Low Carb Friends  
Netrition.com - Tools - Reviews - Faces - Recipes - Home


Go Back   Low Carb Friends > Eating and Exercise Plans > Weight Loss Plans > Nutritional Ketosis / High Fat, Low Carb
Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-15-2013, 08:43 PM   #1
Senior LCF Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 133
Gallery: UghNowWhat
Anyone have problems with nuts or seeds?

Like getting kicked out of ketosis or weight loss stalls?

I've read some things on it and the only thing that seems common is that some people easily get addicted to them so they can't control their intake and eat too much....
UghNowWhat is offline   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old 07-16-2013, 03:49 AM   #2
Senior LCF Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 914
Gallery: Punkin
Stats: 160/95/100
WOE: NK or LC
I have trouble with nuts and can't seem to stop at just a few. Nuts contain fructose and are considered a fruit so that could be part of it. However I think there might be more to it. You have to have fairly high circulating blood ketones for your brain not to be susceptible to bingeing so that could be part of it.
Punkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2013, 04:13 AM   #3
Senior LCF Member
 
AnnetteW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Kansas
Posts: 636
Gallery: AnnetteW
Stats: 182/144/135 (5'5", 50 yrs)
WOE: Atkins/NK
Start Date: Restart: May 6, 2013 @ 165lbs
I honestly don't know if they cause me to stall or not as I haven't had a real stall yet, but it sure is easy to eat too many. I'm pretty good about weighing out 1 oz, but I have been known to eat 2 oz in a day.

I didn't know they have fructose in them, interesting.
AnnetteW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2013, 04:42 AM   #4
Very Gabby LCF Member!!!
 
SlowSure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: London/Herts UK
Posts: 3,459
Gallery: SlowSure
Stats: 157/108/105-110 HW 168
WOE: JUDDD Maintenance. Ketogenic PHD.
Start Date: 11 Dec. 2011 Restart 1 Jan 2013
Pistachio, cashew and almonds contain fermentable saccharides that can cause problems for some people with IBS or similar conditions. Some people are OK with a smallish number of almonds but not with more than that as it seems to go over a limit for them.

Not all nuts have been tested/assessed as yet for their sugar content (in a FODMAPs sense). When they are, it will be interesting to see if this is a partial explanation as to why people are differently affected by them (particularly as fructose malabsorption is so common).
SlowSure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2013, 06:12 AM   #5
Chatty Cathy
 
clackley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Ontario
Posts: 16,707
Gallery: clackley
Stats: 228.5/168/125
WOE: N.K.=vlc/hf/moderate protein & organic/pastured
Start Date: Restart Oct 18 2009
The amount of fructose in nuts is tiny compared to other foods (i.e. a cup of pistachios has 160mg compared to a cup of raw apple slices with 6633mg) but if one is over consuming, it could indeed be a factor to consider.

I had never considered that a nut might be a 'fruit' and did a little research. Here is a quote that seems accurate...

Quote:

A nut is a fruit composed of a hard shell and a seed, where the hard-shelled fruit does not open to release the seed (indehiscent). So, while, in a culinary context, a wide variety of dried seeds are often called nuts, in a botanical context, only ones that include the indehiscent fruit are considered true nuts. The translation of "nut" in certain languages frequently requires paraphrases as the concept is ambiguous.
Peanuts are on my never never list as they are too high in carbs and are technically a legume which I avoid.

Last edited by clackley; 07-16-2013 at 06:15 AM..
clackley is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2013, 06:22 AM   #6
Senior LCF Member
 
April04's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: NYC 'burbs
Posts: 351
Gallery: April04
Stats: 216/190/150
WOE: NK 80/15/5
Start Date: April 4, 2013
I will, once a month or so, have 6 Brazil Nuts. I keep them in the refrigerator, and just take my serving out so I don't over indulge. It's a good way to boost my fat in a pinch without any dishes to do. I try and eat them slowly, to make them last.

I tried macadamia nuts, but that didn't work for me, I think I was teetering on the edge of a craving. And due to the carb content of other nuts, I won't try them as I stay at or below 10 g cabs/day.
__________________
Ann

P L A N, for Success!


Nothing is impossible, the word tells you itself:

I'm possible.
April04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2013, 06:34 AM   #7
Very Gabby LCF Member!!!
 
SlowSure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: London/Herts UK
Posts: 3,459
Gallery: SlowSure
Stats: 157/108/105-110 HW 168
WOE: JUDDD Maintenance. Ketogenic PHD.
Start Date: 11 Dec. 2011 Restart 1 Jan 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by clackley View Post
The amount of fructose in nuts is tiny compared to other foods (i.e. a cup of pistachios has 160mg compared to a cup of raw apple slices with 6633mg) but if one is over consuming, it could indeed be a factor to consider.
Just to clarify, I specifically meant my comment in the context of FODMAPs, or fermentable saccharides, which in the case of nuts tend to be fructans (not fructose) or galactans (however, as more nuts are tested, the range of fermentable saccharides in nuts might extend).

FODMAPs aren't fully tolerated by anyone, but they're more problematic for some people than others and they are thought both to trigger hypermobility or hypersensitivity in the gut and then sustain it in some. (It seems some people can eat them and not experience any discomfort although they are affected in some measurable ways.)

There is some tiny speculation in some areas that when people have both fructose malabsorption and a FODMAP sensitivity, then the effect may be additive, and it takes a fairly small quantity of both to trigger gut problems in some.

I've no idea at all whether it may yet prove that, for some people, the relatively small amounts of free simple sugars or fermentable saccharides in some foodstuffs (such as nuts) trigger dysglycaemia, a desire to eat more, or other responses.
SlowSure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2013, 06:51 AM   #8
Way too much time on my hands!
 
emel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: VA
Posts: 17,635
Gallery: emel
Stats: 179.4/158.8/130ish
WOE: Atkins OWL/NK hybrid
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowSure View Post
Just to clarify, I specifically meant my comment in the context of FODMAPs, or fermentable saccharides, which in the case of nuts tend to be fructans (not fructose) or galactans (however, as more nuts are tested, the range of fermentable saccharides in nuts might extend).

FODMAPs aren't fully tolerated by anyone, but they're more problematic for some people than others and they are thought both to trigger hypermobility or hypersensitivity in the gut and then sustain it in some. (It seems some people can eat them and not experience any discomfort although they are affected in some measurable ways.)

There is some tiny speculation in some areas that when people have both fructose malabsorption and a FODMAP sensitivity, then the effect may be additive, and it takes a fairly small quantity of both to trigger gut problems in some.

I've no idea at all whether it may yet prove that, for some people, the relatively small amounts of free simple sugars or fermentable saccharides in some foodstuffs (such as nuts) trigger dysglycaemia, a desire to eat more, or other responses.
Good posts, SS.
There's ways around getting the baddies out of nuts (soaking them, eating only fresh ones). I'll eat 1/2 to 1 oz of walnuts sprinkled over a salad or as a quick or emergency snack. Sometimes I'll use almond butter in recipes to yield 1 to 1.5 tbl per serving.

When we go gathering pecans off the farm land this fall, I'll certainly eat them more frequently. Luckily I don't have a problem with overdoing them.

A lot of LC gurus suggest eating nuts seasonally,instead of relying on them year-round. It's a primal thing.
__________________
Keep calm and carry on.

Last edited by emel; 07-16-2013 at 06:52 AM..
emel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2013, 07:25 AM   #9
Senior LCF Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 151
Gallery: finallylosing
Stats: 206/135/I think I've reached it!
WOE: Bernstein
Start Date: May 2012
I carry cashews or peanuts around with me all the time as my emergency snack! If I get stuck somewhere longer than anticipated at least I have something to eat rather than getting way too hungry and than eating too much or junk food. I am a type 2 and find that I sometimes just need a handful to keep the hunger at bay until I can have a proper meal.
finallylosing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2013, 08:21 AM   #10
Senior LCF Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 133
Gallery: UghNowWhat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Punkin View Post
I have trouble with nuts and can't seem to stop at just a few. Nuts contain fructose and are considered a fruit so that could be part of it. However I think there might be more to it. You have to have fairly high circulating blood ketones for your brain not to be susceptible to bingeing so that could be part of it.
Interesting, never heard of them having "fructose" either. I know for me though it's the salt I can get addicted to. David's brand are the worst.


I've bought raw, unroasted, non-salted, soaked and dehydrated seeds/nuts online and I don't have that problem. Raw, un-salted sunflower seeds were actually kind of gross. They were OK in a salad and it was easy to keep it to serving size since they were covered with dressing.


I wanted to use them regularly for a quick fat boost and they have a decent mineral/nutrition content so it's one less thing I'd have to worry about or supplement with. I think I'll try it again and just continue using the boring, healthy, raw, unsalted kinds.
UghNowWhat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2013, 08:49 AM   #11
Way too much time on my hands!
 
emel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: VA
Posts: 17,635
Gallery: emel
Stats: 179.4/158.8/130ish
WOE: Atkins OWL/NK hybrid
There's nothing wrong with salt as long as you don't overdo the nuts portion.

Put an oz of salted nuts into a little cup and practice eating just that amount. Tasty, good for you, and a good way to boost salt, which we need on a LC plan.
emel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2013, 09:44 AM   #12
Senior LCF Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 133
Gallery: UghNowWhat
Quote:
Originally Posted by emel View Post
There's nothing wrong with salt as long as you don't overdo the nuts portion.
There is for me. I retain water super easy and I easily get addicted to salt.

Last edited by UghNowWhat; 07-16-2013 at 09:50 AM..
UghNowWhat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2013, 10:26 AM   #13
Chatty Cathy
 
clackley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Ontario
Posts: 16,707
Gallery: clackley
Stats: 228.5/168/125
WOE: N.K.=vlc/hf/moderate protein & organic/pastured
Start Date: Restart Oct 18 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowSure View Post
Just to clarify, I specifically meant my comment in the context of FODMAPs, or fermentable saccharides, which in the case of nuts tend to be fructans (not fructose) or galactans (however, as more nuts are tested, the range of fermentable saccharides in nuts might extend).

FODMAPs aren't fully tolerated by anyone, but they're more problematic for some people than others and they are thought both to trigger hypermobility or hypersensitivity in the gut and then sustain it in some. (It seems some people can eat them and not experience any discomfort although they are affected in some measurable ways.)

There is some tiny speculation in some areas that when people have both fructose malabsorption and a FODMAP sensitivity, then the effect may be additive, and it takes a fairly small quantity of both to trigger gut problems in some.

I've no idea at all whether it may yet prove that, for some people, the relatively small amounts of free simple sugars or fermentable saccharides in some foodstuffs (such as nuts) trigger dysglycaemia, a desire to eat more, or other responses.
I am pretty sure I fall into the category of the later (dysglycaemia). However, I am hoping that this can be turned around over time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UghNowWhat View Post
There is for me. I retain water super easy and I easily get addicted to salt.


Quote:
Originally Posted by emel View Post
There's nothing wrong with salt as long as you don't overdo the nuts portion.

Put an oz of salted nuts into a little cup and practice eating just that amount. Tasty, good for you, and a good way to boost salt, which we need on a LC plan.
Emel has it right with the issue of salt. Our bodies need it to function properly.
clackley is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2013, 04:16 PM   #14
Senior LCF Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 463
Gallery: lovetoknit
Quote:
Originally Posted by UghNowWhat View Post
Like getting kicked out of ketosis or weight loss stalls?

I've read some things on it and the only thing that seems common is that some people easily get addicted to them so they can't control their intake and eat too much....

I don't have a problem with eating too many. When I ate them I always weighed them and did not eat more than an oz at a time. I never ate salted nuts, only plain. But having said that, they definitely keep me from losing weight, so I don't eat them.
Carolyn
lovetoknit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2013, 05:51 PM   #15
Major LCF Poster!
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,396
Gallery: Patience
Love them, but don't eat them now.
I am going to have dry roasted pumpkin seeds available on a road trip, as an emergency stash. But I don't like them nearly as much as nuts, my former friends.
Patience is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2013, 08:42 AM   #16
Major LCF Poster!
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,963
Gallery: Auntie Em
WOE: VLC-Pastoral
Start Date: Maintenance since 2000
I rarely eat nuts due to lectins, and PUFA, Omega 6.

I try to keep total PUFA to less than 4% of my total calorie intake.

Example: 1700 cals total at 4% means 68 calories of PUFA. I reckon 10 cals per gram of fat, so that is a mere 6.8 grams of PUFA. There is PUFA in meat, butter, and cream, and in some of my supplements, so no nuts in the food plan for me.

Dr. Kurt Harris's blog post "Fats and Oils", at his blog, Archevore, is informative. Dr. Harris stated that it is all right to copy the posts, if credit is given to him:


FATS AND OILS - LIPIDS

Lipids are fatty acids or compound molecules composed of them. A fat is solid at room temperature and oils are liquid. Lipids are the key to PaNu. It is as much our misunderstanding of lipids as our misguided attachments to grains and fructose that is wreaking havoc with our health.

Saturated fat (SFA)

Saturated fats are generally solid at room temperature. Their saturation with hydrogen atoms makes them solid at room temperature as it affects the shape of the molecules as they pack together. This same saturation means they lack a reactive double bond between carbon atoms. In future posts, I will describe how this makes them less susceptible to oxidation, and therefore less likely to promote coronary disease and other diseases.

SFA does not cause heart disease or cancer and does not make you fat. To the contrary, the hormonal satiety and lack of insulin response from eating fats is the key to weight optimization and avoiding the diseases of civilization caused by hyperinsulinemia and high blood glucose levels - diabetes, metabolic syndrome, degenerative diseases like alzheimer dementia, and many of the commonest cancers.

Think of saturated fat as “anti- fructose” – they are both completely “natural”, but in a modern food abundant environment, SFA is healthy matter and fructose is evil anti-matter. This is the subject of future posts, but it involves satiety and the metabolic meaning of availability of these two food types.

MUFAs – Monounsaturated fatty acids

A monounsaturated fat (MUFA) has a single carbon- carbon double bond. MUFAs have some unique properties in the diet. Their best known source is olive oil, but they are quite abundant in animal fats.

PUFAs – Polyunsaturated fatty acids.

These are fatty acids that have multiple reactive carbon-carbon double bonds. They occur with varying chain lengths but are generally classed by where the first double bond occurs from the end of the molecule, in the Omega 6 position or the Omega 3 position, abbreviated as N-6 and N-3. Much of the biological significance of N-6 and N3 fatty acids relates to their ratio, as they are the precursors for signaling molecules called eicosanoids that affect immune function, among other things. Excess O-6s compete for an enzyme that O-3 metabolism uses as well, and in turn this affects eicosanoid ratios in the body. Both O-6 and O-3 fatty acids are more susceptible to oxidation due to their multiple unsaturated carbon-carbon double bonds, and this also has biological significance, particularly in the process of atherosclerosis.

THE PANU METHOD APPLIED TO OILS

The evolutionary principle would suggest that once we think there might be harm from a particular artificial food, like an oil mechanically extracted from a seed or a nut, we should look for evolutionary discordance or concordance - could humans have eaten it in those amounts?

The method of PaNu is to first use modern tools and reasoning to think about what foods might not be working for us. Then, we mine the past to see if that food shows evidence of evolutionary discordance.

Grains and seed oils - corn, safflower, cotton, peanut, canola, flaxseed (linseed) all fail this test, mostly due to excess N-6 PUFA content.

Step 1: We observe evidence of harm with excess N-6 consumption when we understand the enzyme pathways of eicosanoid production, competitive inhibition of N-3 elongation by excess N-6s, and epidemiologic evidence that shows coronary disease and cancer tracking industrial oil consumption. I have not fully elaborated all these data and arguments yet, but this is where the argument begins.

Step2: Humans could not have had a metabolism dominated by huge amounts of N-6's in the paleolithic period as it would have required industrial technology that did not exist. The predominance of N-6's in our diet comes from mechanical extraction from seed oils. Absent this technology, a human could never get more than a trivial fraction of the N-6s we consume in out modern industrial diets.

Step 2 explains and strengthens our understanding of Step 1 and establishes presumptive evolutionary discordance.

Conclusion: excess seed oil consumption deviates from the EM2.

PaNu suggests we prefer SFA and MUFAs , then minimize overall PUFAs with a ratio appropriate to the EM2. A ratio of N-6:N-3 close to 2:1 is desirable, which suggests complete avoidance of mechanically extracted vegetable oils high in N-6, and if necessary, compensatory supplementation with N-3s via fish or fish oil.

It seems best to limit O-6's to less than 4% of calories - I just calculated mine at 2.75%. See Stephan's post here and some of his other posts for a good discussion of this. If you are above 4% O-6 then supplementing to get to 1% O3 likely has a benefit.

I eat sardines occasionally and I eat cod and non-farmed salmon slathered in butter once a week or so, - I haven't calculated it but I suppose I am getting plenty of 03s without cod liver oil or fish pills.

If you are still getting a lot of seed oils with high O6 levels, you may well need fish oil as a compensatory supplement.

MUFAs AND OLIVE OIL

Olive oil is a bit of a politically correct fad. It has it's origins of course in the supposed mediterranean diet - of which there are several, and of which only some had any olive oil in them. The support for olive oil was the general scheme (not supported by the evidence) that SFA is bad and MUFA and PUFAs were the alternative.

When you eat animal products and have low carbohydrate intake, you are getting huge amounts of MUFA from the animal fat - check out the MUFA content in a steak or in butter and it nearly matches the sat fat. Bone marrow is the big evolutionary source of MUFAs, not cold pressed olive oil. Of course there is some oxidation going on when you cook with olive oil that will defeat the purpose, so I eat it cold for flavor, but I get plenty of MUFA without olive oil in my animal based diet.

NUTS AND NUT OILS

How about nuts? I started out a big nut eater, thinking they were healthy and natural. I've found that they are loaded with carbs, though, and they seem to disturb my gut if I eat a lot of them, due to some lectins, no doubt. After research about fatty acids, I definitely do not view them in some therapeutic way like many seem to. Indeed, I can't think of any particular reason to eat them except to add flavor and interest to salads and other food -that is how I use them.

Nut Oils? Surely they are safer and better than grass seed oils - I use walnut oil and olive for flavor sometimes. Any advantage over butter or ghee or grass fed tallow or lard?

In my opinion, no. Too many PUFAs in nut oils to prefer them to butter and animal fats. Even if not N-6 predominant, PUFA levels in general should be kept low, and nut oils are high in PUFAs.

Eating nut oils in significant quantity depends on industrial technology not available in paleolithic times. Hence, eating bottled nut oil deviates from the EM2, even if not nearly as significantly as grass seed oils.

To summarize our PaNu hierarchy of fats and oils:

1) SFA is best because it is not oxidizable.

2) MUFA is next

3) Total PUFA should be as low as possible. N3 PUFA supplements are for people with too much N-6 PUFA from seed oils.

Animal sources, preferably grass fed or pastured, are the best way to optimize your lipid intake.

Overall, the biggies for discordance remain:

1 Cereal grains (Lectins, phytates, gliadin proteins)

2 Fructose as a high % of calories in a food abundant environment (Hormonal effects)

3 High N-6 PUFA consumption (imbalanced eicosanoid production with immune dsyfunction, inflammation and cancer promotion)

4 Inadequate animal fat intake might be #5, as it is both the consequence of and much of the solution to 1-3.

My approach remains somewhat that of a finger-wagging killjoy - "don't eat that" is just not as much fun as "eat this magic pill or supplement and you'll be healthier" and I am sure that's not the way to sell the most books. It also won't help you much if you are marketing supplements or expensive drugs. If you don't already like meat, seafood, eggs, cream and butter, there is not much emotional upside to my approach. It's not really that exciting to say "Hey, guess what I don't eat!" Even were you to show up naked to a party, you simply could not be more of a social freak than to refuse bread, beer, crackers, chips, and a slice of your neighbor's kid's birthday cake, and eat your burger rolled up like a tortilla with cheddar cheese and a slice of tomato.

But, there it is. If we are not in the business of marketing or politics, we must go where the evidence leads us.
__________________
Maintainers Over 55



Best wishes for happy, healthy LCing.

Last edited by Auntie Em; 07-19-2013 at 08:43 AM.. Reason: corrected error
Auntie Em is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2013, 04:55 PM   #17
Major LCF Poster!
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,586
Gallery: Mistizoom
Stats: 300/200/190 initial goal
WOE: low carb
Start Date: November 2012
I usually eat one ounce of nuts (usually almonds) or peanuts (less frequently) per day with no issues.
Mistizoom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2013, 02:39 PM   #18
Senior LCF Member
 
MandyDawn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Tulsa, OK
Posts: 90
Gallery: MandyDawn
Stats: 336/252/250 (mini goal)
WOE: Back on Atkins as of 6/14/13
Start Date: Originally, July 2011
I've been searching the internet for information on nuts and seeds and weight loss. I've recently went back to my atkins-style low carb diet because it's what works for me. I followed induction for a few weeks, but have since added in nuts. I too have a hard time not overeating them. I took a bunch of mixed nuts in a baggy to the movies to eat instead of popcorn and ended up eating the entire can (9 servings) in 3 days. I lost 4 pounds that week compared to 2 pounds the week before. I have since bought more nuts and have been eating them like crazy and so far I've been losing. I follow a very low carb diet the rest of the time. I guess I'm doing my own experiment to see how they affect me. I've read some articles that say they actually increase your metabolism and that your body doesn't absorb all of the calories from them. Yesterday I took the kids to the movies again and ended up eating a lot more mixed nuts than I intended to. I'm trying my best to keep track of everything I'm eating on *** app on my phone. I can tell you that my calories were waaaayyy over yesterday, but I weighed over a pound less this morning. I plan on continuing my experiment awhile longer to see if over a couple of weeks whether I'm still losing. I occasionally have a spoonful of smucker's natural peanut butter, but for the most part I'm just eating salted mixed nuts and I also have a bag of walnuts that I occasionally snack on. The majority of my calories are coming from nuts so I'm curious to see what happens.
MandyDawn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2013, 03:35 PM   #19
Major LCF Poster!
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,396
Gallery: Patience
I hope it works for you. Nuts done me in.

Last edited by Patience; 07-27-2013 at 03:37 PM..
Patience is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2013, 11:36 AM   #20
Senior LCF Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 463
Gallery: lovetoknit
Quote:
Originally Posted by UghNowWhat View Post
There is for me. I retain water super easy and I easily get addicted to salt.
If you eat more salt and drink more water, your body will actually release water. It will not have to hoard it. Our bodies protect us from dehydration. Also potassium helps the body regulate itself.
Carolyn
lovetoknit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2013, 11:39 AM   #21
Senior LCF Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 463
Gallery: lovetoknit
Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyDawn View Post
I've been searching the internet for information on nuts and seeds and weight loss. I've recently went back to my atkins-style low carb diet because it's what works for me. I followed induction for a few weeks, but have since added in nuts. I too have a hard time not overeating them. I took a bunch of mixed nuts in a baggy to the movies to eat instead of popcorn and ended up eating the entire can (9 servings) in 3 days. I lost 4 pounds that week compared to 2 pounds the week before. I have since bought more nuts and have been eating them like crazy and so far I've been losing. I follow a very low carb diet the rest of the time. I guess I'm doing my own experiment to see how they affect me. I've read some articles that say they actually increase your metabolism and that your body doesn't absorb all of the calories from them. Yesterday I took the kids to the movies again and ended up eating a lot more mixed nuts than I intended to. I'm trying my best to keep track of everything I'm eating on *** app on my phone. I can tell you that my calories were waaaayyy over yesterday, but I weighed over a pound less this morning. I plan on continuing my experiment awhile longer to see if over a couple of weeks whether I'm still losing. I occasionally have a spoonful of smucker's natural peanut butter, but for the most part I'm just eating salted mixed nuts and I also have a bag of walnuts that I occasionally snack on. The majority of my calories are coming from nuts so I'm curious to see what happens.
That is wonderful! I wish I could do that. Nuts actually make me gain. Even a very small amount. I have heard of people eating a lot of nuts and staying thin, so I believe it.
Carolyn
lovetoknit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2013, 08:09 AM   #22
Senior LCF Member
 
MandyDawn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Tulsa, OK
Posts: 90
Gallery: MandyDawn
Stats: 336/252/250 (mini goal)
WOE: Back on Atkins as of 6/14/13
Start Date: Originally, July 2011
Stayed the same over the weekend. I bought another can of mixed nuts and had some yesterday and this morning. I'll try it again this week and let you know the results.
MandyDawn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2013, 12:05 PM   #23
Senior LCF Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 133
Gallery: UghNowWhat
Mandy, similar thing happened to me last week. I ate a bag of "trail mix" which was mixed nuts and some dried berries... unsalted..6 grams of carbs per serving. Next morning I was down 2lbs. That day I at least doubled my calorie and carb intake.

I'm eating 2 spoonfuls of almond butter a day and still losing so I'm going to stick with this for a bit longer before adding in anything else. I use some website which keeps track of all the nutrients I'm getting. The few things I am really lacking in like manganese and Vitamin E, I can get from nuts or seeds and rather do that then buy a supplement. I do eat a variety of vegetables but I don't want spinach every single day.

I think all the calories not being absorbed has to do with the fact most people don't chew them well so they come back out in pieces or whole..kind of like corn. They just go right through you and don't actually digest.

Last edited by UghNowWhat; 07-29-2013 at 12:10 PM..
UghNowWhat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2013, 08:55 AM   #24
Senior LCF Member
 
MandyDawn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Tulsa, OK
Posts: 90
Gallery: MandyDawn
Stats: 336/252/250 (mini goal)
WOE: Back on Atkins as of 6/14/13
Start Date: Originally, July 2011
Down a pound this morning. I ran out of nuts yesterday. I flew through that last can. It's way too easy to just grab that can and start snacking on them. I made the mistake of taking them to work and kept grabbing them off and on during the day and finished them off before I left. I ate pretty light at lunch and dinner though, probably because I wasn't too hungry with all those nuts lol. I don't know if I'll make it to the store today to buy another can of nuts or not. I think I'm starting to get burnt out on them. I have some peanut butter in the fridge, so I might grab a spoonful later for a snack.

UghNowWhat - That's interesting about them not getting absorbed because they're not chewed well. It makes sense though. If that's the case then snacking on the creamy peanut butter might not be as good as eating the whole nuts.
MandyDawn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2013, 11:16 PM   #25
Senior LCF Member
 
MerryKate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Sequim, WA
Posts: 687
Gallery: MerryKate
Stats: 252/196.5/150
WOE: Nutritional ketosis
Start Date: April 2011
MandyDawn, that's pretty cool. Sounds like the mixed nut diet is working for you. But be careful with the peanut butter - most of the major manufacturers put sugar in their peanut butter, including Smuckers. I know Maranatha and Adam's are sugar-free.

I generally have to avoid peanuts - they're a major trigger for me. I could eat half a jar of Skippy's natural peanut butter in one sitting (and I've come close at times). I think it's because peanuts are legumes - none of the other nuts cause me problems.
MerryKate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2013, 05:57 AM   #26
Senior LCF Member
 
MandyDawn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Tulsa, OK
Posts: 90
Gallery: MandyDawn
Stats: 336/252/250 (mini goal)
WOE: Back on Atkins as of 6/14/13
Start Date: Originally, July 2011
I have to say I seemed to do better with the whole nuts than with the peanut butter. I burnt myself out on them and now I'm experimenting with the meat and eggs diet to see if I can lose a lot before the end of the weight loss challenge at work, so far so good
MandyDawn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2013, 06:49 AM   #27
Senior LCF Member
 
lazy girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Amarillo, Texas
Posts: 374
Gallery: lazy girl
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auntie Em View Post
I rarely eat nuts due to lectins, and PUFA, Omega 6.

I try to keep total PUFA to less than 4% of my total calorie intake.

Example: 1700 cals total at 4% means 68 calories of PUFA. I reckon 10 cals per gram of fat, so that is a mere 6.8 grams of PUFA. There is PUFA in meat, butter, and cream, and in some of my supplements, so no nuts in the food plan for me.

Dr. Kurt Harris's blog post "Fats and Oils", at his blog, Archevore, is informative. Dr. Harris stated that it is all right to copy the posts, if credit is given to him:


FATS AND OILS - LIPIDS

Lipids are fatty acids or compound molecules composed of them. A fat is solid at room temperature and oils are liquid. Lipids are the key to PaNu. It is as much our misunderstanding of lipids as our misguided attachments to grains and fructose that is wreaking havoc with our health.

Saturated fat (SFA)

Saturated fats are generally solid at room temperature. Their saturation with hydrogen atoms makes them solid at room temperature as it affects the shape of the molecules as they pack together. This same saturation means they lack a reactive double bond between carbon atoms. In future posts, I will describe how this makes them less susceptible to oxidation, and therefore less likely to promote coronary disease and other diseases.

SFA does not cause heart disease or cancer and does not make you fat. To the contrary, the hormonal satiety and lack of insulin response from eating fats is the key to weight optimization and avoiding the diseases of civilization caused by hyperinsulinemia and high blood glucose levels - diabetes, metabolic syndrome, degenerative diseases like alzheimer dementia, and many of the commonest cancers.

Think of saturated fat as “anti- fructose” – they are both completely “natural”, but in a modern food abundant environment, SFA is healthy matter and fructose is evil anti-matter. This is the subject of future posts, but it involves satiety and the metabolic meaning of availability of these two food types.

MUFAs – Monounsaturated fatty acids

A monounsaturated fat (MUFA) has a single carbon- carbon double bond. MUFAs have some unique properties in the diet. Their best known source is olive oil, but they are quite abundant in animal fats.

PUFAs – Polyunsaturated fatty acids.

These are fatty acids that have multiple reactive carbon-carbon double bonds. They occur with varying chain lengths but are generally classed by where the first double bond occurs from the end of the molecule, in the Omega 6 position or the Omega 3 position, abbreviated as N-6 and N-3. Much of the biological significance of N-6 and N3 fatty acids relates to their ratio, as they are the precursors for signaling molecules called eicosanoids that affect immune function, among other things. Excess O-6s compete for an enzyme that O-3 metabolism uses as well, and in turn this affects eicosanoid ratios in the body. Both O-6 and O-3 fatty acids are more susceptible to oxidation due to their multiple unsaturated carbon-carbon double bonds, and this also has biological significance, particularly in the process of atherosclerosis.

THE PANU METHOD APPLIED TO OILS

The evolutionary principle would suggest that once we think there might be harm from a particular artificial food, like an oil mechanically extracted from a seed or a nut, we should look for evolutionary discordance or concordance - could humans have eaten it in those amounts?

The method of PaNu is to first use modern tools and reasoning to think about what foods might not be working for us. Then, we mine the past to see if that food shows evidence of evolutionary discordance.

Grains and seed oils - corn, safflower, cotton, peanut, canola, flaxseed (linseed) all fail this test, mostly due to excess N-6 PUFA content.

Step 1: We observe evidence of harm with excess N-6 consumption when we understand the enzyme pathways of eicosanoid production, competitive inhibition of N-3 elongation by excess N-6s, and epidemiologic evidence that shows coronary disease and cancer tracking industrial oil consumption. I have not fully elaborated all these data and arguments yet, but this is where the argument begins.

Step2: Humans could not have had a metabolism dominated by huge amounts of N-6's in the paleolithic period as it would have required industrial technology that did not exist. The predominance of N-6's in our diet comes from mechanical extraction from seed oils. Absent this technology, a human could never get more than a trivial fraction of the N-6s we consume in out modern industrial diets.

Step 2 explains and strengthens our understanding of Step 1 and establishes presumptive evolutionary discordance.

Conclusion: excess seed oil consumption deviates from the EM2.

PaNu suggests we prefer SFA and MUFAs , then minimize overall PUFAs with a ratio appropriate to the EM2. A ratio of N-6:N-3 close to 2:1 is desirable, which suggests complete avoidance of mechanically extracted vegetable oils high in N-6, and if necessary, compensatory supplementation with N-3s via fish or fish oil.

It seems best to limit O-6's to less than 4% of calories - I just calculated mine at 2.75%. See Stephan's post here and some of his other posts for a good discussion of this. If you are above 4% O-6 then supplementing to get to 1% O3 likely has a benefit.

I eat sardines occasionally and I eat cod and non-farmed salmon slathered in butter once a week or so, - I haven't calculated it but I suppose I am getting plenty of 03s without cod liver oil or fish pills.

If you are still getting a lot of seed oils with high O6 levels, you may well need fish oil as a compensatory supplement.

MUFAs AND OLIVE OIL

Olive oil is a bit of a politically correct fad. It has it's origins of course in the supposed mediterranean diet - of which there are several, and of which only some had any olive oil in them. The support for olive oil was the general scheme (not supported by the evidence) that SFA is bad and MUFA and PUFAs were the alternative.

When you eat animal products and have low carbohydrate intake, you are getting huge amounts of MUFA from the animal fat - check out the MUFA content in a steak or in butter and it nearly matches the sat fat. Bone marrow is the big evolutionary source of MUFAs, not cold pressed olive oil. Of course there is some oxidation going on when you cook with olive oil that will defeat the purpose, so I eat it cold for flavor, but I get plenty of MUFA without olive oil in my animal based diet.

NUTS AND NUT OILS

How about nuts? I started out a big nut eater, thinking they were healthy and natural. I've found that they are loaded with carbs, though, and they seem to disturb my gut if I eat a lot of them, due to some lectins, no doubt. After research about fatty acids, I definitely do not view them in some therapeutic way like many seem to. Indeed, I can't think of any particular reason to eat them except to add flavor and interest to salads and other food -that is how I use them.

Nut Oils? Surely they are safer and better than grass seed oils - I use walnut oil and olive for flavor sometimes. Any advantage over butter or ghee or grass fed tallow or lard?

In my opinion, no. Too many PUFAs in nut oils to prefer them to butter and animal fats. Even if not N-6 predominant, PUFA levels in general should be kept low, and nut oils are high in PUFAs.

Eating nut oils in significant quantity depends on industrial technology not available in paleolithic times. Hence, eating bottled nut oil deviates from the EM2, even if not nearly as significantly as grass seed oils.

To summarize our PaNu hierarchy of fats and oils:

1) SFA is best because it is not oxidizable.

2) MUFA is next

3) Total PUFA should be as low as possible. N3 PUFA supplements are for people with too much N-6 PUFA from seed oils.

Animal sources, preferably grass fed or pastured, are the best way to optimize your lipid intake.

Overall, the biggies for discordance remain:

1 Cereal grains (Lectins, phytates, gliadin proteins)

2 Fructose as a high % of calories in a food abundant environment (Hormonal effects)

3 High N-6 PUFA consumption (imbalanced eicosanoid production with immune dsyfunction, inflammation and cancer promotion)

4 Inadequate animal fat intake might be #5, as it is both the consequence of and much of the solution to 1-3.

My approach remains somewhat that of a finger-wagging killjoy - "don't eat that" is just not as much fun as "eat this magic pill or supplement and you'll be healthier" and I am sure that's not the way to sell the most books. It also won't help you much if you are marketing supplements or expensive drugs. If you don't already like meat, seafood, eggs, cream and butter, there is not much emotional upside to my approach. It's not really that exciting to say "Hey, guess what I don't eat!" Even were you to show up naked to a party, you simply could not be more of a social freak than to refuse bread, beer, crackers, chips, and a slice of your neighbor's kid's birthday cake, and eat your burger rolled up like a tortilla with cheddar cheese and a slice of tomato.

But, there it is. If we are not in the business of marketing or politics, we must go where the evidence leads us.
Thank you, Auntie Em for this fine quote. I will be adding Harris' blog to my reading list in my attempt to starve cancer through my diet.
lazy girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2013, 04:57 PM   #28
Way too much time on my hands!
 
emel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: VA
Posts: 17,635
Gallery: emel
Stats: 179.4/158.8/130ish
WOE: Atkins OWL/NK hybrid
I don't have a problem with limiting the portions. I do fine on walnuts, almonds, and pumpkin seeds, and I've also been fine on the few pecans I've eaten. I do watch the portion sizes on recipes with almond flour and almond butter. I don't eat almond butter as a food--- I use it as a recipe ingredient.

Flax stalls me---that's a weird one. I can't think of anyone else who says flax doesn't work. I don't do peanuts or cashews. I have not tried other nuts but I'm willing to try macadmeas, filberts, and black walnuts. I think a tiny occasional portion of brazil nuts would be okay for the nutrients, but I don't care for them.
emel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2013, 06:33 PM   #29
Senior LCF Member
 
AnnetteW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Kansas
Posts: 636
Gallery: AnnetteW
Stats: 182/144/135 (5'5", 50 yrs)
WOE: Atkins/NK
Start Date: Restart: May 6, 2013 @ 165lbs
Emel, I was going to do a flax pancake each morning next week for breakfast. I'm already sorta stalling, so it can't hurt. I'm tired of eggs right now. Next week I'll be tired of flax pancakes.

I had 3 T of flax this morning, 2 T of sunflower seeds with my salad at lunch, and 1 oz of almonds as a snack. Along with my veggies today, lots of fiber.
AnnetteW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2013, 10:26 AM   #30
Major LCF Poster!
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,963
Gallery: Auntie Em
WOE: VLC-Pastoral
Start Date: Maintenance since 2000
Lazy Girl, I wish you happy success! I'm sending you lots of healthy thoughts and best wishes.
Auntie Em is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:55 PM.


Copyright ©1999-2014 Friends Forums LLC. All rights reserved. - Terms of Service | Privacy Policy
LowCarbFriends® is a registered mark of Friends Forums, LLC.