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Old 05-07-2013, 09:07 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drjlocarb View Post
You are right, fat isn't the problem. I do eat high fat, I just don't add a lot of extra now that my body is using what I have stored. I lowered calories (fat) when I knew I was keto-adapted (my ketones reached such a high level) because my protein and carbs are already at the lower end. I still eat a high fat diet, (yes, the steak fat is yummy), I just cut down on the coconut candy and fat bombs to lower calories from food.

I look at it this way, I am still consuming a very high fat, high calorie diet, but part of the fat (calories) I am consuming is body fat. I am getting several hundred calories a day from my own body fat to cover the "energy expenditure" levels recommended. That means the calories I USE each day are higher than the calories I eat.

When I talked about age, what I meant was that you probably haven't ruined your metabolism by yo-yo dieting for the last 20 years. I do see the conflicts you are facing with social pressure. I didn't think about that, but you have to do what works for you.

Please do keep us posted on your progress.
Sorry, I was joking with my comments when it came to peer pressure. I do experience it, but I also do realize that as we get older our metabolism naturally slows down. Yo-yo dieting makes it difficult as well.

I feel like I have been on a diet all of my life. I was chubby little kid and my parents and brother let me know all the time. I was always told to watch what I ate. At the end of my junior year of HS, I decided to make a change. I just started eating less and the weight came off. My weight has gone up and down throughout the years, mainly when I enter the honeymoon stages with my girlfriends. My current relationship of 8 years, I bought my girlfriend a cake every month for the first year and we would gorge. I gained like 30 lbs the first year and 60 lbs in total. When my mom had cancer for the second time, I realized I had to change, which was two years ago. This is what led me to change how I ate and discovered, atkins, primal/paleo, and now NK.

I'll definitely keep you posted. I like your suggestions and comments.
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Old 05-07-2013, 09:22 AM   #32
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Where r u at with your macro ratios?

The proteins are hard to dial in.

When I started I was eating higher protein as well..closer to 75/20/5, but when I changed to 80/15/5 I noticed all the physical symptoms, but no weight loss. After I reduced my calories a bit, I noticed weight loss, but LBM as well. Now that I've changed over and increased my protein levels, my ketone levels aren't as high, but I continue to see me lose weight. Also the physical symptoms, metal taste and smells, have subsided. I'm eating about 100-150 kcals above my BMR of my ideal weight of 190.[/quote]

My ratios have been averaging around 70/20/10 and I haven't been losing. Darin had suggested that maybe I could lower the protein and increase the fat and see if that would kick start losses. So I am trying to get to 80/15/5.

I feel great and I can power through my workouts better than I ever have before. I did a 2 hour kickboxing/bootcamp workout on Sat without eating breakfast and I never bonked! I even did more than I usually push myself to do, simply because I felt so good!

I'm trying to find the sweet spot to lose a bit more fat and fuel my workouts. If I could just find a way to get rid of the last of this belly fat, I would be content to eat this way forever.
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Old 05-07-2013, 11:01 AM   #33
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I've read that Jimmy Moore had to lower protein quite a bit to get an optimal reading for blood ketones and start losing again.

I'm trying to lower protein and have been eating between 75 and 80 g per day. I think 70 g is the lowest I can go and maintain lean body mass.
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Old 05-07-2013, 01:25 PM   #34
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mrskuby, it can take some people 6-8 weeks to become keto-adapted.

I was LC for a very long time before NK and it still took 9 weeks before I was above 0.5 daily. My night readings were good, but mornings took some time.
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Old 05-07-2013, 01:29 PM   #35
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MRSKUBY,

Experiment with one variable at a time. Start by lowering calories or maybe try lowering carbs.

I just came across a post form Paul Jamient's site that suggest that using BCAA on a higher protein ketogenic diet replaced the need for going HF moderate protein. I want to link to it here, but I just got dung for linking to another websites article because they promote good and services. Search for the article, it's called Ketogenic Diets 2: Preventing Muscle and Bone Loss on Ketogenic Diets. It maybe a way to experiment with BCAA and eating higher protein, an experiment I may want to explore.
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Old 05-10-2013, 08:49 AM   #36
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Day 21 - Measurements

May 10, 2013

Weight: 206.2 (down 7 lbs total)
Body Fat %: 19%
Lean Body Mass: 167.02 (down 1.8 lbs) down 1.7 lbs from last week....worries me that I'm losing LBM too quickly now.
Fat Mass: 39.2 (down 5.2 lbs)

Waist: 38.5
Chest: 42.75
Arm: 15
Leg: 22
Total: 118.25 (2.75 inches lost for two weeks, and .75 from last)

The loss of lean body mass is the biggest concern for me. The largest drop of LBM this week from the previous. I did increase my intensity on my workout making sure I worked out to failure on each exercise, but it was exhausting by the end. I did increase my protein intake to compensate for the losses, but didn't work as well as I thought...maybe it's factor of losing fat mass. I'll try lifting heavier to see if that makes a difference, as I was focusing on form rather than lifting extremely heavy. I'll also consider increasing my protein intake further.
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Old 05-10-2013, 12:21 PM   #37
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action, correct me if I'm wrong, are you using calipers to measure LBM?

I am not so sure that is completely accurate. I also read somewhere that some LBM is lost with fat loss, as measured in a lab, because of loss of non-fat contents of fat cells and structures around the cells.

You may want to head over to the exercise section and ask about LBM. Muscle Matters! - Low Carb Friends
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Old 05-11-2013, 07:14 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRSKUBY View Post
Where r u at with your macro ratios?

The proteins are hard to dial in.

When I started I was eating higher protein as well..closer to 75/20/5, but when I changed to 80/15/5 I noticed all the physical symptoms, but no weight loss. After I reduced my calories a bit, I noticed weight loss, but LBM as well. Now that I've changed over and increased my protein levels, my ketone levels aren't as high, but I continue to see me lose weight. Also the physical symptoms, metal taste and smells, have subsided. I'm eating about 100-150 kcals above my BMR of my ideal weight of 190.
My ratios have been averaging around 70/20/10 and I haven't been losing. Darin had suggested that maybe I could lower the protein and increase the fat and see if that would kick start losses. So I am trying to get to 80/15/5.

I feel great and I can power through my workouts better than I ever have before. I did a 2 hour kickboxing/bootcamp workout on Sat without eating breakfast and I never bonked! I even did more than I usually push myself to do, simply because I felt so good!

I'm trying to find the sweet spot to lose a bit more fat and fuel my workouts. If I could just find a way to get rid of the last of this belly fat, I would be content to eat this way forever.[/QUOTE]

I started at 75/20/5, then went to 80/15/5, and I''m currently about 77/18/5 to 75/20/5. Still in ketosis.

Have you measured you BMR lately and adjust your caloric intake accordingly? Have you tried lowering your caloric intake, 10% less on you rest days? Have you considered intermittent fasting?

Once your keto-adapted, the energy level is amazing. It took me 3-4 weeks before my workouts were back on track. Keep pushing yourself, but not too much. I've read that adequate rest is as important as the workout. Your body needs to recover.

Last edited by actionzen; 05-11-2013 at 07:35 PM..
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Old 05-11-2013, 07:30 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drjlocarb View Post
action, correct me if I'm wrong, are you using calipers to measure LBM?

I am not so sure that is completely accurate. I also read somewhere that some LBM is lost with fat loss, as measured in a lab, because of loss of non-fat contents of fat cells and structures around the cells.

You may want to head over to the exercise section and ask about LBM. Muscle Matters! - Low Carb Friends
Yes I'm using calipers and I have mentioned how inaccurate it can be, but i look at like measuring my waist. If I see that my measurements decrease, I'm making progress in my fat loss. I would like to get a dexa scan, but here in CA that requires a prescription. So not only do I have to pay for the scan, I'll have to pay a doctor $125 for a script. I'll do it when I'm close to my goals, but for now, the calipers work just fine.

I read the same that LBM is lost with fat loss and what you're saying seems correct. What I wrote was merely thoughts, like i'm thinking out loud. Since my focus has always been to lose fat mass first, that will be my primary focus. When I reach my goal, I'll adjust my macros and workouts to increase LBM.

I do know that increasing my protein intake a bit hasn't affected my state of ketosis. I also think that calories do matter if you want fat loss. I also think IF can promote fat loss as well. I have a couple other experiments, but I don't want to express it yet as I don't want to influence anyone early in their quest to reach ketosis, which is the first goal.

And drj, thank you for starting this thread, which led me to look at BMR more closely. It really allowed me to narrow my focus and create an objective way to experiment in ketosis.

Yesterdays numbers, Day 21 of ketosis:
Weight: 206.2 (down 7 lbs total)
Body Fat %: 19%
Lean Body Mass: 167.02 (down 1.8 lbs) down 1.7 lbs from last week....worries me that I'm losing LBM too quickly now.

Fat Mass: 39.2 (down 5.2 lbs)
Waist: 38.5
Chest: 42.75
Arm: 15
Leg: 22
Total: 118.25 (2.75 inches lost for two weeks, and .75 from last)

Calories: 1810.6
Fats: 151 (75%)
Protein: 97 (21%)
Carbs: 15.9 (4%)

Todays numbers:

Weight: 204.4
Ketones: 3.1
Glucose: 83

Calories: 1,834
Fats: 154 (76%)
Protein: 93 (20%)
Carbs: 19.2 (4%)

Still concerned with my LBM decrease. I know this site can be intimidating, as I am totally intimidated, but I'm considering using the concept within ketosis. Check out leangains.com.

Last edited by actionzen; 05-11-2013 at 07:37 PM..
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