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-   -   Help! Question for endurance runners. (http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/nutritional-ketosis-high-fat-low-carb/816365-help-question-endurance-runners.html)

elliot 11-01-2013 07:36 AM

Help! Question for endurance runners.
 
Since the time I began walking/running I was doing it early in the morning on an empty stomach. Lately (since NK) its been very difficult. :(
Upto 10k I am almost fine, but go past and I am doomed. Depending on the time I have, to complete the 10k, I push myself and enjoy it. I alternate by running a bit and then walking then run and so on.

I have been running for a while (run/walk... actually) and have worked unto doing a 10k in 1:40 and I am working up for a 21k. Now the problem is this:
-The last 15k I did in Sept, I ran on low carb (not NK) and bonked (fatigue) at 10k and crawled through the last 5k then just stopped.
-Since going NK a few days after that, I have now almost adapted to doing the same distance as before NK, with only one major problem...
- I reach 10k absolutely perfectly. Then I suddenly get slight tummy cramps then a second later extreme fatigue and then wham I throw up... mostly all the water I have consumed till then (about 1L).
- The first time this happened I thought it was due to the 'drink' I made (a concoction of coconut oil, macadamia nuts and HWC which I was sipping through the run. That was last Saturday. I puked at 10k, then I felt so energetic, I did another 5k and then puked again...:sad:. The rest of the day I was perfectly fine.
- Today was my next long run after that, and I did this without drinking anything in-between except water. I reached 10k and the same wave of nausea, fatigue and ended in puking and then I was fine for about 10min and felt a bit sick again but recovered soon. I stopped my run and returned home.

I have a 10k run next friday and I have not told DH about me having puked (i run alone but in a crowded public area) and I don't want to surprise him on race day with the grand finale of puking all over the finish line :stars:
So I might just not run the 10k. I haven't registered yet as I do have the option of registering the day before the race... so I am going to delay as long as possible.
My next race is a 21k in Dec first week. That race I have to do, but I need to do it without all this drama in-between or I am going to have to forfeit that race too :(

Please help!:aprayer:

elliot 11-01-2013 07:52 AM

I add morton lite salt to a bit of water to sip in-between as my rate of prespiration increases... so sodium and potassium seems on track too.

Punkin 11-04-2013 06:13 AM

You do understand that intense exercise still requires carbs, don't you? I don't think that anything over an hour is realistic on a NK type of diet. If you reduce your carbs too low you are going to run into problems with exercise. I think that you should consult a sports nutritionalist. Extreme low carb diets generally aren't realistic for athletes. There are other options such as carb cycling, or using a slow release type of carb to fuel your exercise.

elliot 11-04-2013 09:18 AM

Thanks Punkin, I was sort of beginning to think along those lines. I am considering increasing my carbs on the day before and the morning of my run. Seeing a sport nutritionalist won't work for me as well, they are like really expensive here... so my only option is trial and error.
However I don't know if increasing my carbs and NK otherwise will help me get beyond the bonk I feel after 10-12k... gotta try.

chickenality 11-05-2013 08:58 AM

I'm a marathon runner who's on the low carb diet. I find it hard too, but there are definitely people who have said that they've run marathons successfully while on a low carb diet. Personally, I think that those are the exceptional people. For normal people like me (and maybe you), I make sure to drink a lot of Gatorade during my runs, since it has sugar AND electrolytes. Not sure if Morton Lite salt has enough sodium for you, because I know it's supposed to have reduced sodium levels. I also make sure to eat the sugar gel called Gu every 45 minutes while running. https://guenergy.com/ Don't know if you know about it, but you can get it at most sports stores. Not sure about in Dubai though :-/ Additionally, I carbo load the night before, but not the morning of because running soon after eating causes me to throw up, which I know you're trying to avoid.

elliot 11-05-2013 11:14 PM

Thanks Chickenality, However I am kinda unsure about adding in the gels and stuff... :( I was reading Peter Attia's blog and decided to try a few things differently. I run early, and I am going to try and have a light breakfast an hour or more before my run.
Also I am going to try and keep within my fat burning zone and not go up to my max heart rate. Will also try keeping some salted peanuts (homemade) to see if it will make a difference.

My next run is this friday and I have selected a spot right next door to where I'll be staying at. This way if I have an emergency, I'm just a 5 min walk away from home. I have decided against running this weekend's 10k, instead going ahead and trying to prepare for the 21k in Dec.

monica1210 11-06-2013 08:10 AM

Elliot, I just recently ran 10.5 miles with very little carbs in my system. (I typically eat under 20) Read the book "Low Carbohydrate Performance". It really changes your perspective. I ran a half marathon in September without carb loading and it went great. I didn't bonk and I felt really good.

I will say, however, I am not a super fast runner. I do it purely for the challenge and fun. :)

elliot 11-09-2013 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monica1210 (Post 16673108)
Elliot, I just recently ran 10.5 miles with very little carbs in my system. (I typically eat under 20) Read the book "Low Carbohydrate Performance". It really changes your perspective. I ran a half marathon in September without carb loading and it went great. I didn't bonk and I felt really good.
I will say, however, I am not a super fast runner. I do it purely for the challenge and fun. :)

Lol! I'm no fast runner myself... intact my running speed is almost equal to my fastest walking speed :o
I think my issue was I was running at too high a heart rate and obviously my body just crashed. More like, sprints then crawls then sprint again.
I think I'll try to stick to steady level running when its long distance runs and maintain my speed overall and for short runs try sprints and craws instead and see how it affects me. :)

I did read Low Carb Performance thats how I got into NK in the first place and things have improved a lot from the carb dependency days. I guess I just need to tweak stuff to find what works for me. :)

monica1210 11-10-2013 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elliot (Post 16677055)
my running speed is almost equal to my fastest walking speed :o

That's likely me too! :) My husband "ran" with me once and wondered if we were actually running or just speed walking. I am definitely running, but SLOWLY! :)

Have you read any of the marathon books by Jeff Galloway? That's how I run. Intervals the entire time. My current intervals are 2:1. The nice thing, is that when you find the right intervals, you get to your walk time and you don't feel like you're killing yourself. You just keep doing them over and over and over and over......

Perhaps cut your intervals down and see if you feel better. Keep running! :)

KetoSaurusRex 11-10-2013 06:25 AM

Elliot:
I am also a runner, I head up the turtle racing association, LOLZ
There are ways to do distance without much carb.
If running distance, say Half marathon race days, for example....
I drink 1-3 Muscle Milk, they are very low carb, I buy the pre-made prepackaged ones, and have 1-4 hardboiled eggs with salt & pepper generously smathered on them.
These things should be consumed at least an hour before start time of the race or run. It has not ever given me a sickness of any kind and muscle milk has lots of nutrients. Just stop eating eggs, and drinking that milk when you feel the first sign of full. I push until I feel "thanksgiving day full" but by mile 5 I forget I even ate. It is what works for ME.
In my fuel belt bottles? Pedialyte. Many of my friends make fun of me SO bad, but it has the absolute best balance of electrolytes, far better for you than Gatorade.
The last race of 13.1 I did, I used "Salt Stick Caps" (no sugar at all) and plain water, in my belt I had my frozen pedialyte, because by the time the race has been going 20 minutes it's at least 80 degrees so they don't stay frozen, and in the snack pouch of my fuel bottle belt I had dehydrated banana chips. If I started to feel gross, I'd put a few of those dried banana chips in my mouth and let them "melt" which made me salivate and feel like I was eating (also bought those premade, grocery store).
I am on a ketogenic diet and the goal for me, as prescribed by my endocrinologist, is to stay as zero carb as possible. He even told me if I was having race day, or distance running issues I could eat breakfast prior to a run over 10 miles.
I never have done that since trying a regular breakfast before my first 10K and vomiting every 1.5 miles or less. Yes, I finished but I was a mess. It took me longer to recover from that 10k than any 1/2 marathon, ever.
The muscle milk and boiled eggs works best for me.
You really can sustain with very very few or no carbs. I know, I have. But do whatever your body is telling you! :)

elliot 11-11-2013 03:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monica1210 (Post 16677755)
That's likely me too! :) My husband "ran" with me once and wondered if we were actually running or just speed walking. I am definitely running, but SLOWLY! :)
Have you read any of the marathon books by Jeff Galloway? That's how I run. Intervals the entire time. My current intervals are 2:1. The nice thing, is that when you find the right intervals, you get to your walk time and you don't feel like you're killing yourself. You just keep doing them over and over and over and over......
Perhaps cut your intervals down and see if you feel better. Keep running! :)

Sooo glad I'm not the only one who crawls instead of runs :laugh: and I keep telling myself, I'm running... hehe! I 'run' at barely 6.5k/hr and I'm trying to reach 7k/hr to be able to complete my upcoming HM before the cut-off time.
I have tried intervals, but I tend to overdo it at both ends, so I am now trying a slow and steady approach just trying to keep my speed steady and not huff and puff through it... hopefully it works better...

elliot 11-11-2013 04:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KetoSaurusRex (Post 16677783)
Elliot:
I am also a runner, I head up the turtle racing association, LOLZ
There are ways to do distance without much carb.
If running distance, say Half marathon race days, for example....
I drink 1-3 Muscle Milk, they are very low carb, I buy the pre-made prepackaged ones, and have 1-4 hardboiled eggs with salt & pepper generously smathered on them.
These things should be consumed at least an hour before start time of the race or run. It has not ever given me a sickness of any kind and muscle milk has lots of nutrients. Just stop eating eggs, and drinking that milk when you feel the first sign of full. I push until I feel "thanksgiving day full" but by mile 5 I forget I even ate. It is what works for ME.
In my fuel belt bottles? Pedialyte. Many of my friends make fun of me SO bad, but it has the absolute best balance of electrolytes, far better for you than Gatorade.
The last race of 13.1 I did, I used "Salt Stick Caps" (no sugar at all) and plain water, in my belt I had my frozen pedialyte, because by the time the race has been going 20 minutes it's at least 80 degrees so they don't stay frozen, and in the snack pouch of my fuel bottle belt I had dehydrated banana chips. If I started to feel gross, I'd put a few of those dried banana chips in my mouth and let them "melt" which made me salivate and feel like I was eating (also bought those premade, grocery store).
I am on a ketogenic diet and the goal for me, as prescribed by my endocrinologist, is to stay as zero carb as possible. He even told me if I was having race day, or distance running issues I could eat breakfast prior to a run over 10 miles.
I never have done that since trying a regular breakfast before my first 10K and vomiting every 1.5 miles or less. Yes, I finished but I was a mess. It took me longer to recover from that 10k than any 1/2 marathon, ever.
The muscle milk and boiled eggs works best for me.
You really can sustain with very very few or no carbs. I know, I have. But do whatever your body is telling you! :)

thanks so much for posting this! Yes, I think this is my issue too. I did a 6.43k 'run' today, my first almost virtually non-stop but I took a whole hour to do it and I was a bit out of NK. It was a steady run though and I felt a bit better today. I tried to keep my pace steady.

This friday is my next long run, and even though I do not have access to the Muscle milk or Pedialyte, I am planning to keep your tips in mind and hopefully this run might be a lot better.I shall try a light veg salad with boiled eggs and chicken broth.

monica1210 11-11-2013 05:57 AM

Ketosaurusrex, thank you! Great info in your post!

elliot 02-16-2014 04:54 AM

I had to bump up this thread. With all the new members and more others getting more active, could use any bit of info I can get.

My half marathon is done and out of the way. I had a cup of tea with whipping cream an hour before the race. Then had a bar of 'snickers' chocolate (cut into 4 pieces) that I had from the 8k mark onwards. It was the first time I had gone past the 20k point, but I made it in 3:30.

Now am thinking about a marathon next jan, but I am still trying to figure out racing fuel. Natural foods only, as store bought ones here are super expensive and I don't want them anyways.

Anyone with new ideas and tips?

Peace 02-16-2014 08:20 PM

This is great as I am trying to train for a marathon myself. I am new to running but I did do a half marathon in CO 3 years ago. Pretty much, low carb worked for me.

We will see. Good luck and keep us posted!

lowcarbella 02-17-2014 02:06 PM

I will be trying my hand for my first ever 5k walk.I am a little worried about the plantar fascitis,if it is too much I will stop.I don't plan to refuel with carbs.

Will see how it all goes.

elliot 02-18-2014 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peace (Post 16802769)
This is great as I am trying to train for a marathon myself. I am new to running but I did do a half marathon in CO 3 years ago. Pretty much, low carb worked for me.
We will see. Good luck and keep us posted!

If you are planning on doing the marathon on LC, then we could maybe learn from each other. :D It would be great to have someone to share the growing pains with.
Do you run now? I just did my first longest 10k run this jan 24th (took 5 days to recover) but I'm slow at 7kph. For the next 2-3 months I will be trying to increase my speed and also try to become comfortable doing the 10k so that my recovery after it is almost immediate. Then doing long runs or run walk in order to keep moving for 3hrs+ every fortnight.
Whats your plan like?

elliot 02-18-2014 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowcarbella (Post 16803697)
I will be trying my hand for my first ever 5k walk.I am a little worried about the plantar fascitis,if it is too much I will stop.I don't plan to refuel with carbs.
Will see how it all goes.

Bella, you'll definitely be able to do a 5k without any carbs or even breakfast. Start slow and work your way up. Be careful not to do three things:
1. Increase ur mileage every day that u workout. Don't do that. Instead increase ur mileage only once a week...preferably on your long walk/run day and take the next day off.
2. Don't have the same intensity everyday either. Vary your intensity, so for example if have 3 workouts a week, one can be a brisk walk day, one can be a slight jog walk day and the last slower but longer walk day.
3. Make sure you don't take huge strides and come crashing on your heels when you try to walk fast. This will hurt ur heels, can cause plantar fascitis and its unnatural. Take short steps with higher frequency. If you want to get faster... like a slight jog, shorten ur strides again such that ur feet land below you, bend ur knees slightly and lean forward at the hips slightly. In such a way that ur body's forward movement causes ur feet to come up running behind u to keep up.
Taking shorter strides while jogging will help u land mid foot and ur form. Taking normal strides (not long) while walking will keep ur heels safe.

Why I say these, I have done all 3 above and borne the consequences. Tendonitis/plantar fascists on left foot (docs couldn't decide which one I had) due to no 3. & no 1. combined in 2012... and light metatarsal fracture (bones on top of right foot ended up developing light micro cracks due to no 2.) in 2013.

lowcarbella 02-18-2014 01:19 PM

Thanks Elliot,I am completely new to running so these tips help.My friends signed up for a race and I joined them on a whim.I am not really serious but wanted to get the feel,so I am allowing myself to stop if it is too much at any point.

I am looking into Chi running later.( a sort of technique that helps prevent injury)


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