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Old 04-29-2013, 09:59 AM   #2161
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Originally Posted by reddarin View Post
From what you said it sounded like you were eating very little because you were sick. Is that not right?

Sick and very low calories is going to result in some dramatic weight loss usually I think. Unlike just eating very low calorie all by itself, when you are sick your body doesn't have a choice about using as much energy as it can to fight the sickness.

Terrible way to get there but that is a great scale reading lol

No thats true, i wasnt eating a lot due to being sick, just soup with rice or soup with vegetables, not much at all. Then when i got to california not to go into much detail but i was in the bathroom 5 times in 24 hours (and not sick anymore) - WTH.

ya, we'll see if it keeps up. Im confused more than happy.
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Old 04-29-2013, 10:00 AM   #2162
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Weigh-in this morning... 192.8 wow. New low too. I'm pretty sure that I woke up very dehydrated because I had a serious cramp in my leg when I got up. But I finally broke into the 192s
Wow! Right on dude. I remember recently when you were 200ish and wanted to break that - now you're WAY beyond it.

good game!
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Old 04-29-2013, 10:02 AM   #2163
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There's also this recipe, which I'm thinking of making with some canned chicken I have in the pantry.

Green Enchilada Chicken Casserole
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Old 04-29-2013, 10:02 AM   #2164
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I think it's this one. Green Enchilada Chicken

OMG that looks and sounds so good. Our "seasoning for tacos" here is really carby tho. I havent seen a lower carb version. It's the old el paso one. I will do this but change to chicken thigh. nom nom
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Old 04-29-2013, 10:06 AM   #2165
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OMG that looks and sounds so good. Our "seasoning for tacos" here is really carby tho. I havent seen a lower carb version. It's the old el paso one. I will do this but change to chicken thigh. nom nom
You can make your own seasoning...just google taco seasoning recipe.
I am going to try this recipe too! It looks tasty!
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Old 04-29-2013, 10:19 AM   #2166
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I don't know how long it takes to metabolize CO, but my understanding is that medium chain triglycerides skip getting packaged into lipoprotein vesicles and just get dumped into the hepatic portal vein -- straight to the liver. So, pretty fast, I think. Okay, I am presuming that the fatty acids get torn off the glycerol backbone during absorption from the gut. At least I understand that happens to all trigs.

So, I take it, these medium chain length fatty acids just spew out of the liver (bound to albumin?) into the the blood stream and get picked up by cells. Then, since they are below a certain chain length they can be transported straight into mitochondria for oxidation?
From what I read they are converted to ketone bodies in the liver and that will skip the glycolysis process and go straight to the mitochondria. But what is the time delay from consumption to formation of ketone bodies?

Is the thermogenic nature of CO indicative of it's conversion to ketone bodies? If so that would indicate a 20 minute(?) delay. At least for me.

Quote:
What I am shooting for is to get the free fatty acid concentration of my blood high enough that my greedy muscle cells will not deplete my blood of ketone bodies leaving enough for my brain not to go into that dim-witted state I experience during heavy lifting bouts. (Well, heavy for me.)
That is very interesting. You just started this CO regimen this week? I'm curious to hear how your experiment turns out.

Quote:
Someone recommended 10 tablespoons of CO
5 oz of CO is ambitious. I eat about 2 to 2.5 oz every morning in my coffee. A few months ago I was ending the day with 1 oz of CO for a total of about 3 to 3.5 oz a day. But I do not work out and I wasn't doing anything physical back then either. Well, actually, for a few weeks now I have been doing some curls with a dumbbell to address my pathetic looking arms. But I wouldn't call it working out because it is at most 5 minutes a day and usually not more than every two to three days. I found McGuff's seven day recovery to be very intriguing and I could see myself doing a 15 minute high intensity workout once a week. I haven't read his book so I am only superficially acquainted with it, but his 12 to 15 minute a week plan is the first time I've seen any sort of workout routine that I think I could stick with.

Quote:
Anyway, I am mainly surprised at how well my gut tolerates all that CO.
If you are taking it regularly you should be able to eat an unlimited amount without discomfort from the anti-everything nature of it. The other stuff that kicks off from eating a high concentration of MCTs can't be avoided though. I assume that a bunch at one time will throw the liver and subsidiary metabolic processes into disarray.


Quote:
I don't recall my morning readings ever being that high. But, similar to what Jimmy Moore saw, my BK levels go higher later in the day. I generally don't go above 2 or 3mM during the weekdays. But on the weekends I eat a higher fat breakfast and no lunch. This often sends me above 4 mM by late afternoon when I lift.
--
Phillip
Hmmm. Very interesting! Does it imply that an IF plan with the non-eating window kicking off late afternoon would be superior for weight loss?

I do not test BK and never have. When I got down to 186, though, I was typically done eating by about 3:30pm and wouldn't eat again for at least 15 hours (coffee/CO/HWC).
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Old 04-29-2013, 10:38 AM   #2167
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Originally Posted by raindroproses View Post
Down another .5 this morning to 151.5 I can't believe I'm only 1.5 pounds away from my first goal... that's just madness

It's a gorgeous day outside today, so despite getting next to no sleep whatsoever last night I think I'll probably head out to the park and try not to get burnt again
Hooray Melanie!!!
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Old 04-29-2013, 10:39 AM   #2168
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Woohoo! I just FINALLY placed my first Netrition order... over $200 so I got the extra 5% off and a free t-shirt which I'm not sure will fit me, but hey it's free! I feel like a bad person for spending so much, but at least a lot of it is just pantry stuff that'll last for many uses. It was my first time, so I had to try a bunch out. Maybe next time I'll be able to control myself... although over $75 will be cool for another free gift. I didn't know what to choose, I wanted it all

Wound up with the baseball shirt though, anyone have one? There were no reviews or anything, so I hope they don't run super small!
They should have frenemy T-Shirts:

"My friend bought a big Netrition order and all I got was this lousy shirt"

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Old 04-29-2013, 10:51 AM   #2169
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Donna! Your surgery is still scheduled for today??? I hope everything goes well and you have a speedy recovery.

Did you bring some zombie makeup to take advantage of this opportunity???
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Old 04-29-2013, 10:53 AM   #2170
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Logging Homemade Chicken Broth

Hi Guys, I made a chicken bone broth yesterday and don't know how to log it in to my tracker. Any ideas?
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Old 04-29-2013, 11:02 AM   #2171
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Yes Donna! Hope your surgery is going great and speedy and easy recovery!
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Old 04-29-2013, 11:15 AM   #2172
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Log for yesterday

Calories 818

Fat 66
Pro 49
Carb 11

Breakfast salsa sausage quiche
Snack 2 pieces cocoa
Late night/ cold cut lettuce roll up

Took my Mom to the ER so we were there ALL afternoon and evening.
But I was there 8 hrs and didn't need to eat or snack. That was pretty cool.
They think she has a skeletal muscle injury but cannot rule out gall bladder. Also found a few other things but not things that were causing her pain.
Bummer of a day. Hope she is ok. Hate hospital waiting rooms.
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Old 04-29-2013, 11:18 AM   #2173
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Wt-130
I'm kinda considering calling goal at 130. It's hard to decide. I'm wearing the clothes that I wanted and my body obviously likes being at this wt but that darn125 is stuck in my head and according to those dumb charts 125 is the higher end of my wt range
Oh man, what a quandary to be in. You rock
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Old 04-29-2013, 11:21 AM   #2174
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Originally Posted by Myles View Post
ughh.. something weird is going on ...

thu apr 11 319.4
<then i went to indonesia and china, got sick and ate rice and other bad stuff>
thu apr 25 322.6 (now im home)
sat apt 27 320.1
sun apr 28 316.8
mon apr 29 316.0

whats going on here?!

only thing i can think of is maybe overseas eating that stuff did a refeed of my glycogen or something and since ive been back i havent had any coffee..so going on 5 days now.. i duno.. i never lose really..esp so much, what the what
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Old 04-29-2013, 11:35 AM   #2175
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Weigh-in this morning... 192.8 wow. New low too. I'm pretty sure that I woke up very dehydrated because I had a serious cramp in my leg when I got up. But I finally broke into the 192s
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Old 04-29-2013, 11:49 AM   #2176
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Down a pound to 233.6. Third day for a loss. The only difference is that I've lowered calories to 1400-1500 and I started taking Braggs ACV three days ago. No matter which, I'm taking it.
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Old 04-29-2013, 11:50 AM   #2177
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Originally Posted by Lindy in Louisiana View Post
Down a pound to 233.6. Third day for a loss. The only difference is that I've lowered calories to 1400-1500 and I started taking Braggs ACV three days ago. No matter which, I'm taking it.
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Old 04-29-2013, 11:56 AM   #2178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reddarin View Post
From what I read they are converted to ketone bodies in the liver and that will skip the glycolysis process and go straight to the mitochondria. But what is the time delay from consumption to formation of ketone bodies?

Is the thermogenic nature of CO indicative of it's conversion to ketone bodies? If so that would indicate a 20 minute(?) delay. At least for me.
Your liver doesn't even need to turn them into ketone bodies, it can just spew them out as free fatty acids (FFAs), bound to albumin. Your muscles can burn those fine. But, yes, I think that 20 minutes to theromgenesis quite likely indicates the amount of time it takes your body to start burning CO.

By the way even though ketone bodies in your blood at a certain concentration are the hallmark of this WOE, I am pretty sure they represent only a portion of the energy budget of your body. FFAs get ignored because there isn't a cheap way to measure them.

My take, and I have read some of the primary literature on this, but it is way outside my field, so you will want to use a few extra grams of salt here -- ketone bodies can be used by most of the tissues that will only burn glucose otherwise. Perhaps most importantly, nervous tissues. (DrJLoCarb previously pointed out that there are some cells that cannot burn fat or ketones -- because they don't contain mitochondria at all: red blood cells, cells in the lens of your eyes and the medulla of the kidneys, for example.)

So the story here is supposed to be at first your muscles are happily burning the ketone bodies as you keto-adapt. But eventually they are supposed to stop doing that, apparently to spare ketones for your nervous tissue.

Only it appears that under duress (like while doing power lifts) my muscles unashamedly gobble down the ketones, leaving my brain to fend for itself. Actually not unpleasant, but I tend to sit around staring off into space instead of moving to the next exercise, etc. This workout typically takes people 1 hour to complete. 1.5 hours on the outside. I commonly will blow 2-3 hours doing it. I haven't found anyone else in the StrongLifts site that takes longer, or even as long as I do. Even among the very small number who are on a ketogenic diet.
Quote:
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That is very interesting. You just started this CO regimen this week? I'm curious to hear how your experiment turns out.
I had been eating 1 tablespoon of CO before my workout for quite a while. It seemed to mitigate the dread I felt between sets of particularly hard lifts (which pretty much comprise squats sets near my 5 rep maximum). You had helpfully suggested replacing the power lifting with an afternoon nap, if you recall...
Anyway, I have been increasing the amount I eat by 1 tablespoon each workout. Today I will be at 6 tablespoons. So about 2 weeks ago I started. It does seems to spare my blood ketones, even at this level. So I have some hope. Would be very nice to be able to finish a workout in under an hour.
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Originally Posted by reddarin View Post
5 oz of CO is ambitious. I eat about 2 to 2.5 oz every morning in my coffee. A few months ago I was ending the day with 1 oz of CO for a total of about 3 to 3.5 oz a day. But I do not work out and I wasn't doing anything physical back then either. Well, actually, for a few weeks now I have been doing some curls with a dumbbell to address my pathetic looking arms. But I wouldn't call it working out because it is at most 5 minutes a day and usually not more than every two to three days. I found McGuff's seven day recovery to be very intriguing and I could see myself doing a 15 minute high intensity workout once a week. I haven't read his book so I am only superficially acquainted with it, but his 12 to 15 minute a week plan is the first time I've seen any sort of workout routine that I think I could stick with.
The good news is you can pretty much do anything -- any program anyone comes up with, and if you are untrained, you will see dramatic improvements quickly.
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Originally Posted by reddarin View Post
If you are taking it regularly you should be able to eat an unlimited amount without discomfort from the anti-everything nature of it. The other stuff that kicks off from eating a high concentration of MCTs can't be avoided though. I assume that a bunch at one time will throw the liver and subsidiary metabolic processes into disarray.
I haven't noticed any issues. Not that I necessarily would. But I think my body pretty much burns all the MCTs during the workout.
Quote:
Originally Posted by reddarin View Post
Hmmm. Very interesting! Does it imply that an IF plan with the non-eating window kicking off late afternoon would be superior for weight loss?
I was just catching up with Jimmy Moore's log yesterday, and he points out that he has no idea why his BK levels in the evening are so much higher than in the morning. Well, he came up with the idea that during the night his body was using the ketones to "repair" his body somehow. But he seemed to have pulled that idea out of thin air.
Quote:
Originally Posted by reddarin View Post
I do not test BK and never have. When I got down to 186, though, I was typically done eating by about 3:30pm and wouldn't eat again for at least 15 hours (coffee/CO/HWC).
Yes, Red, I remember. I have noticed a distinct softening in your position towards BK meters in recent months. Almost as if the main thing holding you back is your not wanting to lance your fingers. Well, that and probably blowing a big chunk of change on something you don't actually need. Like you don't want to opt in to paying your "ketosis tax". Only, in this case there is no danger of you going to jail for not paying this tax.

--
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Old 04-29-2013, 12:16 PM   #2179
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Originally Posted by Lindy in Louisiana View Post
Down a pound to 233.6. Third day for a loss. The only difference is that I've lowered calories to 1400-1500 and I started taking Braggs ACV three days ago. No matter which, I'm taking it.
Woohoo! I seem to lose best at 1400 calories too, and that fits in with what Jenny Ruhl mentioned in an interview. Even on LC, most of us have to lower calories to lose weight after age 50. In some ways it's discouraging that it comes down to calories, but one of the big benefits of NK for me is that I don't feel like I am starving.

I've started adding fresh lemon juice to my water, and it's helping to get rid of the bloat. I use ACV sometimes too, but the lemon tastes better.
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Old 04-29-2013, 12:48 PM   #2180
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Thanks for all the well wishes for my mom. She was always very healthy until she had complications with the statin drugs.
The pain meds helped last night. She is taking Tylenol now. They gave her stronger meds but she doesn't want to take them.
Awww I hope your mom gets better soon! Those statins are scary things Glad to hear she's at least doing a little bit better though. I'll be sending good vibes both of your ways
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Old 04-29-2013, 12:49 PM   #2181
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Originally Posted by NKSL55 View Post
Only it appears that under duress (like while doing power lifts) my muscles unashamedly gobble down the ketones, leaving my brain to fend for itself
--
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lol
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Old 04-29-2013, 12:50 PM   #2182
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They should have frenemy T-Shirts:

"My friend bought a big Netrition order and all I got was this lousy shirt"

I know just the person I'd give it to too!
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Old 04-29-2013, 12:52 PM   #2183
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Originally Posted by Lindy in Louisiana View Post
Down a pound to 233.6. Third day for a loss. The only difference is that I've lowered calories to 1400-1500 and I started taking Braggs ACV three days ago. No matter which, I'm taking it.
Hooray Lindy!!!
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Old 04-29-2013, 01:49 PM   #2184
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I'm struggling a little with hunger today. I ate 3 scrambled eggs with Mexican shredded cheese and coffee with coconut oil & hwc for breakfast. Lunch was a taco salad with 4 oz lean ground beef, romaine lettuce, a whole avocado, more shredded cheese, salsa, and a tablespoon of sour cream. It was good but I could have easily eaten twice as much.

I've been drinking plenty of water but that never fills me up. Maybe I'll make a mug of bulletproof tea, warm liquid seems to work better than cold for satiation. I'm staying away from the almonds today!
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Old 04-29-2013, 01:51 PM   #2185
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Hey Darin,

I saw you post something (i think) about limiting liquids on this WOE.. any resources or links i can have to get more info?
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Old 04-29-2013, 01:54 PM   #2186
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Thanks, guys. You're right, I'll just have to put the idea of weight loss out of my mind for now and focus on health. I'm just so eager to be done with losing weight! I realized the other day that my baby is now a toddler and I'm still 8-10 pounds over my pre-pregnancy weight.


Quote:
Also, it may not be the meds as much as just the rest of the stress from the injury. Along those lines any physical therapy that reduces the stress from the injury might help too. Maybe yoga or a chiropractor or something?
The stress is a big part of it, no doubt. I'm seeing a chiropractor and an acupuncturist as well as my regular doctor.
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Old 04-29-2013, 01:56 PM   #2187
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I'm just wondering how much the 10 in 10 video is going to kick my butt the first time I try it!
As Callan says repeatedly in that video... don't do more than you can. When she says "do 100" -- what's what you're working up to, not where she expects you to start. Some of the exercises were initially so difficult that all I could do was get into the starting position! But after a few weeks I was doing them all with ease and I'm about the least-flexible person I know.

Quote:
reminded me of my dad whenever I tell him he should be doing something. It's always one excuse after another until he runs out of explanations for why he "can't" do something, and then he finally settles with "I'm lazy" as his final one
LOL! Oh, he sounds like quite the challenge.
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Old 04-29-2013, 01:58 PM   #2188
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Hey Darin,

I saw you post something (i think) about limiting liquids on this WOE.. any resources or links i can have to get more info?
No, not with NK for sure. But I did bring up how to poop like a rockstar and one of the things Dr. Noel said was that drinking too much liquid when you eat can be a problem with regularity.

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Eating out seems to do that even if the meal is mostly innocent as far as NK is concerned.

According to Dr. Noel (she wasn't talking about this situation but it applies I think), where you eat, the environment, is important for digestion and drinking too much liquid will have an impact too. Most restaurants are not cozy places to eat and I bet most people drink more liquid (soft drinks or tea) while at a restaurant too. You get drinks as soon as you sit down, you drink more because you are having a conversation, and you drink while you wait on your food.
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Here is a very interesting podcast I just listened to: Google "fat burning man Dr. Lauren Noel: Food as Medicine, Why Doctors Smoke, and How to Have a Rockstar Poop".

Right at 15 minutes Abel asks Dr. Noel about having a rockstar poop. She talks about probiotics, prebiotics, eating environment, et. al. She also mentions drinking too much while eating because it dilutes your stomach acid. That is very interesting all by itself but it is also really interesting because limiting fluids is part of the Leptin Reset that Deb34 posted a few days ago.

Right at 25 minutes Dr. Noel talks about thyroid. She says that gut flora can be a big player in thyroid health. And she says that gut flora can take a long time to recover from antibiotics. She also describes TSH, T4 and T3 and making sure the doc is actually testing for T3 instead of diagnosis by inferring from the other two numbers.

Lots of other good stuff on the podcast too.
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Old 04-29-2013, 03:01 PM   #2189
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I pulled this off the Perfect Health Diel on other forums. Sungoddess says:

I am trying to eat as nutrient dense a diet as possible. Yesterday I force fed myself some sardines!! I got the Wild Planet wild sardines in extra virgin olive oil. I heard other people love these, but then other people love liver too.
Any suggestions on how to eat these the least painful way?
Ounce for ounce they have more calcium and phosphorus than milk, more iron than spinach, more potassium than coconut water and bananas and as much protein as steak. It's a good source of EPA, DHA, Omega 3 and B12, Vit D, and selenium! Also CoQ10. How can I NOT eat these. They are really



Now, I have eaten them before. Only when i don't have anything quick or smoked oysters available. But I think maybe I'm missing a bet with the nutritution. I bet with salsa or something they would be decent.
Thanks Beverly (Sungoddess)
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Old 04-29-2013, 03:59 PM   #2190
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There's also this recipe, which I'm thinking of making with some canned chicken I have in the pantry.

Green Enchilada Chicken Casserole
All this talk of enchiladas and I had to make this tonight. I made it with half sour cream and half cream cheese. Soooo good
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