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-   -   Non diabetics testing fasting blood glucose? (http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/nutritional-ketosis-high-fat-low-carb/802103-non-diabetics-testing-fasting-blood-glucose.html)

clackley 04-14-2013 08:09 AM

Non diabetics testing fasting blood glucose?
 
Just wondering if there are any non-diabetics that are testing fasting blood glucose (with a home meter) and finding they have higher #'s than anticipated or even outside what is 'the normal range'?

I am one and have been for better than a yr.(that I know of). I get a lab test done as well a couple of times a year and it is always withing the normal range but of course that blood sample is taken long after I have been up. My A1c is normal too.

Just wondering if there are any others .... ???

Gretalyn 04-14-2013 08:51 AM

A year into my low-carb diet, I was still getting fasting numbers which were considered normal but seemed a bit high to me: 95-105 range. I'm now two years in and I've tested again a couple of times recently and had much better numbers: upper 80's.

I'm not diabetic, but I'm pretty sure I was (am?) insulin resistant (I would see some "pre-diabetic" post-prandial numbers and I'm also very prone to reactive hypoglycemia.) I'm just pointing out that I'm not exactly a vision of perfect metabolic health, so I may not be the best example.

Punkin 04-14-2013 09:04 AM

I am testing mine and I am more likely pre-diabetic because I have a tendency towards hypoglycemia. Mine tend to be a bit on the low side, but still are usually in the normal area, unless I overdo exercise which I try not to. How high are your numbers? And how long does it take you to come back down to normal levels after eating? If you could give a profile of your numbers throughout the day, with respect to meals/exercise I can give you my non-medical opinion.

E.W. 04-14-2013 09:22 AM

If you are doing realy low carb you have more fatty acids in your blood because this
you may develop what is called physiolical insulin resistance. This is not bad like plain
insulin resistance it's your body to hang on to a little glucose for your blood cells and
brain to use. In this case your A1c is a lot better judge of your BG than a fasting gluose
test. Here is a link to this in more detail




.Hyperlipid: Physiological insulin resistance (3); Clarification of FBG

ravenrose 04-14-2013 09:46 AM

clackley, I am an avid follower of BloodSugar101. I am sure you remember Jenny. A tireless reader of studies, interpreting what is important.

Based on her research, I am quite sure the huge emphasis on fasting blood sugar in the morning is not sensible. Post prandial readings, about 2 hours after the start of a big meal, and A1c are better measures of your insulin metabolism.

But high readings any time are an indication you might be insulin resistant. Your A1c and post prandial readings will naturally be much lower than "natural" because of your low carbing.

I suggest you request a prescription for Metformin. Studies have shown that the SOONER it is started the better, and the longer it will be the only thing one needs to take. It can help with weight loss even if you are not "diabetic."

The truth is, if your fasting numbers are high, you might very well test as diabetic if you "ate normally." If your insulin metabolism is weak, Metformin can help, even if not completely essential.

Best of luck, friend! *hug*

clackley 04-14-2013 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gretalyn (Post 16372184)
A year into my low-carb diet, I was still getting fasting numbers which were considered normal but seemed a bit high to me: 95-105 range. I'm now two years in and I've tested again a couple of times recently and had much better numbers: upper 80's.

I'm not diabetic, but I'm pretty sure I was (am?) insulin resistant (I would see some "pre-diabetic" post-prandial numbers and I'm also very prone to reactive hypoglycemia.) I'm just pointing out that I'm not exactly a vision of perfect metabolic health, so I may not be the best example.

I am not exactly a 'vision of perfect metabolic health' either!! :laugh:

clackley 04-14-2013 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Punkin (Post 16372203)
I am testing mine and I am more likely pre-diabetic because I have a tendency towards hypoglycemia. Mine tend to be a bit on the low side, but still are usually in the normal area, unless I overdo exercise which I try not to. How high are your numbers? And how long does it take you to come back down to normal levels after eating? If you could give a profile of your numbers throughout the day, with respect to meals/exercise I can give you my non-medical opinion.

Thanks for the offer Punkin but I have been aware of this for some time and have done some research and talked to my doctor etc.... he thinks that my lab #s are great and I am overly concerned.

clackley 04-14-2013 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by E.W. (Post 16372234)
If you are doing realy low carb you have more fatty acids in your blood because this
you may develop what is called physiolical insulin resistance. This is not bad like plain
insulin resistance it's your body to hang on to a little glucose for your blood cells and
brain to use. In this case your A1c is a lot better judge of your BG than a fasting gluose
test. Here is a link to this in more detail




.Hyperlipid: Physiological insulin resistance (3); Clarification of FBG

And this is the thing that makes sense to me. I am and have been in ketosis for 3.5 yrs. (at least to my knowledge..... certainly for a long time).

I always think that lab norms and such are all framed around 'normal' people who are not in a constant state of n.k. and therefore may not apply.

What I was hoping to find out is if there are any people who are like me and to compare.

After reading hyperlipid's take and some other similar stuff, I stopped testing last years because I thought there wasn't much change. and truthfully, it does make me slightly uneasy......but I went back to testing when I got my ketone meter and things have not changed .....:dunno:

clackley 04-14-2013 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ravenrose (Post 16372266)
clackley, I am an avid follower of BloodSugar101. I am sure you remember Jenny. A tireless reader of studies, interpreting what is important.

Based on her research, I am quite sure the huge emphasis on fasting blood sugar in the morning is not sensible. Post prandial readings, about 2 hours after the start of a big meal, and A1c are better measures of your insulin metabolism.

But high readings any time are an indication you might be insulin resistant. Your A1c and post prandial readings will naturally be much lower than "natural" because of your low carbing.

I suggest you request a prescription for Metformin. Studies have shown that the SOONER it is started the better, and the longer it will be the only thing one needs to take. It can help with weight loss even if you are not "diabetic."

The truth is, if your fasting numbers are high, you might very well test as diabetic if you "ate normally." If your insulin metabolism is weak, Metformin can help, even if not completely essential.

Best of luck, friend! *hug*

Thanks RR! I can't imagine how I would become diabetic with a n.k. woe. I do think it is something else but who knows for sure. I would have to go back to eating more carbs for a period of time ... gain some weight and then struggle to return to n.k. to see if that is possible and that just doesn't make any sense to me. I will likely keep on with n.k. until the time comes that my a1c goes out of range... if it does.

Punkin 04-14-2013 01:26 PM

How high are your numbers? The book that I am using says that type 2 diabetes can take 6 years to show up on lab tests. This for me is significant information because my dad developed it at the age of 55. He probably had a lot of warning signs a long the way, one of which was weight gain around his middle section. But they say that it can run in families. Just curious as to what type of numbers you are talking about because I can compare it to what it says in my book, if that helps

drjlocarb 04-14-2013 01:42 PM

I have been testing on and off for 2 years. My fbg was 120-130 and my A1c was 5.6. I have been doing NK and now my fbg is 95- 105.

I did experiment with higher carb post meal readings and never got much over 120 even with the higher carb meals and during that time my fbg was 85-90.

Makes no sense to me either.

Perfectdeb 04-14-2013 04:15 PM

We have different numbers here but I test at 5.5 on FBG but with a meter I test at around 3.0 during the day - I agree that early morning tests are unreliable

clackley 04-14-2013 04:55 PM

I can be anywhere between 4.3 to 6.2 which translates to 77.4 to 111.6. The lower #s are when I was on berberine (glycosolve but after months on it, #'s began to climb to about 5.4 or 97.2.

It seems conceivable that one could be developing type 2 diabetes and take years to show up on a fasting blood glucose reading or other symptoms but I find it unfathomable how a consistent low carb woe would allow progression or deterioration. Of course, I could be wrong but from my research, this seems to follow.

Quote:

Perfectdeb: We have different numbers here but I test at 5.5 on FBG but with a meter I test at around 3.0 during the day - I agree that early morning tests are unreliable
While 5.5 seems within the normal range, 3.0 seems rather low. It translates into about 55. Did you mean 4.3???

Perfectdeb 04-14-2013 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clackley (Post 16372930)
I can be anywhere between 4.3 to 6.2 which translates to 77.4 to 111.6. The lower #s are when I was on berberine (glycosolve but after months on it, #'s began to climb to about 5.4 or 97.2.

It seems conceivable that one could be developing type 2 diabetes and take years to show up on a fasting blood glucose reading or other symptoms but I find it unfathomable how a consistent low carb woe would allow progression or deterioration. Of course, I could be wrong but from my research, this seems to follow.



While 5.5 seems within the normal range, 3.0 seems rather low. It translates into about 55. Did you mean 4.3???

Nope, even before low carb I'd regularly test at around 3 two hours after a meal - its one of the reasons I love ketosis, I think my body might be just a little too insulin sensitive

I used to get so frustrated because I had constant low blood sugar and I wanted to snack all the time but I was overweight

Liz1959 04-14-2013 07:38 PM

I test glucose when I test Ketones. I'm usually 89-99. I have had a few 110 days, but if I test again immediately it drops into the 90's so I stopped worrying about it. I am more concerned with after meal readings. Those sometimes go to 127, then back to the 90's, 80's.
After looking over old lab results(pre low carb) my fasting levels really haven't changed. One was 106 and that concerned me ... but did I really fast? I don't know. My doc wasn't concerned and I wasn't paying attention at the time.
I have to think my body knows what it is doing. I check kind of randomly or when I'm feeling wierd.

Gretalyn 04-15-2013 08:06 AM

Perfectdeb - that sounds like reactive hypoglycemia. Jimmy Moore interviewed Dr. Keith Berkowitz about the topic of hypoglycemia on episode 665 of the Living La Vida Low Carb Show, on March 19 of this year. Lots of good info in that podcast!

Perfectdeb 04-15-2013 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gretalyn (Post 16373816)
Perfectdeb - that sounds like reactive hypoglycemia. Jimmy Moore interviewed Dr. Keith Berkowitz about the topic of hypoglycemia on episode 665 of the Living La Vida Low Carb Show, on March 19 of this year. Lots of good info in that podcast!

Cool. I'll go look

It doesn't bother me at all on low carb, ketones seem to take up the slack and I feel so much better, I also go into ketosis really easily - perhaps this is the way I'm meant to be

It was worse when I was in my 20's, I also regularly suffered from anemia so I had a reputation for fainting at the drop of a hat. After the birth of my first child the anemia vanished, but the low blood sugar was always the norm

Gretalyn 04-15-2013 08:36 AM

I became hypoglycemic in my late teens or early 20's too, but mine continued to get worse and worse over time, until I discovered low-carb! As long as I eat consistently low-carb, and I NEVER skip a meal, then I'm able to avoid any hypoglycemic "episodes". But there are some additional tips in that podcast, in case you're interested.

That's really interesting that your pregnancy/birth cured your anemia! I have some friends for whom it was the opposite. For me, when I got pregnant with my daughter, it felt like the healthiest time of my life. I'd had migraines two or three times per week since puberty, and when I got pregnant they STOPPED. It was heavenly! They started again after she stopped nursing, but never as bad as before.

Perfectdeb 04-15-2013 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gretalyn (Post 16373911)
I became hypoglycemic in my late teens or early 20's too, but mine continued to get worse and worse over time, until I discovered low-carb! As long as I eat consistently low-carb, and I NEVER skip a meal, then I'm able to avoid any hypoglycemic "episodes". But there are some additional tips in that podcast, in case you're interested.

That's really interesting that your pregnancy/birth cured your anemia! I have some friends for whom it was the opposite. For me, when I got pregnant with my daughter, it felt like the healthiest time of my life. I'd had migraines two or three times per week since puberty, and when I got pregnant they STOPPED. It was heavenly! They started again after she stopped nursing, but never as bad as before.

I think it's to do with the hormone shift, my curly light reddish hair went dark and straight to :dunno:

Gretalyn 04-15-2013 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perfectdeb (Post 16373920)
I think it's to do with the hormone shift, my curly light reddish hair went dark and straight to :dunno:

Wow! :D

Perfectdeb 04-15-2013 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gretalyn (Post 16373940)
Wow! :D

Yeah it was pretty weird at the time, it looked like a perm and a dye job growing out

Gretalyn 04-15-2013 08:57 AM

The change was that sudden? That's pretty wild. My Mom's hair got curly when she went through menopause, but it was kind of a gradual thing.

Perfectdeb 04-15-2013 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gretalyn (Post 16373970)
The change was that sudden? That's pretty wild. My Mom's hair got curly when she went through menopause, but it was kind of a gradual thing.

I think once you give birth certain hormones just shut off. I know you have more blood when you're pregnant that's why you have nice nails and hair, after birth I lost fistfuls of hair too.

Gee, I wonder why I only did it twice? And the second one was an accident :stars:

Gretalyn 04-15-2013 09:40 AM

I had such a wonderful pregnancy, felt so healthy and so happy. I had a rough time for a couple of years afterward, though, because I had undiagnosed (and therefore untreated) postpartum hypothyroidism. I wish I had known because it ruined my chances of having another child - it was a really difficult time, so hubby said "never again". :cry:

piratejenny 04-15-2013 12:45 PM

If you're testing your BG in the morning, also testing it before bed (as long as you haven't eaten for 2-3 hours) may give you more useful information than FBG alone.

If your BG at both times is about the same, it may not matter much if it's a little high. This can be an indication that your body does a good job of keeping your BG steady.

If you go to bed with "good" BG and wake up with it significantly higher (I'm not sure what Science considers significant, but for myself I go with 30-40 points; eg 90 before bed and 120-130 upon waking), it may mean that your liver is "dumping" glucose while you're asleep.

The liver is supposed to "feed" you with small amounts of glucose when you're fasting, but in some people (including diabetics), the liver dumps too much and/or other factors that regulate blood sugar are not functioning optimally.

Looking into "dawn phenomenon", "liver dump" and "glucose-6-phosphatase" may be interesting/helpful (the latter is an enzyme; some people make too much of it, others not enough).

If a person is deeply in ketosis, I wonder if their liver wouldn't have stores of glucose to dump? Or if some people's livers manage to keep blood sugar high by using protein, or turning stored body fat into glucose? I always seem to have highish FBG (125) no matter what I do. :(

Punkin 04-16-2013 04:28 PM

Sorry it took me so long to reply but I was really ill with the flu for a couple of days. The book that I have says that that range is actually really good. I don't think I would be that concerned. I myself should have been testing my BG when I was on a higher carb diet, because I think my blood sugar was fluctuating wildly and I didn't know it. Unless you plan on going back to a higher carb diet, it seems fine. Do you test your blood ketones? Because it is important to know if you also have enough circulating ketones to feed your brain when your blood sugar is on the low side. Mine start out low in the morning before breakfast and climb much higher during the day. Most likely because my ketones are coming from dietary fat, which isn't exactly the goal but at least I know I am feeding my brain properly.

raindroproses 04-17-2013 07:59 AM

Huh... I just tested my fasting blood glucose for the first time this morning since getting my meters and it was 46. Is that alright? :confused: According to one thing I saw on the internet, that indicates hypoglycemia... but I wonder if that's really true, or if those of us on LC no sugar diets just HAVE lower fasting blood glucose levels or what. I don't FEEL really bad or anything like that, just hungry since I haven't had breakfast yet :laugh:

Punkin 04-17-2013 08:04 AM

That is a low, but maybe you are just producing a lot of ketones, and that is what your brain is functioning on. You are under 10g of carbs? Is this correct? I am closer to 30g so my blood sugar is in the bottom of the normal range. It only drops that low when I engage in intense exercise. I would track your blood sugar for a few days to get a sense of what your BG profile looks like.

raindroproses 04-17-2013 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Punkin (Post 16378389)
That is a low, but maybe you are just producing a lot of ketones, and that is what your brain is functioning on. You are under 10g of carbs? Is this correct? I am closer to 30g so my blood sugar is in the bottom of the normal range. It only drops that low when I engage in intense exercise. I would track your blood sugar for a few days to get a sense of what your BG profile looks like.

I'm usually somewhere between 10-20 total carbs per day, never over 20 and sometimes under 10... yesterday I actually had 15 carbs so it wasn't an abnormally low day. Very strange!

My doctor gave me a fasting blood test that included glucose a few months ago, and he said my numbers looked normal... and I don't feel any differently now than I did then. I have had hypoglycemic reactions in the past a couple times, and I felt HORRID until I leveled it back out. This was before I really got settled into LC though, and some of my experiences were from my carb binging days.

I did exercise yesterday, but it wasn't intense by any means... a 20-25 minute walk and some cleaning. More than I usually have been doing, but nothing my body couldn't handle :laugh:

Really all I feel right now is hungry (I'm going to eat in a second) and a little groggy from just having woken up/my thyroid as usual/not having anything to eat... no shakiness, no panic feeling like I have sometimes when my blood sugar drops too low, nothing out of the ordinary really. Hmmmm.

Is it possible your blood glucose lowers because you're producing more ketones? Or that your body can get away with you being hypoglycemic without producing symptoms if there are enough ketones present? I'm really stumped! But I have 9 more lancets/test strips so I'm willing to check again tomorrow too :)

raindroproses 04-17-2013 08:33 AM

Hmmm... okay, well looking over the symptoms again I should probably mention I DID have a stubborn headache out of nowhere yesterday night that didn't go away until I slept. But I think that might have been from the barometric pressure increasing so much over here, because I can be sensitive to that. It's gone this morning though. I found it to be quite odd because I've only had maybe two other headaches since starting NK/LC in January... before, I had them 3-4 times a week!

I've also felt semi-lightheaded on occasion when getting up from sitting/laying down the past couple days, but not this morning before I tested... so that's odd too.

It could be my thyroid/adrenal glands which are currently not being treated properly that's causing my blood glucose to be metabolized weirdly... just another thing to mention to my new doctor I guess, if the tests I run continue to be so low!


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