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-   -   Advice please (http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/nutritional-ketosis-high-fat-low-carb/807381-advice-please.html)

JKat 07-04-2013 03:08 AM

Advice please
 
I am eating way way too much protein. I have been doing Atkins really low carb around 10 and not in ketosis. I have double checked and no hidden carbs.

I am trying to find what will work for me. I am 44 5'3 150..... I am struggling!!
Like lots of others my dad has been very sick the last 4 months so in and out of hospital eating cafeteria food which I thought I was making good choices. Now honestly I have not gained any weight in 4 months. I am going to look at it as a victory.

Trying to c if this plan is for me ? What is the name of the book?? I am also looking at eat fat get thin by Barry groves.

Thank u for listening to me vent. I need to find what works for me !!!

drjlocarb 07-04-2013 05:06 AM

:welcome:

The Keto-calculator shows 60-116g of protein depending on how active you are.

The book is "The Art and Science of Low Carb Living", by Phinney and Volek.

iamkathy01 07-04-2013 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JKat (Post 16499542)
I am eating way way too much protein. I have been doing Atkins really low carb around 10 and not in ketosis. I have double checked and no hidden carbs.

I am trying to find what will work for me. I am 44 5'3 150..... I am struggling!!
Like lots of others my dad has been very sick the last 4 months so in and out of hospital eating cafeteria food which I thought I was making good choices. Now honestly I have not gained any weight in 4 months. I am going to look at it as a victory.

Trying to c if this plan is for me ? What is the name of the book?? I am also looking at eat fat get thin by Barry groves.

Thank u for listening to me vent. I need to find what works for me !!!


Jody I bet it will work, you just need to fine tune what you are doing! Many of us here (myself included) use an online program to keep track of their food, (fat/calories/protein/carbs) ;). It is amazing to watch how all of it can creep up in a days time. Many of us have found that our protein or even veggies can throw us right out of ketosis, which is shocking since many of us are also long time Atkins followers! :( So it may not be the CARBS that are keeping you out of ketosis, but the protein or veggies! Lots of great information here (and GREAT PEOPLE) that will help you along and cheer you on! :) and :welcome:
Kathy

AnnetteW 07-04-2013 06:29 AM

Jodi, so sorry to hear about your father, that is very stressful. Which is something else that can be influencing your weightloss. The stress and high cortisol can keep that weight on, even if you are doing other things right.

Congrats at not gaining, you are right, that is a major success.

You can find lots of info on NK just by searching online, check youtube for videos by Stephen Phinney and Jeff Volek.

A protein calculation I see a lot is your goal weight (in kg) and the protein at 1 - 1.5 gram per kg.

My goal is 130, in kg that's 130/2.2, which is 59, so my protein range is 59-88 grams (I think 60-90, close enough). I'm trying to stay on the lower range for now.

lovetoknit 07-04-2013 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JKat (Post 16499542)
I am eating way way too much protein. I have been doing Atkins really low carb around 10 and not in ketosis. I have double checked and no hidden carbs.

I am trying to find what will work for me. I am 44 5'3 150..... I am struggling!!
Like lots of others my dad has been very sick the last 4 months so in and out of hospital eating cafeteria food which I thought I was making good choices. Now honestly I have not gained any weight in 4 months. I am going to look at it as a victory.

Trying to c if this plan is for me ? What is the name of the book?? I am also looking at eat fat get thin by Barry groves.

Thank u for listening to me vent. I need to find what works for me !!!

First of all, the "Trick or Treat" book by Barry groves is the best and newest version. It has new information in it. Cafeteria food can have hidden carbs in it. You don't know what kind of seasoning they use. The seasoning could have sugar and msg in it. At your weight, you probably do not need more than 60 grams of protein a day. Also make sure you are not cutting your calories too much. You should eat at least 1200 calories a day to maintain your metabolism. Add calories by adding fat. You might try eliminating artificial sweeteners. Sometimes they can cause an insulin effect. Some people have to count all their carbs and not just net carbs. I can only eat not more than 5 grams of carb. per meal, and I count even fiber. I am one of those that fiber does affect.
Carolyn

iamkathy01 07-04-2013 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lovetoknit (Post 16500170)
First of all, the "Trick or Treat" book by Barry groves is the best and newest version. It has new information in it. Cafeteria food can have hidden carbs in it. You don't know what kind of seasoning they use. The seasoning could have sugar and msg in it. At your weight, you probably do not need more than 60 grams of protein a day. Also make sure you are not cutting your calories too much. You should eat at least 1200 calories a day to maintain your metabolism. Add calories by adding fat. You might try eliminating artificial sweeteners. Sometimes they can cause an insulin effect. Some people have to count all their carbs and not just net carbs. I can only eat not more than 5 grams of carb. per meal, and I count even fiber. I am one of those that fiber does affect.
Carolyn

Carolyn I have not read this book- the latest one is 2008??? Kindle edition? Is there an updated version that you know of? Thanks! Kathy

JKat 07-04-2013 01:20 PM

thank u all for your replies!!

I am ordering the book on line because my Nook doesn't have and neither does the book store. Bummer!!!

So basically at my weight about 60gms of protein and the rest mostly fat with fiberious veggies. Are there any rules??? It does seem like atkins except watching my protein intake also....

So far today I have eaten

Morning prior to work coffee, heavy cream total 2tablespoon and 1tsp butter

mid morning.. 2cups spinach, 2 hard boiled eggs, 1 tablespoon of maria's Caesar dressing and 0.5 tablespoon of Olive oil

Lunch 3oz shrimp boiled, 2tablespoons Caesar, 1tablespoon of olive oil, 8oz of romaine lettuce, 2cups spinach and coffee with 1tsp oil

Per ****** so far today 880 calories, fat 76 carbs 9.5, and protein 40gms

Plan for dinner more fat and salad with 25-30gms protein (This is the hard part for me..)

any comment or advice would be appreciated!
In looking back at my ****** I was eating at times close to 150gms protein...Wow I hope this is why I am not in ketosis and why I am so stuck and not looseing

iamkathy01 07-04-2013 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JKat (Post 16500249)
thank u all for your replies!!

I am ordering the book on line because my Nook doesn't have and neither does the book store. Bummer!!!

So basically at my weight about 60gms of protein and the rest mostly fat with fiberious veggies. Are there any rules??? It does seem like atkins except watching my protein intake also....

So far today I have eaten

Morning prior to work coffee, heavy cream total 2tablespoon and 1tsp butter

mid morning.. 2cups spinach, 2 hard boiled eggs, 1 tablespoon of maria's Caesar dressing and 0.5 tablespoon of Olive oil

Lunch 3oz shrimp boiled, 2tablespoons Caesar, 1tablespoon of olive oil, 8oz of romaine lettuce, 2cups spinach and coffee with 1tsp oil

Per ****** so far today 880 calories, fat 76 carbs 9.5, and protein 40gms

Plan for dinner more fat and salad with 25-30gms protein (This is the hard part for me..)

any comment or advice would be appreciated!
In looking back at my ****** I was eating at times close to 150gms protein...Wow I hope this is why I am not in ketosis and why I am so stuck and not looseing

Your mileage may vary, but if I ate that much in veggies I would be thrown right out of ketosis! I ate about two cups of a lettuce salad earlier this week and was out of ketosis the next AM. It is extremely hard to balance the protein/veggies/and fat! That is why you just HAVE to use something to calculate it all, know what it is and then when you test you can look back and know what is triggering either staying in or going out. Does that make sense :) Kathy

JKat 07-04-2013 05:42 PM

Yea it does make sense. So basically I have to figure out how high I can go with carbs. Keep protein at around 60 gms then the rest of my calories from fat.

Isn't this really Atkins induction??

iamkathy01 07-04-2013 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JKat (Post 16500476)
Yea it does make sense. So basically I have to figure out how high I can go with carbs. Keep protein at around 60 gms then the rest of my calories from fat.

Isn't this really Atkins induction??

In a word no! :). Atkins is tons of protein and almost unlimited
Veggies. When you track your protein you will be shocked at how little protein is in 50-60 grams. Do you have a scale to weigh your food?? Kathy

Ntombi 07-04-2013 06:03 PM

They're very similar, yes.

I eat only the foods allowed in Atkins induction, and say that I'm doing Atkins except that I won't be climbing the carb ladder very far, and I plan to be in ketosis for life.

Some people eat slightly more than is allowed on the induction list, but it's still similar.

The biggest difference, IMO, is in how one maintains. With NK, you keep carbs and protein stable, and add fat to get to a maintenance level of calories. With Atkins, you can do that, or you can increase carbs as you lower fat and find the sweet spot there.

But in the beginning, yes, similar.

BTW, if you google "keto calculator," the first link is to a calculator that might help you figure out a range of grams of protein, carbs, and fat that might work for you.

It helps to know your lean body mass (everything that's not fat), because that can help set a good protein goal. For example, my LBM is 154 lbs (I've had it tested), so I eat a higher level of protein than some, to feed the muscles and keep it as I lose excess fat. My protein range is about 99-191g, and my loose protein goal is 135g. For some people, that's not enough, and for others it's way too much.

Even if you don't know for sure, you can estimate based on frame size and other factors, on various sites. Even a rough estimate can help.

Ntombi 07-04-2013 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamkathy01 (Post 16500487)
In a word no! :). Atkins is tons of protein and almost unlimited
Veggies. When you track your protein you will be shocked at how little protein is in 50-60 grams. Do you have a scale to weigh your food?? Kathy

Atkins was never tons of protein and never unlimited (eating to satisfaction is different from unlimited). In every book he wrote and after, Dr. Atkins and those who wrote the books after his death have always said that you cannot overeat protein. He explained very clearly that excess protein was turned to glucose in the body, and could be harmful to ketosis.

Some people chose to ignore that and call it a high protein diet, but it never was.

lovetoknit 07-04-2013 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamkathy01 (Post 16500228)
Carolyn I have not read this book- the latest one is 2008??? Kindle edition? Is there an updated version that you know of? Thanks! Kathy

Trick or Treat is the newest one. I really enjoyed this book. I highly recommend it. He passed away this year.
Carolyn

iamkathy01 07-04-2013 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ntombi (Post 16500502)
Atkins was never tons of protein and never unlimited (eating to satisfaction is different from unlimited). In every book he wrote and after, Dr. Atkins and those who wrote the books after his death have always said that you cannot overeat protein. He explained very clearly that excess protein was turned to glucose in the body, and could be harmful to ketosis.

Some people chose to ignore that and call it a high protein diet, but it never was.

I always preferred to think of it as adequate protein, but on NK I eat far less protein! Kathy

Ntombi 07-04-2013 07:01 PM

Absolutely understandable, but as written, Atkins is not high or unlimited protein. That's all I'm saying. :shake:

iamkathy01 07-04-2013 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ntombi (Post 16500547)
Absolutely understandable, but as written, Atkins is not high or unlimited protein. That's all I'm saying. :shake:

I hear ya :)

Grateful_Love 07-05-2013 12:22 AM

I wish it WAS unlimited protein! I don't know how to up my fats and lower my proteins and keep my carbs under 20 all at once. I guess that's what I'm here for. It's like I can keep myself in ketosis for a week, and then seemingly out of nowhere I pee on the ketostick and get a whopping disappointment.

Any pointers? I read about a Meat and Eggs fast and I was about to start tomorrow, but then I read this, and now I'm afraid the proteins will keep me stuck.

JKat 07-05-2013 02:52 AM

Thank all for your replies. So it seems u just kinda have to figure your numbers out keeping fat high protein steady and figure out how many carbs u can tolerate

I ended my day yesterday
Calories 1660

Fat 136
Carbs 17
Protein 88

77%fat 22% protein 4%carbs

I also did water aerobics

Is this a good start point ?? I wat to be in the same area for a couple days and c if I go into ketosis. Stick was negative this morning. I am assuming it takes a couple days for y body to switch over

Ntombi 07-05-2013 07:06 AM

That sounds like a good start. :)

Remember, though, that some people NEVER register positive on the ketostix. They're notoriously unreliable. It sounds like you meant ketostix, which uses urine, not the blood ketone strips, which use blood. The ketostix work for some people, but not all, because there are a bunch of factors that go into registering positive via urine.

lovetoknit 07-05-2013 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grateful_Love (Post 16500675)
I wish it WAS unlimited protein! I don't know how to up my fats and lower my proteins and keep my carbs under 20 all at once. I guess that's what I'm here for. It's like I can keep myself in ketosis for a week, and then seemingly out of nowhere I pee on the ketostick and get a whopping disappointment.

Any pointers? I read about a Meat and Eggs fast and I was about to start tomorrow, but then I read this, and now I'm afraid the proteins will keep me stuck.

There are many ways to up your fat in your diet. Eat the chicken skin, eat higher fat meats, and actually eat the fat, add butter to your vegetables, saute your meats in butter, olive oil, or coconut oil, eat more egg yokes than whites by throwing away some of the whites, drink cream in your coffee or tea, eat cream cheese on some celery. These are just a few ideas.
Carolyn

iamkathy01 07-05-2013 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lovetoknit (Post 16501393)
There are many ways to up your fat in your diet. Eat the chicken skin, eat higher fat meats, and actually eat the fat, add butter to your vegetables, saute your meats in butter, olive oil, or coconut oil, eat more egg yokes than whites by throwing away some of the whites, drink cream in your coffee or tea, eat cream cheese on some celery. These are just a few ideas.
Carolyn

I'll take more if you got 'em Carolyn!
Kathy

lovetoknit 07-05-2013 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamkathy01 (Post 16501511)
I'll take more if you got 'em Carolyn!
Kathy

Ok. Here goes. Some people add butter to their cheese. Also some add butter and coconut oil to their coffee or tea. I like coconut oil in coffee, but not butter. I make chocolate candy by adding a tsp of unsweetened cocoa powder to melted coconut oil and then add a drop or two of liquid sweetener. This also works with unsalted butter instead of the coconut oil. I also fry my eggs in butter. Also I eat chocolate whipped cream and sometimes I have whipped cream cheese and whipped cream mixed together. Also sometimes I will add 1 T of cream cheese, 1 T of sour cream, and a drop of liquid sweetener together. It tastes like cheese cake. I guess that is it for now. If I think of anything else I will share.
Carolyn

iamkathy01 07-05-2013 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lovetoknit (Post 16501677)
Ok. Here goes. Some people add butter to their cheese. Also some add butter and coconut oil to their coffee or tea. I like coconut oil in coffee, but not butter. I make chocolate candy by adding a tsp of unsweetened cocoa powder to melted coconut oil and then add a drop or two of liquid sweetener. This also works with unsalted butter instead of the coconut oil. I also fry my eggs in butter. Also I eat chocolate whipped cream and sometimes I have whipped cream cheese and whipped cream mixed together. Also sometimes I will add 1 T of cream cheese, 1 T of sour cream, and a drop of liquid sweetener together. It tastes like cheese cake. I guess that is it for now. If I think of anything else I will share.
Carolyn

Oh wow, great ideas! I've been meaning to try your 4 oz of HWC and cocoa too! These are keepers! Thank you and yes if you think of more.... :) Kathy

Hot Potato 07-06-2013 05:34 AM

I make fat bombs with coconut oil, cream cheese, peanut butter, a square or two of dark Lindt choc (85%), vanilla.
I also cover veg with blue cheese sauce made from cream, blue cheese and garlic (melt together in saucepan).

lovetoknit 07-06-2013 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hot Potato (Post 16502139)
I make fat bombs with coconut oil, cream cheese, peanut butter, a square or two of dark Lindt choc (85%), vanilla.
I also cover veg with blue cheese sauce made from cream, blue cheese and garlic (melt together in saucepan).

I too eat cream cheese by itself once in a while. That blue cheese sauce sounds good. I will have to try that.

lovetoknit 07-06-2013 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamkathy01 (Post 16501807)
Oh wow, great ideas! I've been meaning to try your 4 oz of HWC and cocoa too! These are keepers! Thank you and yes if you think of more.... :) Kathy


Chocolate whipped cream is my favorite. :)
Carolyn

Grateful_Love 07-08-2013 09:51 PM

Thank you for the sweet treat ideas--TOM is here, so these little chocolate gems will be on my "to buy for" list. I think TOM might be why the scale wasn't moving.

The cream cheese/sourcream/sweetener cheesecake idea sounds perfect. I might sprinkle on some cocoa powder, too.

One thing I love about this whole low-carb lifestyle is finding ways to make "traditional" foods new ways. It's like a game of strategy. It's challenging, but satisfying when the end result works.

Does anyone have a particular preference between one coconut oil vs another? Pros and cons?

lovetoknit 07-09-2013 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grateful_Love (Post 16505881)
Thank you for the sweet treat ideas--TOM is here, so these little chocolate gems will be on my "to buy for" list. I think TOM might be why the scale wasn't moving.

The cream cheese/sourcream/sweetener cheesecake idea sounds perfect. I might sprinkle on some cocoa powder, too.

One thing I love about this whole low-carb lifestyle is finding ways to make "traditional" foods new ways. It's like a game of strategy. It's challenging, but satisfying when the end result works.

Does anyone have a particular preference between one coconut oil vs another? Pros and cons?

If you like the flavor of coconut, Nutiva is the best in my opinion.
Carolyn

Patience 07-09-2013 02:45 PM

I am currently on Nutiva, too, right now. But I typically buy what is organic and on sale.
I'd buy nonorganic, too, in some situations, but prefer to make organic purchases as much as possible. It all tastes pretty much the same to me, except refined which is flavor-free.

Ntombi 07-09-2013 02:48 PM

I too buy whatever organic extra virgin coconut oil is available (and not overpriced!) when I'm ready to buy it, which is just about everywhere. I have yet to buy one that I don't like.


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