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Old 07-18-2013, 05:16 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by emmapal View Post
Ive done 1200/day low fat low carb and lost weight. Was just hoping this could be an end to counting. It makes me cry �� Seriously, it stresses me out and takes more mental stamina than I have right now. Cant believe this *sob!*

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Old 07-18-2013, 06:46 PM   #62
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Ive done 1200/day low fat low carb and lost weight. Was just hoping this could be an end to counting. It makes me cry �� Seriously, it stresses me out and takes more mental stamina than I have right now. Cant believe this *sob!*
You were probably hungry because you did low fat. You have to eat the fat to be satisfied. If you eat 60 grams of protein and 20 grams of carbs, that is only about 320 calories. So you subtract 320 calories from 1200 calories. That leaves 880 calories in fat. Some of that will be naturally in your food, and the rest you add by adding it to your food. You should not be hungry, and you will be able to eat green vegetables also. That is what my daughter-in-law does now, and it seems to be working for her.
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Old 07-18-2013, 07:03 PM   #63
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Ive done 1200/day low fat low carb and lost weight. Was just hoping this could be an end to counting. It makes me cry �� Seriously, it stresses me out and takes more mental stamina than I have right now. Cant believe this *sob!*
Also I want to add that 60 grams of protein is about 7 to 8 oz of protein. That is more than enough for most. You will get most of your energy from fat. You will feel better eating this way. Having been a member of weight watchers, I know that counting can be a big pain. Chances are after you count for a week or two, you won't have to except for once in a while, because you will figure out how much you can eat to lose weight. You will just count once in a while after that to make sure your portions are not creeping up.
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Old 07-24-2013, 08:46 PM   #64
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If my fat percentage is high enough (80%+) I find my calories sort of take care of themselves as long as I'm mindful of portion control. It's not so bad that way and my calories end up right around 1200 and I lose weight (which any other way just didn't happen). I'm just not hungry enough to always finish what's on my plate! I'm still experimenting but so far this is working without much added stress. I'm pretty sure in maintenance I won't have to count much, just be mindful of my portions overall and when I'm not hungry anymore I stop eating...it's hopefully going to work much like now, just a little more to eat and I will have more carbs occasionally. If I can get to my goal this way I think maintenance will be fairly easy which says a lot since I had to fight to keep off every pound after dieting low fat/low cal. This way though I'm fairly certain it doesn't eat into your muscle mass and lower your metabolism which makes keeping it off much easier later. That's my goal - to keep my muscle mass as much as possible.
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Old 07-25-2013, 06:20 AM   #65
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If I am already strictly doing low carb, is reducing calories/portion size my only other option? I don't eat any grain, fruit, starchy veggies, no legumes at all, no processed food (not even low carb fake homemade baked goods), no lean meat, higher carb nuts like cashews, pean"nuts", not even almonds, nor drink anything other than water.
Emma,
I eat only protein and non-starchy vegies, keeping my carbs below 25. To maintain my current weight I can only eat 1500-1600 calories a day. When I was trying to lose my last 35 pounds last January, I stuck to about 1100 calories and lost it in 2 months. I've given up trying to figure out the whole calorie in/calorie out deficit equaling so many pounds per week cuz it just hasn't worked for me.

I can't eat nuts at all because (a) they're a trigger food for me but (b) even the lower carb nuts just aren't that low carb and I'm not willing to give up any of my vegies for so little exchange.
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Old 07-25-2013, 06:27 AM   #66
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Also I want to add that 60 grams of protein is about 7 to 8 oz of protein. That is more than enough for most.
Carolyn,
I used to eat 4 oz of protein at a meal until I realized that it was adding up to roughly 100gm of protein each day so I don't think 7-8 oz is going to be as low as 60gm. By my calculations, most protein (excluding seafood) is around 30+ grams for 4 oz.
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Old 07-25-2013, 06:29 AM   #67
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Emma,
I eat only protein and non-starchy vegies, keeping my carbs below 25. To maintain my current weight I can only eat 1500-1600 calories a day. When I was trying to lose my last 35 pounds last January, I stuck to about 1100 calories and lost it in 2 months. I've given up trying to figure out the whole calorie in/calorie out deficit equaling so many pounds per week cuz it just hasn't worked for me.

I can't eat nuts at all because (a) they're a trigger food for me but (b) even the lower carb nuts just aren't that low carb and I'm not willing to give up any of my vegies for so little exchange.
aomiel, aren't you eating fat beyond what come swith your protein? I thought that was pretty much a given on this thread. I've made the same decision about nuts and for the same reasons.

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Old 07-25-2013, 08:15 AM   #68
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Carolyn,
I used to eat 4 oz of protein at a meal until I realized that it was adding up to roughly 100gm of protein each day so I don't think 7-8 oz is going to be as low as 60gm. By my calculations, most protein (excluding seafood) is around 30+ grams for 4 oz.

An oz of a protein food has from 6 to 8 grams per oz. 7 oz of chicken is 56 grams of protein. Pork has about 6 grams of protein per oz. If I eat 8 oz of pork, I would eat about 48 grams of protein. So I eat roughly 60 grams of protein a day when I average all of my protein sources. I usually do not eat 4 oz every meal. I do not eat protein at night. Only fat and carbs in the form of chocolate whipped cream. I also should add that there are many people who eat more protein than that on this board and do just fine. If a person is having a hard time losing weight, they should consider their protein intake. First consider carbs. Then eat just the amount of protein that you need. Then consider reducing fat. Of course there are a few who will disagree. Everyone has to do what works for them.
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Old 07-25-2013, 10:04 AM   #69
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The only way to deal with this (I have found) is to count calories and keep experimenting with your diet until you can maintain and lose at will.
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Old 07-25-2013, 11:33 AM   #70
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The advice about counting calories can be a bit of a mine field as it will inevitably tempt you to start eating more of the less calorie dense foods and those are carbs and protein both of which are gluconegenic. That may confound the issue.
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Old 07-25-2013, 11:57 AM   #71
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The advice about counting calories can be a bit of a mine field as it will inevitably tempt you to start eating more of the less calorie dense foods and those are carbs and protein both of which are gluconegenic. That may confound the issue.
Very good point. Also I am reading a book just now called, "The Poor Misunderstood Calorie" by William Lagakos, Ph. D., and he said that the counting of calories is very inaccurate. For one thing, each person uses calories in a different way. And the method of deciding how many calories each food has, is not a good way to determine how that works in the body. That explains to me why some very low calorie foods and almost no calorie foods make me gain. Also, fat is a high calorie food, and I never gain when I eat more fat.
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Old 08-03-2013, 06:33 AM   #72
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Have started losing a bit again, after getting almost back up to where I started! Took the advice to put melted butter, grease, or oil on everything I eat, and cut down on the cream cheese (I think that it is not as filling as the liquid/melted oils, so I was probably overeating it). Cream, sour cream, and cheese are mostly out of my diet again. I would like to run an experiment to see if the dairy is the issue, or overeating due to not enough satiating fat, since I took out both and now don't know what may have been sabotaging my efforts. Maybe the dairy caused me to overeat?
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Old 08-03-2013, 09:29 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by emmapal View Post
Have started losing a bit again, after getting almost back up to where I started! Took the advice to put melted butter, grease, or oil on everything I eat, and cut down on the cream cheese (I think that it is not as filling as the liquid/melted oils, so I was probably overeating it). Cream, sour cream, and cheese are mostly out of my diet again. I would like to run an experiment to see if the dairy is the issue, or overeating due to not enough satiating fat, since I took out both and now don't know what may have been sabotaging my efforts. Maybe the dairy caused me to overeat?
You can still do your experiment. Do as you plan for now, and after you've lost a bit, either add the dairy in OR cut the fat in general for a couple days and see what it does to your appetite. But give it some time before you do that, so you get good losses and can run a good experiment.

If it helps, Phinney and Volek say that a lot of real-scientist studies are flawed because they only study one isolated detail. Phinney and Volek think that nutrition/weight loss/body health has more to do with a whole set of dietary variables, so studying just one variable is goofy. So maybe you're the better scientist by doing the two things together.
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Old 08-03-2013, 12:42 PM   #74
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Yes, good point! I know that when I eat a very fat-heavy meal (lots of melted butter, grease, etc), it fills me up to the point of aversion. I could eat more if it was sugary, but more of what is in front of me? No way. When I first started this, eggs and sausage with chopped green veggies was enough to send me over the edge of the boat, but as my body has acclimated, I seem to need a lot more fat to get the same loss of appetite. Which may be why I started gaining weight again, and why dairy has been suspect because it is not as filling for the same amount of calories enabling me to eat more. So dairy and overeating and not enough appetite-suppressing fat are probably all interplaying.
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Old 08-04-2013, 02:44 AM   #75
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May I suggest plain induction? Of course calories/amount/portions of foods are part of the equation. The key is a high fat percentage. May I suggest Atkins induction without adding additional fat just not avoiding fat. It will keep your caliries down but keep you in Ketosis.
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Old 08-04-2013, 05:09 AM   #76
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Have started losing a bit again, after getting almost back up to where I started! Took the advice to put melted butter, grease, or oil on everything I eat, and cut down on the cream cheese (I think that it is not as filling as the liquid/melted oils, so I was probably overeating it). Cream, sour cream, and cheese are mostly out of my diet again. I would like to run an experiment to see if the dairy is the issue, or overeating due to not enough satiating fat, since I took out both and now don't know what may have been sabotaging my efforts. Maybe the dairy caused me to overeat?
Hi Emmapal! Missed ya! Kathy
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Old 08-08-2013, 09:00 AM   #77
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I have been eating only Atkins induction foods for several months already, minus a few cheat days because all of our birthdays are in a row. I didn't even cheat for my own birthday, no cake, no ice cream, except for 1 flatbread at a greek restaurant! I gain weight if I cheat at all, like pasta salad leftovers I experimented with last week (had 1 bowl per day for 3 days, extra ham and bacon/butter mayo added), and put on 4 lbs. I went back to induction foods, even cutting out dairy, no cheese, no cream, and no more gaining, but no loss either. Ran out of butter, coconut oil is not tasty, so haven't been adding any extra fat for about a week.

Still pretty confused.
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Old 08-08-2013, 09:23 AM   #78
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Emma, did you ever use a food tracker.... sometimes it is so hard to suss out what may be the issue and keeping track of the what, how much and those fine details can reveal the issue if it truly is a food issue.

As I am sure you know, there are many other issues that can make weight loss very difficult and the most common one is thyroid problems. Not sure if this has been discussed.....
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Old 08-08-2013, 09:40 AM   #79
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I have been eating only Atkins induction foods for several months already, minus a few cheat days because all of our birthdays are in a row. I didn't even cheat for my own birthday, no cake, no ice cream, except for 1 flatbread at a greek restaurant! I gain weight if I cheat at all, like pasta salad leftovers I experimented with last week (had 1 bowl per day for 3 days, extra ham and bacon/butter mayo added), and put on 4 lbs. I went back to induction foods, even cutting out dairy, no cheese, no cream, and no more gaining, but no loss either. Ran out of butter, coconut oil is not tasty, so haven't been adding any extra fat for about a week.

Still pretty confused.
If I did carbs (pasta) plus high fat I would gain 2+ lbs a day. And if I had flatbread, or even a simple cheat I would have to start over getting into ketosis, which takes me over a week.

Maybe if you try three full weeks without a single cheat and carbs at induction level and still aren't losing you could examine what's the cause, dairy, etc. ? I agree on using a tracker, it's surprising to me when I examine my numbers, then I can tweak as needed.
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Old 08-08-2013, 11:04 AM   #80
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If I did carbs (pasta) plus high fat I would gain 2+ lbs a day. And if I had flatbread, or even a simple cheat I would have to start over getting into ketosis, which takes me over a week.

Maybe if you try three full weeks without a single cheat and carbs at induction level and still aren't losing you could examine what's the cause, dairy, etc. ? I agree on using a tracker, it's surprising to me when I examine my numbers, then I can tweak as needed.
Ditto April! Kathy
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Old 08-08-2013, 01:58 PM   #81
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it is hard because LC was represented as count-free method. I've made myself crazy over the years counting calories and macros. Loathe to go back to it, especially using a tracker that values the calorie as king
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Old 08-08-2013, 02:17 PM   #82
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Hey Emma,
You shouldn't have to track as long as you don't eat pasta/bread/sugar, etc you should be fine. But unlike a low calorie diet, where when you over do it on the calories you exercise more or make it up the next day, when your doing Nutritional Ketosis, once you're out it could take you two weeks or more to get back in. I only suggested track in case you were unaware of how many cabs are in pasta and thought you were staying on plan with the pasta.

Maybe you should think about whether you want to devote a few weeks to getting into NK to see if you like it, or maybe it's just not the plan for you. Sorry you're struggling with it. I'm sure you'll figure out if it, or something else is your best plan.
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Old 09-10-2013, 10:08 AM   #83
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Still really frustrated because of all I've been reading about the one-time deal of low carb diets, the "Atkins yoyo," etc. I found that when low calorie dieting I needed cheat days to rev things up again and avoid plateaus, but this diet seems to have made me extra sensitive to any carbs. I gain more weight more quickly on even a small cheat. I zigzagged all the way back up the 10 lbs I lost the first week, and am now fighting to stay even there.

I may have to find a low-carb plan that includes more Jaminet "safe starches" and watch my portions again. I have cut out almost all dairy again, cut back on protein, upped my veggie and pure fat intake (like buttered veggies for all my meals with a little meat and eggs once a day). Adopting a diet where I cannot absolutely ever cheat just isn't sustainable. Again, I am working on my last 10-15 lbs, which even the Atkins web site says I should introduce more whole-food unprocessed carbs at this point.

As usual, the answer just seems to be to eat less and deal with being hungry At least I am no longer afraid of fat, so that helps.
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Old 09-10-2013, 10:50 AM   #84
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Anyone have any suggestions of another forum/diet approach from the list on the main forum page that would better fit me? I have been low/moderate carb for nearly 10 years, but also low fat, so I am not ditching the diet. This NK was more of a ramp up experiment for me to try to avoid the depression and hunger of low-cal dieting, to see if very low carb would work. Although I have to add that I am pretty depressed about diet right now anyway, lol ;p
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Old 09-10-2013, 11:16 AM   #85
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Hey Emma,

Sorry you're having frustration, I can relate as I have had a lot of diet frustration in the past.

I'm not sure how long you tried NK, and if you were able to get your macros right, but I am most successful with NK when I have the following:

0-5 g total carbs

and
80% fat
20% protein

For me, that doesn't include veggies at this point. If I included the veggies that you eat, along with all of the fat of NK, I would gain, and gain, and gain.

When I'm struggling, I do a Fat Fast or Egg fast, or meat an Egg fast. Although, I have a ways to go until I meet my goal, so I'm not the best one to be giving advice.

I relate to you because I could never control my hunger well enough on a low fat diet, and now that I've found NK I can eat until full as long I's keeping my carbs between 0 and 5 grams and not eating too much protein.

Best of luck to you, and maybe check out one of the egg fast forums.

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Old 09-10-2013, 01:15 PM   #86
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.......

I am trying to keep my weight pretty low by American standards for health reasons, and keep my diet very clean in terms of nutrients and contaminants, because watching people die of a disease like cancer can ruin anyone's appetite.
I quickly read back through everything that was written. Perhaps you are already thin enough and that 10 lbs you keep talking about just isn't meant to be at this time.

What stands out to me is trying this, then trying that, cutting something or other out, then a cheat....but very little consistency.

Is it just time to eat good healthy foods and maintain and let your body heal from the dieting you've done. If you can tolerate carbs (they don't mess with your blood sugar) adding them to your diet would be good, especially the so-called "safe starches" you commented on, yams, etc.

Perhaps just don't be caught up in the diet mentality for awhile and just eat healthy food.

Well, that's what sticks out to me at least. Wishing you all the best.
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Old 09-13-2013, 09:28 PM   #87
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10lbs I dont much care about: it is my 31.5" waist that bugs me. Maintaining is fine too. Gaining is not! I have been trying to give changes several weeks to several months to settle in. Been doing lchf since April with net effect of zero change. Did IF alternate days from Oct-Feb last year with no change after the first 10 lbs in 10 days

One thing that seems consistent in all diets I have tried these past 15 years is just eating less lol! Sigh...
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Old 09-14-2013, 03:05 PM   #88
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Potatoes?

Emmapal, have you read about the potato diet? There's a long thread here Potato Hack

I've been cycling with potato and HFLC, also doing raw milk fasts on intervals. Getting results finally after being stuck and weight creeping up and up. It's a long thread but might be worth a peek. Wishing you success in whatever you decide.

Debbra in PA
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Old 09-14-2013, 07:20 PM   #89
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I totally hear you on the belly issue. Mine is much to big, and I lose more off my hips than my waist. I'm 50 so I guess it won't end up extremely tiny, darn.

I do hope to get under 30" though at some point. That's my goal at least.
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Old 09-14-2013, 08:08 PM   #90
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Yes girl

This diet doesn't really work well for me weight-loss wise. I want a 28 inch waist, I'm 29 inch, I haven't dropped one single size at all.

I lost 10 lbs in the beginning, then I slowly started to gain back the weight.
Then school came around and I didn't have the energy or time to count carbs, and I lost track of daily carb intake. And my weight loss stagnated.

It's upsetting because I like you want to fit into my old clothes, but can't. My weight is normal, is yours?

Maybe it's because this is your body's set weight, and it refuses to loose more. Or maybe some artificial sweetner you are consuming is stalling you.

Maybe you have to be more strict in your diet. No dairy, strictly green leafy veggies and meats.

But otherwise, the only real weight-loss method that works is old-school starvation.

I just pigged out on some ribs that I didn't know had bbq sauce on them, so I'm restarting tommorow. Right back to induction.

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