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Old 04-14-2013, 02:52 PM   #1
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Hi, I am new!

Hello! few of you on main forum recommended NK to me. So here I am

Basically, I want to try NK to see if I can get my carb binging under control. I never had an issue with losing weight on Atkins as well as JUDD, but I just can't control the carb binging. The binging mostly occurs during PMS for me.

I was wondering what is the difference between NK and Eat Fat Get Thin?

I have calculated my numbers according to the formula I found on MDA.

Does this looks right?

Goal weight 120 lb/54 kg:

protein 59 gr
carbs 27 gr
fat 135 gr

calories 1617 (sedentary), 2228 (light activity)

Thanks!
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Old 04-14-2013, 03:27 PM   #2
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I don't know the difference between the two, but I can tell you without a doubt that NK works for people who struggle with binges. When I am in NK, I can sit and watch someone eat a whole box of doughnuts and not want them. Unfortunately, I made a conscious decision this past Friday night to go off plan and my issues with food have come back!! It's a terrible feeling to not feel in control after having control over my bingeing. It wasn't worth the heartache I am now experiencing. NK is the best way to eat for me.
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Old 04-15-2013, 04:29 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfine View Post
I don't know the difference between the two, but I can tell you without a doubt that NK works for people who struggle with binges. When I am in NK, I can sit and watch someone eat a whole box of doughnuts and not want them. Unfortunately, I made a conscious decision this past Friday night to go off plan and my issues with food have come back!! It's a terrible feeling to not feel in control after having control over my bingeing. It wasn't worth the heartache I am now experiencing. NK is the best way to eat for me.
Thanks for sharing you success. I am sorry to hear about the conscious slip. I am sure that's confirms that NK is great for you.

I can't wait to get started.
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Old 04-15-2013, 04:31 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by jeaniem View Post
Marika- Where did you find the info at MDA? I couldn't find anything?
Jeanie- got to MDA forum, go to Primal Blueprint Nutrition, you will see thread: Eat More Fat! The Nutritional Ketosis Challenge continues...
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Old 04-15-2013, 05:06 AM   #5
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What are the percentage for fat, protein and carbs. Sorry if this has been asked. I am entering this info in ************. I know the grams but not the percentage.

Also, any of you doing NK without the meter? I really don't think I can do the meter.
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Old 04-15-2013, 06:32 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tobelowcarber View Post
What are the percentage for fat, protein and carbs. Sorry if this has been asked. I am entering this info in ************. I know the grams but not the percentage.

Also, any of you doing NK without the meter? I really don't think I can do the meter.
Hi Marika

If you have your grams then you have enough information to calculate your macro percentages.

Protein and carbs are 4 calories per gram. Fat is 9 calories per gram. For example:

Protein 100g = 400 calories
Carbs 30g = 120 calories
Fat 150g = 1350 calories

Total calories = 1870

Protein % = 400/1870 = 21%
Carb % = 120/1870 = 6%
Fat % = 1350/1870 = 72%

Testing blood ketones is useful but not required unless you have some special need to know your actual levels. An athlete, for instance, that is keto-adapted benefits from having an accurate picture of how efficiently they are using fat for fuel and being higher in the NK range (0.5 to 3.0) is better for them. But for weight loss it is not a critical issue and you can infer how well you are doing from your results.

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Old 04-15-2013, 06:56 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tobelowcarber View Post
Hello! few of you on main forum recommended NK to me. So here I am

Basically, I want to try NK to see if I can get my carb binging under control. I never had an issue with losing weight on Atkins as well as JUDD, but I just can't control the carb binging. The binging mostly occurs during PMS for me.

I was wondering what is the difference between NK and Eat Fat Get Thin?

I have calculated my numbers according to the formula I found on MDA.

Does this looks right?

Goal weight 120 lb/54 kg:

protein 59 gr
carbs 27 gr
fat 135 gr

calories 1617 (sedentary), 2228 (light activity)

Thanks!
EFGT looks similar but the carb levels look a lot looser and they use net carbs don't they? NK has a 50g total carb (not net) ceiling. The way they calculate protein looks similar to the way it is calculated in the Performance book but dissimilar from the Living book.

Your numbers look okay

Phinney talked a little bit about the inflammatory nature of menses in the Long Term Stalls podcast:

NK - Phinney & Jimmy Moore - Long Term Stalls podcast
59:10 - TOM - Monthly stall. Inflammatory phase just before menses. Cold water fish or fish oil may help too because of omega 3. [ Me - Perhaps reducing carbs as low as possible and not overeating protein would combat this?]
You might google around for foods that increase inflammation and try to avoid them during that time frame to minimize the impact of your cycle.

I think that loosening up on calorie restriction is probably a good idea too. A caloric deficit is stressful on the body so a deficit that is okay the rest of the month may be too much added stress for that three to ten days.
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Old 04-15-2013, 07:06 AM   #8
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Hi Marika! Welcome to our little section of the boards... I'm glad you found your way over!

I know I was one of the ones who recommended you check out NK as a way of helping you beat the binging you've been struggling with. I'm the same way as cfine pretty much! Before, I used to yo-yo diet and THINK that I found something that worked (which was basically depriving myself of EVERYTHING until I gave in) and then when I allowed myself to have "just ONE" of something that I had trouble controlling myself with... all of a sudden I was spiraling out of control.

I think my biggest trouble was with rice, bread, and sweets... never was much of a potato chip/french fry person... but give me a plate of rice, and man will I ever eat it. I've actually eaten a whole loaf of french bread by myself in one sitting too in the past. A half of a large pizza... a whole apple pie in a couple day's worth of binging... you get the picture

Anyway, I realized that no matter what I did I ALWAYS eventually caved in when someone told me "come on, ONE piece won't kill you." And that became my mentality too. I'd think about how well I'd been doing, and think I should reward myself by letting myself have a little bit of something that I gave up... and then one piece became one piece every day... and then the one piece turned into five pieces, and then I was stuck all over again

That being said I haven't had ANY of these things happen once since starting NK! I think the key is seriously the FAT. Fat keeps people feeling satisfied, and when you enjoy what you're eating as much as you do and the fat keeps you feeling full and satisfied with what you actually DID have... you kind of don't even think about what you CAN'T have. At least that's been my experience with it

If there's one thing I've learned in the past few months, it's that carbs actually MAKE you crave more of them when they're eaten! There's a reason that people who start binging on carbs feel like they can't stop until they're sick and are disappointed with themselves... it's because those starchy carbs actually promote cravings, and make you overeat. That's not to say of course that you don't have control over your own body, because you definitely do. But that's where the cravings come from, and that's why our willpower isn't always enough to trump what's going on in our bodies on a biological level. Some of us are more sensitive to carbs than others... it's likely if you experience control issues and problems with binging that you're probably one of us who are quite sensitive to their effects too.

A lot of us have been there, and can definitely understand and try and offer you some suggestions on how to beat the binge. NK is a GREAT start, and it's done wonders for me... so I really hope it works for you too!
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Old 04-15-2013, 07:16 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reddarin View Post
Phinney talked a little bit about the inflammatory nature of menses in the Long Term Stalls podcast:

NK - Phinney & Jimmy Moore - Long Term Stalls podcast
59:10 - TOM - Monthly stall. Inflammatory phase just before menses. Cold water fish or fish oil may help too because of omega 3. [ Me - Perhaps reducing carbs as low as possible and not overeating protein would combat this?]
You might google around for foods that increase inflammation and try to avoid them during that time frame to minimize the impact of your cycle.

I think that loosening up on calorie restriction is probably a good idea too. A caloric deficit is stressful on the body so a deficit that is okay the rest of the month may be too much added stress for that three to ten days.
I was going to mention this, about inflammation and fish oil, as well. I've found that if I take my fish oil supplements very faithfully for those last two weeks of my cycle, then when my period starts it isn't quite so awful. Also, this may be a total coincidence, but things have been better since I've been supplementing with magnesium more consistently. But it does seem that it's what I do during those last two weeks of my cycle that determines how the next cycle is going to go. So I recommend STRICTLY avoiding all grains during those two weeks. And if/when those TOM cravings do hit, I actually *reduce* my carbs even more, and replace them with coconut oil! That seems to be the only way for me to successfully get through it.
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Old 04-15-2013, 07:18 AM   #10
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Old 04-15-2013, 07:20 AM   #11
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Marika!
I've only been doing NK about 2 weeks and I love it.
There are some very sweet, helpful people here so ask any questions you have.
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Old 04-15-2013, 08:03 AM   #12
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Reddarin- thank you for the calculation. Math was never my favorite subject Thank you for the info about the inflammation

raindroproses- Thank you so much for recommending NK to me and sharing you story! I am so glad that fat can help with cravings

Greta- thank you for mentioning the fish oil. I used to take CLO and stopped. I am sure I could use it as my vit D levels are in the toilet.

Janette-
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Old 04-15-2013, 08:42 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by tobelowcarber View Post
Greta- thank you for mentioning the fish oil. I used to take CLO and stopped. I am sure I could use it as my vit D levels are in the toilet.
I used to take CLO as well, but I have read some conflicting information about the benefits versus potential problems with the high levels of Vit A in it. Very confusing! Some people claim that the Vit A content is so high that it blocks your body from absorbing the Vit D in it. I don't know if that's true or not. Has anyone here researched it?
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Old 04-15-2013, 08:48 AM   #14
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I used to take CLO as well, but I have read some conflicting information about the benefits versus potential problems with the high levels of Vit A in it. Very confusing! Some people claim that the Vit A content is so high that it blocks your body from absorbing the Vit D in it. I don't know if that's true or not. Has anyone here researched it?
I have also read this. I think Mercola posted about this. I don't know what to think about it.
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Old 04-15-2013, 03:51 PM   #15
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My first day went very well! No cravings at all and this is after being in the binge mode for the past 2 weeks

this is what I ate:

B: 4 oz baked wild salmon, 3 oz steamed green beans, 3 Tbl homemade mayo, 1 Tbl coconut oil
L: 5.5 baked turkey tenderloin with 2 tbl mayo
D: 9 oz roasted asparagus with 2 Tbl EVOO, salad with lettuce, cucumber, carrots, 1 Tbl EVOO

1550 cal
149 gr fat
63 gr protein
30 gr gross carbs

I am surprised that I actually went over on my fat.
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Old 04-15-2013, 04:05 PM   #16
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Ok guys, I need your help again. Looking at my numbers, I don't think 59 gr is the correct amount of protein. I think I should be multiplying my goal weight by 1.5 -2, right? So that would mean my protein would be 81 (at 54 kg goal). I am little confused now (I think I am still under influence of carbs ) . How do I calculate the carbs and fat now?
Originally I have used the Dr Kwasniewski formula from MDA. This is the formula:

Take your height in centimeters and subtract 100. This is your goal weight in kilograms.
Goal weight in kilos plus/minus 10% = range for protein grams/day
Goal weight in kilos divided by 2 = upper end for carb grams/day
The rest of your diet is fat. Goal weight in kilos x anywhere from 2.5 to 3.5 depending on your weight goals (lower to lose, higher to gain)

Last edited by tobelowcarber; 04-15-2013 at 04:09 PM..
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Old 04-15-2013, 04:49 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by tobelowcarber View Post
Ok guys, I need your help again. Looking at my numbers, I don't think 59 gr is the correct amount of protein. I think I should be multiplying my goal weight by 1.5 -2, right? So that would mean my protein would be 81 (at 54 kg goal). I am little confused now (I think I am still under influence of carbs ) . How do I calculate the carbs and fat now?
Originally I have used the Dr Kwasniewski formula from MDA. This is the formula:

Take your height in centimeters and subtract 100. This is your goal weight in kilograms.
Goal weight in kilos plus/minus 10% = range for protein grams/day
Goal weight in kilos divided by 2 = upper end for carb grams/day
The rest of your diet is fat. Goal weight in kilos x anywhere from 2.5 to 3.5 depending on your weight goals (lower to lose, higher to gain)
Ah. I thought you'd found the Performance book's formula. There are only two for NK - the Living book or the Performance book. The Optimal Diet formula gives results close to the Performance book's formula depending on LBM and BF numbers used.

Yes, 81g is about right using 1.5g/kg. Start there, give yourself 2 to 4 weeks to become keto adapted and tweak after that if needed. Be patient.
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Old 04-16-2013, 03:08 AM   #18
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Ah. I thought you'd found the Performance book's formula. There are only two for NK - the Living book or the Performance book. The Optimal Diet formula gives results close to the Performance book's formula depending on LBM and BF numbers used.

Yes, 81g is about right using 1.5g/kg. Start there, give yourself 2 to 4 weeks to become keto adapted and tweak after that if needed. Be patient.
Thanks reddarin! Can please share the formula from Living book. Is this the one you follow?
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Old 04-16-2013, 06:42 AM   #19
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Sure.

(reference_weight/2.2)*1.5 to (reference_weight/2.2)*2.0

Reference weight is the right weight for your height. So you shouldn't use intermediate goal weight for the formula. If you weigh 300 pounds, haven an ideal weight of 200 but a short term goal of 250 you'd use 200. Elsewise you'd be overeating protein.

(120/2.2)*1.5 = 81
(120/2.2)*2.0 = 109

Eat between that range initially. If you need to, after everything else is right, you can tweak your protein down slowly. Count total carbs and start under 50g. Don't starve yourself.

From page 207 of The Art and Science of Low Carb Living:

"As an aside, the casual reader might protest that these energy expenditure numbers look pretty high. But for anyone that has worked with obese humans in a metabolic research ward, 30kcal per kg of actual body weight in the sedentary obese and 35 kcal/kg in the post-obese moderately active adult are actually quite conservative expenditure values."

Phinney/Volek are saying here that a moderately active adult at 120 pounds will burn about 1900 calories a day to maintain 120.
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Old 04-16-2013, 06:54 AM   #20
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Thanks Reddarin!

How much fat should I eat?
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Old 04-16-2013, 07:45 AM   #21
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Thanks Reddarin!

How much fat should I eat?
Fat is the balance of calories after protein requirement is met and whatever total carbs are eaten for the day.

For example, using the 1900 calorie figure:

81g protein = 324 calories
30g carbs (just picking a number) = 120 calories

1900 - 444 = 1456 which is about 160g of fat. Note that the protein grams/calories are going to be very close to the same every day and calories from total carbs won't vary much either. Your fat grams can vary a lot from day to day depending on how you pursue NK. If you set a calorie goal then your fat grams will be mostly consistent. If you eat to satiety your fat grams may be very different from day to day.
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Old 04-16-2013, 08:06 AM   #22
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Fat is the balance of calories after protein requirement is met and whatever total carbs are eaten for the day.

For example, using the 1900 calorie figure:

81g protein = 324 calories
30g carbs (just picking a number) = 120 calories

1900 - 444 = 1456 which is about 160g of fat. Note that the protein grams/calories are going to be very close to the same every day and calories from total carbs won't vary much either. Your fat grams can vary a lot from day to day depending on how you pursue NK. If you set a calorie goal then your fat grams will be mostly consistent. If you eat to satiety your fat grams may be very different from day to day.
Got it. Thank you so much
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Old 04-22-2013, 05:56 AM   #23
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I am late to this thread but wanted to extend my welcome to you Marika!!
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Old 04-22-2013, 06:23 AM   #24
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Thanks Cathy. I have actually moved on to slightly higher carbs, so not doing NK at this point, but thanks for the welcome anyway
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