Low Carb Friends  
Netrition.com - Tools - Reviews - Faces - Recipes - Home


Go Back   Low Carb Friends > Eating and Exercise Plans > Weight Loss Plans > Nutritional Ketosis / High Fat, Low Carb
Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-31-2014, 04:32 AM   #1
Senior LCF Member
 
unna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Germany
Posts: 293
Gallery: unna
Stats: 230/155-160/tone
WOE: Primal LCHF
Start Date: January 2012
Self-transformation

I'm posting this information here because I find that the people in this forum are a bit different - dieters at the REAL end of their rope.

Despite the fact that I have a high personal interest in the evolutionary perspective (I have published papers in this area), I feel that we are too fixated on it at this point. We continually ask ourselves, "What would early man have ate", "How would he have moved", because we believe we are zoo animals - insofar as we believe our superficial environment is making us sick and fat. Our proof is: just compare the fat ape at the zoo with the tone ape in the wild.

Maybe this is true, maybe its not. That is not my point here. My point is that their are other ideas, cultural ideas, which underlie the "paleo" movement and are heavily influencing it. I think we need to be aware of the power of these ideas and whether or not they hold truth.

The idea that I believe is very dominant is "self-transformation". We believe that if we find our perfect diet and exercise plan, we will transform back into the svelte wild animal we were supposed to be, despite our zoo-like surroundings.

Regarding bodily "self-transformation", in The Metamorphoses of Fat, Vigarello finds in his cultural survey that this idea only took hold after the 1920s. He writes, "The body comes to be judged as somehow more malleable and flexible in analogy to the universe of contemporary technological innovation, which has itself come to be inundated by machines that are surgically designed and appended with computerized supplements" (193).

In other words, this is the first time we have come to see our body as a machine which functions according to our will. It therefore becomes a "weakness of the will" if we are unable to transform our body into one that is "long and lanky". At no other time in history did we believe we had so much control over our body’s appearance.

But one must also keep in mind that the "elongated, thin body", according to Vigarello, only became popular in the 1920's, symbolizing the female attempt to become more male, participating in the public realm - possessing agility and movement. Before the 1920's, the corset was fashionable and accentuated the woman's curves. And I have seen accurate scientific re-creations of Neanderthal women, and they were at least 25% body fat (we know that most of us have probably inherited up to 5% of our genes from the Neanderthals). I believe the official BMI chart states that anything over 27% is “overweight”.

My strong belief is that we need to stop treating our bodies like machines. We have to admit that we do not always have actual control to transform our bodies (especially permanently). This belief also makes me cringe when I consider the Crossfit community, who believe that they can treat their body like a mere machine and work it into the ground if they choose - only to get good effects (I say this while being a member!).

Some of us may have to completely abandon the project of "self-transformation", which is usually present in the form of having a "goal weight". I think we should have short and long-term goals in life, but I believe goal weights are highly ineffective because we cannot control whether we achieve this or not.

Most importantly, even if we are not able to transform our body into 20% or less body fat, we need to stop judging ourselves and others for this as personal failures. In my personal experience, I have "transformed" myself into 140 lbs through starvation when I was young, but this was in no way sustainable or healthy. I believe I weighed 190 the following year. And I believe that if I were to starve myself again, I would never get down to that weight, as my body has become all the wiser due to my treacherous history of yo-yo dieting.

The pathologist Charles-Joseph Bouchard noted in 1882 that "a healthy person can overconsume fat without becoming polysarcous" while another person can get fat without any exaggerated consumption. Despite the numerous studies done to disprove this, I am not convinced. I believe Bouchard's idea is still true today.

Whether we are part of the paleo crowd or some other crowd, we need to stop promoting the idea of self-transformation. We need to stop telling people to cut foods, cut calories, cut carbs, giving them hope that they can transform "if they work hard enough". Let's stop the false hope. We are overwhelmed with “before and after photos”. These photos simply do not tell the whole story; they do not tell us about the long-term future, Will that person maintain their new weight?

I'm not trying to crush anyone's supermodel dreams, but I believe that we should be realistic. Under the *paleo* imaginary (any evolutionary-based diet), we are supposed to all be beautiful, lean, wild animals. And if we follow the diet, we will be able to return to our original state. This simply is not true for the majority, not even the Neanderthals.

While an evolutionary-based diet will probably lead to better overall health, this does not mean that it will suddenly allow our body to access years and years of accumulated fat. Health simply needs to be divorced from the "lean" wild animal.

The idea that we have the control to transform our body's appearance (long-term) is a relatively new cultural idea, of which we do not know its nuances. It only serves to give us stress and anxiety.
unna is offline   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old 01-31-2014, 05:57 AM   #2
Blabbermouth!!!
 
Mimosa23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Germany
Posts: 7,243
Gallery: Mimosa23
Stats: 227.2/185.5/160
WOE: Keto
Unna, thank you for this very interesting and thought provoking post.

I have nothing to add, just letting you know you have made me think about a few things!
Mimosa23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2014, 07:13 AM   #3
Senior LCF Member
 
unna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Germany
Posts: 293
Gallery: unna
Stats: 230/155-160/tone
WOE: Primal LCHF
Start Date: January 2012
Thanks Mimosa. Thanks for reading.

I think I'm going to rework the post and try to publish it on one of the "big" paleo blogs for women that I really enjoy. I guess I'm trying it out on you guys first, so feel free to critique. If I publish it on the blog, I'll need the post to be more optimistic at the end....

I mean, if you are just starting out on the Paleo diet, you have big hopes and dreams that it will cure all your weight problems, you don't want to read my post.... and paleo may work for some, just not for all - no matter how "well" you do it. People need to stop thinking that they are failures because they cannot "self-transform".
unna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2014, 07:25 AM   #4
Senior LCF Member
 
kwerp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 660
Gallery: kwerp
Stats: 146/133/120
WOE: JUDDD
I get what you're saying, I do.
But....

I think people need hope. And I think self transformation can take many different forms. It doesn't just have to be what's on the outside.

Our current world is overwhelmed with everything being packaged, compartmentalized, digitized - I think reigning that in is quite appealing to many, even those who shun the "all natural/ hippie-esque" ways of life.

I think more to the point is an appreciation of time. If you spend 10+ years treating your body as a skip, hoping to undo the damage in a year is, IMO, unreasonable. Our society is such a goal-driven one, and we're used to instant results, instant information, now, now, now.

I think it's wrong to take away people's hope of transformation, but I do think it's appropriate to emphasize the important of patience and self-compassion.

Just my 2p.
kwerp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2014, 01:47 PM   #5
Very Gabby LCF Member!!!
 
SlowSure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: London/Herts UK
Posts: 3,948
Gallery: SlowSure
Stats: 157/105/105-110
WOE: JUDDD Maintenance.
Start Date: 2011
Unna, that is a well-crafted thought piece. I'm going to think about its themes for a day or so and hope to make a more useful contribution in response.

It's never really been in vogue but I think the notion of Allostasis and Allostatic Load has a lot to offer as a valuable way of thinking about health and balancing competing stresses and stressors in individual and social lives. (I can't see any advertising on the site but to be on the safe side, searching with the terms:
Allostatic Load and Allostasis
Bruce McEwen and Teresa Seeman
should return a good overview of the topic. The wikipedia account of Allostasis is reasonable and quotes Sapolsky, below.)

Robert Sapolsky:Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers:
Quote:
Homeostasis is the regulation of the body to a balance, by single point tuning such as blood oxygen level, blood glucose or blood pH. For example, if a person walking in the desert is hot, the body will sweat and they will quickly become dehydrated. Allostasis is adaptation but in regard to a more dynamic balance. In dehydration, sweat occurs as only a small part of the process with many other systems also adapting their functioning, both to reduce water use and to support the variety of other systems that are changing to aid this. In this case, kidneys may reduce urine output, mucous membrane in the mouth, nose and eyes may dry out; urine and sweat output will decrease; the release of arginine vasopressin (AVP) will increase; and veins and arteries will constrict to maintain blood pressure with a smaller blood volume.
We all know it isn't, but we sometimes talk as if losing body fat is a formulaic activity rather than the multi-factor phenomenon that it is and thinking about allostatic load reminds me of that. If somebody is stressed at work and home, then mentally and emotionally, exercising may be good for them, but it doesn't necessarily follow that it isn't an added physical stress if you're also stressing your body by reducing calories. (IYSWIM)

I find the notion of unrealistic goals for self-transformation to be intriguing. It's a somewhat unsettling re-working of the Pygmalion story with self as the malleable material/ Galatea and the demanding sculptor with an ideal in mind and no thought for the reality of being Galatea.
__________________
Motto: SINS - Simple Is the New Sustainable

Dec 2014 A DXA scan reported very low muscle mass (sarcopenia) so I'm still thinking about how to cope with that. I have some joint surgery to schedule. I may miss questions that people ask me or personals. Apologies if I do, it's not intentional.
SlowSure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2014, 01:31 AM   #6
Senior LCF Member
 
unna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Germany
Posts: 293
Gallery: unna
Stats: 230/155-160/tone
WOE: Primal LCHF
Start Date: January 2012
kwerp: Thank you for responding! I also think hope is important. But I think that if hope is tied to an illusion, it can be very dangerous and harmful.

When I rewrite this piece, I need to make clear that I am not talking about weight loss in general. It would be silly for me to say that I don't believe people can lose weight and keep it off, because I myself have lost a good amount of weight and maintained it for years.

My point is: In all those years, I never reached my "goal weight" or "ideal". More specifically, I reached my goal weight once and the weight came back with a vengeance the next year.

So, I could keep trying to transform myself into my ideal, which includes endless tweakings and maybe even being uncomfortable, malnourished, or prone to illness, OR I could stop trying to control my body like it is a machine and be happy about what it does do for me and how it looks right now. You would be surprised at the number of women that live their whole life in the pursuit of a self-transformation that will never happen.

If you believe you have control over your body to shape it like you want, you will also believe you are a failure or have a "weak will" when this shaping does not occur. I find it is healthy to shift your mentality. We, especially as women, need to believe in our own intelligence. If we are eating a diet that suits our body, providing for its needs, and we aren't losing weight anymore, it will probably be a better idea health-wise to decide that our body is best right where it is - even if it is still not a 'normal' weight on the BMI chart (the cultural history of the BMI chart is also super interesting - another post worth writing).

Anyway, I am no expert and am still developing my thoughts on the matter. I simply am not satisfied with the information I am obtaining about "weight" and "health" from online sources (which includes the scientific community).

Last edited by unna; 02-01-2014 at 01:44 AM..
unna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2014, 01:55 AM   #7
Senior LCF Member
 
unna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Germany
Posts: 293
Gallery: unna
Stats: 230/155-160/tone
WOE: Primal LCHF
Start Date: January 2012
SlowSure: the notion of Allostasis and Allostatic Load is very intriguing! I just read part of an article by McEwan from "Nature", and it is something I want to continue to learn about. It may be time for you to write a thought-provoking post about this topic. I would like to know more specifically how you are thinking about it in terms of being overweight later in life (and draw out the idea of weight loss as non-formulaic).

And an interesting reference to Pygmalion and Galatea.... the reality of being our ideal may be quite evil.
unna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2014, 01:59 AM   #8
Senior LCF Member
 
unna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Germany
Posts: 293
Gallery: unna
Stats: 230/155-160/tone
WOE: Primal LCHF
Start Date: January 2012
Another aspect in the background of my thoughts involves the discourse amongst personal trainers. They discuss if it is possible to be a good personal trainer, even if one does not "look" the part.

These are people that are active ALL day and eat very well. Most of them are still falling short of the cultural ideal of an elongated, tone form. They don't feel worthy to even be personal trainers, despite their knowledge of how the human body moves. They feel like failures.

Something is wrong here.
unna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2014, 02:07 AM   #9
Senior LCF Member
 
kwerp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 660
Gallery: kwerp
Stats: 146/133/120
WOE: JUDDD
Quote:
Originally Posted by unna View Post
kwerp: Thank you for responding! I also think hope is important. But I think that if hope is tied to an illusion, it can be very dangerous and harmful.

When I rewrite this piece, I need to make clear that I am not talking about weight loss in general. It would be silly for me to say that I don't believe people can lose weight and keep it off, because I myself have lost a good amount of weight and maintained it for years.

My point is: In all those years, I never reached my "goal weight" or "ideal". More specifically, I reached my goal weight once and the weight came back with a vengeance the next year.

So, I could keep trying to transform myself into my ideal, which includes endless tweakings and maybe even being uncomfortable, malnourished, or prone to illness, OR I could stop trying to control my body like it is a machine and be happy about what it does do for me and how it looks right now. You would be surprised at the number of women that live their whole life in the pursuit of a self-transformation that will never happen.

If you believe you have control over your body to shape it like you want, you will also believe you are a failure or have a "weak will" when this shaping does not occur. I find it is healthy to shift your mentality. We, especially as women, need to believe in our own intelligence. If we are eating a diet that suits our body, providing for its needs, and we aren't losing weight anymore, it will probably be a better idea health-wise to decide that our body is best right where it is - even if it is still not a 'normal' weight on the BMI chart (the cultural history of the BMI chart is also super interesting - another post worth writing).

Anyway, I am no expert and am still developing my thoughts on the matter. I simply am not satisfied with the information I am obtaining about "weight" and "health" from online sources (which includes the scientific community).
I had figured this was what you were talking about in your original post, which is why I got it. However, the language you used was evasive of the concept you very clearly and eloquently illustrated above.
kwerp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2014, 04:10 AM   #10
Very Gabby LCF Member!!!
 
SlowSure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: London/Herts UK
Posts: 3,948
Gallery: SlowSure
Stats: 157/105/105-110
WOE: JUDDD Maintenance.
Start Date: 2011
It will be obvious from the following that allostatis is something that I'm still thinking through.

The rhetoric about obesity in public media tends to emphasise the role of personal responsibility with rare lip-service to the attendant difficulties of living in in obeseogenic environments and with chaotic work hours or circumstances that mitigate against the sort of planning and commitment that makes it easier to live a healthy/active lifestyle with predictable sleep times and the freedom to engage in family/community activities.

I can't find an online source for it as the original sites seem to have lapsed but Dr Salt summarised some of the classic papers in allostasis:
Quote:
[stress has] many mechanisms, but among the most prominent are the manifestations of physiological stress responses as a result of living and working conditions, inter-personal conflict, as well as the sense of control of one’s environment and optimism/pessimism toward the future. "Allostatic load" refers to the cost of adaptation to a stressful environment, which elicits repeated and sometimes prolonged adaptive responses ("allostasis") that preserve homeostasis in the short run but can cause wear- and-tear on the body and brain...We have powerful ways of modulating the harmful output of the stress response systems that include belief systems and behaviors. An important quote attributed to Dr. McEwen is, "We must also remember that the biggest problems for the human race in the future are those associated with our own behavior and misbehavior and the impact of the social and physical environment on our bodies and brains."
I sometimes wonder if the raging controversies about the relative contributions of various hormones to obesity somewhat skimps over the issues of the environmental/allostasis stressors to which those hormone shifts (and overweight->obesity) may be one response.

A remarkable set of data obtained from a study of a family with diabetic children who manifested uncontrolled ketoacidosis prompted Salvador Minuchin to remark that "behavioral events among family members can be measured in the bloodstream of other family members". Effectively, watching parents row or be distressed was physiologically perturbing enough to nudge a child into ketoacidosis although the child had neither eaten nor exercised in a way that would theoretically have produced that state.
Quote:
The influence of the family on its members was demonstrated experimentally by an investigation of childhood psychosomatic illness being conducted by myself, Lester Baker, and our team. The research findings provided experimental grounding for the basic tenet of family therapy, namely, that the child responds to stresses affecting the family. We developed a method of measuring individual physiological responses to family stress. During a structured family interview designed for this purpose, blood samples are drawn from each family member in such a way that obtaining the samples does not interfere with ongoing interactions. The level of plasma-free fatty acids in the samples is later analyzed. Free fatty acid (FFA) is a biochemical indicator of emotional arousal—the concentration rises within five to fifteen minutes of emotional stress. By comparing the FFA levels at different times during the structured interview, the individual's response to family stress can be physiologically documented.

The FFA results of the Collins family are a good example .... Both children were diabetics. Dede, 17, had had diabetes for three years; her sister Violet, 12, had been diabetic since infancy. Studies of the children's "physiological lability" showed that there was no obvious difference in their individual responsivity to stress. Yet these two children, with the same metabolic defect, having much of the same genetic endowment, and living in the same household with the same parents, presented very different clinical problems. Dede was a "superlabile diabetic"; that is, her diabetes was affected by psychosomatic problems. She was subject to bouts of ketoacidosis that did not respond to insulin administered at home. In three years, she had been admitted to the hospital for emergency treatment twenty-three times. Violet had some behavioral problems that her parents complained of, but her diabetes was under good medical control.

During the interview designed to measure the children's response to stress, lasting from 9 to 10 A.M., the parents were subjected to two different stress conditions, while the children watched them through a one-way mirror. Although the children could not take part in the conflict situation, their FFA levels rose as they observed their stressed parents. The cumulative impact of current psychological stress was powerful enough to cause marked physiological changes even in children not directly involved. At 10 o'clock the children were brought into the room with their parents. It then became clear that they played very different roles in this family. Dede was trapped between her parents. Each parent tried to get her support in the fight with the other parent, so that Dede could not respond to one parent's demands without seeming to side against the other. Violet's allegiance was not sought. She could therefore react to her parents' conflict without being caught in the middle.

The effects of these two roles can be seen in the FFA results. Both children showed significant increments during the interview, between 9 and 10, and even higher increments between 10 and 10:30, when they were with their parents. After the end of the interview at 10:30, however, Violet's FFA returned to baseline promptly. Dede's remained elevated for the next hour and a half.

In both spouses, the FFA levels increased from 9:30 to 10, indicating stress in the interspouse transactions. But their FFA decreased after the children had come in to the room and the spouses had assumed parental functions. In this family, interspouse conflict was reduced or detoured when the spouses assumed parental functions. The children functioned as conflict-detouring mechanisms. The price they paid is shown by both the increase in their FFA levels and Dede's inability to return to baseline. The interdependence between the individual and his family—the flow between "inside" and "outside"—is poignantly demonstrated in the experimental situation, in which behavioral events among family members can be measured in the bloodstream of other family members. [Minuchin, Salvador. Families and Family Therapy. HUP. 1974].
I sometimes speculate that many people are living some uncomfortable lives, responding to environmental complexities, families, what's happening in the wider economic world that might be adding stress etc. - it might not be that far-fetched to assume that if we regard ourselves as part of the open system of our perceived/experienced world rather than the closed system that only accounts for personal responsibility, then there are sometimes poignant examples of allostasis and allostatic load.
As per the Salt quotation above, it is frequently said that we have to accept that medicine can not save us from the consequences of our lifestyle choices. However, I'm not sure that it's always possible for the individual to save him/herself from the consequences of the environment created by events in international politics/the global economy/family members plunged into financial uncertainty through redundancy etc.

Obesity and various lifestyle illnesses may not be that surprising if viewed through the lens of allostasis and accommodating environments (built; family; local; regional; national; global economic) over which we have little control but for which we have to compensate.

How much rational self-transformation can individuals achieve if they continue to live in what feels like conflict with antagonistic environments?

Last edited by SlowSure; 02-02-2014 at 04:15 AM..
SlowSure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2014, 11:02 AM   #11
GME
Way too much time on my hands!
 
GME's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: CA Coast
Posts: 10,129
Gallery: GME
Stats: 250/166/175 Trying again...223/199/146 5'7
WOE: JUDDD/LC/Gluten Free
Start Date: April 2000 (the first time)
Very interesting. Here in the US, there is a much higher incidence of both adult and child obesity among the poor. At the same time we hear figures like 1 in 3 children go to bed hungry.

I have always attributed those conflicting facts to the nutritional deficiency of "convenience" foods, but maybe the stress of living a life where you don't know from month to month if there will be enough money for food or rent, or if a family member will wind up in jail, or a car will be repossessed so mom can't go to work, takes its toll too. I am always surprised how much poor kids know about their parents' struggles.
__________________
Gina

7/27/14- Wharf to Wharf (6 miles)- I won! 9/14/14- Title 9K- I won! 11/9/14- Surfer's Path 10K- I won! 12/7/14- Jinglebell Rock 5K- I won!
2/7/15 - Together Love Run 5K, 3/22/15- She is Beautiful 10K, 4/12/15- Santa Cruz Half Marathon

*My definition of win: I didn't quit, didn't throw up, and they didn't close the course on me.
GME is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2014, 11:53 PM   #12
Senior LCF Member
 
unna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Germany
Posts: 293
Gallery: unna
Stats: 230/155-160/tone
WOE: Primal LCHF
Start Date: January 2012
SlowSure: Very interesting. I have many comments! First, are you able to expand on the following:

"We have powerful ways of modulating the harmful output of the stress response systems that include belief systems and behaviors."

More specifically, What are examples of the belief systems and behaviors?
unna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2014, 12:00 AM   #13
Senior LCF Member
 
unna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Germany
Posts: 293
Gallery: unna
Stats: 230/155-160/tone
WOE: Primal LCHF
Start Date: January 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowSure View Post

I sometimes speculate that many people are living some uncomfortable lives, responding to environmental complexities, families, what's happening in the wider economic world that might be adding stress etc. - it might not be that far-fetched to assume that if we regard ourselves as part of the open system of our perceived/experienced world rather than the closed system that only accounts for personal responsibility, then there are sometimes poignant examples of allostasis and allostatic load.
This is interesting from a historical perspective. The poor used to be very thin and would use this fact against the bourgeoisie - to show them that their behavior was gluttonous and immoral.
unna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2014, 01:17 PM   #14
Very Gabby LCF Member!!!
 
SlowSure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: London/Herts UK
Posts: 3,948
Gallery: SlowSure
Stats: 157/105/105-110
WOE: JUDDD Maintenance.
Start Date: 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by unna View Post
First, are you able to expand on the following:

"We have powerful ways of modulating the harmful output of the stress response systems that include belief systems and behaviors."

More specifically, What are examples of the belief systems and behaviors?
Just to say that I have seen this and will return/respond - I need an early night tonight, however, and I appear to have lost the answer that I was working on.

So, in the interim, there's a lengthy but good discussion of McEwen's ideas (which are relevant to this) in Biobehavioural Factors in Health and Disease. It also mentions the work of Kiecolt-Glaser which I find intriguing.
Quote:
One important factor in whether a person will develop respiratory infection after challenge with an infectious virus is lack of social support (Cohen, 1995; Cohen et al., 1991). In studies of two-party relationships, marital discord was found to affect general health and immunity significantly (Kiecolt-Glaser et al., 1997)...

Major effects of distress of natural disasters include alterations in natural and adaptive immunity, as indicated by lower natural killer-cell cytotoxicity (NKCC) and lower numbers of circulating T lymphocytes. People who were tested after surviving Hurricane Andrew had lower NKCC and fewer suppressor T cells (CD8+) and helper T cells (CD4+) than did comparison subjects (Ironson et al., 1997). Alterations in NKCC were related to psychologic and behavioral factors: Survivors reported greater loss of resources, greater post traumatic disorder symptomology, and more negative intrusive thoughts than did control subjects. Those observations are consistent with conclusions drawn from a growing literature on psychologic stressors and immunity, which has shown NKCC to be diminished by bereavement (Irwin et al., 1987), marital discord (Kiecolt-Glaser et al., 1987), and exposure to earthquakes (Solomon et al., 1997)...

People live in social groups and as members of societies. It is well known that social class or socioeconomic position has a profound effect on health through multiple pathways (Adler et al., 1994; Antonovsky, 1967; Marmot et al., 1991; Syme and Berkman, 1976). Since the 1982 predecessor to this report (IOM, 1982), it has become evident that the degree of a given country's social inequality is related to health in that society (Kaplan et al., 1996; Wilkinson, 1992). And the degree of social integration or connection and the social networks in which people are embedded are related to morbidity and mortality (Berkman, 1995; House et al., 1988). Like economic inequality, social cohesion and social capital are associated with health (Kawachi et al., 1997). Moreover, there are characteristics of the work environment that can produce job stress and significantly influence workers' health (Karasek and Theorell, 1990).
SlowSure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2014, 12:59 AM   #15
Senior LCF Member
 
unna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Germany
Posts: 293
Gallery: unna
Stats: 230/155-160/tone
WOE: Primal LCHF
Start Date: January 2012
It is a shame you lost your original post. The information you posted is really interesting and puts stress in a WHOLE new light for me.... and I am still looking forward to reading about how you see this as working with obesity in particular.

Social cohesion is really difficult, I find .... First, a society focused on capitalism promotes individualism, which often leads to isolation. Secondly, we have to constantly move to find work nowadays - I even had to move to another country to do this effectively.

I still do not feel like I have social support in Germany. The culture here is similar to America, but not identical... so I often don't fully "fit in" with the locals.

Anyway, I think I have been underestimating these stressors for awhile now.
unna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2014, 05:05 PM   #16
Big Yapper!!!!
 
Librarygirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 9,166
Gallery: Librarygirl
Stats: HW 207/(JUDDD) 198/CW 172/GW 150 5'4 49 yo
WOE: JUDDD
Start Date: Low calorie 6/12 ; Low carb 9/12/ ; JUDDD 11/13/12
Quote:
Originally Posted by unna View Post
kwerp: Thank you for responding! I also think hope is important. But I think that if hope is tied to an illusion, it can be very dangerous and harmful.

When I rewrite this piece, I need to make clear that I am not talking about weight loss in general. It would be silly for me to say that I don't believe people can lose weight and keep it off, because I myself have lost a good amount of weight and maintained it for years.

My point is: In all those years, I never reached my "goal weight" or "ideal". More specifically, I reached my goal weight once and the weight came back with a vengeance the next year.

So, I could keep trying to transform myself into my ideal, which includes endless tweakings and maybe even being uncomfortable, malnourished, or prone to illness, OR I could stop trying to control my body like it is a machine and be happy about what it does do for me and how it looks right now. You would be surprised at the number of women that live their whole life in the pursuit of a self-transformation that will never happen.

If you believe you have control over your body to shape it like you want, you will also believe you are a failure or have a "weak will" when this shaping does not occur. I find it is healthy to shift your mentality. We, especially as women, need to believe in our own intelligence. If we are eating a diet that suits our body, providing for its needs, and we aren't losing weight anymore, it will probably be a better idea health-wise to decide that our body is best right where it is - even if it is still not a 'normal' weight on the BMI chart (the cultural history of the BMI chart is also super interesting - another post worth writing).

Anyway, I am no expert and am still developing my thoughts on the matter. I simply am not satisfied with the information I am obtaining about "weight" and "health" from online sources (which includes the scientific community).
Interesting thought, and a kind one, but I have to remember that I was eating a diet that I *thought* suited my body and I was not losing weight and was at least 60 lbs overweight. I had to start restricting calories with effort rather than eating "intuitively" because I had lost that ability somewhere along the way with my increasing weight. And, I have still struggled to go further in weight loss, but I don't believe this is the "right" weight for me, and I think it will benefit me in many ways for me to continue to strive for weight loss.
__________________


"Never give up on a dream just because of the length of time it will take to accomplish it. The time will pass anyway."


"In every triumph there is a lot of try."

"Have the courage of your desire."
*Cindy*
Librarygirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:07 AM.


Copyright ©1999-2014 Friends Forums LLC. All rights reserved. - Terms of Service | Privacy Policy
LowCarbFriends® is a registered mark of Friends Forums, LLC.