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Old 06-21-2013, 10:20 AM   #241
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Originally Posted by catjrow3 View Post
My end is still a ways off though... (sigh).... 29 lbs minimum...
No I meant I can suffer thru a fat fast to drop pounds as long as it is only a short period of time.
NO WAY could I continue that sort of thing for more than 5 days at a time.
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Old 06-21-2013, 11:19 AM   #242
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Kathy01, just curious, what are your calories now, off the fat fast, that give you numbers like that?
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Old 06-21-2013, 11:26 AM   #243
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Kathy01, just curious, what are your calories now, off the fat fast, that give you numbers like that?
Just as I've been tracking my blood glucose and blood ketones, I've tracked

Protein,fat%,carbs and calories and her they are: Any days in the 90's for Fat I am fat fasting. Unfortunately I wasn't tracking for the first fast.

56/79%/17 1432
30/82%/30 1292
26/85/19.9 1197
36/80%/25 1182
41/79%/29 1279
48/75%/22 1365
31/81%/28 1236
20/84%/24 1084
17/87%/18 1145
27/82%/27 1206
41/81%/21 1305
35/81%/23 1247
37/80%/25 1317
9/88%/19 1018
25/84/23 1164
45/79%/15 1248
34/80%/30 1256
43/80%/25 1439
36/80%/28 1328
67/75%/22 1480
68/75%/21 1462
14/91%/11 1109
14/91/12 1167
14/91/12 1217
16/90%/13 1177
30/84%/23 1333
59/80%/15 1470
47/78%/18 1177
45/80%/22 1337
33/82/16 1191
31/84%/12 1184
54/76%/3.9 1061
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Old 06-21-2013, 12:31 PM   #244
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Interesting, thanks.

It seems some people are eating about 10X target weight in calorie to lose. You have only a few pounds to lose, so I wouldn't think you would lose very fast or everyday. I am happy with 1-2 lbs a month and I have LOTS to lose.

I am also dropping fat calories and checking ketones on the way down. If you are keto-adapted, you should be able to use some of your own fat calories to get to the ratios. That would make the consumed fat %/calories lower (on paper) than you are actually using each day.
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Old 06-21-2013, 12:37 PM   #245
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Interesting, thanks.

It seems some people are eating about 10X target weight in calorie to lose. You have only a few pounds to lose, so I wouldn't think you would lose very fast or everyday. I am happy with 1-2 lbs a month and I have LOTS to lose.

I am also dropping fat calories and checking ketones on the way down. If you are keto-adapted, you should be able to use some of your own fat calories to get to the ratios. That would make the consumed fat %/calories lower (on paper) than you are actually using each day.
Huh ?
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Old 06-21-2013, 12:52 PM   #246
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My target weight is 180, so I try to stay under 1800 calories (usually under 1600). The 190 in my siggy is a short term goal.

I may eat 1600 calories, but I am hoping my body is donating several hundred fat calories from my thighs to make my calories consumed closer to the 1800-1900 calories the charts say I use each day.

On paper, the percentages look lower in fat, but my thighs are contributing some calories each day. I am keeping the carb and protein grams constant, so at first ,the fat percentages were higher and now calories and fat% are lower.
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Old 06-21-2013, 12:59 PM   #247
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My target weight is 180, so I try to stay under 1800 calories (usually under 1600). The 190 in my siggy is a short term goal.

I may eat 1600 calories, but I am hoping my body is donating several hundred fat calories from my thighs to make my calories consumed closer to the 1800-1900 calories the charts say I use each day.

On paper, the percentages look lower in fat, but my thighs are contributing some calories each day. I am keeping the carb and protein grams constant, so at first ,the fat percentages were higher and now calories and fat% are lower.
Okay got it!!! So I should be 1100 ish to lose. This is all hard to wrap your brain around!!! Doesn't take a lot of fat to add up to 1100 calories!
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Old 06-21-2013, 01:40 PM   #248
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You could try 1100, but maybe staying at 1200 daily might get you a 2 lb/month loss. I know 2/month is slow, but you are so close to goal that you don't want to get too low.

Some of those 1100/1200 calories are from carbs and protein too.
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Old 06-21-2013, 04:29 PM   #249
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You could try 1100, but maybe staying at 1200 daily might get you a 2 lb/month loss. I know 2/month is slow, but you are so close to goal that you don't want to get too low.

Some of those 1100/1200 calories are from carbs and protein too.
So if I Went on the 1200 Calorie Assumption, what would you think I should be looking towards in fat grams/%. Today ended up at 76% fat, which I think is too low. Thanks for your help!
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Old 06-21-2013, 05:51 PM   #250
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My fat eaten is 74%. That is the average over a month.

ptn 21%
carbs 7%

More importantly, 1576 cal, GRAMS of fat-128g, ptn-81g, carbs-27g, (16g net carbs)

I look at the total grams of f/c/p now that the blood ketones are in range. I don't worry about % as long as blood ketones are good. I did track % for the first 2 months to get the blood ketones where I wanted. Then I dropped fat grams so my body could use my fat instead. I still track blood ketones, but don't worry about % because that will change because I cant track grams of fat I use from my own fat. I assume the % would be 80% or higher if I knew how many grams of fat my body provides each day.

I cant lose fat if my body isn't providing some of the fat for daily calorie expenditure.
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Old 06-21-2013, 06:08 PM   #251
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My fat eaten is 74%. That is the average over a month.

ptn 21%
carbs 7%

More importantly, 1576 cal, GRAMS of fat-128g, ptn-81g, carbs-27g, (16g net carbs)

I look at the total grams of f/c/p now that the blood ketones are in range. I don't worry about % as long as blood ketones are good. I did track % for the first 2 months to get the blood ketones where I wanted. Then I dropped fat grams so my body could use my fat instead. I still track blood ketones, but don't worry about % because that will change because I cant track grams of fat I use from my own fat. I assume the % would be 80% or higher if I knew how many grams of fat my body provides each day.

I cant lose fat if my body isn't providing some of the fat for daily calorie expenditure.
So what range are your blood ketones?
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Old 06-21-2013, 06:29 PM   #252
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Morning readings since March1, between 0.6 and 2.0.

They seem to be lower the mornings after high fiber days... the dang veggies and salads do it.
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Old 06-21-2013, 09:28 PM   #253
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Okay got it!!! So I should be 1100 ish to lose. This is all hard to wrap your brain around!!! Doesn't take a lot of fat to add up to 1100 calories!

I really think you should eat at least 1200 calories a day. You don't want to lose muscle in your body. If you lose slowly, you will be fine. If you feel like you are not enjoying what you eat, try maintaining for a while and add in a few berries and some green vegetables. Do this for a week or two, and then try losing again after that.
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Old 06-21-2013, 09:36 PM   #254
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So if I Went on the 1200 Calorie Assumption, what would you think I should be looking towards in fat grams/%. Today ended up at 76% fat, which I think is too low. Thanks for your help!
If you are eating 10 grams of carbs a day. That would be 40 calories. If you are eating 65 grams of protein, that would be 260 calories. Now your fat would be added so you are eating 1200 calories a day. So you add your carbs to your protein, and multiply that number by 4, because there is 4 calories per gram of carbs or protein. Then subtract that from the amount of calories you will eat to lose. Let's say 1200 calories. That would be the amount of calories in fat you need to eat. Much of that will come from foods such as fatty meats, cheese, cream, butter, and cream cheese. Also Coconut oil, and olive oil. It does not take long to add up to 1200 calories.
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Old 06-22-2013, 03:47 AM   #255
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Morning readings since March1, between 0.6 and 2.0.

They seem to be lower the mornings after high fiber days... the dang veggies and salads do it.
Mine was .8 this AM pretty much the lowest since NK, and I think it was the veggies and not enough fat yesterday.
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Old 06-22-2013, 05:18 AM   #256
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So do you want the ketone readings higher because you eat the fat or because your body is making ketones from metabolising your fat?

If you had higher ketones and were not losing weight, I would think the dietary fat was causing the higher readings.

Last edited by drjlocarb; 06-22-2013 at 05:20 AM..
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Old 06-22-2013, 05:20 AM   #257
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So do you want the ketone readings higher because you eat the fat or because your body is making ketones from metabolising your fat?
How do you tell the difference? I was DOWN 1/2 pound today, so that would say I am metabolizing my fat?
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Old 06-22-2013, 05:35 AM   #258
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Sounds like you are metabolising fat!

I don't worry about the readings as long as they are above 0.5 AND I am losing.

You want to be using the ketones for fuel not just converting dietary fat to ketones. They may be lower this AM because your body was using them instead. Remember you have not eaten for many hours and hopefully that means you were making and using ketones all night. For fun, you might check this afternoon or before bed, 4 hours after a meal, and see how high the reading are during the day.
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Old 06-22-2013, 07:45 AM   #259
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So I had posted I was not even in urine ketosis right... last night was reading the new bottle of stix i just got.. and they are albustix... to test protein in the urine... grrr!! i knew the color on the outside of the bottle was different, but I thought it was just a different brand as the bottles were not the same... but nope, I think they are totally different. So maybe I am in urine ketosis... not sure ... but definitely still not in blood ketosis! boo!! I did have a drop on the scale again this morning of 0.6 though... I will take that anyday. I think I am recovered from my awful weekend. I am going to England/Italy in August, so I have about 6 weeks to do as much as I can do in weight loss before the trip. Mind, I am the slowest loser, so it wont be much, but I will take what I can get!!
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Old 06-22-2013, 11:07 AM   #260
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Hey, I'd like to join y'all. I've been around before, before there was a dedicated forum spot! Last year in late summer/early fall I found NK after trying Induction and even JUDDD and wound up losing almost 40 lbs. then lots of difficult life stuff happened in fall and winter (blah blah blah excuses and more excuses) and here I am. I've gained back 30.

Today began a fat fast that I hope to do for 3 or 4 days to kick start. Today my numbers will be 1200 cals, 86% fat, 2% carb and 12% protein. Can't seem to get the fat % up without adding more cals so I will go with it.

I believe I am very metabolic resistant. I am also hypothyroid and on Nature Throid. And maybe even perimenopause. When it rains it pours!

Off to read this whole thread now and learn learn learn!
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Old 06-22-2013, 11:09 AM   #261
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Hey, I'd like to join y'all. I've been around before, before there was a dedicated forum spot! Last year in late summer/early fall I found NK after trying Induction and even JUDDD and wound up losing almost 40 lbs. then lots of difficult life stuff happened in fall and winter (blah blah blah excuses and more excuses) and here I am. I've gained back 30.

Today began a fat fast that I hope to do for 3 or 4 days to kick start. Today my numbers will be 1200 cals, 86% fat, 2% carb and 12% protein. Can't seem to get the fat % up without adding more cals so I will go with it.

I believe I am very metabolic resistant. I am also hypothyroid and on Nature Throid. And maybe even perimenopause. When it rains it pours!

Off to read this whole thread now and learn learn learn!
Amy! I think you'll learn a lot from these gals, I sure am!
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Old 06-22-2013, 11:51 AM   #262
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So I had posted I was not even in urine ketosis right... last night was reading the new bottle of stix i just got.. and they are albustix... to test protein in the urine... grrr!! i knew the color on the outside of the bottle was different, but I thought it was just a different brand as the bottles were not the same... but nope, I think they are totally different. So maybe I am in urine ketosis... not sure ... but definitely still not in blood ketosis! boo!! I did have a drop on the scale again this morning of 0.6 though... I will take that anyday. I think I am recovered from my awful weekend. I am going to England/Italy in August, so I have about 6 weeks to do as much as I can do in weight loss before the trip. Mind, I am the slowest loser, so it wont be much, but I will take what I can get!!
Oh Cathy- BUMMER! Now that is an AWESOME trip to look forward to!
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Old 06-22-2013, 11:53 AM   #263
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Sounds like you are metabolising fat!

I don't worry about the readings as long as they are above 0.5 AND I am losing.

You want to be using the ketones for fuel not just converting dietary fat to ketones. They may be lower this AM because your body was using them instead. Remember you have not eaten for many hours and hopefully that means you were making and using ketones all night. For fun, you might check this afternoon or before bed, 4 hours after a meal, and see how high the reading are during the day.
Breakfast was at 8:30 and I measured at 1:30 and blood ketone level was 2.1 Will try to do prior to dinner also!
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Old 06-22-2013, 12:25 PM   #264
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Coconut Cream Concentrate- and fresh coconut- does anyone include either of these in the daily meals and how do you use the coconut cream concentrate?
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Old 06-22-2013, 01:41 PM   #265
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Oh Cathy- BUMMER! Now that is an AWESOME trip to look forward to!
Yes awesome trip! I took the other sticks back and they replaced them with ketostix...

Quote:
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Breakfast was at 8:30 and I measured at 1:30 and blood ketone level was 2.1 Will try to do prior to dinner also!
Do you usually measure at lunch for ketones? I only do it fasting first thing in the morning... and today, was LO on the meter.. boo! With the ketostix though I am at least back in ketosis... thats good! (now that I am using the right ones)

Quote:
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Hey, I'd like to join y'all. I've been around before, before there was a dedicated forum spot! Last year in late summer/early fall I found NK after trying Induction and even JUDDD and wound up losing almost 40 lbs. then lots of difficult life stuff happened in fall and winter (blah blah blah excuses and more excuses) and here I am. I've gained back 30.

Today began a fat fast that I hope to do for 3 or 4 days to kick start. Today my numbers will be 1200 cals, 86% fat, 2% carb and 12% protein. Can't seem to get the fat % up without adding more cals so I will go with it.

I believe I am very metabolic resistant. I am also hypothyroid and on Nature Throid. And maybe even perimenopause. When it rains it pours!

Off to read this whole thread now and learn learn learn!
Welcome!!
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Old 06-22-2013, 02:00 PM   #266
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Cathy, that is EXCELLENT that they took the strips back!

And no I NEVER do the blood glucose any other time except fasting am. However,
drjlocarb suggested it so I did! Waiting for her to return to tell me what it means- I guess I am burning fat during the day, or that even 5 hours later I was working on breakfast fat!
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Old 06-22-2013, 03:15 PM   #267
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Cathy, that is EXCELLENT that they took the strips back!

And no I NEVER do the blood glucose any other time except fasting am. However,
drjlocarb suggested it so I did! Waiting for her to return to tell me what it means- I guess I am burning fat during the day, or that even 5 hours later I was working on breakfast fat!
Gotcha, well I will check back to see what that means. They are too expensive for me to test that often! LOL
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Old 06-22-2013, 05:25 PM   #268
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Kathy, I'm back.

You were worried about your AM ketones, so I thought if you saw the higher reading in the middle of the day you wouldn't freak out about lowering the % of fat ingested. You should have the lowest reading of the day in the AM. Four hours after eating, hopefully most of the fat is digested and you should be using some of your own fat to carry you til yournext meal.

What did you eat for breakfast?

You should be able to drop the grams of fat in order to lose weight as long as your blood ketones stay above 0.5 in the AM. Now you can see they are higher during the day.

Last edited by drjlocarb; 06-22-2013 at 05:28 PM..
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Old 06-22-2013, 06:03 PM   #269
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Gotcha, well I will check back to see what that means. They are too expensive for me to test that often! LOL
I hear ya!!!
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Old 06-22-2013, 06:12 PM   #270
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Kathy, I'm back.

You were worried about your AM ketones, so I thought if you saw the higher reading in the middle of the day you wouldn't freak out about lowering the % of fat ingested. You should have the lowest reading of the day in the AM. Four hours after eating, hopefully most of the fat is digested and you should be using some of your own fat to carry you til yournext meal.

What did you eat for breakfast?

You should be able to drop the grams of fat in order to lose weight as long as your blood ketones stay above 0.5 in the AM. Now you can see they are higher during the day.
I think what I am learning here is that likely when I am not really watching/weighing what I eat, I just eat far too much and far too many calories. I am shocked at a 4 ounce Rib Eye (not that big) and a SMALL
salad being dinner, but it is fine.

Breakfast today was what someone posted as a shake, that I modified. I like it, and it is a high fat start to the day.
1 cup almond milk
1 oz cream cheese
1 oz HWC
1 T cocoa
Chocolate Extract
bit of vanilla
1 T protein powder
zylitol sweetener to taste.

270 Calories
24.0 Grams of Fat
1.9 Carbs
10.8 Protein

So today I ended up with
1,119 Calories
86.1 Grams of fat
11.8 Carbs (NICE!)
68.1 Protein, likely NOT good

I had two ounces of chicken for lunch, 2 T of sour cream and 1 ounce of cheddar. Hard to believe that two ounces of chicken and 4 ounces of beef
come to 68 grams of protein.

Whatdoya'll eat for lunch? My standard for YEARS was 1/2 Cup cottage cheese, 1/4 cup frozen blueberries and some nuts....
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