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Old 11-03-2013, 04:39 PM   #31
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I use MCT oil in cold slushie kefir shakes. It doesn't turn chunky like the coconut oil does. I actually like to use virgin coconut oil in my key lime yogurt BECAUSE it turns to chunks; I drizzle it in while stirring and it solidifies into little slivers of coconut flavor.
I tried using MCT with my yogurt but it gave me liquid gas. maybe I just used too much that day.

I'm doing a rogue HCG plan and eating MCT oil with my meals to keep my hands and feet from feeling cold.

I use coconut oil on my skin. I recently made a lotion with coconut oil, beeswax and magnesium oil.

I made a mayo with coconut oil; once it got cold I couldn't chip it except with fork. I'm gonna try again with MCT Oil. I'm copying down that recipe up there to try.
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Old 11-03-2013, 04:44 PM   #32
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I have been using the stick blender technique since I saw it on YouTube and it's great.

So why did it flop the two times I used Pompein olive oil?

I don't know, but I will buy the other and try again.

No avocado oil at our Costco. sob.....
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Old 11-06-2013, 05:43 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by AnnetteW View Post
I'm heading to costco today and will look for it, thanks.

~~~~~~~

The last 2 times I've made mayo, I've had flops. I used a different brand of olive oil (Pompein) rather than the Bertolli. Has anyone noticed issues with different oils? I can't afford to have the flops. And I thought I had become the mayo queen, and now this? Ugh.
Did you know that there is a way to fix it when it flops?
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Old 11-06-2013, 12:18 PM   #34
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Did you know that there is a way to fix it when it flops?
Yup, and it didn't work either.

I think it was the oil.
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Old 12-06-2013, 10:47 AM   #35
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I'm thinking of starting to use this in my coffee. What is a good starting amount? A teaspoon or tablespoon. I've heard too much can mess you up bathroom wise.
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Old 12-06-2013, 12:13 PM   #36
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Teaspoon! TEASPOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNN!

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Old 12-09-2013, 10:29 PM   #37
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A teaspoon if you're not used to coconut oil, a tablespoon if you are. I didn't have any difficulty adjusting to it, and I eat coconut oil all the time. It did make my scalp crawl and I felt a rush of energy about 10 minutes after drinking it. I've tried it a few times in herbal tea since coffee is bothering my stomach, and it definitely wakes one up.
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Old 12-11-2013, 09:10 PM   #38
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Questions for those of you who have been doing this awhile. Do you use both MCT oil and Coconut oil? Do you strictly use one or the other?

So I know that MCT Oil is a pure MCT while coconut oil is only roughly 65%. (that is, if what I am reading is correct). So if this is indeed true, wouldn't MCT Oil be the preferred oil?

If you do "use" the MCT oil, do you use it in coffee? Any other ideas on its use? I just got a bottle and very curious.

Just kicking around some oily thoughts.
I tried adding MCT Oil to salads and also veggies with lunch and dinner. For whatever reason, I found that it sped up my heart rate. It is supposed to increase metabolism, but I didn't like that sensation and if you can feel your heart react that is probably not a good thing.

Coconut oil is great, but it is mostly saturated fat. Be aware that about 25% of the population responds to high saturated fat with greatly increased LDL and LDL particle count. You need to test your LDL particles using any of about three tests that now support that, including NMR Lipoprofile from Labcorp. I had mine tested recently after going Paleo for a few years, and increasing saturated fat has made my LDL particles shoot very high. I'm now backing off saturated fat and trying to increase monounsaturated fat through Macadamia Oil. Olive Oil has too much polyunsaturated oil for my taste, and polyunsaturated is the most dangerous kind because it oxidizes easily, both in heat during cooking, and in the body.
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Old 12-12-2013, 06:32 AM   #39
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I tried adding MCT Oil to salads and also veggies with lunch and dinner. For whatever reason, I found that it sped up my heart rate. It is supposed to increase metabolism, but I didn't like that sensation and if you can feel your heart react that is probably not a good thing.

Coconut oil is great, but it is mostly saturated fat. Be aware that about 25% of the population responds to high saturated fat with greatly increased LDL and LDL particle count. You need to test your LDL particles using any of about three tests that now support that, including NMR Lipoprofile from Labcorp. I had mine tested recently after going Paleo for a few years, and increasing saturated fat has made my LDL particles shoot very high. I'm now backing off saturated fat and trying to increase monounsaturated fat through Macadamia Oil. Olive Oil has too much polyunsaturated oil for my taste, and polyunsaturated is the most dangerous kind because it oxidizes easily, both in heat during cooking, and in the body.
I wonder why you were told that it is the saturated fat that is the cause of your ldl particle count. Where are you getting these figures from. I have done a ton of reading on the subject and this is the first time ever, I have seen this. I would be very interested to know more.
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Old 12-12-2013, 06:51 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by clackley View Post
I wonder why you were told that it is the saturated fat that is the cause of your ldl particle count. Where are you getting these figures from. I have done a ton of reading on the subject and this is the first time ever, I have seen this. I would be very interested to know more.
She is saying that SOME people respond to saturated fat with increased LDL. I think she's waiting to get a particle count though because it might be the larger LDL and not as much the smaller LDL.

the LDL-S3 GGE , and the VAP test can differentiate, but a regular cholesterol screening cannot.

Quote:
comes in four basic forms: a big, fluffy form known as large LDL, and three increasingly dense forms known as medium, small, and very small LDL. A diet high in saturated fat mainly boosts the numbers of large-LDL particles, while a low-fat diet high in carbohydrates propagates the smaller forms. The big, fluffy particles are largely benign, while the small, dense versions keep lipid-science researchers awake at night.

But here's the problem: The typical LDL test doesn't distinguish between large and small LDL particles — it can't even spot the difference. And people can have mostly large LDL or mostly small LDL in their overall LDL, depending upon a host of genetic, lifestyle, and environmental factors.

Last edited by metqa; 12-12-2013 at 06:57 AM..
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Old 12-12-2013, 07:19 AM   #41
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I think she said that 25% of the population have this response and that seems patently wrong according to my understanding. I would love to see some substantiating literature on it.

The lipid hypothesis is what many health care practitioners adhere to. It is very questionable in it's validity. Even if it were true that saturated fact (in and of itself.... not consumed with carbs), had this effect, the evidence that having higher LDL is a predictor of heart disease at all, is not accurate in most instances. The one caviet is those with genetic hyperlipidemia which is rare and carries other risk factors not applicable to anyone else.

If anyone is interested to learn a bit more on the subject, there is a plethora of very educated and well informed people who write about it. I would think at very least we have this as a basic understanding/knowledge on a diet that is high in fats ... saturated fats being the most desirable.

The other notions about health are simply old school in my opinion.
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Old 12-12-2013, 07:27 AM   #42
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OK--I'm just a single individual, but for me saturated fat (and especially coconut oil) elevates my LDL enormously. I have a naturally high HDL, but both my endo and cardiologist have told me that anything that so dramatically raises my LDL is not good for me.

I manage find with low carb eating and moderate fat, but I avoid saturated fat as much as possible. I eat grass-fed bison rather than beef, and I eat a lot of wild-caught fish (mainly tuna and salmon). I use EVOO and some Kerrygold butter (limited). This gives me great lab values.

I'm not saying that I am 'typical,' but there are people like me for whom saturated fat is not especially healthy.

I think we can all share out own experiences on LCF, but it's wrong to generalize for the entire population based on our individual experiences.
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Old 12-12-2013, 09:13 AM   #43
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I agree with Clackley that a lot of the lipid hypothesis is flawed and over generalized, but we cannot deny Leo's personal experience that the LDL did rise.

Whether it is a dangerous rise or a benign rise is to be seen, but it IS Leo's experience and more information is what is needed.

The fact that the ENDO and CARDIO said it was BAD would not be enough information for me considering that they don't yet know what type of LDL it is. To make judgements or changes without info is what most specialist do when recommending low fat, No sat fats, etc. It's the "Everybody Knows" argument and I for one think that information rather than generalization from either direction is the better course.

As mentioned before, Sat fats DO increase LDL, but it tends to increase the large fluffy LDL, not the small, dense, sticky LDL and the only way to be sure is to get the test. Any speculation without that is just speculation and guessing.
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Old 12-12-2013, 11:28 AM   #44
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I have had the VAP test in the past, and my LDL was 100% Pattern A--the 'large, fluffy' kind. My endo told me that he finds that consistent with those who, like me, have high HDL and low trigs. I would like to attribute this to my low-carb eating, but it seems to be a genetic gift because my sister, who eats a SAD diet and very high carb, has the same pattern.

HOWEVER, my doctors insist that the issue of the 'type' of LDL being 'good' is untrue--i.e., LDL should always be limited regardless of the type. I tend to trust them rather than the statements made by people on the internet.

The issue for me is that since coconut oil immediately elevated my LDL beyond what is for me a 'normal' level, I was advised to avoid it. I have since heard of others who have had the same experience. We are probably a minority, but there are many people who are using it who, unlike me, don't have regular blood tests and may not know that this is not always a good thing (I'm tested because I'm hypothyroid.)
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Old 12-12-2013, 11:55 AM   #45
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Well, I am glad that your LDL is mostly Pattern A.

As far as "statements made by people on the internet", I, for one, try not to stand behind statements that aren't in some fashion based on facts, or research. Some of those people "on the internet" are folks posting research abstracts and such and from their conclusions I base my opinions, as I am not a scientist and for me they are only opinions based on someone else's information. In that way we are similar as you are basing your opinion on the information given to you by your doctor who is basing that on facts that he/she had learned.

That doesnt' mean they cannot contradict or that anyone on the internet is "lying" or "ignorant" persay.

From what I've read, there is not really a "good" or "bad" cholesterol, it all has to do with how it affects your body. The fact that LDLa is fluffy means that it is not going to be the LDL used to embed in damaged tissue. To me that means two things: IF I have damaged tissue, my body will have to make and send one of the other dense LDL's to go repair the damage and two, if there is no damage there is little chance any LDL to embed in to the tissue. You don't spackle an undamaged wall, so to speak.

This is not my opinion but what I learned by reading and listening to doctor's speak on the subject. One could have super high cholesterol and perfectly undamaged blood vessels and be ideally the safest from heart disease, or one can have super low cholesterol and the arteries being torn down by a wrecking ball every day needing repair.

I would like to know WHY your Doctor says any type of LDL is dangerous at any level. What damage does it cause? What damage does it lead to? If LDLa is not harmful in relationship to heart disease, then in what other way is it harmful? I'm not challenging the statement, so much as wanting to the the information behind it.

See, i'm the person the doctor hates, cause I question everything. I'm a skeptic, you have to make me believe. I don't just accept it, if there are other conclusions that could be made...

I'm not saying that in your case you should Not listen to the doctor, because he has your health in mind, but I'd still want to know, especially because you are an exception, What is so BAD about LDL? And What is so bad about LDLa. I'm sure you aren't going to go and ask them for me personally, so I have to look for my information, on the internet, from other doctors, who may have different opinions. I welcome them all.

Sorry to write a book.

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Old 12-12-2013, 12:23 PM   #46
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Just one example of those "people on the internet"

Ronald M. Krauss, M.D., the director of the department of atherosclerosis research at Children's Hospital Oakland Research Institute. Dr. Krauss — who is helping to set the new cholesterol recommendations from the NIH's National Cholesterol Education Program — to develop a method of analyzing cholesterol. Dr. Krauss and collaborators from Harvard and Malmo, Sweden

Quote:
"Everyone doesn't necessarily have the same amount of very small LDL in their LDL," Dr. Krauss explains. Some people have mostly large LDL, a group Dr. Krauss would describe as "pattern A," while others have mostly small LDL (and usually, low HDL and high triglycerides), a group Dr. Krauss would label "pattern B." The second group has an increased risk of heart disease (a finding suggested again this year through the use of ion mobility). Large LDL, on the other hand — and large LDL is usually the majority of the LDL that shows up in a standard blood profile — is mostly benign.
Quote:
But during experiments, Dr. Krauss discovered that while a diet high in saturated fat from dairy products would indeed make your LDL levels rise, "saturated fat intake results in an increase of larger LDL rather than smaller LDL particles," as he wrote in an American Journal of Clinical Nutrition review he co-authored in 2006. A diet heavy in full-fat cheese and butter — but not overloaded in calories — triggered the relatively harmless health profile described as pattern A.
When I see this, as stated by the person who is helping to define the standards of cholesterol for the entire country, I want to know, if this guy says it is benign and harmless, but a local doctor says it's dangerous and should be lowered, who should I believe?
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Old 12-12-2013, 01:16 PM   #47
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I guess I wasn't clear. My doctors never said that "any type of LDL is dangerous at any level."

What happened is that since I get regular blood tests and my lipid numbers had been relatively stable for some time, the dramatic escalation from my use of coconut oil was something of concern.

My endo had been checking my lipids carefully because my hypothyroidism had gone undiagnosed for more than 5 years, and that had resulted in an unusual elevation of my LDL. With treatment, my LDL had returned to 'my' normal levels.

The issue isn't damage to my heart. Both my endo and cardiologist agree that my lipid profile is excellent. Their concern was any substance that would suddenly elevate my LDL as dramatically as the coconut oil did. That, to them, was worrisome. My cardiologist insists that regardless of the type of LDL, a significant elevation is not benign.

I get the same effect (not quite as dramatic) if I overeat saturated fat. For example, I love eggs, but because of the inflammatory issues with egg yolks, I tend to rely on egg whites (I have severe arthritis, which I control with diet and exercise). When I indulge and eat more whole eggs, my LDL will immediately go up. This wasn't true when I was much younger, so I suspect that what I've read--i.e., that many 'senior' women don't metabolize saturated fat well--is true for me.

Once again, I am not claiming that my situation is universal. I eat for my health, and limiting saturated fat seems to be conducive to good health at this time in my life.
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Old 12-12-2013, 01:50 PM   #48
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Quote:
The issue isn't damage to my heart. Both my endo and cardiologist agree that my lipid profile is excellent. Their concern was any substance that would suddenly elevate my LDL as dramatically as the coconut oil did. That, to them, was worrisome. My cardiologist insists that regardless of the type of LDL, a significant elevation is not benign.
I see, that clarifies a lot for me. Thanks. it's hard to understand sometimes when someone is an exception, so thank you for being patient with me and explaining your situation more clearly.

It sounds like you are doing everything else in a healthy manner, just that your ratio of dietary fats is lower for saturated.

Someone in a different thread was asking about using Macadamia oil since it's mono with little or no PUFA. Do you know if Mac Oil would have a different effect on you than coconut oil ?
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Old 12-12-2013, 03:17 PM   #49
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I actually don't know about other oils. I was raised with EVOO, and that's the only oil I use these days. Since I read that a lot of supermarket versions are not pure olive oil, I've been really careful about buying only the 'real thing.'
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Old 12-12-2013, 03:48 PM   #50
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I actually don't know about other oils. I was raised with EVOO, and that's the only oil I use these days. Since I read that a lot of supermarket versions are not pure olive oil, I've been really careful about buying only the 'real thing.'
Wow, okay, how to you know if it's the real thing?
I will look at the bottle and I know it's good to have dark container but I get suspicious if the bottle is green colored glass.

I had bought some imported olive oil special order for my region did not purchase it anymore, It was so delicious, but Now I've run out and I hate to think that I'm not getting real EVOO. I buy the "expensive " looking bottle hoping it's as good as the imported stuff, but it never is.

I've been using MCT oil in my shakes and to supplement my cooking oils. Mostly I drink it in hot drinks and smoothies. It makes my hot cocoa taste creamy without dairy.
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Old 12-13-2013, 03:33 AM   #51
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On the olive oil--I read about some test done, and one brand was noted as 'pure'--it happened to be a California brand that I've bought online on the recommendation of a friend. Subsequently, I found another CA brand on Amazon that is also 'guaranteed' to be pure olive oil. I'm alone, so I don't use that much, and I'm careful what I buy.
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Old 12-19-2013, 05:50 AM   #52
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Just wanted to mention that there is a product out there that is vit D in MCT oil. Kind of 2 birds with one stone...

My current recipe for bpc is fresh ground coffee brewed in a French press. Add hwc, vco, mtc/vit d, butter, drops of sucralose and then 30 seconds with the immersion blender.

It has ruined me for any other coffees.
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Old 12-31-2013, 09:16 AM   #53
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I just got some MCT Oil and am using it in place of Coconut Oil in my coffee. My cholesterol numbers were up the first test after 6 months or so of using CO, but my ratios were still excellent, so I wasn't concerned. HDL went to 101.
I'm still using CO too, just not as much. I have labs again in April, so I will see if it makes a difference.
I am really more interested in brain function, and MCT Oil is a more efficient way to get the MCTs.
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Old 12-31-2013, 11:45 AM   #54
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Weight loss can give wacky ldl #'s. There is a ton of good scientific literature on the subject. Also it is good to keep in mind that LDL is a calculated # most often. Be careful to isolate what is actually going on and if it really matters.
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Old 12-31-2013, 01:56 PM   #55
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I have been using the stick blender technique since I saw it on YouTube and it's great.

So why did it flop the two times I used Pompein olive oil?

I don't know, but I will buy the other and try again.

No avocado oil at our Costco. sob.....


I found out the brand of avocado oil at Costco and bought it online directly b/c we didn't have it here either. It's by chosen foods in case you want to look into it. Not much more than at Costco either.
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