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Old 05-02-2013, 01:36 PM   #1
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High Fat NK 80/15/5 - June Version

Welcome to the June High Fat 80/15/5 NK thread!

Our goal is a healthy LC high fat macro and mandatory daily protein regimen resulting in a state of Nutritional Ketosis. Ideal ratios for fat range from about 65% to 85% of calories. Protein is kept moderate. Total carbs are 50g or less. The short version is: Eat your required protein grams, keep total carbs low and the rest of your calories are fat. This is not a very low calorie thread.

Protein
In his book, Dr. Phinney recommends 1.5-2.0g/kg reference weight for protein grams. Separately Dr. Phinney has said that he leans towards 1.0-1.5g/kg reference weight. Reference weight is the appropriate weight for your height. It is important to use the correct weight for the formula because overeating protein can interfere with weight loss. So use the right weight even if you have a higher intermediate goal weight.

The formula looks like this: (goal_weight/2.2)*1.5 = daily protein grams.

For example: Your goal weight is 150

(150/2.2)*1.5 = 102g protein a day.

Protein II
Use the 1.5g/kg from the published book as your start point. If you need to you can fall back to the 1.0-1.5g/kg range. See this post.
Fat
Most of your calories should come from fat.
Carbs
50g total carbs (not net) or less. Start low on carbs.
Calories
According to Dr. Phinney, an obese person burns about 30kCal per kg of weight and a moderately active adult close to their correct weight burns 35kCal per kg of weight. He attributes the difference, 30 to 35, to an obese person being more sedentary than a person at the right weight for their body.

From page 207 of The Art and Science of Low Carb Living:

"As an aside, the casual reader might protest that these energy expenditure numbers look pretty high. But for anyone that has worked with obese humans in a metabolic research ward, 30kcal per kg of actual body weight in the sedentary obese and 35 kcal/kg in the post-obese moderately active adult are actually quite conservative expenditure values."

For example: You are fat, your goal weight is 150 and right now you weigh 225.

225lb current calorie expenditure --> (225/2.2)*30 = 3068
150lb goal weight calorie expenditure --> (150/2.2)*35 = 2386
Calories II
How much should you eat? I don't know but it is probably not as little as you think. Use the formula to guestimate your current calorie expenditure and then start with 500 less calories. In the example above, that'd be a start point of about 2500 a day.

There are many health risks related to eating very low calories, like loss of lean body mass and metabolism down regulation, and it is hard to stick to a plan with very low calories. Very low calorie plans frequently result in binges which will wreck your efforts at NK. Start high and work down as needed but go down slowly. Panic is the enemy of success.
Macros
Macro ratios are a great tool to help you keep an eye on what you are doing but they can be very deceptive. 15% protein at 1500 calories is very different from 15% at 3000 calories. You can have great looking macros that are hiding terrible real numbers. Don't get stuck on macro percentages. Always check your protein grams to make sure you are eating to your goal.
Daily/Weekly Weigh-Ins
Do you weigh in daily or weekly? Totally up to you! I weigh in daily because I like the constant feedback. *BUT*, if you choose to do daily weigh-ins you have to accept that daily weights are a snapshot in time only. They are interesting data points but that is all and they are meaningless without the context of time. In other words, weigh-in daily if you want but pay attention to the trend not the individual snapshot of weight.
Tape Measure
You should measure yourself periodically. Knowing that you are losing inches can help keep you from wildly tweaking what you are doing when what you are doing is working even if the scale is saying otherwise. And it feels good to know you have lost inches.
Sodium
Consider your own health condition and any Rx meds but... low carb is not a low sodium way of eating or living. You *must* get your sodium in or your body will suffer. It might suffer silently for a long time before it finally breaks. Or it might express itself as agonizing leg cramps. Those cramps are caused by dehydration and/or a potassium deficiency but if you are a low sodium consumer then your sodium deficiency is contributing to your potassium loss and dehydration. The body excretes potassium if it is forced to conserve sodium because you are not getting enough. That is how important sodium is to your body. Phinney advises 5 Grams of sodium daily. That is a lot of sodium. Fear not! Unless you are going out of your way to eat low sodium you are probably getting 2 to 4 grams in your food every day. A little extra use of the salt shaker will fix up most people just fine. It is worth taking a look at how much sodium you are getting if you use a food logger. Table salt is not one for one on sodium grams. Google for the conversion 'how much sodium in table salt'. If you've been a casual low sodium person then you should pay careful attention to what you are eating and dun your former salt eschewing ways.

The body will cannabalize LBM for potassium if it has to. So, low sodium -> sacrifice potassium -> rob lean tissue for potassium -> poor LC results.
Links of Interest

April's NK thread

A sodium thread I created.

Long Term Stalls podcast with Jimmy Moore and Dr. Phinney. I made a list of the things covered in the podcast with the time it is located at within the recording. It isn't all inclusive but it is thorough.

Notes

Join in the conversation any time. Feel free to ask any questions you have. We are all happy to help you. Lurkers are welcome too.
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Old 06-01-2013, 12:00 PM   #2
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Down a little more today. It's coming but it's erratic and slow. Not sure what to do about the new thread. (June). I'm not savvy enough computer wise to do another. Maybe someone out there will help us out. Thanks.
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Old 06-01-2013, 02:44 PM   #3
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Hi guys another newbie . doing H-F, L-C loving it Muzz from New Zealand
Welcome fellow kiwi!!!!!
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Old 06-01-2013, 03:11 PM   #4
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Hello fellow Kiwi where in nz are u
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Old 06-01-2013, 03:13 PM   #5
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Central otago, where its blowing a gale this morning.
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Old 06-01-2013, 03:25 PM   #6
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Hi fellow Kiwi been doing this program for three months have basically a very simple approach effectively program was based around two meals breakfasts of three egg omelette afternoon meal is predictably a salad, both-have-practically-no-sugar and high in fat. muzz_6009 is my skype Id if u part of that world .. Sort of looking around the web for people who are doing the programme with different ideas on how to make it better. I found a zero carbohydrate bread that I like.
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Old 06-01-2013, 03:28 PM   #7
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Since Im here, I'd better post my stats:

calories 1,215 carbs 20 fat 97 protein 38
Macros: 13:63:25

Havent lost any in 4 days, in fact I've gone up a few pounds. Currently living in faith thats my body is just in processing mode and theres a woosh in my future.

Muzz, where on earth did you find a zero carb bread? I live rural, but the small town i shop at has almost nothing low carb. i do buy a bit on line, but essentially make almost everything myself.
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Old 06-01-2013, 03:43 PM   #8
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Google: Carb Free Cloud Bread Recipe ... Here you go I add cinnamon and a zero carbohydrates thickener gu gum from commonsense organics. It feels and tastes like bread.
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Old 06-01-2013, 03:47 PM   #9
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Ok. They seem like a tweak on the Oopsie rolls.
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Old 06-01-2013, 03:47 PM   #10
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Are you using coconut oil, I normally have about a teaspoon a day. Looking for more snacks is my quest at the moment. Try to find a really nice way of making zero carb Ice cream. I was an ice cream addict. If I could find zero alternative I would add it into my repertoire.
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Old 06-01-2013, 03:52 PM   #11
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I oil pull with CO most mornings, and I have fat bombs a few times a week. I occasionally use it for cooking oil, and I have it in my morning pancakes. I dont eat much ice cream, but if I do, I just buy Ziltch from the supermarket. its pretty low, especially if you get the sorbet one.

Theres a reciepe board with loads of snack ideas on it here.
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Old 06-01-2013, 05:36 PM   #12
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Welcome, Muzz! Way to go on your loss, that's fantastic! If you find a ZC ice cream, please post! I would be so happy to have some sort of safe ice cream, even if I'm making it myself.

I awoke today, day 59 of this new WOE, down 20 pounds. I was so ectatic, I treated my self to a spa pedi The best part is, I feel great, high energy, not usually hungry, and lugging 20 less pounds around.

Looking forward to seeing all of the progress us NKers will make in June!
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Old 06-01-2013, 07:34 PM   #13
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I buy the So Delicious coconut ice cream. It has 4 NC per 1/2cup. Mint chocolate is my favorite.
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Old 06-01-2013, 09:09 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilbeetle View Post
I oil pull with CO most mornings, and I have fat bombs a few times a week.
How long have you been oil pulling? And have you had any good results? I tried it a couple of times a while back and I hated it. I just could not stand the way the oil felt/tasted in my mouth. Was I just being a big baby about it? Is there a trick I didn't know, maybe?

Quote:
Originally Posted by April04 View Post
I awoke today, day 59 of this new WOE, down 20 pounds. I was so ectatic, I treated my self to a spa pedi The best part is, I feel great, high energy, not usually hungry, and lugging 20 less pounds around.
That looks like a great couple of months! I feel the same way about NK. I started this for weight and health reasons, but I feel so great doing it that I really can imagine it is a full on way of life long past goal weight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cfine View Post
I buy the So Delicious coconut ice cream. It has 4 NC per 1/2cup. Mint chocolate is my favorite.
I have been thinking of trying to find some of this but I'm scared. Do you not have any trouble stopping after however much you've decided is going to be your portion? I may wait for a special occasion when I'll feel alright a out finishing the whole pint.
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Old 06-01-2013, 09:25 PM   #15
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Down a little more today. It's coming but it's erratic and slow. Not sure what to do about the new thread. (June). I'm not savvy enough computer wise to do another. Maybe someone out there will help us out. Thanks.
Thank you whoever for posting the June NK 80/15/5. Ask and ye shall receive?
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Old 06-01-2013, 09:35 PM   #16
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Rubidoux, I don't have trouble eating one serving. If I ate the whole pint my stomach would be in torment because it is sweetened with mallitol. I have started measuring most things in grams instead of cups. You get more in a serving
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Old 06-02-2013, 12:03 AM   #17
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Oh cfine, I was ready to go out and buy some SoDelicious, but you lost me at the maltitol. :/ That stuff does a number on me. I've tried the Breyers CarbSmart ice creams as well (which are 5 net carbs per 1/2 cup), and just didn't enjoy them. I don't know if it's something about the flavor or if sugar was an essential part of my enjoyment of ice cream, but I've had most of a 1/2 gal. of CarbSmart in my freezer for nearly a year now - it doesn't tempt me in the least.

I've got happy news to report. After a few months of bouncing up and down the same 4 lbs., I "started over" last week. I'm keeping my total carbs as low as possible, avoiding the cheat foods I've been eating - basically, all wheat products - and gave up peanuts for a while to see if they're a problem for me. As of this morning, I'm down a pound. So I'm definitely sticking to this plan for the next month and see how much I can lose. It's a good start to the summer!

Last edited by MerryKate; 06-02-2013 at 12:05 AM..
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Old 06-02-2013, 02:36 AM   #18
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I oil pulled a couple of times when I first started low carbing. I liked the whitening, but sort of gave up on it. About two weeks ago I started it up again, but it was more for the effect some people get of lowered appetite, and less dry skin. I am extremely dubious about the detox effect some talk about, its the nurse in me


I like coconut oil more than sunflower oil, and I suppose Im just used to the taste and texture since I often eat a teaspoon of coconut oil as an appetite suppresent when I do a long shift...seven hours no break.
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Old 06-02-2013, 05:26 AM   #19
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Welcome, Muzz! Way to go on your loss, that's fantastic! If you find a ZC ice cream, please post! I would be so happy to have some sort of safe ice cream, even if I'm making it myself.

I awoke today, day 59 of this new WOE, down 20 pounds. I was so ectatic, I treated my self to a spa pedi The best part is, I feel great, high energy, not usually hungry, and lugging 20 less pounds around.

Looking forward to seeing all of the progress us NKers will make in June!
WOW!!!! 20 lbs. Way to go, April....
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Old 06-02-2013, 05:27 AM   #20
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Low Carb Ice cream

April- The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate living has an AWESOME
homemade ice cream that I made for company this week. It is Maple Walnut and likely without the Maple syrup and nuts there would be no carbs in it.
Our company LOVED it and so does my DH, BUT it has over 400 calories per 1/2 cup- far too many for me. Also has 40 Grams of fat and 4 carbs as the recipe is written and they use Zylitol in it which I tried for the first time and LOVED it! The ice cream did not turn into a rock like past low carb ice cream with splenda did.
Am ordering more Zylitol and the next time will use half and half for calorie reduction, but still high fat. I will post the recipe here if anyone wants it and if I am allowed?


QUOTE=April04;16450661]Welcome, Muzz! Way to go on your loss, that's fantastic! If you find a ZC ice cream, please post! I would be so happy to have some sort of safe ice cream, even if I'm making it myself.
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Old 06-02-2013, 05:33 AM   #21
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Oh cfine, I was ready to go out and buy some SoDelicious, but you lost me at the maltitol. :/ That stuff does a number on me. I've tried the Breyers CarbSmart ice creams as well (which are 5 net carbs per 1/2 cup), and just didn't enjoy them. I don't know if it's something about the flavor or if sugar was an essential part of my enjoyment of ice cream, but I've had most of a 1/2 gal. of CarbSmart in my freezer for nearly a year now - it doesn't tempt me in the least.

I've got happy news to report. After a few months of bouncing up and down the same 4 lbs., I "started over" last week. I'm keeping my total carbs as low as possible, avoiding the cheat foods I've been eating - basically, all wheat products - and gave up peanuts for a while to see if they're a problem for me. As of this morning, I'm down a pound. So I'm definitely sticking to this plan for the next month and see how much I can lose. It's a good start to the summer!
MerryKate, good going. I've done the same thing. After gaining and losing the same 2-3 lbs for several months, I finally started to lose. Almost 5 lbs the last week. Time to get going. Let's see what we can do this month. Ready, everyone, let's lose.
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Old 06-02-2013, 08:43 AM   #22
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Hi everyone, I posted on the May 31st page. I'm new and seeking guidance. I'm holding my carbs at (net) at 20 and feel fantastic. I've been a low carber in the past and know this is the only way to go. I use an onlie tracker. Today is day 7 for me and I'm down 9 lbs which I know is mostly water but I know I'm doing the right thing. I have a lot of health issues including COPD, borderline diabetic, IBS and gluten intollerant to name a few. I'm a 51 year old 5.2 foot woman and I need help with my numbers. I currently have them set at:

65% FAT
30% PROTEIN
05% CARBS
1550 Calories

It's the calories Im worried about. They seem really high for me. I have been a drinker all my life but given that up too. I will have to learn all the termonology! I would love to join your board.
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Old 06-02-2013, 08:56 AM   #23
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Just marking my spot. I lurk here often for the great info and inspiration!
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Old 06-02-2013, 01:20 PM   #24
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Trying this out today!! I find it very hard to eat to 80/15/5. I get it closer to 70/25/5.

I have exactly 100 lbs. to go as of this morning.

Menu and stats:
Breakfast
1 T. Bacon Grease
2 large Egg
3 slices Premium Bacon

Lunch
2 T. Blue Plate Real Mayonnaise
2 large Boiled Egg

Dinner
3 oz Beef Chuck Roast
1 cup Cauliflower
1 T. Parmesan Cheese
1 tablespoon Olive Oil

Calories: 1114
Fat: 96.54 g (78%)
Carbs: 6.55 total g (2%)
Protein: 52.34 g (20%)

Last edited by mcchimento; 06-02-2013 at 01:22 PM..
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Old 06-02-2013, 01:47 PM   #25
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CherylMac, you are at the right place. I lost my first 25 lbs last year when I gave up sodas (reg coke) and all mixers. Took a while to get used to being liquor free but now I don't miss it.

Your calories look about right. I wouldn't change anything. Just keep going and coming back here to have accountability. Why don't you post your menu breakfast, lunch, and dinner. We can help you tweek it as we go along.
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Old 06-02-2013, 01:58 PM   #26
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Trying this out today!! I find it very hard to eat to 80/15/5. I get it closer to 70/25/5.

I have exactly 100 lbs. to go as of this morning.

Menu and stats:
Breakfast
1 T. Bacon Grease
2 large Egg
3 slices Premium Bacon

Lunch
2 T. Blue Plate Real Mayonnaise
2 large Boiled Egg

Dinner
3 oz Beef Chuck Roast
1 cup Cauliflower
1 T. Parmesan Cheese
1 tablespoon Olive Oil

Calories: 1114
Fat: 96.54 g (78%)
Carbs: 6.55 total g (2%)
Protein: 52.34 g (20%)
Hey Cathy, looking good. I'd raise the calories up a couple of hundred or so. Any less and you'll be losing lean body mass instead of fat. Maybe also add extra veggies. Your body works so hard to digest the non-starch carbs that they hardly count.

Everything else looks good. I found that I stalled when I ate a lot of processed foods. (sausage, lunch meats, etc) Also, I just couldn't lose at all when I tried the frankenfoods.

You are definitely off to a good start. Keep it up.
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Old 06-02-2013, 04:27 PM   #27
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Thank you Lindy for your response. I forgot to mention my starting weight was 178, and my current weight is 169. I'm hoping to be at my goal weight by Thanksgiving as my husband and I are going to the Bahamas for 2 1/2 weeks
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Old 06-02-2013, 05:47 PM   #28
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I usually eat closer to 1300 calories and have a salad at lunch as well. Today just seemed to be a low day, food-wise. I don't eat too many processed meats because of the sodium. I get low sodium bacon., the only processed meat I eat. I seem to handle it okay.
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Old 06-02-2013, 07:32 PM   #29
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Thank you Lindy for your response. I forgot to mention my starting weight was 178, and my current weight is 169. I'm hoping to be at my goal weight by Thanksgiving as my husband and I are going to the Bahamas for 2 1/2 weeks
Woohoo, Bahamas!!!
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Old 06-02-2013, 07:43 PM   #30
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I usually eat closer to 1300 calories and have a salad at lunch as well. Today just seemed to be a low day, food-wise. I don't eat too many processed meats because of the sodium. I get low sodium bacon., the only processed meat I eat. I seem to handle it okay.
Sounds good. I wouldn't even worry about the low sodium in the bacon. On the LC lifestyle our body's need extra salt. Anywhere from 2-4 gr a day. Be sure you take a potassium tablet daily. I didn't and had awful leg cramps. My first 3 mo on LC was a "sitting still" time for me. Lose a lb and gain a lb. It took me 2 mo to lose 2 lbs. Then I went on NK and promptly lost 6 more in a week. I'm definitely not a quick loser. (Dead metabolism). Also didn't lose on very LC and low calories. Under 1400 and I stalled. Try to keep at least 1400 for a while. And don't give it 3 days and say it's not working. That's what I did and kept on stalling.

I'm not perfect and don't have all the answers but I can tell you what worked for me. And more importantly, what didn't work for me. Everybody stay safe.
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