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-   -   Need Advice or Help-- Ketosis diet: (http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/nutritional-ketosis-high-fat-low-carb/804607-need-advice-help-ketosis-diet.html)

Fast Eddie 05-22-2013 06:57 AM

Need Advice or Help-- Ketosis diet:
 
I am 4 days into my 5th week of the Ketosis diet. I initially lost 8 lbs quickly.Then-- 3lbs. more-- VERY SLOWLY.I am now at a complete standstill and I still am not into Ketosis.I do have the urine test strips. I drink 120 oz+++ of water each day. No cheating ( beer,bread-potato's,goodies etc). I had heart surgery 10 years ago (mitral valve replace) I am on blood pressure meds,coumadin, &cholesterol pill (pravachol). I'm wondering if the cholesterol pill is preventing Ketosis. I've read "it takes 48hrs to 2 weeks to get into Ketosis". I am frustrated at this point. My starting point weight was 244--Now at 233lbs. again--- after almost 5 weeks.My goal is to weigh 200 or slightly under (I'm not looking for miracles). Any advice is greatly appreciated--Thank You+++I applaud all low carb. people---you are all my hero's. This is a tough Mental diet to deal with. Willpower&Determination Over-Rules all ! Edward

drjlocarb 05-22-2013 07:11 AM

:welcome: Eddie!

Congratulations on 11 pounds in 4 1/2 weeks!!

It is normal to have a large weight loss when first starting any LC type diet, a slight stall, and then a 1-2 lb loss each week after that. The body has to adjust to this new way of eating.

We can be of more help if you tell us what you are eating, height, and age.

What are your cal/fat/ptn/carb levels now? Are you tracking?

Keto sticks are not all that reliable as an indicator of ketosis.

clackley 05-22-2013 07:15 AM

Welcome! Great start. I wonder if you are following a specific plan? The problem with not doing so is that you can trip yourself up unintentionally.

The ketostix are ok for confirming ketosis but are notoriously bad for giving false negative results for a # of reasons. I would be more inclined to go by the actual symptoms of ketosis or use a blood ketone meter.

Patience 05-22-2013 07:22 AM

Some folks here are more knowledgeable than I am, but seems to me that losing 11 pounds in a month is fantastic. It is not a stall. The test strips do not always tell the story about ketosis. It's a good thing you are not looking for miracles, as the best course may just be to stay the course. Tweek where you can. Are you following induction rules? You can always post a menu and get feedback.

Punkin 05-23-2013 06:19 AM

In the beginning a lot of the weight loss is water weight and glycogen storage. It takes awhile for the fat loss to show up because the body starts storing water and glycogen again after the initial stage. I wouldn't worry about the numbers on the scale, just stick with the plan and it will happen.

clackley 05-23-2013 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Punkin (Post 16436708)
In the beginning a lot of the weight loss is water weight and glycogen storage. It takes awhile for the fat loss to show up because the body starts storing water and glycogen again after the initial stage. I wouldn't worry about the numbers on the scale, just stick with the plan and it will happen.

Not sure this is accurate. I don't see how glycogen would be stored again if low carb woe is continued. Please forgive me if I have this wrong.

The release of glycogen and fluid in the initial stages is most of the weight loss experienced to begin with but it is likely not all fluid and some fat loss would be part of it. If carbohydrates are low enough and protein is moderate enough, the body will continue to use fat stores as fuel and thus more weight loss. However, the fat cells can and do temporarily fill with fluid but this is a situation with fluid balance and nothing to do with fat loss. It is just confusing on the scale.

Fast Eddie 05-23-2013 08:00 AM

Thank You, Most Sincerely--Edward
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Punkin (Post 16436708)
In the beginning a lot of the weight loss is water weight and glycogen storage. It takes awhile for the fat loss to show up because the body starts storing water and glycogen again after the initial stage. I wouldn't worry about the numbers on the scale, just stick with the plan and it will happen.

Encouragement is EVERYTHING in my book !!! A person on a diet or with a serious medical problem soon finds out who TRUE friends are (or like me --NONE at all)).You can't drink alcohol--If you attend a barb-q or a function, you eat a bland light meal and you're made fun of etc. I guess the best quote here is "He who laughs LAST---laugh's BEST" ! Back to business---I also drink whey isolate once a day for a protein BOOST. I limit the carbs to the minimum. ( I'm no dietician by no means )I drink 120 oz of water---- plus diet pop with my meals &coffee for breakfast. Nothing yet on the Ketostix. I'm now down 12lbs---tomorrow will be 5 weeks. I appreciate your thoughtfulness on the comeback& all others likewise---THANK YOU ALL . Getting ready for Memorial day !! YIKES !!! Edward

Punkin 05-24-2013 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clackley (Post 16436738)
Not sure this is accurate. I don't see how glycogen would be stored again if low carb woe is continued. Please forgive me if I have this wrong.

The release of glycogen and fluid in the initial stages is most of the weight loss experienced to begin with but it is likely not all fluid and some fat loss would be part of it. If carbohydrates are low enough and protein is moderate enough, the body will continue to use fat stores as fuel and thus more weight loss. However, the fat cells can and do temporarily fill with fluid but this is a situation with fluid balance and nothing to do with fat loss. It is just confusing on the scale.

Sorry, I didn't realize anyone had responded. Once many of the cells switch to being fat adapted, the body is able to store the storage form of glucose called glycogen back in the muscles and some of the other cells. I noticed some changes such as weight increase, after switching to LC even though I was losing body fat. But how long fat adaption takes I think depends on the person. It seemed to take me more than two months to become fully fat adapted. I kept struggling with low blood sugar and hypoglycemia. It wasn't as much fun as it is now:)

Leo41 05-26-2013 04:46 AM

"I don't see how glycogen would be stored again if low carb woe is continued."

From everything I've read about low-carb eating (Atkins, Eades, Taubes), this is correct. The storage of glycogen only occurs if the individual eats sufficient carbs to go out of ketosis. The instant 'weight gain' that's experienced [and often confused to new low carbers] is from the water necessary for the glycogen storage.

Person who remains in ketosis doesn't store glycogen. In a TV interview I saw with Dr. Phinney, it seemed to me that's the basis of his book on low-carb performance for athletes--i.e., to convince them that they can compete effectively while in ketosis and that there's no necessity for the 'carb loading' that's commonly believed to be essential.

drjlocarb 05-26-2013 06:50 AM

I have to agree with Cathy and Leo.

You cannot store glycogen if there are no excess dietary carbs available for storage. The reason glucose is made from excess dietary protein through gluconeogenesis is because there is no glycogen available for use.

If it is true that we have glycogen stores available when in ketosis, can you provide a source so we can read that study or paper?

Geekin' in Utah 05-26-2013 02:46 PM

Eddie, can you post a couple days worth of food, including weights/amounts? It is easy for carbs to hide in your food. Having a food log is extremely valuable.

I also wouldn't suffer eating "bland" meals. Carbs are not required to make exciting, flavorful meals. I also wouldn't limit social interactions, just make those about the people rather than the food.

It is fairly common for people to stall after the first couple weeks (known as PISS [post-induction scale stall] on one board I frequent) as the body adjusts fluid levels and prepares itself for keto-adaptation. As others have mentioned, ketostix can be notoriously unreliable for measuring whether you re in ketosis. This becomes worse over time, too. If you have a personality that must know, get a blood ketone meter (they can be found for free, but prepare to pay for the strips). I am one of those. :)


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