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Old 06-22-2013, 06:45 PM   #271
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You didn't eat that much for breakfast so I would think it should have been digested by your 4 hour test. I don't think we know how long it takes to digest fat, but bld/gluc is highest at 2 hours. That makes me think 4 hours should be safe for fat.

I only eat 2 meals a day. I eat a meal, breakfast or lunch, somewhere around 10 AM. Dinner is whenever I feel hungry, 6-9PM. I am just not hungry first thing in the morning and I would rather eat 2 larger meals instead of 3 little meals.
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Old 06-22-2013, 09:18 PM   #272
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Kathy, I like the high fat shake, glad you got it modified to your liking. I dont put in the protein powder...

As for lunch, lately I have been having hard salami rolled up with cream cheese, or ... i made a bunch of oopsie rolls, and sometimes have about 1 oz of turkey from the deli with lots of mayo, swiss cheese and avocado, so its like a sandwich, or tuna with lots of mayo on an oopsie... or my favorite of hwc/pb, and cc mixed together... always works too. Or pizza on an oopsie!! I made pizza the other night for dinner with a full size oopsie pizza crust and then put on the toppings, pepperoni, mushrooms, lots of cheese! LOL
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Old 06-23-2013, 04:41 AM   #273
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Originally Posted by drjlocarb View Post
You didn't eat that much for breakfast so I would think it should have been digested by your 4 hour test. I don't think we know how long it takes to digest fat, but bld/gluc is highest at 2 hours. That makes me think 4 hours should be safe for fat.

I only eat 2 meals a day. I eat a meal, breakfast or lunch, somewhere around 10 AM. Dinner is whenever I feel hungry, 6-9PM. I am just not hungry first thing in the morning and I would rather eat 2 larger meals instead of 3 little meals.
Does seem like much, but calorie wise and fat wise it is a big breakfast, but I agree, it had been 5 hours when I tested and I'd think by then it would have been digested. I can't do two meals- I just have to have 3
Thanks for your help in this- my fasting this am is .9
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Old 06-23-2013, 04:43 AM   #274
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Kathy, I like the high fat shake, glad you got it modified to your liking. I dont put in the protein powder...

As for lunch, lately I have been having hard salami rolled up with cream cheese, or ... i made a bunch of oopsie rolls, and sometimes have about 1 oz of turkey from the deli with lots of mayo, swiss cheese and avocado, so its like a sandwich, or tuna with lots of mayo on an oopsie... or my favorite of hwc/pb, and cc mixed together... always works too. Or pizza on an oopsie!! I made pizza the other night for dinner with a full size oopsie pizza crust and then put on the toppings, pepperoni, mushrooms, lots of cheese! LOL
Cathy I THOUGHT that was your shake, but was too lazy to go back and look. I do like it, and actually these days I should leave the protein out since I seem to be getting more than enough! Guess I need to make some oopsie rolls, I just always struggle with those! Sometimes they work and sometimes not! I haven't made the hwc/PB/cc yet either
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Old 06-23-2013, 08:53 AM   #275
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Cathy I THOUGHT that was your shake, but was too lazy to go back and look. I do like it, and actually these days I should leave the protein out since I seem to be getting more than enough! Guess I need to make some oopsie rolls, I just always struggle with those! Sometimes they work and sometimes not! I haven't made the hwc/PB/cc yet either
I have good luck with the oopsies, and I bought the muffin top pan as well. I use about 1/8 tsp of xanthum gum in the egg whites and I use a little more cream cheese in the other, and mix gently, works like a charm for me. I hear adding mayo to the yolks works good too, as its more fat and they stay together better!

They are a nice "vessel" though.. LOL
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Old 06-23-2013, 10:00 AM   #276
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I have good luck with the oopsies, and I bought the muffin top pan as well. I use about 1/8 tsp of xanthum gum in the egg whites and I use a little more cream cheese in the other, and mix gently, works like a charm for me. I hear adding mayo to the yolks works good too, as its more fat and they stay together better!

They are a nice "vessel" though.. LOL
You have inspired me! Is the pan called a muffin top pan? How many does it hold? Do you not use any cream of tartar, just the xanthum?? Thanks Cathy!
Kathy
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Old 06-23-2013, 12:11 PM   #277
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You have inspired me! Is the pan called a muffin top pan? How many does it hold? Do you not use any cream of tartar, just the xanthum?? Thanks Cathy!
Kathy
I think its called a muffin top pan... it holds 6... so one batch. No, I still use the cream of tartar too! and the xanthum...
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Old 06-23-2013, 12:28 PM   #278
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Does seem like much, but calorie wise and fat wise it is a big breakfast, but I agree, it had been 5 hours when I tested and I'd think by then it would have been digested. I can't do two meals- I just have to have 3
Thanks for your help in this- my fasting this am is .9
I am with you, Kathy. I have to have 3 smaller meals rather than fewer larger meals.
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Old 06-23-2013, 12:38 PM   #279
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Mine was .8 this AM pretty much the lowest since NK, and I think it was the veggies and not enough fat yesterday.
I have that problem too. I always gain when I have too many veggies, even lettuce. But on the days that I have an extra meal of whipped cream, I lose the next day. Yesterday we went to a BBQ. I ate a small amount of salad, a small amount of smoked pork, and a very little bit of strawberries with whipped cream. I made it so I know it did not have extra sugar in it. I was up a pound today. My husband, on the other hand, had a lot of strawberries and whipped cream an more pork than I had, and he was down this morning. Anyway today is a no vegetable or fruit day. I usually do not eat fruit anyway. I usually only eat vegetables a few times a week.
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Old 06-23-2013, 12:43 PM   #280
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So do you want the ketone readings higher because you eat the fat or because your body is making ketones from metabolising your fat?

If you had higher ketones and were not losing weight, I would think the dietary fat was causing the higher readings.
That might be true if you were eating too much. But we should at least eat a certain amount of calories, so we do not lose muscle in our bodies. If we do not eat enough, it will lower our metabolisms. Since we are not eating much in carbs, we replace those calories in fat. Otherwise we may get sick from not eating enough. Never replace those calories with lean protein. That will make you sick.
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Old 06-23-2013, 12:50 PM   #281
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I have that problem too. I always gain when I have too many veggies, even lettuce. But on the days that I have an extra meal of whipped cream, I lose the next day. Yesterday we went to a BBQ. I ate a small amount of salad, a small amount of smoked pork, and a very little bit of strawberries with whipped cream. I made it so I know it did not have extra sugar in it. I was up a pound today. My husband, on the other hand, had a lot of strawberries and whipped cream an more pork than I had, and he was down this morning. Anyway today is a no vegetable or fruit day. I usually do not eat fruit anyway. I usually only eat vegetables a few times a week.
Carolyn
Carolyn, didja want to get a gun and shoot him? LOL! My husband would have had the same result! So do you maintain the loss when you eat the whipped cream meal? Kathy
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Old 06-23-2013, 12:51 PM   #282
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I am with you, Kathy. I have to have 3 smaller meals rather than fewer larger meals.
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Old 06-23-2013, 12:53 PM   #283
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I think its called a muffin top pan... it holds 6... so one batch. No, I still use the cream of tartar too! and the xanthum...
Okay, I'm going to order one. When you have time would you send me your recipe and how you do it. I have a hard time with Oopsies and the "folding" part of the egg whites never goes well for me! Thanks Cathy!
Kathy
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Old 06-23-2013, 03:41 PM   #284
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Okay, I'm going to order one. When you have time would you send me your recipe and how you do it. I have a hard time with Oopsies and the "folding" part of the egg whites never goes well for me! Thanks Cathy!
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I use 3 eggs (whites in one bowl, yolks in another)
3.5-4 oz of cream cheese, put in with the yolks,
dash/pinch of salt in the yollks
and I use stevia in the yolks too

then in the whites, 1/8 tsp of cream of tartar, 1/8 tsp of xanthum gum.

i mix the whites first, until stiff peaks *a few minutes at most* and then I mix the yolks. I pour the yolks into the whites and using a large spoon just sweep up and over until they are mostly mixed, put them in the muffin top pan, put in the preheated 300 degree oven for 30 minutes..
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Old 06-23-2013, 04:18 PM   #285
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I use 3 eggs (whites in one bowl, yolks in another)
3.5-4 oz of cream cheese, put in with the yolks,
dash/pinch of salt in the yollks
and I use stevia in the yolks too

then in the whites, 1/8 tsp of cream of tartar, 1/8 tsp of xanthum gum.

i mix the whites first, until stiff peaks *a few minutes at most* and then I mix the yolks. I pour the yolks into the whites and using a large spoon just sweep up and over until they are mostly mixed, put them in the muffin top pan, put in the preheated 300 degree oven for 30 minutes..
So I assume you soften the cream cheese? I will try this again with your directions and my new pan when it arrives . I have actually frozen these in the past and they froze really well! Do you oil the pan at all and what brand Stevia are you using? I just ordered Kal- I have never found one I like AT ALL! Thanks again Cathy!
Kathy
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Old 06-23-2013, 06:11 PM   #286
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So I assume you soften the cream cheese? I will try this again with your directions and my new pan when it arrives . I have actually frozen these in the past and they froze really well! Do you oil the pan at all and what brand Stevia are you using? I just ordered Kal- I have never found one I like AT ALL! Thanks again Cathy!
Kathy
I dont soften the cream cheese. straight out of the fridge. i spray the pan with nonstick 0 calorie butter spray or something. i use stevia in the raw...
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Old 06-23-2013, 06:14 PM   #287
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I dont soften the cream cheese. straight out of the fridge. i spray the pan with nonstick 0 calorie butter spray or something. i use stevia in the raw...
Okie Doke! Will try! Have you ever used any Chia Seeds for anything?
I found a recipe for "Oatmeal" with chia seeds, flax and shredded unsweetened
coconut that sounds interesting! Will let ya know! :-) I figure with some heavy cream, would make a good breakfast!
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Old 06-23-2013, 06:39 PM   #288
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I have tried this one once, it was yummy
Safeway - Ground Pecans, 0.093 cup (30 g) (1.5 tbsp)
Kmr - Kk's Bob's Red Mill Ground Flax Seed Meal, 1 tbsp
Sprouts Farmers Market - Shredded Coconut, 1.5 TBSp
Daily Chef - Heavy Whipping Cream, 2 tbs
Butter - Salted, 1 pat (1" sq, 1/3" high)
Spices - Cinnamon, ground, 0.25 tsp

But not with chia seeds... this is called fat fast hot cereal I think. I found it on here somewhere in one of the threads!
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Old 06-23-2013, 06:47 PM   #289
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I have tried this one once, it was yummy
Safeway - Ground Pecans, 0.093 cup (30 g) (1.5 tbsp)
Kmr - Kk's Bob's Red Mill Ground Flax Seed Meal, 1 tbsp
Sprouts Farmers Market - Shredded Coconut, 1.5 TBSp
Daily Chef - Heavy Whipping Cream, 2 tbs
Butter - Salted, 1 pat (1" sq, 1/3" high)
Spices - Cinnamon, ground, 0.25 tsp

But not with chia seeds... this is called fat fast hot cereal I think. I found it on here somewhere in one of the threads!
NICE! I will save this one too! Thanks! Kathy
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Old 06-23-2013, 06:55 PM   #290
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NICE! I will save this one too! Thanks! Kathy
Cathy, this one you can make up a lot of and then just scoop it out!

1/2 C + 2 T chia seeds
1/2 C +2 T Golden Flax Meal
1/2 C +2 finely shredded unsweetened coconut
1/4- 1 cup sweetener (this seems HIGH)???????
1 T +3/4 ground cinnamon.

Then for One serving of prepared "Oatmeal"
1/2 cup hot water
2 T unsweetened coconut milk

1. Combine the chia seed, flax and coconut and sweetener and cinnamon in an airtight container.
2. Scoop out 1/2 cup of "oatmeal" in a serving bowl and keep the rest stored in the airtight container.
3. Pour 1/2 cup of water over the oatmeal mixture and let sit for 3-5 minutes.
4. Add 2 T of cream into the bowl and stir to combine.
5. Top with fresh berries or toasted coconut.

Net carb count 2.76 - makes 4 servings
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Old 06-23-2013, 06:59 PM   #291
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Originally Posted by lovetoknit View Post
That might be true if you were eating too much. But we should at least eat a certain amount of calories, so we do not lose muscle in our bodies. If we do not eat enough, it will lower our metabolisms. Since we are not eating much in carbs, we replace those calories in fat. Otherwise we may get sick from not eating enough. Never replace those calories with lean protein. That will make you sick.
Carolyn
A well formulated NK diet accounts for adequate protein to prevent muscle loss. Muscle is used for glucose production through gluconeogenesis only if other fuel sources are not available as in complete fasting (starvation). When starting a NK diet, the first thing you should figure is your protein requirements. If you google "keto calculator" you will find a very helpful tool for figuring your correct protein levels. Some of us have been stalled for years on LC and found we were eating too much protein. That is not a problem for most people.

NK allows for muscle preservation by eating enough protein for muscle repair and maintenance, but not so much as to supply extra amino acids for gluconeogenesis.

In a keto adapted state, the fat cells are able to supply some of the needed fuel by way of fatty acid release and ketone production. The brain, for example will use Beta ketones and glucose, and the muscle cells can use fatty acids. There is no need for all of your calorie needs to come from food you eat. We want our bodies to use our fat for some of those calories.

When keto adapted, it will look like a lower fat(less than 80%), lower calorie diet because some of the calories your body needs to function are coming out of your fat cells. My cells don't care if the fatty acids come from the breakdown of beef fat, butter, or my fat, but I do. That is how I lose weight.
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Old 06-23-2013, 07:15 PM   #292
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A well formulated NK diet accounts for adequate protein to prevent muscle loss. Muscle is used for glucose production through gluconeogenesis only if other fuel sources are not available as in complete fasting (starvation). When starting a NK diet, the first thing you should figure is your protein requirements. If you google "keto calculator" you will find a very helpful tool for figuring your correct protein levels. Some of us have been stalled for years on LC and found we were eating too much protein. That is not a problem for most people.

NK allows for muscle preservation by eating enough protein for muscle repair and maintenance, but not so much as to supply extra amino acids for gluconeogenesis.

In a keto adapted state, the fat cells are able to supply some of the needed fuel by way of fatty acid release and ketone production. The brain, for example will use Beta ketones and glucose, and the muscle cells can use fatty acids. There is no need for all of your calorie needs to come from food you eat. We want our bodies to use our fat for some of those calories.

When keto adapted, it will look like a lower fat(less than 80%), lower calorie diet because some of the calories your body needs to function are coming out of your fat cells. My cells don't care if the fatty acids come from the breakdown of beef fat, butter, or my fat, but I do. That is how I lose weight.
Very true. That is what I do. I figure my carbs, how much protein I need, and then add in the fat. I do not eat the amount of calories I need to maintain. I don't always count, but I am guessing that I eat about 1400 calories a day. I can eat 2000 calories to maintain my weight. The longer I am LCHF the less food I seem to need. Too much protein does make me gain weight. I can eat extra fat and see a loss the next day, but protein definitely can be a problem.
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Old 06-24-2013, 04:56 AM   #293
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I dont soften the cream cheese. straight out of the fridge. i spray the pan with nonstick 0 calorie butter spray or something. i use stevia in the raw...
So I did the math on the oopsie roll and was a bit surprised- they came
to 100 calories each with 9 grams of fat, 4.5 grams of protein and .6 carbs-
80% fat.

So do you use one or two when you make a "sammich?" Kathy
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Old 06-24-2013, 07:17 AM   #294
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So I did the math on the oopsie roll and was a bit surprised- they came
to 100 calories each with 9 grams of fat, 4.5 grams of protein and .6 carbs-
80% fat.

So do you use one or two when you make a "sammich?" Kathy
Some days one, somedays two... depends. If i skipped breakfast, and using it for lunch, 2... (depends on my calories for the rest of the day...)

I also mix them sometimes in an egg batter with egg and cream and cinnamon, etc.. and then "french toast" them with butter and sf syrup!! yumm!
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Old 06-24-2013, 09:14 AM   #295
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Originally Posted by drjlocarb View Post
A well formulated NK diet accounts for adequate protein to prevent muscle loss. Muscle is used for glucose production through gluconeogenesis only if other fuel sources are not available as in complete fasting (starvation). When starting a NK diet, the first thing you should figure is your protein requirements. If you google "keto calculator" you will find a very helpful tool for figuring your correct protein levels. Some of us have been stalled for years on LC and found we were eating too much protein. That is not a problem for most people.

NK allows for muscle preservation by eating enough protein for muscle repair and maintenance, but not so much as to supply extra amino acids for gluconeogenesis.

In a keto adapted state, the fat cells are able to supply some of the needed fuel by way of fatty acid release and ketone production. The brain, for example will use Beta ketones and glucose, and the muscle cells can use fatty acids. There is no need for all of your calorie needs to come from food you eat. We want our bodies to use our fat for some of those calories.

When keto adapted, it will look like a lower fat(less than 80%), lower calorie diet because some of the calories your body needs to function are coming out of your fat cells. My cells don't care if the fatty acids come from the breakdown of beef fat, butter, or my fat, but I do. That is how I lose weight.
Excellent post!!

I don't subscribe to calorie counting but am always aware of them because of my blasted on line food tracker. I really wish I didn't have to see that # because I know as much as I would like it to have no influence - it does. Working on that!!

I think the really important message is that excess body fat will fill in and that is what the aim is. The idea that a person will lose lean body tissue if they don't consume enough 'calories' is silly. If that were so, I would not be able to hold my own head up by now! It is about eating the appropriate grams of macro nutrients (i.e. fat, protein and carb). The trick is to determine what that is and then keep your eye on that moving target!!
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"The energy content of food (calories) matters, but it is less important than the metabolic effect of food on our body." Dr. P. Attia

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Old 06-24-2013, 09:22 AM   #296
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Excellent post!!

I don't subscribe to calorie counting but am always aware of them because of my blasted on line food tracker. I really wish I didn't have to see that # because I know as much as I would like it to have no influence - it does. Working on that!!

I think the really important message is that excess body fat will fill in and that is what the aim is. The idea that a person will lose lean body tissue if they don't consume enough 'calories' is silly. If that were so, I would not be able to hold my own head up by now! It is about eating the appropriate grams of macro nutrients (i.e. fat, protein and carb). The trick is to determine what that is and then keep your eye on that moving target!!
You do know that if you do not eat enough that your body will hold on to everything, don't you? Maybe you are not eating enough and that is why you are not losing. It is true that calories are not the whole picture. If that were true, eating a little fruit would not make me gain weight. Or too many artificial sweeteners. But your body does need a certain amount of calories for metabolism. If you starve your body, your metabolism slows down and you will not lose at all. It is the way the body protects itself from starvation.
Carolyn

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Old 06-24-2013, 09:29 AM   #297
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Originally Posted by lovetoknit View Post
You do know that if you do not eat enough that your body will hold on to everything, don't you? Maybe you are not eating enough and that is why you are not losing. It is true that calories are not the whole picture. If that were true, eating a little fruit would not make me gain weight. Or too many artificial sweeteners. But your body does need a certain amount of calories for metabolism. If you starve your body, your metabolism slows down and you will not lose at all. It is the way the body protects itself from starvation.
Carolyn
This is what is said but I have not seen any scientific information that this is in fact true in any real way. The whole idea of nutritional ketosis for weight loss is a bit of a hack in that it tricks the body into thinking it is in starvation thus to off load stored fat. The calorie part of it is neither here nor there in my opinion.
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Old 06-24-2013, 09:33 AM   #298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clackley View Post
This is what is said but I have not seen any scientific information that this is in fact true in any real way. The whole idea of nutritional ketosis for weight loss is a bit of a hack in that it tricks the body into thinking it is in starvation thus to off load stored fat. The calorie part of it is neither here nor there in my opinion.
If I eat too little, I do not lose weight. I have known others who have the same problem. When I eat more my body loses better. I do, however severely limit my carbs and make sure that I do not eat too much protein. But when I add in extra fat, I lose better. I am sure not everyone fits into that pattern, but I think there are enough dieters that have that problem to show it is true. Also, I am not tricking my body to think it is in starvation. I eat plenty, and I do not feel like I am starving at all. What I am doing is keeping my blood sugar levels even so that my insulin levels are good and my body does not store fat. Instead it burns fat.
Carolyn

Last edited by lovetoknit; 06-24-2013 at 09:37 AM..
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Old 06-24-2013, 09:38 AM   #299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamkathy01 View Post
So I did the math on the oopsie roll and was a bit surprised- they came
to 100 calories each with 9 grams of fat, 4.5 grams of protein and .6 carbs-
80% fat.

So do you use one or two when you make a "sammich?" Kathy
Kathy, this morning I had oopsie french toast OMG>>>> I forgot how good it is. I used 2 oopsie's... and then I used just the yolk of one egg, and then heavy whipping cream, cinnamon and a little vanilla in the batter... melted butter in the pan, dipped both oopsie's, both sides in the cream/yolk... fried them up, put on some more butter, and a tiny bit of sf syrup!! YUMMMMOOO!! 430 calories (OUCH) and about 87.5% fat!!!
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Old 06-24-2013, 10:43 AM   #300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catjrow3 View Post
Some days one, somedays two... depends. If i skipped breakfast, and using it for lunch, 2... (depends on my calories for the rest of the day...)

I also mix them sometimes in an egg batter with egg and cream and cinnamon, etc.. and then "french toast" them with butter and sf syrup!! yumm!
Oh YUM!! Will try that too! Eating "Fluff" for lunch! :-)
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