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Old 05-31-2013, 11:54 PM   #1
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Sodium and Troubleshooting

Hey All,

So I got my ketone monitor the other day and have done 2 readings, not good so far, .2 and .3 mmol the last 2 mornings so I know I need to change something. I think my protein is too high, was keeping it in between 120-150 grams with most days being on the higher end. Going to drop down to 100 grams and see if I can't get in the magic zone sometime next week. I'm wondering how you guys troubleshoot how much sodium you need each day? I think this might be part of my problem with eating more protein than I should. I think my blood sugar is low so I get anxious and go for a snack of a few ounces of a hamburger or pork. Tonight I wasn't sure what was going on, I felt pretty terrible and had some extra sea salt and it was like BAM, the lights came back on and I felt decent. I'm definitely not shorting myself of it as usually get at least 3 grams everyday and each day in the morning, before I do anything else I take 2 grams (a teaspoon) in some water before I eat. How do you know you might need to up the sodium versus whatever symptoms you might be having is just part of the process of the adaptation phase?
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Old 06-01-2013, 11:22 AM   #2
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Many people find bone broth helps because it also contains other electrolytes and minerals that may be flushed out in the urine along with the sodium. Sodium is only one part of the equation, potassium, magnesium and calcium may also factor in also. Here is a thread that discusses how electrolytes balances need to be maintained when eating a ketogenic diet.

NK and Salt - You must have it!


http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/lo...ike-magic.html

You may not have been following NK guidelines long enough to reach NK. It can take several weeks to months before the blood levels will reach 0.5 or higher.
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Old 06-01-2013, 12:25 PM   #3
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Awesome, thank you drjlocarb! Knowing that it takes awhile to get into NK makes me a little less worried about what I'm doing. Just need to stay the course and monitor what I'm doing.
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Old 06-03-2013, 07:54 AM   #4
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Making your own bone broth is particularly wonderful!!

You don't mention how long you have been trying to get into ketosis but it is worth noting that it can take some people a lot longer than a few days. Although 120g of protein seems a bit high, I would be trying to consume lots of natural fats (in particular coconut oil as it has it's own ketogenic benefits) and keeping carbs below 20g.
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Old 06-03-2013, 10:42 PM   #5
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Salt also can need adjusting depending on exercise and heat and humidity levels. I'm pretty intuitive with it at this point, I imagine anyway that I can feel when I need it. (I also have low blood pressure, so I am not anxious about eating as much salt as I like.) I used to drink broth and salted water, but would rather eat my salt now.

I have maybe three different kinds and am looking for more (flakes, large grain, smoked) and have it on hand in little bowls for meals. Yum.

RE protein-- I started out with levels like yours because I came from Atkins, and I stalled, couldn't get my blood sugar to stabilize and had cravings and felt like heck. You might try going at it from the other direction-- instead of slowly dialing protein down, go quite low in your protein until you establish ketosis and then inch it up. I am not sure how low to suggest you go unless I know your total intake and there is probably someone better here to advise you. Finding high fat low carb snacks might help.

I don't snack any more personally, it's one of my favorite benefits of finally finding High Fat Low Carb, that I don't need to snack in order to stay stable and if anything snacks disrupt my nice even blood sugar. My husband has to snack at times but it is more because his calories tend to run low, the poor guy is hungry. He is more or less at goal (wants to lose 7 more pounds but that is about his 6 pack).

Watch your salt as you really get into ketosis, especially if you are active in the heat.
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Old 06-13-2013, 06:34 PM   #6
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Without knowing how you got to your chosen protein levels (that is, how much you currently weigh, how many calories you need to consume to lose weight, etc.), it's impossible to say whether that is the "right" daily level of protein. One of the challenges with too much protein, of course, is that it can and does convert to glucose, which would make ketosis challenging--and boost your sugar cravings.
Thanks for the reminder about salt--even without the challenges of heat, salt is so very necessary to this WOE.
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Old 07-14-2013, 03:52 PM   #7
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I am still challenged to get enough salt, but getting ideas from this thread and links.
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Old 07-15-2013, 01:59 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perplexity View Post
Salt also can need adjusting depending on exercise and heat and humidity levels. I'm pretty intuitive with it at this point, I imagine anyway that I can feel when I need it. (I also have low blood pressure, so I am not anxious about eating as much salt as I like.) I used to drink broth and salted water, but would rather eat my salt now.

I have maybe three different kinds and am looking for more (flakes, large grain, smoked) and have it on hand in little bowls for meals. Yum.

RE protein-- I started out with levels like yours because I came from Atkins, and I stalled, couldn't get my blood sugar to stabilize and had cravings and felt like heck. You might try going at it from the other direction-- instead of slowly dialing protein down, go quite low in your protein until you establish ketosis and then inch it up. I am not sure how low to suggest you go unless I know your total intake and there is probably someone better here to advise you. Finding high fat low carb snacks might help.

I don't snack any more personally, it's one of my favorite benefits of finally finding High Fat Low Carb, that I don't need to snack in order to stay stable and if anything snacks disrupt my nice even blood sugar. My husband has to snack at times but it is more because his calories tend to run low, the poor guy is hungry. He is more or less at goal (wants to lose 7 more pounds but that is about his 6 pack).

Watch your salt as you really get into ketosis, especially if you are active in the heat.


Good post.

I might suggest adding fat to meals instead of, or at least in addition to, finding snack opportunities to add fat. That way you get practice about what you need for a meal to keep going to the next meal.

Phinney and Volek say goal body wt in kg x your multiplier = grams of protein.
The tricks are to make sure your goal is realistic and to discover your multiplier. In one place, they say it's 1.5 to 2.5, and in another place I believe they suggest between 1.0 and 1.5. At any rate, 1.0 would be the minimum to assure adequate (minimum) protein on this eating style. A lot of people recommend starting at 1.5 and tweaking it from there.

goal weight/2.2 times 1.5 (or whatever multiplier you choose)= daily protein grams.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bella View Post
I am still challenged to get enough salt, but getting ideas from this thread and links.
Dill pickles are one handy, tasty way for those who aren't broth-lovers.
Canned veggies. Soy sauce. Capers. Anchovies.
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Old 07-22-2013, 06:48 AM   #9
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Can't do anchovies, but capers yes. I eat dill pickes and drink the juice. I guess I'll substitute soy for liquid aminos in my fav flax seed cracker recipe. I add a pinch of salt to my coffee. Actually improves the taste, imo. I am now eating half an avocado per day, well salted. I am cooking my fish and chicken in well salted broth. I'd rather drink salt water than over salt my food and ruin the taste. Some cheeses, especially some bleus, are too salty for me to enjoy.

I am doing a lot better finding the balance, quite a bit of trial and error. I keep a bottle of salted water by my bed and take a slurp if I get a cramp. Haven't had to do this for over a week. When I go to bed and think my salt consumption is low, I take a slurp from this bottle. Should have done this last night. I woke up with a rare ever so slight headache, which signals to me that I became a bit dehydrated. I matched my all time low weight after a bounces up. Due to water not fat loss I am guessing. I worked outside some yesterday (hot and humid) and probably needed a bit more salt than usual.

So today more salt and water!

Last edited by Patience; 07-22-2013 at 06:53 AM..
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Old 07-22-2013, 07:08 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bella View Post
Can't do anchovies, but capers yes. I eat dill pickes and drink the juice. I guess I'll substitute soy for liquid aminos in my fav flax seed cracker recipe. I add a pinch of salt to my coffee. Actually improves the taste, imo. I am now eating half an avocado per day, well salted. I am cooking my fish and chicken in well salted broth. I'd rather drink salt water than over salt my food and ruin the taste. Some cheeses, especially some bleus, are too salty for me to enjoy.

I am doing a lot better finding the balance, quite a bit of trial and error. I keep a bottle of salted water by my bed and take a slurp if I get a cramp. Haven't had to do this for over a week. When I go to bed and think my salt consumption is low, I take a slurp from this bottle. Should have done this last night. I woke up with a rare ever so slight headache, which signals to me that I became a bit dehydrated. I matched my all time low weight after a bounces up. Due to water not fat loss I am guessing. I worked outside some yesterday (hot and humid) and probably needed a bit more salt than usual.

So today more salt and water!
I admire how you are dialing in on your body's needs. It's sort of like owning a Harley--- runs great but there's always room for tweaking stuff. Salt, fat from avocado, water, minerals......

Last edited by emel; 07-22-2013 at 07:09 AM..
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Old 07-22-2013, 07:14 AM   #11
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