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-   -   What is your blood ketone range? (http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/nutritional-ketosis-high-fat-low-carb/810707-what-your-blood-ketone-range.html)

Liz1959 08-25-2013 11:14 AM

What is your blood ketone range?
 
I stay in pretty easy. Usually around 1.8-3.2. Occasionally in the 4's.
Yesterday I had a 6.1 and 5.7 this morning.

I just curious because I see so many posting about being under 1.0.
I'm also trying to remember what Phinney said about the high end of the range.
Could be that I need to do some exercise and burn some of them off!

I'm not losing. As a matter of fact, I recently gained 12 pounds in about a week and a half! All belly and hips! :sad: Wasn't doing anything different other than some extreme family stress, and it's not moving.

Really wondering about the ketone levels though.

Any thoughts?

Joe 08-25-2013 11:49 AM

Liz, wow, those numbers seem very high to me. Starvation levels of ketones are around 4 to 5. Two thoughts:
1. What meter are you using?
2. Do you use any MCT products like coconut oil? I know MCTs raise the ketone levels, but it's less clear on whether that is a good thing or just neutral.

At a first cut, weight comes down to calories consumed (sure, there's thyroid levels, sleep which affects hormone levels, etc.). Having a high level of ketones doesn't mean you're going to lose weight. My understanding is that NK provides a reduction in appetite from ketones, and some folks find benefits to energy levels, which is how the weight loss happens.

Liz1959 08-25-2013 12:13 PM

Thanks Joe,
I use the Precision Xtra.
I use coconut oil in my coffee. Probably a TBS a day, maybe 2. I thought I had read that 7 or 10 was high. Can remember which or where. But that as long as you make insulin, the body will regulate it. So I'm not really worried, more curious, because I never see anyone posting with higher numbers.

Dottie 08-25-2013 12:33 PM

Ketone body turnover during and after exercise ... [Am J Physiol. 1983] - PubMed - NCBI
I don't know if that will be of interest, or not.
My understanding as well is that there's a difference between someone intentionally in ketosis -versus- someone who falls into ketosis for medical reasons (such as a diabetic having issues).
I'm not well versed enough to comfortably discuss it (lol) but a google for "starvation levels of blood ketones" has a lot of results you can browse :)

Joe 08-25-2013 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liz1959 (Post 16574178)
Thanks Joe,
I use the Precision Xtra.
I use coconut oil in my coffee. Probably a TBS a day, maybe 2. I thought I had read that 7 or 10 was high. Can remember which or where. But that as long as you make insulin, the body will regulate it. So I'm not really worried, more curious, because I never see anyone posting with higher numbers.

Liz, sorry I wasn't clear: I agree that what's going on isn't uncontrolled ketoacidosis, and I wasn't trying to cause worry. By "high" I just meant "puzzling," as it's higher than I've seen other folks generate. The Precision Xtra is the more accurate of the two common meters, and your coconut oil consumption doesn't seem insane. So I'm stumped.

Have your readings always been high? Another possibility is a flaky meter.

RebeccaLatham 08-25-2013 03:01 PM

I am doing Alternate Day Fasting, and now my BKs are between 3.2 and 5.2 first thing in the morning before eating.

One thing to remember is that just because you are in ketosis, it does not mean you will lose weight. I can show high BK numbers, and if I am eating too much fat, I still will not lose weight.

Ntombi 08-25-2013 03:08 PM

A few people have reported similarly high ranges without issues.

My numbers seem to be in the 0.6-2 range during my infrequent tests.

Are you trying to lose? I can't tell from your post if you're in maintenance already. Being in ketosis doesn't automatically mean losing weight, it just means a state of fat burning. If you're eating too many calories, you're not going to lose.

AnnetteW 08-25-2013 04:18 PM

My average for the past 3 weeks (daily) is 1.8, the low was 0.9 and the high was 2.9.

Liz1959 08-25-2013 04:39 PM

Thanks Dottie, I've been doing some googling, and found some interesting info.

Joe, They haven't been what I considered high. I was well into ketosis when I got my meter. I had been LC for almost 2 years. Initially I had reading in the 2.6-4.2 range. I think the lowest I have ever had was 0.8.
I'm going to track it for a few days and see what it does.

Rebecca, that's good to know that yours get that high too. I don't intentionally fast but lately I haven't been eating unless I'm hungry, and stopped worrying about eating early enough before bedtime. (Cavewomen didn't have clocks!)
So that might have something to do with it.

Ntombi, I started LC in Jan 2011, and dropped 30 ponds right away, 180 to 150. Then my body seemed to want to stay there so I didn't worry about it. Last fall I suddenly lost 12-15 pounds, without eating different anything different. Went back up to 150 over the winter. OK, whatever. Then July I jumped to 160 in what seemed like overnight.
I think it's stress hormones. I don't cheat, so maybe I've lost some muscle mass and slowed my metabolism. Back to walking and weights, and see what happens.

Ntombi 08-25-2013 05:00 PM

Hmm, stress could definitely be a contributor, but I would also get your thyroid and vitamin D levels checked. Maybe cortisol too.

Can you tell the difference in your clothes? Meaning, there's a difference in how ten pounds of fat looks vs. ten pounds of water.

Liz1959 08-25-2013 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ntombi (Post 16574452)
Hmm, stress could definitely be a contributor, but I would also get your thyroid and vitamin D levels checked. Maybe cortisol too.

Can you tell the difference in your clothes? Meaning, there's a difference in how ten pounds of fat looks vs. ten pounds of water.

3" in the belly and 3" in the hips. I'm pissed. Oh and of course I sent the last of my too big clothes to the goodwill in March. Isn't that how it works?!:(

My web time/tv time is being done on the treadmill starting today.

RebeccaLatham 08-25-2013 06:38 PM

Keep in mind that many believe that too much cardio is counterproductive and just causes more cortisol which causes weight gain.

You are better off lifting weight and doing HITT.

:)

AnnetteW 08-25-2013 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liz1959 (Post 16574120)
I'm not losing. As a matter of fact, I recently gained 12 pounds in about a week and a half! All belly and hips! :sad: Wasn't doing anything different other than some extreme family stress, and it's not moving.

That has to been water retention. Pretty bizarre though to be so much, especially if your diet hasn't changed. Something crazy is going on.

Ntombi 08-25-2013 06:44 PM

The stomach, okay, but three inches in the hips in that short time frame? Yeah, something's going on. I would say it's time for tests.

Another though: could you be entering perimenopause?

Liz1959 08-25-2013 07:57 PM

No, post, 2+ years. I thought all of that was settled down. We are complicated animals though.
All my docs ever look at is TSH.
I'm going to give it 2 weeks with exercise and see if that at least gets me in a better mood. Maybe things will start moving in the right direction.

clackley 08-26-2013 09:08 AM

What are the tsh ranges? They changed them here. It makes a difference.

My ketones range anywhere from .9 to 3.3. I have never gotten higher than that. I always test first thing in the a.m. and in a fasting state.

Liz1959 08-26-2013 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clackley (Post 16575197)
What are the tsh ranges? They changed them here. It makes a difference.

My ketones range anywhere from .9 to 3.3. I have never gotten higher than that. I always test first thing in the a.m. and in a fasting state.

My TSH was: 4/2012-2.38, 4/1013-1.21. The range on the lab sheet is 0.47-5.0
I get tired of arguing with them.
I had just started reading Thyroid Madness when my mom got sick in April. I need to go check it out again and do my homework.

I always check in the AM too. 5.1 today, so it's coming down.
Thanks
Liz

clackley 08-26-2013 11:06 AM

They have tightened up the ranges to .40 to 3.8 but you would still fall into the 'normal' range. However, that does not tell the whole story by any means. You should be able to get further blood work done.

Liz1959 08-26-2013 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RebeccaLatham (Post 16574548)
Keep in mind that many believe that too much cardio is counterproductive and just causes more cortisol which causes weight gain.

You are better off lifting weight and doing HITT.

:)

Rebecca, I know, I don't call what I do cardio. I have a laptop on my treadmill. I walk at about 1.9-2.5 mph with a little incline if I'm surfing, reading or watching TV. Slower if I'm typing. It's better than sitting or standing, and I'm usually surprised at the mileage when I stop.

I would rather walk outside, but I hate to have to drive somewhere to do it. There is too much traffic where I live.

Liz1959 08-26-2013 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clackley (Post 16575390)
They have tightened up the ranges to .40 to 3.8 but you would still fall into the 'normal' range. However, that does not tell the whole story by any means. You should be able to get further blood work done.

I just have to do my homework before I go argue with them, and so I know more about the tests and what they mean. It seems to be one of those things docs just don't want to fool with.
My healthcare is due to change in October, so I may be shopping for a new doc anyway.

Punkin 08-27-2013 08:05 AM

Mine range from about 0.3 to 1.5. I feel best when I am over 0.5. I don't really like having no appetite, which tends to happen when I get towards the higher range, only because I need to know when to eat. I also don't need to lose body fat at this point so for me it is about maintaining my weight by eating the right number of calories for my daily requirements. I have always been a yoyo dieter and that is the challenge that I am trying to overcome. I want to learn to eat for "nutrition" reasons and not emotional/mental. NK is a better approach for me because it helps me accomplish this goal more easily than if I were just doing low carb. I think one of the reasons my range is so low compared to other people is because I don't have a lot of body fat left to lose so my body is only burning dietary fat, so if I don't eat enough fat, my ketones are low. I also notice that it tends to go up when I have the flu or when I exercise, or else they stay in the lower range.


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