Low Carb Friends  
Netrition.com - Tools - Reviews - Faces - Recipes - Home


Go Back   Low Carb Friends > Eating and Exercise Plans > Weight Loss Plans > Nutritional Ketosis / High Fat, Low Carb
Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-30-2013, 01:08 AM   #1
Major LCF Poster!
 
Arctic_Mama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Alaska
Posts: 2,781
Gallery: Arctic_Mama
Stats: 257/145.8/140
WOE: Atkins 2002/Protocol
Start Date: Began losing 10/08. Working off last 20 lbs.
Help from the experts

Okay folks, I'm doing it. I'm actually switching to a more NK approach a la "The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living". I'm actually *gasp* limiting my protein grams to the appropriate range for my activity level/height/nursing status and trying to up my fat a bit.

Now to my issue - satiety.

I keep overeating my calorie target (which I just treat as a guideline because I tend to overeat without it, but satiety rules the day) by 500-700 calories. That's unacceptable, I can't lose at that volume of calories even with what I'm spending with working out and making milk. But when I eat fat in the 70-80% range I end up much munchier and genuinely hungry, it seems, on less. The actual volume of food is so comparably small and doesn't seem to stick with me like a meat meal does. And combining the fat with slightly more carbs, like buttered veggies, has it's own problems.

I'm not wedded to calories except in that I cannot lose any more weight without them. I don't see shrinkage in either physical mass nor on the scale this way, and I am adopting NK primarily as a way to lose more and maintain, too. But I'm stuck without keeping to 1800-2000 calories, and I'm not experiencing satiety with the right ratios unless I'm eating significantly more. But I can't afford to eat significantly more and still maintain, let alone lose the last bit.

So help me lose, without overeating my general neighborhood of calories it takes for me to lose anything at all. Protein is more satiating for me, maybe because of volume? But I lose best with the least insulin stimulation, so long as my overall intake isn't in fat influx territory.

__________________
Taryl - 5'2" powerhouse!
http://www.aurorafiberarts.com/weightloss

On a pregnancy break with baby #5 until January 2015
Arctic_Mama is offline   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old 12-30-2013, 01:16 AM   #2
Blabbermouth!!!
 
Ntombi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Boston, then OH, then NYC, now SoCal. Whew!
Posts: 38,398
Gallery: Ntombi
Stats: Restart: 360/284.4/190
WOE: Atkins for weight loss, NK for maintenance.
Start Date: Restarted: 1-3-13 Original: 8-23-02
What do you think your protein levels should be, and how did you reach that number? Do you test your blood ketones, or are you winging it? Do you spread your protein out, or eat it in one or two meals?

Need more info.
Ntombi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2013, 01:19 AM   #3
Senior LCF Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Australia :)
Posts: 327
Gallery: luckymuma
Stats: 96kg ( 211) start weight GOAL weight 74kg(163)
WOE: Low carb
Start Date: 01 Aug 2013
I'm not a NK expert at all, but I know as a just finished breastfeeding mum, losing weight can be tough, and my body would drive me to eat higher calories. I also found with eating low carb, while I was breastfeeding, higher protein didn't bother me as much as it does now I've stopped nursing, as in I never noticed any adverse effects. Finally with NK, it took me a while for my system to adapt to the new way of eating, just like it did when I went low carb initially. Finally, I'm not at a point of monitoring calories strictly, but I KnOW I need less now I've stopped nursing than when I was nursing...and my baby was three when we stopped...so not a tiny all the time feeding baby....
__________________
18.4kg ( 40.4lbs) less of me so far!
luckymuma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2013, 08:06 AM   #4
Major LCF Poster!
 
Arctic_Mama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Alaska
Posts: 2,781
Gallery: Arctic_Mama
Stats: 257/145.8/140
WOE: Atkins 2002/Protocol
Start Date: Began losing 10/08. Working off last 20 lbs.
I calculated the numbers as a percentage of my body weight vis a vis the NK formulas for an active person - I only chose that activity level because of nursing, however, and would need to drop it down after that.

I've never tested for ketones and never will, not even by urine. My goal is not a perfect range of ketosis but a sustainable state of low grade ketosis. I believe in the health benefits of it, as well as weight loss benefits, but it am not trying to do much more than tighten it up for a few months to deal with the excess. I do well with Atkins around 35-40 net carbs per day, and can do that indefinitely, but I wanted to give stricter NK and protein restriction a fair shake.

I eat three-ish meals per day and a snack, usually protein looks like three hardboiled eggs with breakfast, sardines and cheese with lunch, and then I'm stuck with hardly any for dinner (it's maddening, actually). That's most of my daily protein requirement, plus another few ounces of a muscle meat. By kilos and a 1.2 multiplier, my protein works out to 88-90 grams, when my default preference has been in the 120-140 gram range

I'm still finishing the Phinney/Volek book, I've been so busy with other things that have to be done that my reading time is very limited. But I haven't noted this being addressed in there. Maybe I'm just better suited for a higher protein plan, but that has been causing me issues with losing, too!

Last edited by Arctic_Mama; 12-30-2013 at 08:12 AM..
Arctic_Mama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2013, 08:57 AM   #5
Chatty Cathy
 
clackley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Ontario
Posts: 17,253
Gallery: clackley
Stats: 228.5/168/125
WOE: N.K.=vlc/hf/moderate protein & organic/pastured
Start Date: Restart Oct 18 2009
The point I think many miss about n.k. is that in some people, 'too much protein' can and does knock out ketosis. If you have indicators of ketosis before moderating protein, there is no reason to go that extra mile in my opinion.

Phinney and Volek are always careful to say that each person will have different needs in various macros. It is something that can take a while for some of us to work out and the testing is a key component in discovering what is what.

If blood testing (urine is not really very useful) is not possible, it is going to be more difficult to to really assess the situation and make appropriate changes. If one is only worried about a few last lbs., it might not be the right way to go.

I hope I am not sounding discouraging and really think this is the best woe for me and of course love that others have the same experience. But, there are so very many confounding factors, that some may think they have given it a good try but in reality, missed out on some vital info that was perhaps the key.

All of this to say, if you are not going to test blood ketones, be sure to track the things you can - like exact amounts of foods and their nutritional content in terms of protein/fat/ carbs. And be sure to include the other proteins found outside of the meat, fish and eggs sources. Those can really add up. And most importantly maybe is that to remember that it can take 6 wks. to become fully adapted and perhaps longer.
__________________
Cathy
Original start - Feb. 2000 180/125

"The energy content of food (calories) matters, but it is less important than the metabolic effect of food on our body." Dr. P. Attia

"dumping carbohydrates on your broken metabolism is tantamount to doing jumping jacks on two broken legs" -The Spark of Reason

“Eat animals. Mostly fat. Enjoy!
clackley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2013, 09:03 AM   #6
Major LCF Poster!
 
Arctic_Mama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Alaska
Posts: 2,781
Gallery: Arctic_Mama
Stats: 257/145.8/140
WOE: Atkins 2002/Protocol
Start Date: Began losing 10/08. Working off last 20 lbs.
Yes, I fully track my food and have for years. I posted another thread dealing with that is exactly the reason I'm trying NK - in case my protein adoration was the deciding factor causing slow to non-existent losses, and not overall energy balance. I wanted to troubleshoot that first and foremost.

Today I'm at 35 total carbs, 88 grams protein, 142 grams fat, and just shy of 1800 total calories. This would be an ideal day for me if I can avoid the evening eating and not get hungry later. As I said in the unposted thread, this may be a suck-it-up-buttercup issue, too, where I've gotten too permissive with snacking that isn't really hunger driven. So I'll be working on that today.
Arctic_Mama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2013, 09:04 AM   #7
Major LCF Poster!
 
Arctic_Mama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Alaska
Posts: 2,781
Gallery: Arctic_Mama
Stats: 257/145.8/140
WOE: Atkins 2002/Protocol
Start Date: Began losing 10/08. Working off last 20 lbs.
I wish blood testing was possible but it's a budget line item I just can't justify to my spouse. And since we're six people on a single income, and just dealt with renewing insurances and Christmas spending and a new (and unripped, yay!) couch, the strips aren't something I could spring for until February or March.
Arctic_Mama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2013, 09:35 AM   #8
Chatty Cathy
 
clackley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Ontario
Posts: 17,253
Gallery: clackley
Stats: 228.5/168/125
WOE: N.K.=vlc/hf/moderate protein & organic/pastured
Start Date: Restart Oct 18 2009
Seems like you know what you are doing! Good luck.
clackley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2013, 09:51 AM   #9
Major LCF Poster!
 
Arctic_Mama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Alaska
Posts: 2,781
Gallery: Arctic_Mama
Stats: 257/145.8/140
WOE: Atkins 2002/Protocol
Start Date: Began losing 10/08. Working off last 20 lbs.
Thanks - I'm going to give it a fair shake over the next month or so. If I'm not pregnant this cycle (testing in two days) I'll be doing an hCG round in February, as that is the *only* method I can reliably lose on, and Atkins/NK principles work great for me for maintenance. But if I'm pregnant and/or while I'm awaiting an hCG round, I have to lose about 5-10 pounds that creeped on over the fall and wouldn't easily budge, and that would put me in a more comfortable zone for maintaining or beginning my next round.

And if I'm pregnant I know what to do, but right now I'm proceeding as if I'm not. So the two pronged approach will be dealing with my overeating and figuring out whether it is truly physiological or behavioral in nature, and really working on sticking to those grams and appropriate ratios to see if the excess protein during the fall was what caused my gains, or if it was simply too much food for my body size.

SO much going on with my diet - and it's all so touchy after this much time and weight loss. I also don't have the option of taking it extremely slowly, because I'm pregnant and nursing much of the time and any gains not taken off before the next baby tend to accumulate in unpleasant ways. So that's my mess and I appreciate all the good thoughts and help as I think out loud. I can do maintenance pretty well. But losing anything takes a more extreme approach and that's where I'm stuck presently (hCG protocol, STRICT protocol, has worked so well and was brilliant for giving me a new set point I've been successful at hovering around, but I can't do it while nursing or pregnant so I have to find some alternative approach to manage fluctuations in weight during those times. That's been the genesis of me using a ketogenic diet at all).
Arctic_Mama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2013, 12:16 PM   #10
Blabbermouth!!!
 
Ntombi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Boston, then OH, then NYC, now SoCal. Whew!
Posts: 38,398
Gallery: Ntombi
Stats: Restart: 360/284.4/190
WOE: Atkins for weight loss, NK for maintenance.
Start Date: Restarted: 1-3-13 Original: 8-23-02
I only have used blood ketone testing ten times total (as in ten strips!), because they're so expensive. It's not necessary.

But I will say that me protein requirements are higher, and I seem to have a bit more leeway with it than you may, so I don't have a lot of insight into how to modify what you're eating enough that you're not suffering and hungry.

Do you find that different sources of protein offer differ levels to satiety? Like beef vs. chicken, or eggs versus flesh? I feel fuller eating my protein from red meat than seafood or poultry, and eggs can be a crapshoot.
__________________
<-- Buddy
Ntombi: 5'6˝" 40 years old
Started Atkins 8-23-02 325+
bought scale 9-7-02: 318/259.6/180?

Diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis (and other conditions) Summer 2005 after years of misdiagnoses--> food plan went out the window!
Restarted--again--January 3, 2013.
Ntombi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2013, 01:03 PM   #11
Blabbermouth!!!
 
shelby'snana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: middle of nowhere, Tx
Posts: 6,632
Gallery: shelby'snana
Stats: 173.5/ ? / 127 5'2"
WOE: low carb
Start Date: LC 7/28/2011
Didn't know you were trying for another little one ! You are a busy Momma !
shelby'snana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2013, 02:41 PM   #12
Major LCF Poster!
 
Arctic_Mama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Alaska
Posts: 2,781
Gallery: Arctic_Mama
Stats: 257/145.8/140
WOE: Atkins 2002/Protocol
Start Date: Began losing 10/08. Working off last 20 lbs.
NTombi - flesh definitely helps, like chicken and beef, or pork roasts. I eat eggs and sardines daily, and they're great, but not as satiating. They're more for the fact that I have cravings for them if I don't eat them (micronutrient requirements, I'd assume. I crave seaweed, too).

I'm going to see if cleaning it back up helps, as it occurred to me I might still be struggling with cravings from having eaten wheat and sugar last week, and being generally cocky and munching more than needed. Seems unlikely, but it's possible. So I'm watching hunger cues closely right now, and if I'm still wanting to overeating after eliminating craving/boredom/munchy eating, I may need to up my protein. Hm.

Laura - yes, it is busy, but the most rewarding thing I could do. I've never heard someone say they regret having more children, but I've heard plenty of older couples say the opposite - that they wished they'd had more when they could. At this point, additional kiddos aren't much more work, though it can be a logistical adjustment for teaching them (I have quite the elaborate, staggered homeschooling schedule, since my school aged children both need intensive instruction in phonics and math. It will be better when they're able to work more independently in a few months ).

Anyway, Holly is 9 months now and I'm definitely ready for another, but I'd like to not have a year and a half where I can't get off the last of my weight, either. It's been half a decade, I'm ready to be mostly maintaining, instead of continuing to work at a few more pounds! I maintain really well, fortunately. This fall was quite the anomaly and I can trace where the issues came about
Arctic_Mama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2013, 04:00 PM   #13
Senior LCF Member
 
CuriousCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Washington State
Posts: 65
Gallery: CuriousCat
Stats: 215/149/145-135 range or lower
WOE: LCHF under 20gms total carbs
Start Date: 11/21/13
I am a complete newbie with this but I'll give it a try with what is working for me in regards to satiety.

Let's take the 3 egg breakfast for example. Where is the fat in that meal? Outside of what is naturally in the eggs of course. I need to fry those in butter or bacon grease or take a tbs of coconut oil to get the satiety with that meal.

Once I worked (and it was work) to increase my fat intake my protein intake started coming down on it's own and I'm struggling right now to get to 1000 calories a day because I'm just not hungry.
CuriousCat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2013, 07:02 PM   #14
Major LCF Poster!
 
Arctic_Mama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Alaska
Posts: 2,781
Gallery: Arctic_Mama
Stats: 257/145.8/140
WOE: Atkins 2002/Protocol
Start Date: Began losing 10/08. Working off last 20 lbs.
I have three hardboiled eggs with a hot and iced coffee, which has a total of three tbs of heavy cream. Also, chia seed, which helps me slow down my consumption of it. Plenty of fat between the seeds and heavy cream
Arctic_Mama is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:06 AM.


Copyright ©1999-2014 Friends Forums LLC. All rights reserved. - Terms of Service | Privacy Policy
LowCarbFriends® is a registered mark of Friends Forums, LLC.