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Old 05-30-2013, 09:18 AM   #1
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WOE: Nutritional Ketosis
Start Date: February 25, 2014
My nutritional ketosis formula

I know this wont apply to everyone.

Like many I called myself keeping my carbs below 20 a day and still had trouble getting into ketosis. When I managed to get to .5 mmol I would mysteriously get kicked out.

For me, I now know I have to count actual carbs, not net carbs.
I have to stay below 20 actual carbs a day.
If I eat more than 80 grams of protein, it will kick me out..
If I eat or drink diet anything with an artificial sweetener, it will kick me out.

I can maintain my weight loss at 20 net carbs a day but not lose any.
As best I can figure, my numbers to get into ketosis and lose weight is
1700 calories , less than 20 actual carbs, less than 80 G protein and 140 g fat.

I am a 60 yr old male 5' 10" and have lost from 225 down to 198. Have been plateaued for a while until I figured this out for me! Hope this helps.

Anyone else having trouble getting and staying in ketosis ?
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Old 05-30-2013, 10:33 AM   #2
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yes. my endo, who is well respected at one of the top med schools in the country, attributes it to my abnormally high insulin level. keeping carbs and protein both super low, eating almost nothing but fat, didn't do anything for me. the only time my ketones were high is after I'd had a huge amount of EVCO, and obviously it was the coconut oil that it was counting, not anything my body produced.

I would question why you think counting fiber as carbs helps, when you don't DIGEST fiber as carbs? the definition of carbohydrate includes things humans don't digest, like wood fiber/cellulose, and is really the wrong thing to be reporting in nutrition facts.

do you have a theory? personally I think counting total carbs is nonsense, and that the only reason it works for people is that it gets their REAL carb level down to what it needs to be. But I would be interested in any evidence to the contrary.

the problem with it is that it encourages a different choice of carb sources, prejudiced against vegetables which should probably not happen

In any case, one should think about soluble and insoluble fiber differently, since they aren't even remotely the same, and neither is remotely like carbohydrates to our bodies... it's an interesting question.
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Last edited by ravenrose; 05-30-2013 at 10:38 AM..
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Old 05-30-2013, 11:02 AM   #3
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too late to edit, but I wanted to add:

I don't mean to sound disrespectful! I empathize with your problem! but I think it would be better to count net carbs (netting out only fiber) and figuring out what your real carb tolerance is.

maybe 5, maybe 10, maybe 15... the trouble with counting total is that you could be getting random amounts of real carbs per day, ranging from about 2 to 20, so you don't know what level is really working for you.

don't call "total carbs" "actual carbs" in any case, please? when we use the term "carb" in nutrition we mean the nutrient our bodies digest, so "actual carbs" would be net carbs, not total.

Last edited by ravenrose; 05-30-2013 at 11:03 AM..
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Old 05-30-2013, 12:07 PM   #4
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Hello and welcome Barrybush. Your story just goes to show how different we all are. I can tell you that I have not trouble getting in and staying in ketosis. I can count net carbs and consume artificial sweeteners (not sugar alcohols... those a a different category all together) and I do keep my protein grams to 55 or less. My fat grams are typically around 90.

This keeps me in ketosis and I get readings of about 2.0 first thing in the morning. Ketosis does not assure weight loss ... at all.

Ravenrose, I had occasion to listen to a podcast with Dr. Richard Berntein recently and his take on why fiber should not be subtracted by some is that the volume was the actual issue. Enough fiber will cause the abdomen to expand and that in and of itself is enough to cause a reaction.
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Old 05-31-2013, 02:38 PM   #5
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WOE: Nutritional Ketosis
Start Date: February 25, 2014
I agree that we are all different. Just reading the posts it seems there are quite a few of us having a harder time getting into and staying in nutritional ketosis. Our numbers can be very different.

My point is that I have discovered for me to get into and stay in NK all I can drink is water ( about a gallon a day) and some chicken broth. And I must keep my total carbs below 20 and stay away from any artificial sweeteners. Less than 80 grams protein and at least 140 g fat. Not fun, but doable if I am serious about my weight loss.
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