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Old 08-05-2013, 06:31 AM   #1
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High Fat NK 80/15/5 - August Version

Keep looking for an August thread, hope this isn't a duplicate.

How's everyone doing?
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Old 08-05-2013, 06:54 AM   #2
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Keep looking for an August thread, hope this isn't a duplicate.

How's everyone doing?
Good. I am glad you started this. I don't think that there are any duplicates.
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Old 08-05-2013, 07:41 AM   #3
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Oh good, thanks Carolyn! I've been looking for my NK friends

Hope everyone is off to a good start for August.

I'm struggling a bit with a few days in a row of gains when I should have been seeing losses. I'm trying to stick with the plan but it's a bit frustrating. I keep wanting tweak something to help me lose, but I know it's better to stick to the plan and stay consistent.

How's your August going, Carolyn?
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Old 08-05-2013, 07:48 AM   #4
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Reposting Raindroproses post:

Welcome to the August High Fat 80/15/5 NK thread!

Our goal is a healthy LC high fat macro and mandatory daily protein regimen resulting in a state of Nutritional Ketosis. Ideal ratios for fat range from about 65% to 85% of calories. Protein is kept moderate. Total carbs are 50g or less. The short version is: Eat your required protein grams, keep total carbs low and the rest of your calories are fat. This is not a very low calorie thread.

Protein

In his book, Dr. Phinney recommends 1.5-2.0g/kg reference weight for protein grams. Separately Dr. Phinney has said that he leans towards 1.0-1.5g/kg reference weight. Reference weight is the appropriate weight for your height. It is important to use the correct weight for the formula because overeating protein can interfere with weight loss. So use the right weight even if you have a higher intermediate goal weight.

The formula looks like this: (goal_weight/2.2)*1.5 = daily protein grams.

For example: Your goal weight is 150

(150/2.2)*1.5 = 102g protein a day.

Protein II

Use the 1.5g/kg from the published book as your start point. If you need to you can fall back to the 1.0-1.5g/kg range. See this post.
Fat

Most of your calories should come from fat.
Carbs

50g total carbs (not net) or less. Start low on carbs.
Calories

According to Dr. Phinney, an obese person burns about 30kCal per kg of weight and a moderately active adult close to their correct weight burns 35kCal per kg of weight. He attributes the difference, 30 to 35, to an obese person being more sedentary than a person at the right weight for their body.

From page 207 of The Art and Science of Low Carb Living:

"As an aside, the casual reader might protest that these energy expenditure numbers look pretty high. But for anyone that has worked with obese humans in a metabolic research ward, 30kcal per kg of actual body weight in the sedentary obese and 35 kcal/kg in the post-obese moderately active adult are actually quite conservative expenditure values."

For example: You are fat, your goal weight is 150 and right now you weigh 225.

225lb current calorie expenditure --> (225/2.2)*30 = 3068
150lb goal weight calorie expenditure --> (150/2.2)*35 = 2386
Calories II

How much should you eat? I don't know but it is probably not as little as you think. Use the formula to guestimate your current calorie expenditure and then start with 500 less calories. In the example above, that'd be a start point of about 2500 a day.

There are many health risks related to eating very low calories, like loss of lean body mass and metabolism down regulation, and it is hard to stick to a plan with very low calories. Very low calorie plans frequently result in binges which will wreck your efforts at NK. Start high and work down as needed but go down slowly. Panic is the enemy of success.
Macros

Macro ratios are a great tool to help you keep an eye on what you are doing but they can be very deceptive. 15% protein at 1500 calories is very different from 15% at 3000 calories. You can have great looking macros that are hiding terrible real numbers. Don't get stuck on macro percentages. Always check your protein grams to make sure you are eating to your goal.
Daily/Weekly Weigh-Ins

Do you weigh in daily or weekly? Totally up to you! I weigh in daily because I like the constant feedback. *BUT*, if you choose to do daily weigh-ins you have to accept that daily weights are a snapshot in time only. They are interesting data points but that is all and they are meaningless without the context of time. In other words, weigh-in daily if you want but pay attention to the trend not the individual snapshot of weight.
Tape Measure

You should measure yourself periodically. Knowing that you are losing inches can help keep you from wildly tweaking what you are doing when what you are doing is working even if the scale is saying otherwise. And it feels good to know you have lost inches.
Sodium

Consider your own health condition and any Rx meds but... low carb is not a low sodium way of eating or living. You *must* get your sodium in or your body will suffer. It might suffer silently for a long time before it finally breaks. Or it might express itself as agonizing leg cramps. Those cramps are caused by dehydration and/or a potassium deficiency but if you are a low sodium consumer then your sodium deficiency is contributing to your potassium loss and dehydration. The body excretes potassium if it is forced to conserve sodium because you are not getting enough. That is how important sodium is to your body. Phinney advises 5 Grams of sodium daily. That is a lot of sodium. Fear not! Unless you are going out of your way to eat low sodium you are probably getting 2 to 4 grams in your food every day. A little extra use of the salt shaker will fix up most people just fine. It is worth taking a look at how much sodium you are getting if you use a food logger. Table salt is not one for one on sodium grams. Google for the conversion 'how much sodium in table salt'. If you've been a casual low sodium person then you should pay careful attention to what you are eating and dun your former salt eschewing ways.

The body will cannabalize LBM for potassium if it has to. So, low sodium -> sacrifice potassium -> rob lean tissue for potassium -> poor LC results.
Links of Interest

April's NK thread

A sodium thread I created.

Long Term Stalls podcast with Jimmy Moore and Dr. Phinney. I made a list of the things covered in the podcast with the time it is located at within the recording. It isn't all inclusive but it is thorough.

Notes

Join in the conversation any time. Feel free to ask any questions you have. We are all happy to help you. Lurkers are welcome too.
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Old 08-05-2013, 09:12 AM   #5
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Oh good, thanks Carolyn! I've been looking for my NK friends

Hope everyone is off to a good start for August.

I'm struggling a bit with a few days in a row of gains when I should have been seeing losses. I'm trying to stick with the plan but it's a bit frustrating. I keep wanting tweak something to help me lose, but I know it's better to stick to the plan and stay consistent.

How's your August going, Carolyn?
If you are starting to gain, I would tweak your plan. Maybe lower your protein, lower your carbs, up your fat. Also look at anything new that you have been eating or maybe foods that you have been eating more of. Only you know what has changed from when you began. If I start to gain, the first thing that I do is cut out all vegetables. That usually will fix the poblem. I also examine how much protein that I am eating, and even evaluate my fat intake.
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Old 08-05-2013, 09:28 AM   #6
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Thanks for the input Carolyn, but I don't have anything to remove. I'm fairly strict and don't do veggies, just yet. Here is the rundown of my August so far:

Thursday 8/1: Weight: 181.6
Daily Totals
Calories 1196
Fat 99.4 g
Fiber 0.3 g
Carbs 6.6 g
Sodium 618.8 mg
Protein 63.7 g
Water 32 fl oz
Daily Calorie Composition: 2% from carbs, 76% from fat and 22% from protein.

Friday 8/2 Weight 181.8
Daily Totals
Calories 903
Fat 67.9 g
Fiber 0 g
Carbs 5.9 g
Sodium 1907.1 mg
Protein 67.4 g
Water 48 fl oz
Daily Calorie Composition: 3% from carbs, 67% from fat and 30% from protein.

Saturday 8/3 Weight 182.8
Daily Totals
Calories 1166
Fat 94 g
Fiber 0 g
Carbs 0.9 g
Sodium 3360 mg
Protein 78.6 g
Water 96 fl oz
Daily Calorie Composition: 0% from carbs, 73% from fat and 27% from protein.


Sunday 8/4: Weight: 182.8
Daily Totals
Calories 806
Fat 57.5 g
Fiber 0 g
Carbs 6.6 g
Sodium 631.3 mg
Protein 64.9 g
Water 88 fl oz
Daily Calorie Composition: 3% from carbs, 65% from fat and 32% from protein.

Monday 8/5: Weight: 183.0


I know my calories are on the lower side, but last week I tried raising them with fat to get back in the losing zone, and it didn't help, so I just tried to keep them stable this weekend to see if that would help. I'm so confused here.
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Old 08-05-2013, 01:49 PM   #7
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I'm back on induction after having no loses lately, and then slacking a bit too much. I never got too far off of track, still showed on the ketostix.

At least I know what to do, but that first day is hard when you kind of want to eat something more yummy. Had the afternoon hungries and just ate some sliced pork with mayonnaise instead of yummy macadamia nuts or coffee/cream.

I found a copy of Atkins '72 so I've read that and I'm trying to be stricter than some of the later plans. I tend to use too much cream, sour cream, goodies like that. I'm going to try to restrict to the quantities in the book (4t of HWC only for the first week.) I'll probably be a little looser with the veggies though.

I also got my new Blood Ketones Strips in the mail today, so maybe on Wednesday, I'll start trying to track again.
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Old 08-05-2013, 02:12 PM   #8
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I just decided to test with the new blood ketone strips since I just tested my blood sugar. Heck, I was pleasantly surprised to have a 1.3 reading.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And now, just a few seconds later tested with that NovaMax and got a LO reading again. Well dang it all. Looks like that meter is a bunch of crap after all. So when I was all upset because I wasn't getting readings when I felt I should, it could have possibly been the meter.

And now I feel better....lol.

So as of tomorrow I will start testing again and I will trust the new meter/stix.

This actually got me motivated to go read some more of my Atkins book.
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Old 08-05-2013, 02:45 PM   #9
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Great numbers, Annette. I'll be interested in following along with your keto numbers.

And, I'm just like you with the sour cream, etc. I never use it, and then I buy it all at the same time, cream cheese, HWC, and sour cream and all the dairy messes me up. I'm done with dairy now (effective Friday) and this will hopefully help me to get back on track.
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Old 08-05-2013, 05:04 PM   #10
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Thanks for the input Carolyn, but I don't have anything to remove. I'm fairly strict and don't do veggies, just yet. Here is the rundown of my August so far:

Thursday 8/1: Weight: 181.6
Daily Totals
Calories 1196
Fat 99.4 g
Fiber 0.3 g
Carbs 6.6 g
Sodium 618.8 mg
Protein 63.7 g
Water 32 fl oz
Daily Calorie Composition: 2% from carbs, 76% from fat and 22% from protein.

Friday 8/2 Weight 181.8
Daily Totals
Calories 903
Fat 67.9 g
Fiber 0 g
Carbs 5.9 g
Sodium 1907.1 mg
Protein 67.4 g
Water 48 fl oz
Daily Calorie Composition: 3% from carbs, 67% from fat and 30% from protein.

Saturday 8/3 Weight 182.8
Daily Totals
Calories 1166
Fat 94 g
Fiber 0 g
Carbs 0.9 g
Sodium 3360 mg
Protein 78.6 g
Water 96 fl oz
Daily Calorie Composition: 0% from carbs, 73% from fat and 27% from protein.


Sunday 8/4: Weight: 182.8
Daily Totals
Calories 806
Fat 57.5 g
Fiber 0 g
Carbs 6.6 g
Sodium 631.3 mg
Protein 64.9 g
Water 88 fl oz
Daily Calorie Composition: 3% from carbs, 65% from fat and 32% from protein.

Monday 8/5: Weight: 183.0


I know my calories are on the lower side, but last week I tried raising them with fat to get back in the losing zone, and it didn't help, so I just tried to keep them stable this weekend to see if that would help. I'm so confused here.
Everything looks good. You should not be gaining. Maybe you just have a water retention week. I get those sometimes.
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Old 08-05-2013, 06:28 PM   #11
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Thank you for the reassurance Carolyn! I'm very anxious to see what the scale says tomorrow. I'm hoping you're right!
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Old 08-06-2013, 04:30 AM   #12
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April, that's a tricky one. I'd be losing like crazy if I ate your numbers (or so I believe). But the calories are way too low for me to sustain.

I really have no ideas, obviously something needs to be shaken up. I just don't know what it is, but you truly can't lower what you eat, you might need to raise it.
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Old 08-06-2013, 04:33 AM   #13
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I measured nice ketones this morning, 1.4. I'll track for a few days, food too, and then see where I need to go. I think my problem is I'm easily able to eat the same amount of calories I burn in a day. Maintaining isn't what I want to do yet.
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Old 08-06-2013, 05:34 AM   #14
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1.4 is great, Annette. Do you do blood sugar, too? I've been doing my blood sugar, just to see where it is, and I find the results to be really interesting in correlation to what I'm eating. I believe it will really help me when I decide to add veggies, etc to my WOE.

I agree about not wanting to maintain, lets get the scale going down!!

And you're right Annette, I am not able to eat less. Good news is, I was down 1 lb this AM, so in the right direction. I think my problem could be related to dairy and some internal inflammation. I have removed dairy and am drinking a lot of water to combat it, and today is day 4 of meat and eggs which always helps me. The 10 slices of bacon last night are a step in the right direction, I think!
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Old 08-06-2013, 11:38 AM   #15
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THi Carolyn, my name is Linda. I have tried this WOE before but failed, but going to try again. I have to because of diabetis 2. And want to lose 10lbs. I always remember you being very encouraging to everybody. And such a success on this program that it makes me want yo try again. So thank you. Thank you for listening and here goes.
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Old 08-06-2013, 01:43 PM   #16
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I'm going to be back in a few minutes to reply and say hi to everyone but I had to moan and groan first.

I have a horrible headache and can't take any meds due to a medical procedure this coming Thursday. I don't know if it's diet related right now, but I hate drinking broth for salt and I had such puffy eyes this morning from the broth I drank yesterday.

I had to drive without sunglasses as I left them at home, and just got back from the doctor and now have to go for an MRI (weird foot thing going on.)

All these little medical stresses are building up...and doesn't an icecream sound good...lol. Seriously, all I saw were billboards of icecream ads when I drove home, in the bright sun no less.

Okay, rant over.

I'm drinking lots of iced tea and treating myself with a few extra drops of artificial sweetner. That's as hard core as I can get right now.
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Old 08-06-2013, 01:48 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by April04 View Post
1.4 is great, Annette. Do you do blood sugar, too? I've been doing my blood sugar, just to see where it is, and I find the results to be really interesting in correlation to what I'm eating. I believe it will really help me when I decide to add veggies, etc to my WOE.

I agree about not wanting to maintain, lets get the scale going down!!

And you're right Annette, I am not able to eat less. Good news is, I was down 1 lb this AM, so in the right direction. I think my problem could be related to dairy and some internal inflammation. I have removed dairy and am drinking a lot of water to combat it, and today is day 4 of meat and eggs which always helps me. The 10 slices of bacon last night are a step in the right direction, I think!
April, I do test my blood sugar every morning and often later in the afternoon too. I have learned a lot doing that. I usually am in the 90's now, and am hoping to see it drift down to the 80's. I do eat veggies, and don't notice a rise with veggies, but I sure do with fruit.

Glad to hear you had at least a little scale movement, maybe more tomorrow. I too am trying to eat a little less dairy. I love cream too much and am limiting it right now to 4 teaspoons per day (Atkins '72) but hope to raise it up, it's so yummy. I try not to eat too much cheese, will have a small amount on my dinner tonight.

Dinner is salmon, with a smear of mayo and grated cheddar on top, baked. Quite yummy and super moist. Some veggie on the side, will see what's in the fridge.
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Old 08-06-2013, 01:50 PM   #18
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Rebecca,

I read a lot of your blog when I was googling "ketosis women" and it's great to have you back to help us out.

I don't do very well when it comes to tracking, so I don't know if any of my info will help anyone, but I'm doing my best (got my journal here on this site.)

Now I'm off to read your new details.
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Old 08-06-2013, 02:03 PM   #19
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Rebecca, I just read your week 1 and 2 and then I thought about my lunch.

It's been 3 hours since I ate, and it was salad (60 gr) and a small amount of cucumber, red pepper, avocado 100 g of pork, 1 T olive oil and 1 T caesar dressing. So obviously all the carbs are in the veggies. Breakdown for my lunch is Fat 31.3 g, Carbs 8.6g, Fiber 5.2g, Protein 22.3g.

Yea...I kind of feel my BS should be lower than it is right now. Oh, it's at 93. But I tend to be happy when it's under 100.

And breakfast was just 3 eggs in butter.

I'm actually hungry now and have to eat something, and I don't know what.

Hope I'm not boring everyone to tears.
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Old 08-06-2013, 02:57 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnetteW View Post
I'm going to be back in a few minutes to reply and say hi to everyone but I had to moan and groan first.

I have a horrible headache and can't take any meds due to a medical procedure this coming Thursday. I don't know if it's diet related right now, but I hate drinking broth for salt and I had such puffy eyes this morning from the broth I drank yesterday.

I had to drive without sunglasses as I left them at home, and just got back from the doctor and now have to go for an MRI (weird foot thing going on.)

All these little medical stresses are building up...and doesn't an icecream sound good...lol. Seriously, all I saw were billboards of icecream ads when I drove home, in the bright sun no less.
Okay, rant over.

I'm drinking lots of iced tea and treating myself with a few extra drops of artificial sweetner. That's as hard core as I can get right now.
BIG HUGS Annette!!!
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Old 08-06-2013, 06:24 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by lovetoknit View Post
How did you ever find a good doctor that actually agrees with low carb eating?
My new doc is none other than Dr. James Carlson.


Quote:
It is my view that if we do not go into this not just for losing weight, but also for health, we will not stay with it. I am eating like this also for my health.
I agree. But I also want to get to a good body composition.
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Old 08-06-2013, 06:27 PM   #22
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I think you're number look great Rebecca, and welcome back! I'm looking forward to reading through your past and current posts. I wish you the best of luck with your restart!
Thanks for the welcome back! I'm looking forward to seeing how the rest of you are doing, too!
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Old 08-06-2013, 06:31 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by lindawell8 View Post
THi Carolyn, my name is Linda. I have tried this WOE before but failed, but going to try again. I have to because of diabetis 2. And want to lose 10lbs. I always remember you being very encouraging to everybody. And such a success on this program that it makes me want yo try again. So thank you. Thank you for listening and here goes.
Hi, Linda!

We sound a lot alike. I also have T2D and not much more than ten pounds to lose. I also have a few pounds of lean mass to put on.

I'm looking forward to seeing how you do. How did you do last time?
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Old 08-06-2013, 06:33 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by AnnetteW View Post
I'm going to be back in a few minutes to reply and say hi to everyone but I had to moan and groan first.

Okay, rant over.
Sorry you are not having the best day, Annette!
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Old 08-06-2013, 06:35 PM   #25
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Hi Judy, just been going thru stuff. But need to get serious with my sugar. Still need to loose10lbs. Know this is the way to do it. Really glad to see some familar names and faces still here. Gives me hope. Hope to get to know everybody else.
Linda
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Old 08-06-2013, 06:41 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by AnnetteW View Post
April, I do test my blood sugar every morning and often later in the afternoon too. I have learned a lot doing that. I usually am in the 90's now, and am hoping to see it drift down to the 80's. I do eat veggies, and don't notice a rise with veggies, but I sure do with fruit.

Glad to hear you had at least a little scale movement, maybe more tomorrow. I too am trying to eat a little less dairy. I love cream too much and am limiting it right now to 4 teaspoons per day (Atkins '72) but hope to raise it up, it's so yummy. I try not to eat too much cheese, will have a small amount on my dinner tonight.
Most of the time, my BG is in the mid-80s. I have stopped checking it every day because when I eat right, it stays there, and I hate to waste test strips!

I recently did "The Virgin Diet". It is an elimination diet, and I found out that I am moderately intolerant of dairy. So I have restricted myself to having dairy only once every four days, so as not to build up inflammation. On the days that I have dairy, I wake up the next morning with a stuffy nose.

It's actually weird that I do NOT have a stuffy nose all the time now. It was so normal to me that I did not even notice it that much. Now, I can breathe out of both nostrils very easily, and it feels weird.
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Old 08-06-2013, 06:46 PM   #27
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Hi Rebecca, I get so excited when somebody says hi. I am not very good at doing this. I love this way of eating. But I got scared of gainning fat. Which is not true. My sugar was awesome when I followed the plan. That is why I am back. Found out I missed the fat and just felt better all over. This time I am going to do it all the way. Nothing else works for me.
Linda
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Old 08-06-2013, 06:55 PM   #28
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Start Date: March 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnetteW View Post
Rebecca, I just read your week 1 and 2 and then I thought about my lunch.

It's been 3 hours since I ate, and it was salad (60 gr) and a small amount of cucumber, red pepper, avocado 100 g of pork, 1 T olive oil and 1 T caesar dressing. So obviously all the carbs are in the veggies. Breakdown for my lunch is Fat 31.3 g, Carbs 8.6g, Fiber 5.2g, Protein 22.3g.

Yea...I kind of feel my BS should be lower than it is right now. Oh, it's at 93. But I tend to be happy when it's under 100.

And breakfast was just 3 eggs in butter.

I'm actually hungry now and have to eat something, and I don't know what.

Hope I'm not boring everyone to tears.


Sorry, couldn't help it!

I do not find it boring at all! As a matter of fact, I think that we need to figure out what the heck is going on with us ladies of a certain age! Once we figure it out, a book needs to be written about how to help us and others like us.

I have dropped all veggies. Not missing them, really, and I think it is helping my blood sugar stay as low as it does.

I have been trying to eat at least 30 grams of protein with breakfast. This morning was 49.3g fat, 31.2g protein and 1.9g carbs. And to get there, I had to eat FOUR eggs and FOUR slices of bacon! I ate the eggs first, and I though I was gonna 'esplode! Somehow, I forced it down and when the bacon was done, I had no trouble eating that! But then, it WAS bacon, after all!
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Old 08-06-2013, 07:19 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by lindawell8 View Post
THi Carolyn, my name is Linda. I have tried this WOE before but failed, but going to try again. I have to because of diabetis 2. And want to lose 10lbs. I always remember you being very encouraging to everybody. And such a success on this program that it makes me want yo try again. So thank you. Thank you for listening and here goes.
Hi Linda! I am glad that I was able to help someone. I really want to be upbeat and help all I can. Sometimes I struggle too, but this has been the easiest WOE to stick with that I have ever had. Sometimes I splurge and eat too much protein or too many vegetables. I gain the next few days, but I always lose it again. I certainly do not miss grains or sugar at all. Sometimes I miss my sweet potatos. When I lose all the weight, I will have one once a week again. Those and avocados and almonds are my favorite.
Carolyn
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Old 08-06-2013, 09:16 PM   #30
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Stats: 138/102.3/107?
WOE: Low Carb Mediterranean/IF maintenance
Start Date: Feb. 25, 2013 Goal weight Sept. 11, 2013
Hello, August people. I'm still figuring out the varieties of low-carb approaches, and I'm here mainly to learn. My stats today were 68/25/7%, calories 1116. I walked a little over three miles. I haven't lost any weight for almost two weeks but am not too worried about it. This is my pattern and I'm getting used to it. Also I can see changes in my body, almost day to day, so that's encouraging.

I'm very, very interested in what I've been reading about ketones and the brain. My poor old dad is at the very end of a long sad trip with Alzheimer's, and sure, I'd like to think there was something I could do to keep my brain healthier. I also have migraines (the "silent" or painless type, but they are disorienting and upsetting) and I'm hoping they will be affected in a positive way as well.

So I think I'll have another dose of coconut oil before bed. Goodnight ladies. And gents, if there are any out there.
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