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Old 11-14-2013, 07:33 AM   #1
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Incomplete proteins

It was pointed out to me that pork rinds are an incomplete protein (thanks Dr.jlo). I have since done a bit of reading on the subject and still can't decided how to count these incomplete proteins. Vegetables are also incomplete proteins.

I wonder if anyone else has decided how to handle this when figuring out macros?
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Old 11-14-2013, 09:17 AM   #2
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Unless you are eating pork rinds and/or vegetarian sources as a majority of your protein intake, I wouldn't worry about it.
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Old 11-14-2013, 11:02 AM   #3
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Cathy, I don't know the answer to completing the proteins in pork rinds, but have wondered about the incompleteness of gelatin. I make sure I eat marrow, egg yolks, or liver, the same day, if I eat something which has beef gelatin as its protein. I use NOW brand beef gelatin.

KT might have an answer in the Kwasniewski books, as Dr. JK addresses bioavailability of proteins and fats, or perhaps someone at the Paleo forums has solved this puzzle.

If you find an answer, would you post it? It is a challenge.

I wish you success.
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Old 11-14-2013, 01:17 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clackley View Post
It was pointed out to me that pork rinds are an incomplete protein (thanks Dr.jlo). I have since done a bit of reading on the subject and still can't decided how to count these incomplete proteins. Vegetables are also incomplete proteins.

I wonder if anyone else has decided how to handle this when figuring out macros?
How can they be an incomplete protein? They are an animal protein so should be a complete protein. I don't eat them anyway, but I don't see how that could be.
Carolyn
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Old 11-14-2013, 01:25 PM   #5
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I have wondered about this as well. My package of rinds list the protein as 7 grams for 1/2 oz. serving on the nutrition label, but in parenthesis next to the protein amount is states, not a significant source of protein.
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Old 11-14-2013, 05:49 PM   #6
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Here is a link to a discussion on incomplete proteins ....

Pork Skins: Not a significant source of protein
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Old 11-15-2013, 06:02 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by lovetoknit View Post
How can they be an incomplete protein? They are an animal protein so should be a complete protein. I don't eat them anyway, but I don't see how that could be.
rCarolyn
I was thinking the same thing.
I am surprised that gelatin is an incomplete protein.I always thought animal sources are complete proteins.I was thinking of adding gelatin to my menu,esp collagen,for gut healing properties,since I have food allergies
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Old 11-15-2013, 06:17 AM   #8
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Here is a short description of incomplete protein....

Quote:
An incomplete protein is any protein that lacks one or more essential amino acids in correct proportions. These can also be referred to as partial proteins. Even if the protein contains all the essential amino acids, they must be in equal proportions in order to be considered complete. If not, the protein is considered incomplete.

Sources of Incomplete Proteins

The following foods are examples of incomplete proteins:

Grains
Nuts
Beans
Seeds
Peas
Corn
The reason I am questioning this is that I have moderated my protein and at times I use pork rinds for 'crumbs' on certain recipes. They potentially have a significant count because it takes a lot of rinds to make crumbs.

It also occurs to me that the protein I have been counting in my veg may be inaccurate as well. Some days these protein counts can account for as much as 20g. Most days, it is 10g or so. It is not insignificant for me.
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Old 11-15-2013, 06:19 AM   #9
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I still don't know how to deal with them either.
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Old 11-15-2013, 07:32 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by clackley View Post
Here is a short description of incomplete protein....

The reason I am questioning this is that I have moderated my protein and at times I use pork rinds for 'crumbs' on certain recipes. They potentially have a significant count because it takes a lot of rinds to make crumbs.

It also occurs to me that the protein I have been counting in my veg may be inaccurate as well. Some days these protein counts can account for as much as 20g. Most days, it is 10g or so. It is not insignificant for me.
Actually, even with this info I would still say not to worry about it, as long as the rest of your protein is coming from complete animal sources. Only some of the amino acids are essential, meaning we must get them from dietary sources. If you google "essential amino acids" you will get an idea of the amounts required of each. If you have a day where you are truly concerned then maybe you could supplement with an animal-based protein powder that day. At least one source I looked at said adults need to worry about getting in all essential amino acids over the course of a month. Though most sources do say daily. But there is some controversy, clearly.
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Old 11-15-2013, 08:57 AM   #11
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It is my understanding that incomplete proteins are not metabolized in the same way that complete proteins are and therefore could potentially leave one at a deficit for protein at the end of the day.
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Old 11-15-2013, 10:24 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by clackley View Post
It is my understanding that incomplete proteins are not metabolized in the same way that complete proteins are and therefore could potentially leave one at a deficit for protein at the end of the day.
I would be interested in seeing a reference for this. Biochemically speaking, I don't see how or why that would happen.
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Old 11-15-2013, 10:59 AM   #13
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Incomplete proteins are mainly plant foods that don't contain ALL of the amino acids that we need. Animal products (fish, meat, eggs) are complete proteins and contain all the necessary amino acids.

It's possible that pork skins are not considered 'complete' protein because they are only the skin and not the flesh of the animal. I don't know, but that's a guess.
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Old 11-15-2013, 11:07 AM   #14
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I would be interested in seeing a reference for this. Biochemically speaking, I don't see how or why that would happen.
It is why vegans and vegetarians need to do food combining (in order to get the complete protein profile). At least that is my understanding. Here is a Wiki explanation.

Protein combining - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Biochemistry is a mystery to me and I am attempting to identify what might be an issue or not with incomplete proteins. I am also interested in the subject in general so if I am going off in a tangent that is just wrong, please don't hesitate to set me right.
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Old 11-16-2013, 06:47 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clackley View Post
It is why vegans and vegetarians need to do food combining (in order to get the complete protein profile). At least that is my understanding. Here is a Wiki explanation.

Protein combining - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Biochemistry is a mystery to me and I am attempting to identify what might be an issue or not with incomplete proteins. I am also interested in the subject in general so if I am going off in a tangent that is just wrong, please don't hesitate to set me right.
I think there are two issues being conflated here, protein combining and protein digestion/absorption. Proteins are large moecules comprised of long chains of amino acids - the building blocks of protein. Some amino acids can be made by the human body and some can't - those are the essential amino acids. Some proteins (most notably those from vegetarian sources, but apparently also from pork skin/collagen and gelatin) are "incomplete" meaning do not contain all of the essential amino acids. So if someone, such as a vegetarian, eats a lot of thier protein from an incomplete source (like grains) they do need to get protein from a variety of sources, and that's where "protein combining" comes in, essentially eating protein from a variety of sources to make sure all essential amino acids are consumed. Most sources I have found say it is fine to eat these various proteins over the course of a day to get all the essential amino acids, though I have seen one source (and there may be others) that say for adults eating all the essential amino acids over the course of a month is fine.

The other issue which you brought up in a previous post is that of protein digestion, absoprtion, and metabolism:

Quote:
Originally Posted by clackley View Post
It is my understanding that incomplete proteins are not metabolized in the same way that complete proteins are and therefore could potentially leave one at a deficit for protein at the end of the day.
That is a different issue than protein combining, and what I was responding to in my previous post. Once the food product containing protein hits the digestive tract, the protein rather quickly gets broken down into smaller mocules of short chains of amino acids (peptides) and those get absorbed into the intestine. Once the proteins are broken down into peptides it doesn't really matter in terms of metabolism whether the original protein contained all the amino acids or not. A peptide digested from a complete protein is not guranteed to have any specific sequence of amino acids, and may in fact be made of all non-essential amino acids, and that's why I was questioning the statement that incomplete proteins are metabolized differently than complete proteins. Your body has no idea whethere the peptide came from a complete protein or incompete protein, so the metabolism of the peptides is(essentially) the same, though I would agree the chemical and physical properties of individual peptides may have some influence on exactly how they are absorbed and catabolized.
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Old 11-16-2013, 09:41 AM   #16
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Thanks Mistizoom for the explanation.
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Old 11-17-2013, 09:12 AM   #17
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The issue of incomplete proteins is important and I think there must be some reasonable answer as to how to 'account' for them and not just decide they are the same as other complete proteins.

Thank you Auntie Em for the suggestions. I have not read Dr. JK's book but really should as I constantly find references to his work. Putting on my list!

Drjlo, hope things are going well.
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Old 11-17-2013, 04:44 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clackley View Post
The issue of incomplete proteins is important and I think there must be some reasonable answer as to how to 'account' for them and not just decide they are the same as other complete proteins.

Thank you Auntie Em for the suggestions. I have not read Dr. JK's book but really should as I constantly find references to his work. Putting on my list!

Drjlo, hope things are going well.
Might be interesting to look at information aimed at vegetarians, especially vegans. Pretty much by definiton all protein sources that vegans consume are incomplete proteins.

ETA: Just read that some plant sources, like found in quinoa, are complete proteins. How bioavailable that is, I don't know.

Last edited by Mistizoom; 11-17-2013 at 04:47 PM..
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Old 11-18-2013, 08:56 AM   #19
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Thanks again Misti. I appreciate your input. I do think vegans are approaching proteins in a different way then I am.

I am wondering if counting incomplete proteins in my over all protein consumption is accurate. I wouldn't give it much thought if I were not moderating protein.
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Old 11-18-2013, 09:26 AM   #20
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Cathy, here is the analysis from Nutritiondata. I don't know if it is all right to post the link.

Protein & Amino Acids
Amounts Per Selected Serving %


Protein 8.6g 17%

Tryptophan 16.5mg
Threonine 255mg
Isoleucine 193mg
Leucine 465mg
Lysine 390mg
Methionine 67.2mg
Cystine 74.0mg
Phenylalanine 272mg
Tyrosine 169mg
Valine 339mg
Arginine 678mg
Histidine 102mg
Alanine 814mg
Aspartic acid 626mg
Glutamic acid 1068mg
Glycine 1669mg
Proline 1017mg
Serine 364mg
Hydroxyproline


Don't know if that helps. Mark Sisson stated in a blog post that the glycine content was useful.
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