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Old 07-20-2013, 07:00 PM   #1
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NK forever?!

I have been experimenting with trying to up my carbs and protein and have learned that upping my carbs is completely out of the question. It knocks me out of ketosis and I start getting issues with hypoglycemia and it leads to other complications such as bingeing, inappropriate hunger, food fantacies and mood swings. For me it is just very unpleasant experience. I have been trying to experiment with my diet so that I can "fit in" with our high carb culture, including family and social functions but it just doesn't seem to work for me. I guess I need to know if other people have decided to stay in NK forever? If so what it it like. I don't need to lose any weight, but I am really struggling because I thought other people once they were done losing upped the carbs and their weight stabilized. What do you do if you choose to remain in Nk? Just up the fat? Up the protein? Both? And how do you fit in with our "high carb" culture. If I eat boiled eggs for lunch or a small cesar salad for lunch (no croutons of course) I get accused of having an eating disorder, so I am a bit confused. Do you just ignore weird looks or comments? Do you just eat your lunch in the closet? Low carb as a WOE might as well be a meal from mars. I don't even like going out to restaurants because I have to completely rearrange the menu just to eat out. I usually just end up getting a cesar salad and a coffee because it is the easiest thing to order.

I just don't think I will ever be able to be out of NK, so any moral support/advice from others choosing to follow NK forever would be really appreciated, thanks.
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Old 07-20-2013, 07:05 PM   #2
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Yes, I plan to stay in NK forever, with maybe a higher carb dish (not a meal) a couple of times per year. I don't worry about what other people eat, I just eat what works for me, and no one looks twice at it. Even if they did, so what? They're not in my body. I have to do what works best for me and for my health. I don't talk about my food decisions unless someone is genuinely curious, not disdainful (not that I've experienced it), but I can't imagine allowing someone to make such comments about my lunch. Honestly, if someone thinks eating protein and veggies is so damned weird, that's clearly their issue. Even if ketosis wasn't your aim, there's nothing wrong with it.

To maintain while staying in NK, Drs. Phinney and Volek advise that you keep your carbs and protein at the same level (whatever level you have found works for you), and increase your fat to bring the total calories to maintenance levels.
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Last edited by Ntombi; 07-20-2013 at 07:08 PM..
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Old 07-20-2013, 07:12 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Punkin View Post
I have been experimenting with trying to up my carbs and protein and have learned that upping my carbs is completely out of the question. It knocks me out of ketosis and I start getting issues with hypoglycemia and it leads to other complications such as bingeing, inappropriate hunger, food fantacies and mood swings. For me it is just very unpleasant experience. I have been trying to experiment with my diet so that I can "fit in" with our high carb culture, including family and social functions but it just doesn't seem to work for me. I guess I need to know if other people have decided to stay in NK forever? If so what it it like. I don't need to lose any weight, but I am really struggling because I thought other people once they were done losing upped the carbs and their weight stabilized. What do you do if you choose to remain in Nk? Just up the fat? Up the protein? Both? And how do you fit in with our "high carb" culture. If I eat boiled eggs for lunch or a small cesar salad for lunch (no croutons of course) I get accused of having an eating disorder, so I am a bit confused. Do you just ignore weird looks or comments? Do you just eat your lunch in the closet? Low carb as a WOE might as well be a meal from mars. I don't even like going out to restaurants because I have to completely rearrange the menu just to eat out. I usually just end up getting a cesar salad and a coffee because it is the easiest thing to order.

I just don't think I will ever be able to be out of NK, so any moral support/advice from others choosing to follow NK forever would be really appreciated, thanks.
That is what I will be doing. NK forever. I actually like eating this way. I feel good and I did not feel well eating high carb.
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Old 07-20-2013, 07:49 PM   #4
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Punkin, it's sad to hear you still care what other people think about what you eat. You need to eat in a way that is healthy for you and helps you maintain a healthy weight. If you want to maintain your weight at this point you do need to up the fat. Maybe by a lot. Also, you eating enough protein for your body weight?

I plan to eat low carb, moderate protein, high fat for life, but since I am nowhere near maintenance yet, it is difficult for me to know how hard maintenace will be until I get there.

Last edited by Mistizoom; 07-20-2013 at 07:50 PM..
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Old 07-21-2013, 04:07 AM   #5
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Ntombi, you say you have a high carb meal once or twice a year. Doesn't that kick you out of ketosis? I find lately since I have been experimenting with my diet, I am getting kicked out of ketosis and it results in h#$%! It takes me a couple of days to get back in, but until I do, I feel like what I think addicts go through when they go through withdrawal. I have been experimenting with adding more protein, but now I am wondering if it could be the extra protein which is contributing to me being knocked out of ketosis. I know protein can cause weight loss stalls, but can it also aid in knocking you out of ketosis?

Part of the problem with me is that I seem to be so sensitive to my diet that I end up eating really weird looking meals. Eg. For breakfast a couple of boiled eggs with mayonnaise. I cup of lettuce with a ton of high fat salad dressing. A can of tuna drenched in oil. To other people it looks like I am eating "no calories" which leads to comments like "you aren't eating enough" or "you eat like an anorexic." But the calories do add up to my daily intake. It is just that you eat a lot less volume on a high fat diet. It also doesn't help that I have a really thin upper body, so I do look like I have an eating disorder even though I don't. I don't need to lose any more weight now, just maintain. And that is my goal. Because I have a history of yoyo dieting, NK is probably the answer. Maybe I should be looking at just increasing the fat, and leave the protein and carbs where they were at. I was just so worried about losing more lean body mass, that I wanted to focus on increasing the protein.
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Old 07-21-2013, 07:39 AM   #6
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I've lost weight multiple times yet have never maintained. Obviously I want to maintain my loss this time around.

I plan/hope to stay low carb, not necessarily in ketosis though. It will totally depend on my body when I get to my desired weight range.

Personally I am finding it easier each day to eat low carb and I'm starting to desire those foods.

I understand the concept of keeping the protein/carbs the same and increasing the fat, but honestly, that's what I'm most tired of. Yes, eating full fat dressing and fatty meats and butter is wonderful, but I totally prefer my foods fatty, not adding extra oil. So that is why I do hope I will be able to increase my carbs a small amount, and that will also totally depend on my blood sugar.

I kind of hope I'll be able to raise the carbs a bit and the fat too, I kind of let protein fall where it may.

I'd like to be able to eat the occasional meal out (or special dessert) without fear, just a bit....but if it throws me in a whirlwind (ketosis aside) I will have to learn I just can't, or learn how to deal with that struggle.

We are all definitely learning and experimenting right now. You are just at a different place than us losers as you have to now maintain. And we are all looking to you to see what you do and how you handle your struggles. But I also believe we all have to learn to not care what others think, and yes, that is difficult for some of us (me included). So you aren't alone there.
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Old 07-21-2013, 09:23 AM   #7
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Like you, whenever I try to up my carbs at all I have a tendency to binge (or just eat too much carb, rather than keeping it moderate) and I start gaining weight and feeling terrible. It's not my ideal (I get tired of eating so much fat too) but I don't have a choice to eat this way forever if I want to stay slim and feel well.
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Old 07-21-2013, 09:47 AM   #8
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Is that true for all carbs, Anjikun? Some people seem to do well introducing pumpkin, for example. Curious for more about your experience of upping your carbs. Are you currently at maintenance, or still losing?
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Old 07-21-2013, 10:22 AM   #9
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Punkin, one higher carb dish (not meal) a couple of times per year may or may not knock me out of ketosis, but I plan for it and it doesn't bother me. I don't get cravings or feel as badly as you describe. I do get a stomachache if I eat simple carbs, but that's it. My point is that if I choose to have one particular food when I'm at a favorite restaurant or on a vacation, I will plan for it and then get right back into ketosis. It takes a lot for me to decide to eat off plan, though, because I am firmly committed to staying keto-adapted for the vast majority of my life.

I am able to eat fairly high levels of protein without being kicked out of ketosis; I've never known myself to be kicked out due to protein levels. I know when I'm in ketosis, and I've been in ketosis constantly since the first of the year. When I tested my blood ketones, I ate as many as 180g of protein (my loose daily protein goal is 120g) and my ketone levels were still above 0.5. I know that others report that when they eat too much protein (whatever "too much" means for their body), their ketone levels do drop out of range, so I believe that it happens, but I haven't personally experienced it.

Last edited by Ntombi; 07-21-2013 at 10:25 AM..
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Old 07-21-2013, 01:27 PM   #10
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Ntombi, I guess I am just more sensitive. I frequently drop down to 0.3 blood ketone levels. Although I am not entirely sure whether it is the carbs or protein that causes it. I got the best results when I was eating mostly fat. But another problem with me is that I also seem to have to supplement with MCT oil, otherwise I get hungry. I guess my body tends to store whatever I feed it. I do get really bad symptoms when I seem to drop out of ketosis from I think eating too many carbs. I think it is carb creep. I could try a high carb meal once in awhile and see what happens. How many carbs would you be eating during one of these high carb meals? Is it still less than 50g?
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Old 07-21-2013, 02:31 PM   #11
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Punkin, are you comfortable with how you are eating? If you want more variety, I wish you all the luck in the world making that happen while still meeting your health needs.

If you like your food the way it is, but want to change what you are eating to please others or to get them to leave you alone I would suggest you focus your energy on setting boundaries and/or making new friends. It is no one's business but yours how and what you eat.
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Old 07-21-2013, 03:23 PM   #12
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Punkin, it wouldn't generally be more than 50g at a pop, and I eat super clean the rest of the day. It might be something like kaya toast at my favorite restaraunt in LA, or one slice of really good pizza when I'm back in NYC. Like that. Something that's worth it, not an everyday type of choice.

I also don't look for those opportunities to eat higher carbs. Knowing that I'm in this for the long haul, allowing myself the option to eat off plan a few times per year gives me flexibility, but I don't always need it. Since the beginning of the year, I've been on vacation, eaten out a lot (a lot!), and gone through surgery, all without going out of ketosis. So far, I haven't wanted to eat off plan; I've been perfectly happy. But I know myself well well enough to know that weighing the option is healthy.
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