Low Carb Friends  
Netrition.com - Tools - Reviews - Faces - Recipes - Home


Go Back   Low Carb Friends > Eating and Exercise Plans > Weight Loss Plans > Nutritional Ketosis / High Fat, Low Carb
Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-14-2013, 11:35 AM   #31
Major LCF Poster!
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,963
Gallery: Auntie Em
WOE: VLC-Pastoral
Start Date: Maintenance since 2000
Cfine, would you consider lowering the PRO amounts by steps? You might find that instead of 80 - 100 grams per day, that you do well on 70-80.

Although limiting protein amounts to 40 grams a day could achieve weight loss, it could be at the expense of muscle and at the expense of cellular repair.

I have found small changes can bring very nice results and rewards. For example, I find pastured dairy and pastured meat much more satisfying and satiating that grain-fed. Using brie or camembert, and cream cheese, rather than the higher protein cheese, is a nice indulgence, and keeps the protein intake in the limits.

My experience with low protein days, 35-50g/d, has been that they are nicely calm, slimming, and that I find I eat much more protein after those days, because I wasn't eating enough protein for nourishment and good health.

Dr. Richard Bernstein says not to go below .8g PRO per Kg of ideal body weight, if one has a sedentary lifestyle. The more active one is, physically, the more protein one needs. Dr. Kwasniewski's ratios are similar. Dr. K's method for calculating protein amounts is by height. If one is 160 cm. tall, the due body weight is 60. (Height in cm. minus 100) The protein amount in bioavailable proteins (meat, egg yolks, fish, marrow, offal) is 60 grams, plus or minus 10%. That means 54 - 66 g/d.

Dr. K's ratios for weight loss are to have the fat grams at 1.5 - 2 times the protein amounts, and carb grams at 1/2 the protein amount, or even down to .3 of protein.

That would mean for the 60g PRO, Fat at 90 - 120 grams, and carbs at 20-30g.
----

I reckon fat at 10 calories per gram, as it is easy to calculate,

At those levels: Pro + carbs = 90g, times 4 calories per gram , = 360 Kcals.
Fat at 120 grams, times 10 calories per gram, = 1200 Kcals.
Total Calories: 1560.

If that's not enough food for the 160cm (height) person, one could increase the PRO grams to 66 or even higher, til one adjusts, and the fat higher, until one adjusts.

----

Things I have found helpful, to not stimulate too much insulin (which lowers blood sugar and stimulates appetite): small amounts of protein, small amounts of food. That means, four or five small meals a day. For me, that also means, real food. I rarely eat anything that someone else has prepared. Once in a while I will eat beef hot dogs or beef bacon, but not regularly.

Hope this helps!

I wish you happy and successfully experiments.
__________________
Maintainers Over 55



Best wishes for happy, healthy LCing.
Auntie Em is offline   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old 11-14-2013, 05:22 PM   #32
Very Gabby LCF Member!!!
 
cfine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 4,083
Gallery: cfine
Stats: 276/217/199
WOE: NK
Start Date: April 2012
I have ended up eating about 85 grams per day for the last two days. Anything less and I feel like I did when I had mono. I was eating upwards of 100 grams so this is an improvement. Thanks to everyone who has contributed their thoughts.
cfine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2013, 05:48 PM   #33
Blabbermouth!!!
 
Ntombi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Boston, then OH, then NYC, now SoCal. Whew!
Posts: 38,380
Gallery: Ntombi
Stats: Restart: 360/284.4/190
WOE: Atkins for weight loss, NK for maintenance.
Start Date: Restarted: 1-3-13 Original: 8-23-02
I look forward to hearing how it works for you.
Ntombi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2013, 09:11 AM   #34
Very Gabby LCF Member!!!
 
cfine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 4,083
Gallery: cfine
Stats: 276/217/199
WOE: NK
Start Date: April 2012
So far it's working well. I was 209 about a week or so ago. I was 206.6 this morning. I'll take it!!
cfine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2013, 12:06 PM   #35
Blabbermouth!!!
 
Ntombi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Boston, then OH, then NYC, now SoCal. Whew!
Posts: 38,380
Gallery: Ntombi
Stats: Restart: 360/284.4/190
WOE: Atkins for weight loss, NK for maintenance.
Start Date: Restarted: 1-3-13 Original: 8-23-02
Ntombi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2013, 07:25 AM   #36
Very Gabby LCF Member!!!
 
cfine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 4,083
Gallery: cfine
Stats: 276/217/199
WOE: NK
Start Date: April 2012
204 this morning!! Who would have guessed that 20 grams of protein could make SUCH a huge difference? I haven't backed down on my calories, just the protein.
cfine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2013, 08:12 AM   #37
Major LCF Poster!
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,606
Gallery: Mistizoom
Stats: 300/200/190 initial goal
WOE: low carb
Start Date: November 2012
That's great!
Mistizoom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2013, 09:43 AM   #38
Chatty Cathy
 
clackley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Ontario
Posts: 16,767
Gallery: clackley
Stats: 228.5/168/125
WOE: N.K.=vlc/hf/moderate protein & organic/pastured
Start Date: Restart Oct 18 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by cfine View Post
204 this morning!! Who would have guessed that 20 grams of protein could make SUCH a huge difference? I haven't backed down on my calories, just the protein.
Closing in on wonderland!!

I am correct in assuming that you are replacing your protein with fat?
clackley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2013, 10:32 AM   #39
Very Gabby LCF Member!!!
 
cfine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 4,083
Gallery: cfine
Stats: 276/217/199
WOE: NK
Start Date: April 2012
You are correct, Clackley
cfine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2013, 09:28 AM   #40
Major LCF Poster!
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,963
Gallery: Auntie Em
WOE: VLC-Pastoral
Start Date: Maintenance since 2000
Cfine, I'm glad you are doing so well. I wish you continued success!
Auntie Em is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2013, 12:44 PM   #41
Junior LCF Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 2
Gallery: dsacco
I'm new - well I"m back at low carb for many reasons (I was at LCF back 12 years ago or so with the ORIGINAL Atkins and maintained that WOL for 2+ years)...first and foremost is Lyme Disease (but that's another story).

So with the HFLC what I am coming up with is protein at an average of 93g per day (116 LBM) and I always get out of ketosis if I am above 20g carbs...

does that sound about right if I want to lean out?

I haven't been tracking - but I KNOW my brain fog is huge when I drop the fat down so I am looking up so cool new fat bomb recipes

Thanks!

~ Dana
dsacco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2013, 05:13 PM   #42
Senior LCF Member
 
Checkoutchick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 80
Gallery: Checkoutchick
Stats: 199/151/143
WOE: Atkins (NANY)
Start Date: 17/06/13
Quote:
Originally Posted by cfine View Post
204 this morning!! Who would have guessed that 20 grams of protein could make SUCH a huge difference? I haven't backed down on my calories, just the protein.
That is so encouraging
My protein range is from 73g (very sedentary) - 140g (athlete) but comes with a recommendation of around 87g according to the Keto Calculator.
Or 66g - 110g by calculating 0.6 - 1.0 per lb of LBM.
Or around 77g according to the OD.
I've been struggling for the past week or so, feeling hungry in the evenings and my blood ketones showed that I was out of Ketosis probably because I gave in to my hunger and had several snacks on top of my meals.
As of yesterday I have been tracking meticulously again, today's sts 1437 cals / 125g fat / 15g carbs / 59g pro, and I am not hungry tonight
I've set my tracker at 75g pro and 25g carbs and will try hard not to exceed those. It will be interesting to see what the scales and ketone strips have to say next week.... if hunger returns and/or ketones are low, I'll drop the protein by 5g until I'm back in the Zone
Checkoutchick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2013, 05:16 PM   #43
Senior LCF Member
 
Checkoutchick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 80
Gallery: Checkoutchick
Stats: 199/151/143
WOE: Atkins (NANY)
Start Date: 17/06/13
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsacco View Post
I'm new - well I"m back at low carb for many reasons (I was at LCF back 12 years ago or so with the ORIGINAL Atkins and maintained that WOL for 2+ years)...first and foremost is Lyme Disease (but that's another story).

So with the HFLC what I am coming up with is protein at an average of 93g per day (116 LBM) and I always get out of ketosis if I am above 20g carbs...

does that sound about right if I want to lean out?

I haven't been tracking - but I KNOW my brain fog is huge when I drop the fat down so I am looking up so cool new fat bomb recipes

Thanks!

~ Dana
What happens if you increase your carbs to 25g BUT you decrease your protein by say 10g ?
Checkoutchick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2013, 06:49 AM   #44
Senior LCF Member
 
3fatcats's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: WI- land of cold cows
Posts: 373
Gallery: 3fatcats
Stats: 184/169/160? , 5'7" learn to maintain!
WOE: NK-Stillmans-Atkins
I'm 5-8", 181.5 and have good muscle mass (thanks dad!). My frame is large (I have to wear a mens watch).

My sweet spot is 80% fat, 15% protein (about 80 gr) and 5% carbs. Any less protein I'm hungry, and more I gain weight.
3fatcats is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2013, 07:02 AM   #45
Chatty Cathy
 
clackley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Ontario
Posts: 16,767
Gallery: clackley
Stats: 228.5/168/125
WOE: N.K.=vlc/hf/moderate protein & organic/pastured
Start Date: Restart Oct 18 2009
I am trying a different thing today. I was listening to a podcast whom the speaker was Dave Asprey (of bullet proof coffee fame) and he claims that 1 day a week to reduce protein to 15g or lower and the 'weight will melt off'.

I highly doubt that the weight will 'melt off' me but even a budge in the right direction is 'A' okay!!

He does encourage an increase in carbs but that wouldn't work for me so I am doing a fat fast of sorts but not adhering to the calorie limit.
clackley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2013, 09:40 AM   #46
Major LCF Poster!
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,963
Gallery: Auntie Em
WOE: VLC-Pastoral
Start Date: Maintenance since 2000
Cathy, I find that one low-PRO day a week gives something a rest, and makes it easier to maintain. Increasing carbs for me only means appetite-trigger, not feeling as poised, and weight gain
Auntie Em is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2013, 11:09 AM   #47
Chatty Cathy
 
clackley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Ontario
Posts: 16,767
Gallery: clackley
Stats: 228.5/168/125
WOE: N.K.=vlc/hf/moderate protein & organic/pastured
Start Date: Restart Oct 18 2009
That is interesting about the rest. I wonder what the science is behind that?
clackley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2013, 10:08 AM   #48
Major LCF Poster!
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,963
Gallery: Auntie Em
WOE: VLC-Pastoral
Start Date: Maintenance since 2000
Cathy, do you mean a rest from more protein? If so, I have read that it has to do with the insulin response to protein, and perhaps even the rise in blood sugar. Dr. Richard Bernstein recommends lowering protein if one has not lost weight at 30g CHO/d. I haven't read the things for quite a while, and don't remember there being a detailed explanation of the science of lowering the protein. There might also be something in Life Without Bread about growth hormone stimulation, in that section on anabolic and catabolic functioning. If you don't have those books, I can check mine and get back to this thread.

Last edited by Auntie Em; 12-03-2013 at 10:09 AM.. Reason: clarification
Auntie Em is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2013, 03:59 PM   #49
Chatty Cathy
 
clackley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Ontario
Posts: 16,767
Gallery: clackley
Stats: 228.5/168/125
WOE: N.K.=vlc/hf/moderate protein & organic/pastured
Start Date: Restart Oct 18 2009
Auntie Em, yes I do agree that insulin response is a factor .... Seems not to be stated as such in my readings so far. I don't recall any mention of this in Life Without Bread so likely, it is in Bernstein's books. I keep threatening to read his but somehow never do...

I do understand that too much protein can and does convert to glucose and thus potentially threatens ketosis but I have close tabs on this so the absolute lack of protein is a bit different.
clackley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2013, 09:06 AM   #50
Senior LCF Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 662
Gallery: Green
Stats: no scale unless doing PHD
WOE: HDE, Potatoes as needed
Start Date: May 2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by clackley View Post
I am trying a different thing today. I was listening to a podcast whom the speaker was Dave Asprey (of bullet proof coffee fame) and he claims that 1 day a week to reduce protein to 15g or lower and the 'weight will melt off'.

I highly doubt that the weight will 'melt off' me but even a budge in the right direction is 'A' okay!!

He does encourage an increase in carbs but that wouldn't work for me so I am doing a fat fast of sorts but not adhering to the calorie limit.
Cathy, did you see any results with this or is it too soon to tell?
Green is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2013, 09:27 AM   #51
Major LCF Poster!
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,963
Gallery: Auntie Em
WOE: VLC-Pastoral
Start Date: Maintenance since 2000
Cathy, I'll do some reading and post here, if I find anything of use.
Auntie Em is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2013, 10:33 AM   #52
Chatty Cathy
 
clackley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Ontario
Posts: 16,767
Gallery: clackley
Stats: 228.5/168/125
WOE: N.K.=vlc/hf/moderate protein & organic/pastured
Start Date: Restart Oct 18 2009
Too early to say if it helped in the weight loss dept except that it wasn't a negative.

Auntie Em, really appreciate your efforts and hopefully you will find something .
clackley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2013, 02:06 PM   #53
Senior LCF Member
 
lowcarbella's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 438
Gallery: lowcarbella
Stats: 241(pregnancy highest)/185/150(or 20-25%BF)
WOE: LCHF/NK/MFF
Start Date: Feb 2012
I have tried this approach one week when i was already in ketosis and had great appetite suppression.I did his BPC fasting coupled with an ounce of macadamia just one or two times.I had amazing results and pushed through a plateau to drop 3 more pounds.
Sadly thats not a lot of food,so I may binge later on,so i decided to keep this trick for long plateaus only.
lowcarbella is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2013, 12:17 PM   #54
Major LCF Poster!
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,963
Gallery: Auntie Em
WOE: VLC-Pastoral
Start Date: Maintenance since 2000
Cathy, I didn't find anything in Dr. Bernstein's book or Dr. Lutz's book which explains the biochemistry of why eating less protein, or less of a particular protein food, would result in weight loss. If I run across something, I will post it.

Auntie Em is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:09 PM.


Copyright ©1999-2014 Friends Forums LLC. All rights reserved. - Terms of Service | Privacy Policy
LowCarbFriends® is a registered mark of Friends Forums, LLC.