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Old 11-02-2013, 11:18 PM   #1
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All kinds of health issues coming up, don't know what to do. :(

Despite all the high energy and well being in NK, I seem to be having a host of other problems turning up and I dont know if its NK related or something else.
I casually mentioned about a joint(?) pain I was having to my parents and my mum immediately said it was most likely due to my unhealthy dieting habits... and that there was an article recently about how nutrients are missing from those dieting. I responded saying I was taking calcium/magnesium/D/Zinc prescribed by the doc so it couldn't be related to that...

Anyway, since NK, I have been noticing on and off inflammation in my thumb, forefinger and little finger. All the inflammation is around the area on the palm side (the whole area from the top most joint line upto the tip of my finger where it meets the nail). Severe itching and if I put pressure on it its like pure torture and it takes a min or two to recover. So things like turning a tight tap, or scrubbing something is a painful affair. This is only in my left hand (I'm right handed btw). Then after a couple of hours a dull ache seems to travel up to my elbow and to my shoulder and it is like that for a few days.

At first I thought it was food, but after cutting out and introducing all what I had been eating these last few days, there seems to be no change.
I also noticed that both the times it really increased on the day after my long runs. I drink plenty of water, especially on the long run day, almost twice as usual... but both these last times I had severe nausea in between my long runs and almost crashed.

I have been searching online but cant find anything on this. I dont know if the hard running that I do in between the long runs (gets my heart rate almost to my max) is a partial cause of this.

I am slowly beginning to consider adding back more carbs on long run days (still less than 50g to stay in NK hopefully) and also trying to see if I should be worried about uric acid...?

Last edited by elliot; 11-02-2013 at 11:20 PM..
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Old 11-03-2013, 12:47 AM   #2
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Hi Elliot,I am sorry you have to go through this.I have no advice but this


You may want to go see a doc and maybe get some bloodwork done?
Sometimes it takes a while to figure it all out.Good luck
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Old 11-03-2013, 04:54 AM   #3
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Does the pain go away with a pain reliever like ibuprofen? Maybe it's some arthritis

I have disc issues in my neck and when they flare up I get pain in my hand due to nerve compression. And then it does travel up the arm and in to the deltoid muscle. It can be something like that too.

Do you feel any numbness or tingling in the fingers? I feel mine first in the little finger. You should be able to google hand pain and numbness and see if you find references to pinched nerves and such.

Definitely go to the doctor if you think that's what it is, but the so-called immediate cure is to rest it, take ant-inflammatories, and after a bit do some PT on the neck. I also had some spinal epidurals in my neck to get the inflammation down.

Did you ever hurt your neck?
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Old 11-03-2013, 05:22 AM   #4
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I think gout is normally seen first in the toes, but it sorta sounds like the symptoms. is it hot and red? you might google gout and read. sorry you have this problem!
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Old 11-03-2013, 06:10 AM   #5
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It sounds like gout and that is not helped by adding more carbs. Iodine deficiency is more likely the cause. It is not something that happens overnight either. As RR suggested, do a search.

If you are getting a lot of 'push back' from the people around you concerning your way of eating, you must be confident in what you are doing and the only way to do that is to understand the reasons why this way of eating is healthy. Do some reading and develop your knowledge base. The comments from others will have less importance on you if you have the science to back up your dietary decisions. There is a wealth of information in the form of books, articles, blogs, podcasts and video. Just ask if you don't know where to start. The knowledgeable people here are more than happy to point you in the right direction.
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Old 11-03-2013, 08:41 AM   #6
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Hi Elliot,I am sorry you have to go through this.I have no advice but this
You may want to go see a doc and maybe get some bloodwork done?
Sometimes it takes a while to figure it all out.Good luck
Thanks lowcarbella , its been really tough these last few days...
On friday we had a party at my (very close) relatives... 3 birthdays in one family. It was my favourite 2 cakes - rich chocolate cake and vanilla coffee cake. I didn't feel too bad, but did wish I could have some cake too. Anyway didn't eat any... just had a strawberry off the cake (after washing all the sugar coating off it).
After all this, its like heart breaking when things like unexplained health issues just put you off...
Going to the ortho tomorrow, its going to be a long wait I guess as I don't have an appointment. Lets see what he says...
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Old 11-03-2013, 08:50 AM   #7
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Does the pain go away with a pain reliever like ibuprofen? Maybe it's some arthritis
I have disc issues in my neck and when they flare up I get pain in my hand due to nerve compression. And then it does travel up the arm and in to the deltoid muscle. It can be something like that too.
Do you feel any numbness or tingling in the fingers? I feel mine first in the little finger. You should be able to google hand pain and numbness and see if you find references to pinched nerves and such.
Definitely go to the doctor if you think that's what it is, but the so-called immediate cure is to rest it, take ant-inflammatories, and after a bit do some PT on the neck. I also had some spinal epidurals in my neck to get the inflammation down. Did you ever hurt your neck?
I have not yet taken any medication. I'm the sort that usually waits till everything gets to the point of 'I NEED medication' before I take something.
There is an occasional slight numbness, but its more swelling, pain, tenderness, burning and itching. If I have swelling as an allergic reaction to something I have eaten, then it starts at the little finger and then thumb.
This, however starts at the thumb and forefinger and then travels up towards my wrist and beyond almost upto my shoulder. What does unnerve me is if I accidentally turn my hand at the thumb/wrist area as I am picking/grasping something I hear an audible and painful pop. Now, as I type this, my whole hand is kind of tender with a bearable pain all over it and some cold flushes in my fingers.

Yeah, I'm confused about my symptoms too
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Old 11-03-2013, 09:16 AM   #8
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I think gout is normally seen first in the toes, but it sorta sounds like the symptoms. is it hot and red? you might google gout and read. sorry you have this problem!
Yes, hot and red, itching and painful at the same time...
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It sounds like gout and that is not helped by adding more carbs. Iodine deficiency is more likely the cause. It is not something that happens overnight either. As RR suggested, do a search.
...According to a few sites I have visited, I should be having itching and peeling of skin as the symptoms subsides, but I don't have that.. just itching and redness and swelling when I have the symptoms...
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If you are getting a lot of 'push back' from the people around you concerning your way of eating, you must be confident in what you are doing and the only way to do that is to understand the reasons why this way of eating is healthy. Do some reading and develop your knowledge base. The comments from others will have less importance on you if you have the science to back up your dietary decisions. There is a wealth of information in the form of books, articles, blogs, podcasts and video. Just ask if you don't know where to start. The knowledgeable people here are more than happy to point you in the right direction.
I have been reading up a long time and sadly, yes its a battle sometimes, especially with people who are close to me, but I will hang in there. I am convinced about this WOE, and if I did add any carbs back it would be NK legal foods within NK limits... currently I am on real low carbs.

Anyways, tomorrow I am going to see the doc and hopefully I'll get some answers and some relief...
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Old 11-03-2013, 10:51 AM   #9
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It's good you are seeing a doc. It may not be diet related at all. In fact I would guess it isn't. Sounds like arthritis or gout. Unfortunately it could be an auto-immune issue. Either may mean a trip to a rheumatologist.
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Old 11-03-2013, 12:42 PM   #10
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I was diagnosed with gout 15+ years ago, and I take regular medication for it, but on occasion I still get flare-ups. (Usually happens in spring and fall - something about the change of seasons triggers it). It feels like someone is sticking a red-hot knife in the joint. I'm sorry you're getting it in your hands - that sounds miserable!

A quick and easy remedy for the pain is to take cherry pills. You can get them in a health food store, and they are low-carb (unlike cherry juice, which is effective but very high in carbs). The pain should disappear within 20 minutes of taking a dose; if after 1/2 hour you're still feeling discomfort, you can take more. It may take a few doses to get completely past the gout flare-up, and you may need to start taking allopurinol to avoid future problems. Definitely talk to your doctor about it, and be prepared for some finger-wagging about how much protein you eat. Diet does impact gout - it's especially triggered by the purines in turkey, shellfish, beef and bullions - but that doesn't mean a low-carb diet should be avoided.

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Old 11-03-2013, 03:26 PM   #11
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Definitely talk to your doctor about it, and be prepared for some finger-wagging about how much protein you eat. Diet does impact gout - it's especially triggered by the purines in turkey, shellfish, beef and bullions - but that doesn't mean a low-carb diet should be avoided.
Right, diet may affect gout, but different foods are triggers for different people. My husband has had some very bad gout attacks and finds he can eat most processed meats just fine, but he now has to avoid ham, for example.
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Old 11-04-2013, 03:39 AM   #12
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I was diagnosed with gout 15+ years ago, and I take regular medication for it, but on occasion I still get flare-ups. (Usually happens in spring and fall - something about the change of seasons triggers it). It feels like someone is sticking a red-hot knife in the joint. I'm sorry you're getting it in your hands - that sounds miserable! ..Diet does impact gout - it's especially triggered by the purines in turkey, shellfish, beef and bullions - but that doesn't mean a low-carb diet should be avoided.
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It's good you are seeing a doc. It may not be diet related at all. In fact I would guess it isn't. Sounds like arthritis or gout. Unfortunately it could be an auto-immune issue. Either may mean a trip to a rheumatologist.
I hope its not gout... or at least diet related gout. I can already see people shake their head saying 'I told you so'... but then again my protein levels are lower than what I used to take on atkins... except for some days like special occasion when I go above... and trigger food what I have seen so far, I don't take them often either...
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Old 11-04-2013, 03:53 AM   #13
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I went to the Doc (ortho) today, he first ordered an x-ray to be sure I didn't have any fracture or something. It was clear. Then after that he asked me to do a bloodwork for the following: ESR, RHfactor, Uric acid, Vit D levels.

I gathered my guts and discussed with him the likelihood of dietary changes causing this. He said it was possible but it could be anything. Then I told him about my WOE and he was actually surprised that I had gotten lean by eating fat. He did agree that I was right in that my body would metabolise fat in the absence of carbs, but he had yet to see a person doing this. So I told him that I shall be his guinea pig. Told him how since I moved into this WOE, I'm not hungry as often, instead I eat when I am actually hungry, how my migraines have subsided considerably and I have gotten lean (except for the stupid weighing machine). Also how I can walk/run almost 8-10k without even having breakfast.

He was thankfully supportive, so I guess I can rest assured that incase my blood work comes out all messed up due to my dietary changes I can at least discuss possible options to continue by tweaking it instead of discarding it altogether.
I took special care not to mention 'Ketosis' but instead said 'Lyposis'. (Due to my experience with my old family doc, who pounced on me the moment he heard the word Ketosis and continued on about ketoacidosis).
My results will be available only on Thursday and I have a followup appointment on thursday so will know then for sure.

Whatever happens, I might at the most modify this WOE, but not going back to carbs... not worth it at all.

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Old 11-04-2013, 03:57 AM   #14
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Good luck on the blood work.

I just say "low carb" to my doctor, she's cool with that since she knows my "sugars run high" (as she says....not to label me.) I don't go deeper into details.
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Old 11-04-2013, 04:59 AM   #15
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I was diagnosed with gout 15+ years ago, and I take regular medication for it, but on occasion I still get flare-ups. (Usually happens in spring and fall - something about the change of seasons triggers it). It feels like someone is sticking a red-hot knife in the joint. I'm sorry you're getting it in your hands - that sounds miserable!
A quick and easy remedy for the pain is to take cherry pills. You can get them in a health food store, and they are low-carb (unlike cherry juice, which is effective but very high in carbs). The pain should disappear within 20 minutes of taking a dose...
Thanks for the tip MerryKate. Just curious, is butter, HWC and eggs ok to have IF it's gout? My results come on Thursday, but with the pain and discomfort would like to keep cooking to the minimum... As it's getting too painful to do much with my left hand now... Also maybe it might help me get through till Thursday.
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Old 11-04-2013, 05:41 AM   #16
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Here is a link to a good article on gout for your consideration...

Will Eating a Paleo Diet Cause Gout?
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Old 11-04-2013, 09:25 AM   #17
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Here is a link to a good article on gout for your consideration...
Will Eating a Paleo Diet Cause Gout?
Thankyou for that link clackley, that helped a lot . From what I read, unless other underlying causes, I guess I don't have much to worry about diet wise besides most of what I eat are not triggers either.
Shall see what the doc says and then see how I can get this pain down... now typing with just one hand...
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Old 11-05-2013, 02:29 PM   #18
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Yes, hot and red, itching and painful at the same time...

...According to a few sites I have visited, I should be having itching and peeling of skin as the symptoms subsides, but I don't have that.. just itching and redness and swelling when I have the symptoms...

I have been reading up a long time and sadly, yes its a battle sometimes, especially with people who are close to me, but I will hang in there. I am convinced about this WOE, and if I did add any carbs back it would be NK legal foods within NK limits... currently I am on real low carbs.

Anyways, tomorrow I am going to see the doc and hopefully I'll get some answers and some relief...
Maybe you are allergic to something you are eating. Some vegetables can cause gout to flare up also. Asparagus is one of those. I am not saying it is gout. Try an elimination diet. Start with something you know you can eat without problems and then add in one food at a time to see if it is the problem. I had to give up nightshades, because they cause the joints in my hands to hurt.
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Old 11-05-2013, 11:08 PM   #19
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Maybe you are allergic to something you are eating. Some vegetables can cause gout to flare up also. Asparagus is one of those. I am not saying it is gout. Try an elimination diet. Start with something you know you can eat without problems and then add in one food at a time to see if it is the problem. I had to give up nightshades, because they cause the joints in my hands to hurt.
Carolyn
Thanks for the tip Carolyn...
I am infact trying that right now. I realised I was allergic to Ivy based medications when my left hand swelled up the day after I started the medication. This happened a few weeks ago. Its weird that only my left hand seems to react to this.
I have my follow up with the doc tomorrow and I'll get my results as well as ask him about food based allergies affecting one side like this...
Today my swelling is considerably down, but these last 2 days I wasn't very low carb and today I am back to ketosis. Did a 7k run this morning and will be trying out each food item one by one and see how my hand reacts to it...
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Old 11-06-2013, 04:12 AM   #20
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Thanks for the tip Carolyn...
I am infact trying that right now. I realised I was allergic to Ivy based medications when my left hand swelled up the day after I started the medication. This happened a few weeks ago. Its weird that only my left hand seems to react to this.
I have my follow up with the doc tomorrow and I'll get my results as well as ask him about food based allergies affecting one side like this...
Today my swelling is considerably down, but these last 2 days I wasn't very low carb and today I am back to ketosis. Did a 7k run this morning and will be trying out each food item one by one and see how my hand reacts to it...
Elliot ,I have been suffering from food allergies for 8 years.
I break into hives when I eat gluten,casein(milk,yougurt),eggs,nuts,legumes and lentils,corn and soy.

If its a food allergy and u break into hives,the undigested molecules pass through your gut into the bloodstream and your body reacts to them as if they are foreign particles resulting in hives.Any body part can swell up.But for one food at one particular time ,it could be deposited in one part of the body.Usually I start by getting hives in my palms,then legs then entire back and so on.The only way to stop is stop eating those foods.
Rigorous homeopathy treatment brought mine under control.

You may want to keep a food diary and write everything down,this is the best way to find out.Hope you find out whats going on soon.
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Old 11-06-2013, 10:05 AM   #21
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Thanks for the tip Carolyn...
I am infact trying that right now. I realised I was allergic to Ivy based medications when my left hand swelled up the day after I started the medication. This happened a few weeks ago. Its weird that only my left hand seems to react to this.
I have my follow up with the doc tomorrow and I'll get my results as well as ask him about food based allergies affecting one side like this...
Today my swelling is considerably down, but these last 2 days I wasn't very low carb and today I am back to ketosis. Did a 7k run this morning and will be trying out each food item one by one and see how my hand reacts to it...
Some people also get a reaction if they exercise too much. Maybe running not so far might also help.
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Old 11-09-2013, 09:30 AM   #22
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Some people also get a reaction if they exercise too much. Maybe running not so far might also help.
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I didn't think about that... I think it is possible as I was really pushing myself the last 2 times I ran, but my recent 7k was a more easy run. Will have a few easy long runs and see how it turns out.
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Old 11-09-2013, 09:34 AM   #23
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Got my blood results and doc said every things normal (Thank God!) except for a deficiency in Vit D. He suggested I keep running at least twice a week outdoors and then see if my condition improves with the Vit D & calcium supplements. If not he said I would most probably have to do a Nerve Conduction test to see if it could be an issue. He also said I could continue my low carb as long as I was comfortable with it.

I am so glad the rest of the results were normal. However I still need to find out what triggered the inflammation in the first place. Its considerably reduced now, and pain and itching too, but I still need to find the cause .
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Old 11-09-2013, 08:56 PM   #24
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Got my blood results and doc said every things normal (Thank God!) except for a deficiency in Vit D. He suggested I keep running at least twice a week outdoors and then see if my condition improves with the Vit D & calcium supplements. If not he said I would most probably have to do a Nerve Conduction test to see if it could be an issue. He also said I could continue my low carb as long as I was comfortable with it.

I am so glad the rest of the results were normal. However I still need to find out what triggered the inflammation in the first place. Its considerably reduced now, and pain and itching too, but I still need to find the cause .
Have you tried taking an antihistamine after running. It may be an allergy. You really do not need too much calcium. Calcium supplements can cause inflammation in your kidneys and your arteries. You should get your calcium through your foods, such as cheese. If you are outside, you probably do not need vitamin D either. Your body makes vitamin D when you are out in the sun. If you do take vitamin D make sure that it is vitamin D3 and do not take too much as you can overdose on it.
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Old 11-11-2013, 03:38 AM   #25
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Have you tried taking an antihistamine after running. It may be an allergy. You really do not need too much calcium. Calcium supplements can cause inflammation in your kidneys and your arteries. You should get your calcium through your foods, such as cheese. If you are outside, you probably do not need vitamin D either. Your body makes vitamin D when you are out in the sun. If you do take vitamin D make sure that it is vitamin D3 and do not take too much as you can overdose on it.
Carolyn
Yes, its D3 and I have been asked to take it every alternate day only. I run twice outdoors, but my arms and face are the only parts that are not covered... but then I was wearing sunscreen and that seems to block D3 absorption as well.

I might keep away from cheese for a while, its the only food I have actually introduced to my diet since I started NK. I guess I'll just wait and see how my hand is after a bit as I reintroduce individual foods.
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Old 11-11-2013, 05:07 AM   #26
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Stats: Original SW:190 SW:162.8 CW:145 GW:119
WOE: LCHF
Start Date: 10th Nov 2013
Hey elliot, sorry to hear you are feeling poorly, hope you see an improvement!! Sorry I have no ideas about this but have my fingers crossed for you x
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Old 11-12-2013, 09:02 AM   #27
Chatty Cathy
 
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Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Ontario
Posts: 15,583
Gallery: clackley
Stats: 228.5/168/125
WOE: N.K.=vlc/hf/moderate protein & organic/pastured
Start Date: Restart Oct 18 2009
Interesting information on d3 absorption and the need for K2 has been coming up lately. Here is a good link on the subject.....

Vitamin K2, Vitamin D, and Calcium: A Winning Combo
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Old 11-12-2013, 02:31 PM   #28
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 914
Gallery: Punkin
Stats: 160/95/100
WOE: NK or LC
Just remember that there are a lot of people out there who have a vested interested in our anxiety.....keeping us thinking we need carbs and that we are unhealthy. You will find a lot of people in your life will help perpetuate these fears. Its just the brainwashing we have been exposed to through advertising. The more we think we need carbs and drugs, the more our major corporations make money and keep the economy going. Just because some people think they need them, it doesn't mean that people actually do.

That is probably of little comfort, however, if you find you are struggling over cake you're probably caught up in it more than you think. You can make your own cake with things like full fat dairy, splenda or sweetners, chocolate (which is a legal food for NK) and a low carb flour such as oat fiber. There are also other flours which work but that is the one I use because it is high in fiber. Anyways, I hope things get better for you. NK, is a healthy WOE, unless you completely ignore the nutrition aspect and only eat oil!
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Old 11-13-2013, 06:18 AM   #29
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 220
Gallery: sheened
Stats: Original SW:190 SW:162.8 CW:145 GW:119
WOE: LCHF
Start Date: 10th Nov 2013
Hey elliot, how are you getting on?
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