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-   -   How many grams of carbs to reach NK? (http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/nutritional-ketosis-high-fat-low-carb/810766-how-many-grams-carbs-reach-nk.html)

spoiltmomof2 08-26-2013 01:10 PM

How many grams of carbs to reach NK?
 
I got the Art and Science of low carb living book.

In several places it references 50 grams of carbs or less a day.

Can you really reach a good level of ketosis with that or should you stay under 20?

emel 08-26-2013 01:23 PM

It's very individual.

I started with Atkins Induction, so I used 20 net as a ceiling.
Now I do 35 total carbs and have no trouble staying in ketosis.
But there's some things, such as sorbitol and malitol/bars that I won't use. I also find that I need to space the carbs out throughout the day. You'll find your own limits and preferences. It would be nice if it was an exact number for everyone, but it isn't.

Steve Phinney (one of the art and science guys) says he stays between 25 and 50 total carbs. He eats LC veggies and berries.

Joe 08-26-2013 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spoiltmomof2 (Post 16575669)
I got the Art and Science of low carb living book.

In several places it references 50 grams of carbs or less a day.

Can you really reach a good level of ketosis with that or should you stay under 20?

I would read the fewer than 50 grams of carbs as general guidelines for people in general. Some folks will get there with 50, but many will need to restrict further.

One item to keep in mind is that most folks who are trying for nutritional ketosis are a bit different than subjects in a study who are more of a random sample. Most of us are moderately broken metabolically, and haven't reached weight/fitness targets with low carbing. I suspect someone who stays slim and metabolically healthy on a SAD could get away with a higher carb total and remain in NK than many of us here. That's just a hunch though.

joe

Ntombi 08-26-2013 04:05 PM

I stay below twenty carbs total, but I can eat twice that and still be in ketosis. At least, that used to be the case, back when I first did Atkins many moons ago. I'm comfortable with my levels now, so I have no need to test it.

spoiltmomof2 08-26-2013 05:43 PM

What is the fastest way to get into ketosis?

I normally just do induction and it takes me 3-3 1/2 days.
Can it be done faster than that?

lazy girl 08-26-2013 06:40 PM

Some researchers and authors recommend fasting for a few days to get into ketosis quickly. It takes quite a bit of time for some people to reach the ketogenic state; to me, 3 1/2 days would be a miracle.

clackley 08-26-2013 06:43 PM

It is one thing to get into ketosis and another to be ketosis-adapted. You my take up,to 6 weeks to become the latter

Punkin 08-27-2013 10:36 AM

I find to get into ketosis, it is easier if I can go under 25g/day net. However once I am in I can push it up to 45g/day.

MerryKate 08-29-2013 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clackley (Post 16576175)
It is one thing to get into ketosis and another to be ketosis-adapted. You my take up,to 6 weeks to become the latter

What's the difference? I thought the two terms were interchangeable.

clackley 08-30-2013 05:22 AM

Ketosis and being keto adapted are almost the same. The difference apparently is that being adapted means that the body has become good at being a fat burner and is no longer spilling ketones as much. I believe it also means that the body is using more of one of the 3 types of ketones than when initially getting into ketosis.

terrik 09-07-2013 10:50 AM

New to NK
 
There are three types of ketones? Please explain. I am new to this diet, and my ketone strips register between negative and trace. Am I in ketosis? I shoot for less than twenty carbs a day.

Also, what role do the sugar alcohols play? Do they interrupt ketosis? Or should I just count them as carbs? Thanks.

clackley 09-07-2013 12:23 PM

Here is a link explaining ketones.

Ketone bodies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If you just started low carb and are getting those readings on ketostix (urine), it is possible that you are in ketosis but more likely not.

Count sugar alcohols as at least half of their listed carb count. If you consume enough, they will most definitely interrupt ketosis.

Ntombi 09-10-2013 05:06 PM

Some of us deduct some portion of sugar alcohols, some of us count them fully. Some of us count some and not others. Sugar alcohols are something that impacts bodies differently.


I choose not to eat them 99% of the time, and when I do, I count them fully. Others choose differently.

It might be a good idea for you to read The Art & Science of Low Carbohydrate Living. It explains the science behind NK.

luckymuma 09-10-2013 05:14 PM

Things like fats can push you out of ketosis though right? My carbs are between 15 and 20 a day, every day. Most of those come from dairy ( cheese and cream). The only days I experience ketosis are the BPC days ( only BPC for breakfast, nothing till lunch, then lower fat, but protein till dinner, and increase fat at dinner and after). I'm also still nursing my youngest, and wonder if breast feeding has a protective mechanism of not getting into ketosis as easily as non nursing folk? My aim isn't to be in ketosis though, but I would think carbs at the level I have should produce a ketosis state?

luckymuma 09-10-2013 05:15 PM

I should also add my loss is incredibly slooooooow. Drives me NUTS!

Ntombi 09-10-2013 05:37 PM

No, fats can't kick you out of ketosis. Carbs certainly can. Excess protein can. Alcohol can. Fats cannot.

Again, if you're only using the ketostix, you're not getting an accurate look. They only test one type of ketone, and they can often give a false negative.


Now, you can be in ketosis and not lose weight. That's called maintenance. :) That's my plan, and several other people's reality.

luckymuma 09-11-2013 01:03 AM

So how can you tell if you're in ketosis if the sticks don't give an accurate picture?

Ntombi 09-11-2013 02:09 AM

There are physical signs of being in ketosis, but a lot of people use blood ketone meters, which are like blood glucose meters with a different strip. They use a finger stick, and measure the amount of ketones in your blood, which is the most accurate way to tell.

There are two meters available, both are free if you search around the Internet, but the strips aren't cheap. The more accurate of the meters (Precision Xtra) has strips that are about $2 each, and the least accurate meter (NovaMax) has slightly cheaper strips.

Some people never bother with either. Some of us use them every so often, and some people use them frequently. It's a personal choice.

If you know that you're a person who can get into ketosis and stay there without a lot of trouble, the strips may not be worth it for you. But really, I would read the book before deciding. Understanding the science of ketosis and why fat wouldn't be the macronutrients to knock you out of ketosis is important when you're making your food choices.

2bfitb440 09-11-2013 04:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luckymuma (Post 16598812)
Things like fats can push you out of ketosis though right? My carbs are between 15 and 20 a day, every day. Most of those come from dairy ( cheese and cream). The only days I experience ketosis are the BPC days ( only BPC for breakfast, nothing till lunch, then lower fat, but protein till dinner, and increase fat at dinner and after). I'm also still nursing my youngest, and wonder if breast feeding has a protective mechanism of not getting into ketosis as easily as non nursing folk? My aim isn't to be in ketosis though, but I would think carbs at the level I have should produce a ketosis state?

Just a thought and I'm certainly no expert but when I do Atkins I burn fat at a faster rate than traditional dieting. It's my understanding that when your body burns fat there are lots of toxins that are stored in that fat and get released as you are burning that fat. I would worry about those toxins and the breast milk...

clackley 09-11-2013 05:37 AM

I don't think it is 'toxins' that are released and that should not be a concern with breast feeding. The thing that may be released in stored fat are hormones but I doubt that would be of concern either in respect to breast feeding.

RebeccaLatham 09-11-2013 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ntombi (Post 16598831)
Now, you can be in ketosis and not lose weight. That's called maintenance.

Brilliant! I love the way you worded that. I'll remember that phrasing for the next time someone thinks that being in ketosis means you have to be losing weight.

luckymuma 09-11-2013 04:46 PM

Quote:

Just a thought and I'm certainly no expert but when I do Atkins I burn fat at a faster rate than traditional dieting. It's my understanding that when your body burns fat there are lots of toxins that are stored in that fat and get released as you are burning that fat. I would worry about those toxins and the breast milk...
Quote:

I don't think it is 'toxins' that are released and that should not be a concern with breast feeding. The thing that may be released in stored fat are hormones but I doubt that would be of concern either in respect to breast feeding.
Thanks both. I've read alot of the years, and I think it is best to avoid constant ketosis with low carbing, most plans seem to suggest nursing mothers have a higher level of carbs...and I assume it's to avoid ketosis. My nurser isn't a tiny baby, so it probably won't affect him, but anecdotally, a friend has a baby, a few mths old, and when she goes ketotic, he baby becomes VERY unsettled untill she ups her carbs enough to not be in ketosis...that is just one person though!

Wow Ntombi! I have never heard of those monitors before! How very cool! And it sounds good to have a more accurate way of measuring ketones that's for sure!

RebeccaLatham 09-11-2013 04:55 PM

luckymuma: Here is a little tip about using quotes in your comments:

Rather than copying them and then pasting them with a quote command, go to the comment you want to quote and click at the bottom of the comment that says "Quote". That way, the person's name will be included in the quote and it will be obvious who said what.

:)

lovetoknit 09-15-2013 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spoiltmomof2 (Post 16575669)
I got the Art and Science of low carb living book.

In several places it references 50 grams of carbs or less a day.

Can you really reach a good level of ketosis with that or should you stay under 20?


I stay under 15 a day and usually under 10 grams. I think that it varies with each individual. Men usually can get away with more than women.
Carolyn

lovetoknit 09-15-2013 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luckymuma (Post 16598814)
I should also add my loss is incredibly slooooooow. Drives me NUTS!


Slow is better. That way your skin has time to shrink and you will not lose muscle. Any loss is a good loss. Right now I am losing about a half a pound a week. I am good with that. It will take me another year to lose my weight at that pace, but I am good with that. I am not hungry and I like how I am eating. Also I have gone down 2 sizes in pants. I am wearing a pair of pants that I could not wear before when I was 10 pounds lighter. So I am losing more inches which I like.
Carolyn

Dix 09-16-2013 01:49 PM

My experience
 
My MD recommended I go on a nutritional ketosis diet. I started on July 10 with 20 grams carbs per day. A week later I was still not in ketosis, so I went back to the MD. My fasting glucose was 85 in Feb and 86 after being on the diet a week. I'm not diabetic nor on any medications except thyroid. He told me that he thought I had insulin resistance and to keep doing what I was doing.

On day 20 I reached ketosis and I have stayed in ketosis since July 30. However, I have lost no weight. So I purchased a blood glucose meter and ketone meter. Yes, I was in ketosis at 1.6, however my glucose was 127. Since that time my fasting glucose has been mostly between 110 and 116. This morning it was 96. Will my glucose keep coming down as I become ketosis adapted? And will the weight start to come off?

Ntombi 09-16-2013 07:06 PM

You can be in ketosis without losing weight. That's what we do in maintenance. If you're sure you're not losing (the scale isn't always the best way to tell, you have to measure, or use clothes to tell if you're losing inches), you may have to drop your total calories.

RebeccaLatham 09-16-2013 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dix (Post 16607017)
My MD recommended I go on a nutritional ketosis diet. I started on July 10 with 20 grams carbs per day. A week later I was still not in ketosis, so I went back to the MD. My fasting glucose was 85 in Feb and 86 after being on the diet a week. I'm not diabetic nor on any medications except thyroid. He told me that he thought I had insulin resistance and to keep doing what I was doing.

On day 20 I reached ketosis and I have stayed in ketosis since July 30. However, I have lost no weight. So I purchased a blood glucose meter and ketone meter. Yes, I was in ketosis at 1.6, however my glucose was 127. Since that time my fasting glucose has been mostly between 110 and 116. This morning it was 96. Will my glucose keep coming down as I become ketosis adapted? And will the weight start to come off?

When I first started Nutritional Ketosis, I found that I was eating too much protein, and it was raising my blood glucose. It is possible that you are eating too much protein. Do you know how many grams per day you are eating?

Also, while I was in NK (as evidenced by blood testing), I did not lose weight at first because I was eating too much fat. I lowered my fat from 185g per day to 135g per day, and I started to lose weight. Do you know how many grams of fat you are eating per day?


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