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-   -   Fat Fast or Stillmans? (http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/nutritional-ketosis-high-fat-low-carb/815984-fat-fast-stillmans.html)

itsmeshelly01 10-25-2013 01:25 PM

Fat Fast or Stillmans?
 
So, for pretty quick weight loss what do you think is better?
I am getting married on the 12th of Nov and i got my dress in the mail yesterday. It fits but is just slightly snug.
I figure if i can drop 5 to maybe 8 lbs i will fit into better. I dont want to be uncomfortable you know!!

So do you guys think its easier to drop weight eating more fat or almost all protein?

I know that Maria from her blog says you can do a protein/fat diet for a fewe days and lose pretty quick but she doesnt give any info on it. She wants you to buy her program or her books i guess.

I know some of you have had luck with fat fasts but what about Stillmans? I kow it is basically lean protein and no fat at all.
I am going to be in a major caloric deficit with either one. Which do you think would be better for quick loss and satiation?
I hate being too hungry. I get crazy when I get really hungry. :mad:

Thank you guys!! I'm leaving for a cruise a few days after I get married and I know I will put back anything I lose but at least my dress will fit great on the big day!!! :) :) :)

Checkoutchick 10-25-2013 05:02 PM

I can't comment on Stillmans as I'm not familiar with it.
The FF however is something Dr Atkins recommended for some of his most metabolically resistant patients only. Some of us, myself included, have done FFs in order to kickstart a Plateau. It certainly works a treat :up:

lowcarbella 10-25-2013 05:20 PM

How quickly u lose depends on what kind of diet you were following until now.If you have been LCing and doing induction,Fat fast may be a good choice.Going straight from a SAD to a Fat fast can be rough.You can also do a modified fat fast which allows 1200 cals with a little more choices.I have never felt too much hunger on these,however I go crazy hungry on low fat low calories.I will never go on them again.
however considering you have only a few days,will toning your body with light weights and workouts be an option.
Eating too much protein casues glucogenesis(sp?),so I wouldn't go for Stillmans although some people have success with them.It all boils down to what kind of metabolism you have.

itsmeshelly01 10-26-2013 05:27 AM

I dont really know how my metabolism is anymore. I have been eating low carb for years and years. I used to weigh 275lbs. I have kept my weight off for over 8 yrs. I lost the weight using low carb. I have played with upping carbs a few times over the years but never really high carb. So my body is definitely used to eating low carb. I got down super skinny a few years. Too skinny. I was doing some things that werent great to my body.
It took me a while to realy see i was too skinny. I finally did and started lifting weights and eating again. I put weight on so dang fast and muscle. Well, then i turned 40 and it seems like i am just gaining weight just because. It is so frustrating. I have literally put on about 15lbs in the year and a half. And i dont know why. I eat primal/paleo low carb. I dont hardly ever eat processed foods. I eat a very clean diet. I usually never go over 1500 calories per day. Most days way lower than that. I lift weights, kickbox, circuit train. I was running but hurt my knee pretty bad and havent ran in about a month. i walk at 30 min everyday. On the weekend i do a longer walk.

I'm just really frustrated and really want to lost a few lbs before i get married so bad. I dont know if my thyroid is jacked up, if my metabolism is just jacked up, if its hormonal or what. i'm just frustrated.

i think you guys are both right about the fat fast. Im sure it would keep me more satisfied.

I;m thinking of doing basically eggs, tuna, coconut oil and mayo next week.
thank you guys.

cfine 10-26-2013 05:34 PM

I would be more inclined to do the fat fast.

christina6281 10-27-2013 06:33 AM

I am on day 7 of the FF and I have lost 8 lbs....I did have a binge prior and went up 5 lbs so I am back down those plus 3 more so I am happy with it. I have been eating deviled eggs, cream cheese, pepperoni, fat bombs, and I drink 1 cup of bullet proof coffee in the morning. My fat % is between 81-88. I have no idea how to get it to 90% unless you eat nothing but butter all day long.

Checkoutchick 10-27-2013 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by christina6281 (Post 16659874)
I am on day 7 of the FF and I have lost 8 lbs....I did have a binge prior and went up 5 lbs so I am back down those plus 3 more so I am happy with it. I have been eating deviled eggs, cream cheese, pepperoni, fat bombs, and I drink 1 cup of bullet proof coffee in the morning. My fat % is between 81-88. I have no idea how to get it to 90% unless you eat nothing but butter all day long.


Wow, seven days FF, that's impressive :notwrthy:
I'm from Germany originally, now living in the UK. How is LC/NK on the continent? :dunno: It's still considered as very unhealthy over here :hyst:

I've done a couple of FFs, fat% 82-88. Recipes mainly from D.Carpenders FF book. :yummy::up:

christina6281 10-27-2013 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Checkoutchick (Post 16660032)
Wow, seven days FF, that's impressive :notwrthy:
I'm from Germany originally, now living in the UK. How is LC/NK on the continent? :dunno: It's still considered as very unhealthy over here :hyst:

I've done a couple of FFs, fat% 82-88. Recipes mainly from D.Carpenders FF book. :yummy::up:

I am not from Germany, my husband is in the army so we have lived here for 3 years. We are going back to the States soon.

itsmeshelly01 10-27-2013 05:02 PM

How many calories are you eating per day Christina?

christina6281 10-27-2013 11:03 PM

1st day was 925, 2nd was 990, 3rd was 1230, 4th was 1270, 5th was 1175, 6th was 1665, 7th was 1305. I am down 2 more pounds from yesterday, so I have gone from 161-151. As you can see I couldn't stick to the 1000 calories a day but it has worked anyways. I would say just keep your fat high and try to keep your protein lower. It is really easy to over do it on your protein.

Mimosa23 10-28-2013 03:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Checkoutchick (Post 16660032)
Wow, seven days FF, that's impressive :notwrthy:
I'm from Germany originally, now living in the UK. How is LC/NK on the continent? :dunno: It's still considered as very unhealthy over here :hyst:

I've done a couple of FFs, fat% 82-88. Recipes mainly from D.Carpenders FF book. :yummy::up:

Sorry for the threadjack: NDR had a programme regarding Ketogenic diets recently, so maybe things are slooowly turning around... My feeling is that 99% of all Germans still believe in their holy bread...

ETA: here's the link (in German) to a summary of the programme:
http://www.ndr.de/ratgeber/gesundhei...ehrung101.html


As for FF or Stillmans: my vote is for a FF!

Jennafun 10-28-2013 06:35 AM

Hi Shelly- my metabolism is stalled too and I'm trying to get off 10-15 lbs. I am also active. I tried the fat fast for 3 days with a net zero loss. It's possible that I wasn't eating enough fat ~100g/day. I was also very low energy on it even though I have been clean low carb for 5mo. I'm going to try Stillmans now just to see if that will get the scale moving down...

lowcarbella 10-28-2013 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jennafun (Post 16660857)
Hi Shelly- my metabolism is stalled too and I'm trying to get off 10-15 lbs. I am also active. I tried the fat fast for 3 days with a net zero loss. It's possible that I wasn't eating enough fat ~100g/day. I was also very low energy on it even though I have been clean low carb for 5mo. I'm going to try Stillmans now just to see if that will get the scale moving down...

Hi JennaFun,may I ask what is your height?maybe you are at your goal weight?

Its interesting that you didn't lose on a fat fast.what was the menu like?

The only time I didn't lose on a very low carb diet is when I was at my goal weight of 150.Of course I didn't know at the time bcoz the BMI charts misinformed me that I should be 132 for a healthy weight.:annoyed:

but then I checked my body fat at the hands of a reputed personal trainer,and I was right around my goal weight,my LBM around 132!!!
I have more LBM than most people my height.I was also wearing loose size 2's 4s.So its better to get Body fat checked to see whats going on.
just sharing my experience.

itsmeshelly01 10-28-2013 02:12 PM

Thank you for the info guys. I dont know if i could stick with 1000 calories per day either. That might kill me unless i totally quit working out. Today i have tried not having anything but fat until lunch. It went pretty well.
I had bpc this morning, 1/2T MCT oil, 1/2T CO and 1T ghee.
I didnt eat anything until 1130a when i had a smoothie with more fat, 1/2T mct oil and 1/2T co. It also had 1T gelatin, 1/2t maca, 1 cup almond milk, 1t chia seeds and 1T instant coffee. Then i had homemade soup for lunch and ill have a snack of greek yogurt with cream cheese blended into it.
Then dinner will be an oopsie roll sandwich with tuna.

I will end up at 1350 calories
20 carbs
98 grams of fat
78 grams protein

I bet that is still too much protein huh? I dont know. I made everything for the week to keep me on track this week. I made soup, oopsie rolls, a big container of tuna with mayo and mustard and even a quiche if i want something different.

I guess we will see how it goes. I do think that this is probably more satiating than just eating protein on Stillmans. I dont think I could have eaten just 2 boiled eggs and it last me from 730am to 1130am. My tummy would have been growling.

I also did turbo jam this morning and walked 1.75 miles at lunch.
You would think i would lose something!!!

lowcarbella 10-28-2013 04:21 PM

I don't know if that fits a FF definition,but I really loved your menu.It has some really interesting ideas that I might try sometime.I have ordered some gelatin for tissue repair,now I know what to do with it.thanks

Acor 10-28-2013 05:28 PM

I'm doing a meat/egg fast right now, and my protein is lower than yours. I think for a true fat fast, you definitely would need to take the protein down a lot more. For instance, yesterday was:

Carbs: 10
Fat: 95
Protein: 64

Saturday was:

Carb: 6
Fat: 101
Protein: 53

If it works for you, though, that's the main thing! And if it doesn't, you'll have plenty of room to tweak with lower protein and higher fat.

christina6281 10-28-2013 10:50 PM

My protein grams were usually around 35 grams. One day they were 29 and one day they were 41. I was really hungry that day and ate 2 extra hard boiled eggs.

itsmeshelly01 10-29-2013 04:37 AM

I dont know how ot get my protein down that low. No soup and no yogurt i guess.
And i had tuna for dinner with oopsies.
And then i wonder about exercise. For instance yesterday i did turbo jam in the morning, walked at lunch, only ate about 1300 calories and i am up half a pound this morning.
I'm so frustrated with this.
Should i not do so much exercise while my calories are so low? maybe just the walking at lunch?
Am i hurting myself? i would think it would help me lose more because of the major calorie deficit. Im just so confused. My body just wont freaking budge. It just wants to move up and not down.

Acor can you tell me what you are eating? and are you exercising?

lowcarbella you will love making the smoothies with the gelatin or even making jello. it is so good for you. my skin has cleared up since using it all the time. I think the higher fat eating this way helps that too but the gelatin is so good for you. I use 1T per day at least. It helps make a nice thick smoothie. Sometimes my smoothis gels up so much i have to use a spoon...lol

Thank you guys.

christina6281 10-29-2013 05:09 AM

You don't get much food it seems during a FF but you just have to tell yourself it is not forever and push through. I am hardly eating today but will end my day at 1150 cals, 118g fat, 8.5g carbs, and 17.7g protein. I had BP coffee, 1 fat bomb and 1oz cream cheese already and dinner will be 2oz cream cheese and 14 slices of pepperoni. Snack later tonight will be another fat bomb Yum I love them so much.

looseal 10-29-2013 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by christina6281 (Post 16662223)
fat bomb Yum I love them so much.

Which fat bomb recipe are you using? Most sound awful to me.

christina6281 10-29-2013 06:14 AM

I use 8tb butter, 8 Tb coconut oil, 1/4-1/2 cup PB2 (depending on how peanut buttery I want them) 3-4Tb Special dark unsweetened cocoa and 1/4 cup Torani SF Hazelnut syrup. I thought they sounded gross but now that I have made them I love them. This fills 8 muffin cups and I store them in the freezer

lowcarbella 10-29-2013 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsmeshelly01 (Post 16661527)
Thank you for the info guys. I dont know if i could stick with 1000 calories per day either. That might kill me unless i totally quit working out. Today i have tried not having anything but fat until lunch. It went pretty well.
I had bpc this morning, 1/2T MCT oil, 1/2T CO and 1T ghee.
I didnt eat anything until 1130a when i had a smoothie with more fat, 1/2T mct oil and 1/2T co. It also had 1T gelatin, 1/2t maca, 1 cup almond milk, 1t chia seeds and 1T instant coffee. Then i had homemade soup for lunch and ill have a snack of greek yogurt with cream cheese blended into it.
Then dinner will be an oopsie roll sandwich with tuna.

I will end up at 1350 calories
20 carbs
98 grams of fat
78 grams protein

My take on tweaking will go like this:
sub almond milk with HWC or coconut milk
ditch the yogurt and sub with sour cream
tuna on a lettuce wrap/add some fat here

you will probably lower protein.If you need more FF ideas,here is a thread:
http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/nu...-take-2-a.html

In fact a couple of us are doing a FF right now.You can join us.

Everyday weight fluctuations are normal,and since you workout,you could also have gained LBM.

What brand of gelatin do you use?

lowcarbella 10-29-2013 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by christina6281 (Post 16662223)
You don't get much food it seems during a FF but you just have to tell yourself it is not forever and push through. I am hardly eating today but will end my day at 1150 cals, 118g fat, 8.5g carbs, and 17.7g protein. I had BP coffee, 1 fat bomb and 1oz cream cheese already and dinner will be 2oz cream cheese and 14 slices of pepperoni. Snack later tonight will be another fat bomb Yum I love them so much.

I wasn't hungry at all,in fact i forgot my last two feedings yesterday,not hungry at all.I am in ketosis today,after the initial flu,I have so much clarity today.Downside is my clothes smell keto,I feel like taking a shower every few hours:dunno:

i love fat bombs too.they have replaced my candy/sugar fix cravings.

christina6281 10-29-2013 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowcarbella (Post 16662418)
I wasn't hungry at all,in fact i forgot my last two feedings yesterday,not hungry at all.I am in ketosis today,after the initial flu,I have so much clarity today.Downside is my clothes smell keto,I feel like taking a shower every few hours:dunno:

i love fat bombs too.they have replaced my candy/sugar fix cravings.

I am not really hungry either but I have a really bad food addiction and I think about food every sec of the day. I wish I could be the type of person who just forgets to eat. So it is a mental thing for me, I may not be hungry but I don't care I still want to eat. :annoyed:

looseal 10-29-2013 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by christina6281 (Post 16662313)
I use
8tb butter,
8 Tb coconut oil,
1/4-1/2 cup PB2 (depending on how peanut buttery I want them)
3-4Tb Special dark unsweetened cocoa and
1/4 cup Torani SF Hazelnut syrup.
This fills 8 muffin cups and I store them in the freezer

Thanks, I'll try this.

Acor 10-29-2013 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsmeshelly01 (Post 16662203)
Acor can you tell me what you are eating? and are you exercising?

Of course! These are the various things I've kept made up in the fridge to make selections easy: steak, chicken "nuggets" dredged in egg and crushed pork rinds (I dip in sour cream), deviled eggs, pork tenderloin, bacon, hamburgers, and the best quality hot dogs I can find. One thing that helps me is having everything sliced up and ready to heat. For instance, the pork tenderloin was cut into slices as soon as it was done, same with the steak. I have things cooked a little less done than I'd actually like so that microwaving doesn't over cook them.

I basically took my normal low-carb way of eating and eliminated all fruits (usually eat a lot of fruit, so I miss this the most), all cheese, all nuts, and almost all veggies. The only veggies I've allowed are occasional avocado pieces, canned pumpkin for make the occasional pumpkin "shake", and a few good dill pickle slices here and there.

For fat, I use plenty of mayo in my deviled eggs (also like the on scrambled eggs because it reminds me off when I used to eat egg sandwiches on crappy white bread), I use heavy whipping cream in my coffee and in the pumpkin shake, and I flavor a lot of my meats with butter.

This kind of eating is sort of a "tweak" to accelerate your weightloss, although not as strict as the fat fast you're talking about. With any of these tweaks, we'll unfortunately have to give up some of the things that are on our normal menu. In my case, the fruit, cheese, etc. In your case, if you want to do a fat fast, you'll need to be even stricter with what you allow yourself to eat, keeping carbs and protein to the bare minimum. Meat and egg fast can be done longer term, but I think fat fasts are supposed to be kept shorter term, maybe 3-5 days. Trying to remember what I've read about them, I think that's about right.

I'm going to interrupt my meat/egg fast tomorrow or Thursday to do a 1 or 2 day long fat fast. If you like, I can post the things I have made up to eat during that time.

It's my understanding that exercise can cause the body to retain water - it isn't true weight gain. That said, I think you might have a harder time exercising during the days you do fat fasting since you'll be taking in less calories and could have less energy.

What do you think about measuring instead of weighing? The scale weight doesn't really matter for your goal anyway, you're wanting to get into a particular dress, so I think you might be more motivated and less freaked out if you measured instead. I measure my waist, hips, and upper arms once a week, and I don't think I've had a week yet where at least one of those measurements hasn't gone down.

Sorry, just looked back over this and realized I wrote a novel. And did I even answer your question? I've been typing so long I can't remember. :laugh:

itsmeshelly01 10-30-2013 04:04 AM

Yes you did Acor. Thank you very much. I have really low carb before but pretty much ate whatever meat i wanted to keep from being too hungry. But this fat fast and keeping the protein low is a new one for me.
i really appreciate you sharing what you are eating.
Christina thank you for sharing whta you are eating too.
Thank you lowcarbella. You are right. I am eating too much protein. I love yogurt though. And i think i still kinda get over calories. I look at sour cream and it has so much.

An update though, my hunger if finally totally gone!! Yesterday i ate about 1000 calories. I just wasnt hungry at all. I have been doing lowcarb for many many years and never got the satiation from eating low carb. Even when in ketosis. But i have always done the unlimited protein thing with low carb. Which has been the norm i think. this concept of high fat, mod protein, and low carb is pretty new. And i think it does work it seems. I am finally experiencing the satiation. I love it. It is weird though because i have major food issues. So i think about food all the time. Constantly, i hate it. So even though im thinking about im trying ot really follow my gut. Yesterday i thought about food but i didnt eat.
I love that. I am trying not to weigh today. I just need to leave the scale alone for a few days.
And i think eating this low calorie right now i will watch my exercise and not do anything too strenuous, especially lifting weights. I have enough muscle that im hoping i dont lose any and if i do lose a little it was just be a very small amount. I am taking powder glutamine to help with that. I hope it does. I had my walk yesterday and thats all i did. I think i will do a video this morning. maybe some kickboxing. Its going to be raining here all day so no walk at lunch today. :( :(

thank you guys so much.
Oh hey, i dont think i can post the link here. But if you use coconut oil and chia seeds you guys need to go to nutiva coconut oil's website and check out the tuesday deal. It is over this morning at 9am. It is unreal!!!! I had to get it.

Have a good day guys!!

Checkoutchick 10-30-2013 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mimosa23 (Post 16660665)
Sorry for the threadjack: NDR had a programme regarding Ketogenic diets recently, so maybe things are slooowly turning around... My feeling is that 99% of all Germans still believe in their holy bread...

ETA: here's the link (in German) to a summary of the programme:
Wie ketogene Ernährung helfen kann | NDR.de - Ratgeber - Gesundheit - Krebs


As for FF or Stillmans: my vote is for a FF!

Thank you for the link, I'll check it out :shake: and there was me thinking LC was becoming more popular over there :hyst:

Jennafun 11-02-2013 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowcarbella (Post 16660897)
Hi JennaFun,may I ask what is your height?maybe you are at your goal weight?

Its interesting that you didn't lose on a fat fast.what was the menu like?

The only time I didn't lose on a very low carb diet is when I was at my goal weight of 150.Of course I didn't know at the time bcoz the BMI charts misinformed me that I should be 132 for a healthy weight.:annoyed:

but then I checked my body fat at the hands of a reputed personal trainer,and I was right around my goal weight,my LBM around 132!!!
I have more LBM than most people my height.I was also wearing loose size 2's 4s.So its better to get Body fat checked to see whats going on.
just sharing my experience.

Hi Bella

I'm 5 feet so no I need to lose. 115 would be ideal but I'm shooting for 120 at this point. The fat fast might have failed because my gallbladder sucks at metabolizing fat. I get a lot if diarrhea / stomach gurgling/ bloat which seems to cause inflammation & subsequent gain.

Who knows... I'm still trying the low carb approach.

lovetoknit 11-02-2013 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsmeshelly01 (Post 16658353)
So, for pretty quick weight loss what do you think is better?
I am getting married on the 12th of Nov and i got my dress in the mail yesterday. It fits but is just slightly snug.
I figure if i can drop 5 to maybe 8 lbs i will fit into better. I dont want to be uncomfortable you know!!

So do you guys think its easier to drop weight eating more fat or almost all protein?

I know that Maria from her blog says you can do a protein/fat diet for a fewe days and lose pretty quick but she doesnt give any info on it. She wants you to buy her program or her books i guess.

I know some of you have had luck with fat fasts but what about Stillmans? I kow it is basically lean protein and no fat at all.
I am going to be in a major caloric deficit with either one. Which do you think would be better for quick loss and satiation?
I hate being too hungry. I get crazy when I get really hungry. :mad:

Thank you guys!! I'm leaving for a cruise a few days after I get married and I know I will put back anything I lose but at least my dress will fit great on the big day!!! :) :) :)


I find that too much protein makes me hungry. Since you want to lose just a few pounds quickly, you might try eating eggs and green vegetables for a few days. Maybe 6 eggs a day and cooked spinach with a little butter on it at each meal. It worked for me when I was young.
Carolyn


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