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Old 11-18-2013, 12:14 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Bellesmom View Post
Well... My last post was on the Stillman's board on 5-16-2012. On 5-19-2012, there was a tragedy in my family and I have been stuck til the present.

I have always done well with low carb through the years and I love following Jimmy Moore's podcast. I have studied this plan and I know it it is a good fit for me! I do not now where to purchase the ketometer or the strips so if anybody has a link, could you post? I guess I can look it up but I need inexpensive!

I think this plan is similar to Stillman's except upping the fat and finding the ketone 'sweet spot'. I found, when doing Stillman's in the past, if I added avocado, I would lose a little faster.

Here's the deal: I need encouragement guys! I know the holidays are right around the corner but I do not want to be stuck in a rut for another year and a half!!!

I want today to be my first day! I do not want to trick myself by saying I am going to start tomorrow! Confession: I had a glass of sweet tea. But every MINUTE counts when you are starting something new.

Thanks for letting me ramble and good luck to you guys. I am encouraged when I read your successes!
If you eat for your health, you will lose the weight. I have found that patience is important. Don't expect to lose quickly except at first. Also cheats always slow down your progress.
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Old 11-18-2013, 02:11 PM   #62
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Hi Ice. Hope you don't mind me jumping in. One of the reasons that your stix may not turn colour is that when you are likely producing less of the type of ketones those stix measure and more of the type of ketone that blood meter measures. These are the ones that are best and I think demonstrate keto adaption.

According to your numbers, (i.e. 20g or less carbs, and 65g protein, you are consuming something like 120+g fat) which should be good (depending on variables like height, gender, age etc.).

I would suggest that you are in ketosis and the adaption phase is just a bit longer and more difficult for you. If you read any of Peter Attia's blog on his personal experience, you will see that some people do have more difficulties in becoming adapted and staying there but can and do with some fiddling.

Jump all you like. I'm frustrated regarding the weight loss, but have improvements in other areas.

My average numbers for this past seven days are -

CALS avg 1,656
FAT avg 150.1g
PROTEIN avg 67.7g
CARBS avg 10.7

percentages were - 81.6 F/ 16.4 P/ 2.6 C

I gained 1 pound..... in the seven days
My fasting morning blood Ketones were .3, 1.0, .8, .7, .6, .5 & .4
Most evening BK were at least 1.0

I have No thyroid or gallbladder so I'm wondering how that plays into my being able to achieve ketosis and release these 70 pounds. I've been so good about tracking, following the guidelines, etc, and then gain a pound.......it makes me crazier than I am. Today is my 37th day of NK but was VLC the month before.
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Old 11-18-2013, 03:25 PM   #63
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Ice, I believe the advice is if you are not losing and have moderated your protein sufficiently and are low enough in carbs, the next thing to do is to lower your fat. This is according to Dr. Phinney.
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Old 11-18-2013, 03:50 PM   #64
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Ice, I believe the advice is if you are not losing and have moderated your protein sufficiently and are low enough in carbs, the next thing to do is to lower your fat. This is according to Dr. Phinney.
I just checked my log. Here are the FAT stats from the previous 3 weeks.

Previous week's FAT average was - 125g (.5 gain)
The week before that was - 113g (1 lb gain)
Week before that was - 122g (.5 lb loss)

Last edited by Ice; 11-18-2013 at 03:56 PM..
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Old 11-18-2013, 04:20 PM   #65
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I just checked my log. Here are the FAT stats from the previous 3 weeks.

Previous week's FAT average was - 125g (.5 gain)
The week before that was - 113g (1 lb gain)
Week before that was - 122g (.5 lb loss)
I am giving this some thought but while doing so, I can't remember if you have stated what your current weight is and what your goals are along with other pertinent details?
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Old 11-18-2013, 05:38 PM   #66
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Current Wt 202. Ideal Wt should be about 143. I'm 59 yrs young, 5' 5" tall. Gallbladder removed in 1976, lost my thyroid in 1991. Have some neurological issues (autoimmune).

Set my goals at 1,500, Protein at 65g and Carbs under 20, fill the rest with FAT. Began NK on 13 Oct.

FIRST wk - Cals avg 1,226, lost 6.5 lbs of water wt
SECOND wk - Cals avg 1,420, lost .5 lbs
THIRD wk - 1,419, gained 1.0 lbs
FOURTH wk - 1,478, gained .5 lbs
FIFTH wk - 1,656, gained 1 lb, was very hungry this week, increased fat to help hunger so consumed more calories
THIS wk - so far 1,400 avg, up 1.5 lbs in past two days.

thanks for your help.
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Old 11-18-2013, 06:51 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice View Post
Current Wt 202. Ideal Wt should be about 143. I'm 59 yrs young, 5' 5" tall. Gallbladder removed in 1976, lost my thyroid in 1991. Have some neurological issues (autoimmune).

Set my goals at 1,500, Protein at 65g and Carbs under 20, fill the rest with FAT. Began NK on 13 Oct.
Based on your stats and goals and assuming you're not exercising a great deal, my ketosis calculator returns the following numbers for weight loss:

Calories: 1380
Fat: 117 grams
Protein: 65 grams
Carbs: 20 grams

You haven't been eating a huge amount of extra fat or calories, so you're not really gaining weight - it's just a water fluctuation. Your body can go up or down 4 lbs. in a day just from water weight.

Most women who start low-carbing lose a big amount at first from the water loss, then taper off over the next month. As your fat cells start emptying out, your body is inclined to hold on to water to keep them filled up. It can take 4-6 months for this effect to go away, during which time it may seem as though you're not really losing. You're better off ignoring the scale and measuring your body to see if you're really getting smaller.

Stick with the plan - you will see progress in the long run.
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Old 11-18-2013, 07:23 PM   #68
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Based on your stats and goals and assuming you're not exercising a great deal, my ketosis calculator returns the following numbers for weight loss:

Calories: 1380
Fat: 117 grams
Protein: 65 grams
Carbs: 20 grams

You haven't been eating a huge amount of extra fat or calories, so you're not really gaining weight - it's just a water fluctuation. Your body can go up or down 4 lbs. in a day just from water weight.

Most women who start low-carbing lose a big amount at first from the water loss, then taper off over the next month. As your fat cells start emptying out, your body is inclined to hold on to water to keep them filled up. It can take 4-6 months for this effect to go away, during which time it may seem as though you're not really losing. You're better off ignoring the scale and measuring your body to see if you're really getting smaller.

Stick with the plan - you will see progress in the long run.
Okay, I'll reduce the fat and see where the calories end. I was thinking of giving up the dairy as I haven't eaten any for several years until I decided to go NK. I think it's messing with my skin and ears again, so thought maybe consuming other fats that aren't dairy might help a bit. Thank you for taking the time to help me. It's greatly appreciated!
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Old 11-18-2013, 07:35 PM   #69
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I agree with MerrKate.
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Old 11-18-2013, 07:37 PM   #70
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I agree with MerrKate.
Thanks for your help too!! I just reset my goals on the spark tracker and calculated tomorrows spread. We'll see how it goes.
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Old 11-19-2013, 05:40 PM   #71
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well, my numbers for today were -

Cals 1,342
Fat 115
Protein 70
Carbs 6

My morning BK was .8 but my 2 hr after meal BK dropped to .6 My evening BK should be a higher number. This is all so crazy.....lol. I will continue on my new goals for a few weeks and see what happens. I did get a bit higher on my protein today. Today's fat was 77.12% of my calories and I had been in the low 80's.
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Old 11-19-2013, 06:55 PM   #72
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I had a harder time keeping my calories down today. ToM is around the corner and all I want to eat is chocolate and baked goodies. I did manage to make my protein goal for the first time this week, so that's a plus, but I never go to the meat first.

L: Chef salad with bleu cheese dressing
D: Pepper steak with pesto jack cheese, chocolate bark
S: Coffee, 2 pieces LC pumpkin cranberry bread

Cals: 1,746 Fat: 144 Protein: 74 Net Carbs: 23
73/17/10
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Old 11-20-2013, 03:03 AM   #73
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Morning!

I have rediscovered sardines!!! On a whim I bought a can of them yesterday in olive oil and had them with the oil over some green salad and just a sprinkle of seasalt... DELICIOUS! I had forgotten all about them, and they are perfect for LCHF! So I'm having them again today.

Had a yummy breakfast of my usual 3oz creme fraiche with almond butter and EVCO, which definitely keeps hunger at bay till late lunchtime. Already looking forward to my sardines later on! Dinner depends on my hunger, but will probably be scrambled eggs with a little feta cheese and some saurkraut on the side.

I'm measuring BK again on Friday, I've decided that the strips are too expensive for every day, and I pretty much know I'm in ketosis (all the signs are there) so I will measure once a week only.
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Old 11-20-2013, 06:09 AM   #74
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Sardines!! Love them. My favorite way to eat them is mushed up with a bit of onion and homemade mayo. And then loaded onto pork rinds. My only issue is most of the sardines are packed in crappy oil. I can find some that are in olive oil but they are pretty expensive. I will keep looking.

I only measure BK now when I am trying different macros or foods. I can definetely see a difference with some stuff although I am almost always above 1.0 mmol., although recently was .9 after too much protein in a sitting the day before. I wish the strips were really cheap because it would be more telling to test in the way that one can test b.g. levels after meals and such.
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Old 11-21-2013, 06:36 AM   #75
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Cathy, I tried your sardine recipe last night (added some cream cheese too) and it was amazing. I put it on sliced radishes. Thank you.

Tested BK this morning at they were down to 0.4 from 0.7 yesterday (before i was hovering around .8-.9). I am wondering if it's the xylitol and stevia I put in fat bombs I made a few days ago. Anyone else get knocked out of ketosis by those?
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Old 11-21-2013, 07:30 AM   #76
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I can't do artificial sweeteners, they cause me to have bad cravings for a couple of days. However, I am testing stevia. Have had a couple of cappuccinos in the evening using stevia and that seems to not cause me issues. Had one last night and going to pay attention to how I feel today, but so far so good.

I'm VLC, maybe 10-15 grams a day so I don't bother checking ketone levels very often. And haven't bought a blood ketone meter. I might do that sometime if I hit a plateau for a long while despite keeping my carbs so low. I test for urine ketones maybe once every couple of weeks now and I'm always in high ketosis.

You might try just using stevia without the xylitol. (FYI...you are aware that xylitol is deadly for dogs, even in tiny doses? Just in case you have dogs.)
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Old 11-21-2013, 08:01 AM   #77
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Thanks for the feedback. I'll try dropping the xylitol today and see if i can get BK back up. And yes, thanks for the reminder about xylitol for pets. I have a cat... i wonder how it affects them
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Old 11-21-2013, 08:37 AM   #78
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What kinds of foods are mostly fat? I seem to stay in the range of 70% Fat, 27 % Protein and 3% Carbs. I cannot seem to get the fat content out of the 70% range. I'm new to this woe and wondering what I need to do to get on track. THANKS.
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Old 11-21-2013, 10:34 AM   #79
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Hello and welcome katligon!

It is important to note that n.k. is really about controlling carbs, protein and fat in the actual grams in what you are consuming. Generally the ratios will take care of themselves.

Here is a link to an old thread that has tons of ideas for higher fat foods.

High fat, low to moderate protein recipes?
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Old 11-21-2013, 10:47 PM   #80
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I'm back!

I took a break from NK, and just ate primal for awhile during the summer (with more carbs and less fat). I'm ready to get back on the NK wagon, to a certain extent, simply because it really seemed to help with my energy levels, moods, and pms symptoms.

Heavier periods with more cramps have been creeping up on me since incorporating more carbs (sorry, I didn't count).

Additionally, I've started strength training and crossfit, so my experience this time may be different from last time.

Anyway, my goal isn't to lose weight per se. While I may believe my body could still easily stand to lose 10 lbs, my body seems to disagree. It likes the weight I am at, so I won't argue. Having been morbidly obese at one time, I'll take what I can get! So, again, I am doing NK simply because of the health benefits (inc. mood benefits).

One thing I want to try differently from last time is a carb refeed every 7 days. Molly Galbraith writes about this a bit on her blog.

I really think this was lacking for me last time, as I would have days where I would even feel like I couldn't get enough fat - insatiable. I plan on doing a carb refeed every Saturday.

Maybe someone else can try it with me .... perhaps if you've plateaued? Instead of lowering protein even more, try refeeding carbs.... although I can't really recommend this, since I still have to really try it myself.

I do have Phinney and Volek's book, and am quite disappointed that they don't address this option.
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Old 11-21-2013, 11:18 PM   #81
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Hi Unna!!!!! Nice to see you back!

Let us know how you get on with the carb refeeds. I won't be joining you though, I turn into a monster on too many carbs...
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Old 11-22-2013, 12:25 AM   #82
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Mimosa, Thanks! And I completely understand the carb monster! I'll also have to watch to see if the carbs mess up my hunger cues.

Another thing I forgot to mention, which I am going to implement is: no overeating - not even on the right foods.

I was just reading a scientific article about the insulinogenic response that comes from the act of overeating itself, regardless of the kinds of foods you've consumed. I'm going to "mindfully" try to stop right before I feel full.

Because my "full" feeling is probably a sign that I've overeaten. This may not be the case with everyone.... but my full signal seems to be a bit broken.
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Old 11-22-2013, 12:36 AM   #83
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Welcome back, Unna! Glad to hear you've maintained pretty well, even with more carbs. I tried a weekly Carb Nite thing in October and found it reversed all the progress I'd made in August and September. :/ YYMV - I know there are plenty of other people for whom it worked.
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Old 11-22-2013, 06:44 AM   #84
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One thing I want to try differently from last time is a carb refeed every 7 days. Molly Galbraith writes about this a bit on her blog.
Welcome back! I recently came back too. I hear you on the mood stuff. NK really improves my mild bipolar "tendencies."

I'm interested in hearing more about your carb refeed. Mind sharing your plan? I looked on Maggie's blog but couldn't find much about it.
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Old 11-22-2013, 07:57 AM   #85
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Mimosa, Thanks! And I completely understand the carb monster! I'll also have to watch to see if the carbs mess up my hunger cues.

Another thing I forgot to mention, which I am going to implement is: no overeating - not even on the right foods.

I was just reading a scientific article about the insulinogenic response that comes from the act of overeating itself, regardless of the kinds of foods you've consumed. I'm going to "mindfully" try to stop right before I feel full.

Because my "full" feeling is probably a sign that I've overeaten. This may not be the case with everyone.... but my full signal seems to be a bit broken.
I agree with this. Getting too full at meals does affect my weight, even if my total calories are low for the day.
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Old 11-22-2013, 05:25 PM   #86
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I have be in Ketosis doing LCHF since October 19th. Am a type 2 diabetic was on metformin and BP meds. for the last 3 weeks have been off all my meds. with a fasting BS of around 5.2 -5.6 and BP running around 128\79 with out meds. Weight is down 7 lb.
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Old 11-22-2013, 06:11 PM   #87
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I have be in Ketosis doing LCHF since October 19th. Am a type 2 diabetic was on metformin and BP meds. for the last 3 weeks have been off all my meds. with a fasting BS of around 5.2 -5.6 and BP running around 12879 with out meds. Weight is down 7 lb.
Great Job
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Old 11-23-2013, 12:14 AM   #88
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MerryKate: Thanks for sharing your experience with carb refeeding. It could also be that I won't like it.

But I had one issue with NK before spring began, and it was that I became insatiable even on fat. I didn't journal about it, so I don't remember the details exactly. What I do remember is I had taken a trip to America, which lasted from Feb to March. I think I ate mostly NK while I was there, as best as I could anyway. The week I returned to Germany, I began eating all my favorite NK foods again.

I remember feeling extremely bloated, constipated, and insatiable. Now, this could have very well been caused by jet lag, which is extremely difficult when one flies East. It takes at least two weeks to reset the body clock.

Instead of really looking into the issue, I just decided I would take a break from NK. I had planned to eat more fresh fruit and veggies during the spring and summer anyway (eating seasonal). If I remember correctly, eating more fruits and root vegetables seemed to help me out then and I started feeling better.

But, over the spring and summer up until now, I've noticed:
1. decreased energy
2. neutral to negative moods
3. increasingly heavier periods with more cramps

Also, winter is starting, and NK is a great seasonal diet for winter.

Since I now do Crossfit twice a week at a box, strength training twice a week, and take regular strolls and jogs, I think the carbs will be directly imported to my muscles and not turned into fat.... well, so my theory goes!

Also, my goals are not to lose weight necessarily, but:
1. to feel the amazing, optimistic mood again.... I hate to admit this, but I lost my wonderful optimism when I went off NK (keep in mind, I was still eating healthy, only fresh whole foods and occasional oatmeal).
2. to feel the energy again... My body seems to respond exceptionally well to NK
3. to feel satiated / not think about eating so much
4. to do a strict pull-up

Oh, so while the extra carbs seemed to help in the beginning of last spring, I started to develope constant hunger pangs - resembling those that I had when I was obese. Food was always on my mind.

Since I went back on strict NK 4 days ago, I've already noticed my constant hunger feelings have subsided substantially. I firmly believe what Taubes writes in his book Good Calories, Bad Calories: if we are hungry all the time, it is not because of a psychologically 'perverted' appetite (lack of willpower), but because we are starving internally.

One other important factor in my life has changed dramatically, leading to better sleep and well-being: I quit a job that gave me great anxiety, stress, thus making me sick often. I now have a career that I love, where I feel manageable stress. So, I'm excited to try out NK now that I have way less stress to see if it does positively effect my body composition.

With my new career, I also have more time to look into recipes and experiment with cooking. Today I am planning on doing a sauteed kale dish with tahini dressing. Oh, and this time I'm going to make sure I eat my 20-30 carbs per day. Last time I remember having days with only 5-10 carbs (basically zero carb).

Anyway, I just love reading everyone's experiences with NK on this chat. It is such an interesting diet, and I believe each one of us has to listen to our bodies to find out how it can best be implemented.
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Old 11-23-2013, 12:25 AM   #89
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Green: "itsthewooo" also writes in detail about how eating in an NK style helps her depressive tendencies. Have you read her blog?

And Molly Galbraith doesn't provide any extra information on why exactly she recommends a ketogenic diet with a 7 day carb refeed. I sort of think it is a standard recommendation that trainers give their clients.... they don't actually have a physiological explanation to back it up.

To be honest, I feel the "7 day" is somewhat arbitrary. Just because humans use the unit "7" to measure a week, does not mean the human body cares about the number 7 at all. I am going to play it more by ear and do a carb refeed when I feel it to be necessary, and it will also be post workout. I find carbs post workout are EXTREMELY different from carbs that are eaten without any physical activity. The latter makes me feel foggy and tired.

So, my carb refeed may be every 7 days, but it also may be every 10 days... we'll see.
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Old 11-23-2013, 12:27 AM   #90
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I agree with this. Getting too full at meals does affect my weight, even if my total calories are low for the day.
Carolyn
Carolyn: interesting that you've also came to this conclusion! I find this topic is not often discussed on the forum. But, maybe it should be....

I mean, we could be defeating all out low carb efforts by overeating, producing insulin anyway (and storing fat).
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