will want to add many starchy foods back in.

I would like to know my insulin level but I know better than to request that my doctor test it. That is beyond his limited knowledge. lol...

I would like Steve's recipe for broth. I'd also like to know how he manages to keep a ton of it made to eat a few cups per day. I can't eat that many chickens!

My sodium level is at the bottom of the normal range. I'm not sure if it is causing any negative side effects or not at that level. I have not found any info about that. I don't get cramps & have never had constipation problems, no matter what kind of nutrition I've followed. I count myself lucky in that.
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Old 02-08-2014, 08:55 AM   #10
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Very interesting video. Thank you.
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Old 02-08-2014, 11:11 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiamondDeb View Post
Good video! Thanks for sharing it!

All these individual variables sure do make it more difficult to figure out exactly what to do!

While I am curious about my carbohydrate tolerance level, I find it is not necessary for me to know it at this point. My carbs currently come only from things like LC vegetables, nuts, and seeds. I do not have a limit on veggies but I find my carb level stays low without any effort. On the occasions that total carbs are over 20 the net carbs, minus fiber, is still very low.
I completely agree!
For me, I need to keep it simple, keep it do-able, and keep it satisfying.

Could I be eating more veggies and fruit? Sure. But I'm not going to obsess over "the perfect lc diet" because I've found what seems to be working. I seem to be losing weight and inches simply by figuring out my macros and sticking to the plan for a while to see how it works out. When I really, truly followed the macros and got adequate sodium, I got a second "whoosh" of weight loss.
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Old 02-09-2014, 03:53 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Key Tones View Post
Fat needs to be lower until we get to maintenance.
Awesome, Key Tones. You. Are. A. Star! I've been struggling to work out where the balance is between burning dietary fat (possibly = maintain weight) vs. burning stored fat (possibly = >weightloss). This is really helpful.

Great video, too. It really helps understanding to see and hear the background science, as well as reading it.

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Old 02-09-2014, 05:59 AM   #13
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Hi there

Looking forward to coming back and reading/watching the videos.
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Old 02-09-2014, 10:23 AM   #14
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Old 02-09-2014, 11:42 AM   #15
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Eliza Jazz--Hi!!! Good to see you, lady!

Rivergirl - thanks!!

All - thank you for your support.
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Old 02-09-2014, 11:58 AM   #16
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Key Tones, You have shared a TON of great information here and I'm thankful and reading it all again and taking notes, watching all the videos too.

Yes, most of it we all know. But you've addressed so many IMPORTANT components in an easily understood way and also brought up a few that I've never really considered. Love it. Thank you.

I am interested in HIIT. Never thought I would say that. I hate to exercise struggle with it more than with food now. I know it my head how important it is to move every day. And how really important it is as you get older. I know so many older people with mobility problems because they didn't take better care of themselves when they were younger. I'm aware of it and working on heading down a healthier path.



BTW I wish I lived a little closer. I would love to have the help of someone like Dr Naiman while I am figuring all this out.

I chuckle when I read your age. Only because I am 60 and still trying to figure this all out. I have made considerable progress. Let's say I'm half way there. I hate that food, especially thinking about it so much, takes such a big part of my life. I envy people who thinks of food as an after thought. When I go a few hours without thinking about food, I'm sure to give myself a pat on the back.
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Old 02-09-2014, 01:54 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Key Tones View Post
Here are the figures from the slide.

Protein 28%
Carb 13%
Fat 59%
Calories:1510

OK, so this is obviously:

Protein 105 grams
Carbs 49 grams
Fat 98 grams
Very interesting. I always looked at that 80 percent and thought I would have a hard time eating that much. 60 sounds a lot better. I need to find a good calculator to keep track of all this. I'm not good at recording to the T what I'm eating but for a couple weeks I will make the effort. I really have a hunch that if I keep to these number I will see the scale move, and more importantly feel a lot better.

Thanks again, Keytones.
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Old 02-09-2014, 03:52 PM   #18
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Any time I have done LCHF nutrition, I find I naturally end up with about 60-65% fat. That is where I am satisfied.

I have tried higher fat & a bit lower protein with the same calories but it makes me hungry. Even higher calories increasing fat only makes me feel like eating more.
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Old 02-10-2014, 09:08 AM   #19
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Well, I just drank a glass of water with a tbls of potato starch.

I followed your links to the info on resistant starch. Very interesting reading. I put a package of Bob's potato starch in my Amazon cart (I do that when I am considering something, I often take it back out later or forget why it is there), but then I was in Walmart of all places and there it was, right on the shelf, for about a third of the price. It was meant to be I guess.

People said it made them gassy in the beginning so I figured I would start with a small dose on a day I don't have to go to work.

I think I am missing some key component to weight loss and good health. If all was right, my eating and exercise should be resulting in losses, but it isn't. I could lower everything more and try some extreme measures (and I have in the past) but the weight will just come back like it has before.

Gut health seems like something worth looking into for me because I have an autoimmune thyroid problem and an igg allergy panel showed me reactive to a TON of things.
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Old 02-10-2014, 09:39 AM   #20
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Gina, yes, I am hoping that the resistant starch is the key this time around as well! I blew it off the first few times I heard about it. I just didn't get it.

Let me know how it goes!

Wow, I will check Wal-mart. I didn't know they stock it! We have just a teeny store near us, but who knows, they might have it. I have to drive by it once per week anyway.

I definitely heard that the Amazon vendor jacked the price up when the potato starch turned into all the rage on Free the Animal.
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Old 02-10-2014, 09:45 AM   #21
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I found it at a giant SuperWalmart in the baking isle with the "alternative" flours. A small WM may not have it, but it is certainly worth a look.

It has been 1.5 hours since I drank it on an empty stomach with no signs of "distress" yet.
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Old 02-10-2014, 11:38 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MerryKate View Post
Thanks for posting this. I found his statemetns about eating a lot of vegetables and some fruits to be interesting. There's been a theme on the NK threads here to get carbs as low as possible, and while it's well-intentioned, I'm afraid some of us (definitely me) have come to think of veggies and fruit as BAD. After developing some digestive problems, I'm going back to a very basic low-carb diet, NK-style (keeping the protein moderate). I hope the added veggies and occasional berries will cure what ails me.
Many of my meals are just a low carb veggie with fat.... green beans with almonds cooked in bacon grease and maybe some chopped bacon, a squash cut on the spiral slicer with garlic butter and parmesan (or garlic alfredo sauce, 90% fat), or a salad with home made ranch or blue cheese. Otherwise it's too easy to go over on protein. Fat bombs just don't satisfy the way a serving of LC veggies with fatty sauces or dressings does; at least for me.
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