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Old 04-05-2013, 09:44 AM   #301
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HUH??? not good that you are hurting....but really? what causes this?!?
It is no big thing. Just a tired achy kinda feeling right in the ribs where my bra is. I asked if anyone else ever got that a few weeks ago. Mizzcase said she did sometimes. My daughter says she gets it too.
I have always had it when I was losing weight, no matter what plan I use. But I am always happy to feel it cause I know it happens when I am losing weight.
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Old 04-05-2013, 09:44 AM   #302
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The confusion may come from Phinney & Volek noting that studies have shown when obese people exercise regularly, their resting metabolism slows by up to 15%. See chapter 18 of The Art and Science of Low Carb Living, section 7. They also expressed concern that very heavy people may do damage to knees, back, and hips with too much exercise. Their recommendation is to lose weight through carb restriction first and then decide when to become active. Again, this is only for people who are quite heavy and have not been active before starting a very low carb diet.
Great catch Lisa!

So the correct answer is, yes, they endorse moderate exercise for fitness but not for an obese person until they have lost enough weight to make it physically safe and personally desirable.

The Art & Science of Low Carb Living, Page 242:

"Here are some basic (but often ignored) facts. Fitness is primarily an inherited trait. Training can increase aerobic power at most by 10-20%, but (figuratively speaking) a different choice of parent would increase or decrease your fitness by as much as 50%[129]. It takes about 350 miles of running or 1000 miles of cycling to burn off 10 pounds of body fat (assuming that your appetite doesn't increase or your metabolism slows down). Unfortunately, when heavy people exercise regularly, their resting metabolism slows - this is not a typo! - it SLOWS by 5 to 15% on average. Based on the results of 4 tightly controlled, in patient human studies, instead of losing 10 pounds, the average person loses 7 pounds with this much exercise, and some people lose as little as 2 or 3[130-133]. These studies specifically demonstrated that this less-than-expected weight loss was attributable to the observed reduction in resting metabolic rate.

Exercise done by heavy people causes a lot of collateral damage. Think ankles, knees, hips, and low backs. So here's a radical idea (which of course is totally out of place in this book): let heavy people try carbohydrate restriction first, lose some weight (which most do without resorting to exercise), and then let them decide when to become more active once they are empowered, energized, and lighter of foot.

Making heavy people exercise is punitive. Enabling heavy people to lose weight and then become more fit is smart."
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Old 04-05-2013, 09:59 AM   #303
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Great catch Lisa!

So the correct answer is, yes, they endorse moderate exercise for fitness but not for an obese person until they have lost enough weight to make it physically safe and personally desirable.

The Art & Science of Low Carb Living, Page 242:

"Here are some basic (but often ignored) facts. Fitness is primarily an inherited trait. Training can increase aerobic power at most by 10-20%, but (figuratively speaking) a different choice of parent would increase or decrease your fitness by as much as 50%[129]. It takes about 350 miles of running or 1000 miles of cycling to burn off 10 pounds of body fat (assuming that your appetite doesn't increase or your metabolism slows down). Unfortunately, when heavy people exercise regularly, their resting metabolism slows - this is not a typo! - it SLOWS by 5 to 15% on average. Based on the results of 4 tightly controlled, in patient human studies, instead of losing 10 pounds, the average person loses 7 pounds with this much exercise, and some people lose as little as 2 or 3[130-133]. These studies specifically demonstrated that this less-than-expected weight loss was attributable to the observed reduction in resting metabolic rate.

Exercise done by heavy people causes a lot of collateral damage. Think ankles, knees, hips, and low backs. So here's a radical idea (which of course is totally out of place in this book): let heavy people try carbohydrate restriction first, lose some weight (which most do without resorting to exercise), and then let them decide when to become more active once they are empowered, energized, and lighter of foot.

Making heavy people exercise is punitive. Enabling heavy people to lose weight and then become more fit is smart."
Red, Do you think exercise lowers the metabolism of moderately overweight people too?
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Old 04-05-2013, 10:42 AM   #304
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Yep, I recognized the IF nature of how I typically eat a long time ago but the IF waters are murky. From what I've seen the most common application of the IF title is for a compressed window of eating rather than being defined by the window of not eating. 4 and 6 hour eating windows are usually what I see. Occasionally I see someone mention an 8 hour window. All purely anecdotal observations on my part of course. I always kinda figured that my 800ish calorie coffee concoction pushed me out of any sort of defined IF plan.

I don't see why some form of IF wouldn't work with NK. A lot of people fall into that sort of eating pattern because of the appetite suppression with NK.

Come to think of it, my Leptin Reset is very similar I think to what you are already doing only the bulk of my protein is beginning to be consumed within 30 minutes of waking. Calories end at around 6 pm or before. So again, at least a 12 hour window of not eating...mildly IF.
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Old 04-05-2013, 11:13 AM   #305
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Red, Do you think exercise lowers the metabolism of moderately overweight people too?
Too much exercise will lower your resting metabolism. Muscle building exercise is the only kind that actually has the potential to increase resting metabolism. But too much of that is contrary too.

As far as I know, your metabolism doesn't speed up because you shed some fat if you have not added muscle mass.

Why then do people feel more energetic when they lose weight? That is an interesting question.
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Old 04-05-2013, 11:25 AM   #306
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That is something I've been wrestling with mentally. The problem I see is that NK is eating by design and everyone's design is distinct where protein is concerned. Calories too.

But maybe I am over thinking that part?

If we listed Cheryl's soup with nutrition based on 10oz of ground beef it wouldn't be written in stone would it? I mean, each and every menu item could be tweaked to fit the person making it.

Ah. The menu plan wouldn't be worth much without the nutritional information at hand. Or at least it would be much harder to use it trying to guess at how much protein/fat/carbs is being represented by a day's menu.

All right you talked me into it

you're a funny guy, that's why this thread is so entertaining and informative. It's may favourite thread on the boards.
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Old 04-05-2013, 11:26 AM   #307
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Dottie you are on a roll with good tips! That coffee can lid thing with the stick blender was super duper too
do tell! I missed that one
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Old 04-05-2013, 11:36 AM   #308
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Deb34, How is your leptin reset going?
I'm several days in and it's going well. A few times I've forgotten to eat within 30 min of waking but I'm doing ok with getting in 50 gm protein + fat at my breakfast by doing Casein shakes. I'm not having the shakes/tremors that I got with whey shakes last year when I tried the reset so I think this will be easier. I've also gotten a pretty good handle on my ovarian/adrenal/thyroid issues with my supplements things are slowly coming back to near normal. TMI alert for the men!!! (I think I might have ovulated for the first time in 20 years or so recently--hoo-ray!

I don't get hungry much in the evening so I have to make sure I get my protein in at breakfast and lunch just in case I only feel like having a HWC float or some cheese for dinner.

I'm having weird dreams which is something i experienced also the 1st round of reset last year, I hope it settles down soon.

No weight lost or gained yet but I feel like I'm shrinking and my clothes are definitely looser and my liver roll on my belly is definitely shrinking...

all in all, I'm feeling pretty positive about the LR this time around.
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Old 04-05-2013, 11:39 AM   #309
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So I'd like to hang out with you all. I'll try and keep my story short.
I did NK last year for a short time, on its own and combined with JUDDD. Jumped around trying everything. Even vegan for a minute. Bounced around a 10 lb range. What I have found for me is that I can maintain well on any of the plans I tried. I believe you can get some of the same health benefits from some different plans too. I Struggle with cravings and binging on all except NK.
I started back on NK at the beginning of the week. I'm down 5lbs. I'm only 8 away from my goal.
Did any of you feel hungry when you first started? I've felt hungry on a couple of the days and barely any hunger on the other days. Usually if I really feel like I need something I'll eat a tbsp of butter is that weird? Do you have any other suggestions?
TY
Nope not weird, butter snacking is one of the smarter and beautiful things in life. Keep it up, and welcome to the thread!
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Old 04-05-2013, 11:43 AM   #310
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I did this last night with some salad greens, a little avocado, parm cheese and bacon grease.
this reminds me of a spinach salad I used to make with egg; shredded cheese; chopped onion, bacon bits; all tossed in a warm bacon grease/mayo vinagrette dressing. Absolutely wonderful! I should make it again, with more bacon and HB egg yolks tossed in....
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Old 04-05-2013, 11:48 AM   #311
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We like cauliflower but every time I cook it my kids tell me it smells like butt. That's their favorite saying.
if you steam it with some milk in the steaming water, the smell is hugely reduced. don't know why or how it works but it really does seem to kill that sulphorous odor.
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Old 04-05-2013, 11:53 AM   #312
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Too much exercise will lower your resting metabolism. Muscle building exercise is the only kind that actually has the potential to increase resting metabolism. But too much of that is contrary too.

As far as I know, your metabolism doesn't speed up because you shed some fat if you have not added muscle mass.

Why then do people feel more energetic when they lose weight? That is an interesting question.
maybe because they're not so tired from carrying around an extra 10, 20, 50, 100 lbs on their frame.

Give anybody a backpac filled with 50 pounds of bricks and ask them to carry it around and sleep with it on for 24 hours and they'll be exhausted. that's a lot of physical exertion right there, w/o adding extra excercise to it.


sorry for the threadjack, I'm not giving anybody else a chance to get a word in edgewise.

Last edited by Deb34; 04-05-2013 at 11:54 AM..
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Old 04-05-2013, 01:13 PM   #313
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maybe because they're not so tired from carrying around an extra 10, 20, 50, 100 lbs on their frame.

Give anybody a backpac filled with 50 pounds of bricks and ask them to carry it around and sleep with it on for 24 hours and they'll be exhausted. that's a lot of physical exertion right there, w/o adding extra excercise to it.


sorry for the threadjack, I'm not giving anybody else a chance to get a word in edgewise.
heh I rapid fire post all the time

That is what I was thinking too. Losing a noticeable amount of weight has got to put a spring in your step.

I wonder if part of it is a relative, not absolute, increase in metabolism? Your fat to muscle ratio shifts and your metabolism is comparatively revved up even if your caloric expenditure remains approximately level or even decreases a tiny amount.
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Old 04-05-2013, 01:17 PM   #314
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do tell! I missed that one
Lessee. You take one of those paper fans with the wood handle and separate the wood from the fan part. Then you use a hot glue gun to attach it to one of those big plastic coffee can lids, the old kind that has a thin lip. Then when using your stick blender you hold the lid up by the handle covering your face for when the blender throws your drink all over the kitchen.

Wait. No, that isn't it. You cut a slit in the middle of a small coffee can lid and then push the stick blender stick part through it and you cover the cup with it while you blend your concoction. But my idea has more flair than Dottie's tip.
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Old 04-05-2013, 01:26 PM   #315
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Lessee. You take one of those paper fans with the wood handle and separate the wood from the fan part. Then you use a hot glue gun to attach it to one of those big plastic coffee can lids, the old kind that has a thin lip. Then when using your stick blender you hold the lid up by the handle covering your face for when the blender throws your drink all over the kitchen.Wait. No, that isn't it. You cut a slit in the middle of a small coffee can lid and then push the stick blender stick part through it and you cover the cup with it while you blend your concoction. But my idea has more flair than Dottie's tip.
The visual i was getting was priceless, I'd like to see a ***tube video of somebody trying it.
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Old 04-05-2013, 02:09 PM   #316
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Yahoo my side started aching!!!

That means I am burning fat. so weird but I have been waiting on it to start hurting for a week and a half.
Maybe it's your liver shedding fat?
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Old 04-05-2013, 02:13 PM   #317
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I'm on a high, I went clothes shopping yesterday because my favourite pair of jeans were falling off with the buttons done up, I'd gone from an 18 to a 14, then I went out for dinner with a friend I haven't seen since July last year and she didn't recognise me when I walked into the room
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Old 04-05-2013, 02:20 PM   #318
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I'm on a high, I went clothes shopping yesterday because my favourite pair of jeans were falling off with the buttons done up, I'd gone from an 18 to a 14, then I went out for dinner with a friend I haven't seen since July last year and she didn't recognise me when I walked into the room
Hooray!!! That's awesome!!!

You should have been like, 'Deb's not here yet?' lol.
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Old 04-05-2013, 02:26 PM   #319
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Hooray!!! That's awesome!!!

You should have been like, 'Deb's not here yet?' lol.
It was a bit sad actually, the third friend at dinner is booked in for a gastric bypass next week, I sat there ad watched her pack away a huge bowl of risotto accompanied by garlic bread followed by banana pudding as she criticised me for requesting extra garlic butter on my green beans
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Old 04-05-2013, 02:33 PM   #320
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It was a bit sad actually, the third friend at dinner is booked in for a gastric bypass next week, I sat there ad watched her pack away a huge bowl of risotto accompanied by garlic bread followed by banana pudding as she criticised me for requesting extra garlic butter on my green beans
It is sad and frustrating to not be able to help others. It's natural to WANT to, but if they aren't open-minded nothing we say is going to help.



Congrats on your new skinny jeans!
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Old 04-05-2013, 03:06 PM   #321
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Maybe it's your liver shedding fat?
Hey maybe. Good idea
It stopped hurting. It usually hurts all afternoon before a loss.
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I'm on a high, I went clothes shopping yesterday because my favourite pair of jeans were falling off with the buttons done up, I'd gone from an 18 to a 14, then I went out for dinner with a friend I haven't seen since July last year and she didn't recognise me when I walked into the room

That is a great feeling

Last edited by Clueless; 04-05-2013 at 03:20 PM..
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Old 04-05-2013, 03:08 PM   #322
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It is sad and frustrating to not be able to help others. It's natural to WANT to, but if they aren't open-minded nothing we say is going to help.



Congrats on your new skinny jeans!
So true. I don't even bother offering up any info because people don't wanna hear it. If they ask and seem interested I will talk but haven't run into that person yet.
Most already have their minds made up about low carb.
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Old 04-05-2013, 03:12 PM   #323
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Log for today

Calories 1309

Fat 99 70%
pro 77 24%
carb 20 6%

Breakfast bacon and egg
lunch Jalapeno poppers, cabbage, rotel and broth
Dinner steak and salad

I haven't had a glass of wine in like 3 weeks.
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Old 04-05-2013, 03:13 PM   #324
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but if they aren't open-minded nothing we say is going to help.
Have you met Leroy Jethro Gibbs?
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Old 04-05-2013, 03:14 PM   #325
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It was a bit sad actually, the third friend at dinner is booked in for a gastric bypass next week, I sat there ad watched her pack away a huge bowl of risotto accompanied by garlic bread followed by banana pudding as she criticised me for requesting extra garlic butter on my green beans
More than a bit sad. I get kinda mad about the way nutrition dogma has been promulgated in the US for the last several decades.
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Old 04-05-2013, 03:33 PM   #326
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NK Menu Planning Rough Draft

Alright ya'll! The rough draft NK menu planning thread is up!!

Rough Draft - NK Menu Planning

Let's create a super duper menu plan for NK
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Old 04-05-2013, 03:36 PM   #327
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I'm several days in and it's going well. A few times I've forgotten to eat within 30 min of waking but I'm doing ok with getting in 50 gm protein + fat at my breakfast by doing Casein shakes. I'm not having the shakes/tremors that I got with whey shakes last year when I tried the reset so I think this will be easier. I've also gotten a pretty good handle on my ovarian/adrenal/thyroid issues with my supplements things are slowly coming back to near normal. TMI alert for the men!!! (I think I might have ovulated for the first time in 20 years or so recently--hoo-ray!

I don't get hungry much in the evening so I have to make sure I get my protein in at breakfast and lunch just in case I only feel like having a HWC float or some cheese for dinner.

I'm having weird dreams which is something i experienced also the 1st round of reset last year, I hope it settles down soon.

No weight lost or gained yet but I feel like I'm shrinking and my clothes are definitely looser and my liver roll on my belly is definitely shrinking...

all in all, I'm feeling pretty positive about the LR this time around.
Hey deb, That's great! I tried a few days of having 30 g of protein for breakfast after I saw you leptin reset. Those days go a whole lot better for me. I tried a few days with no protein and high fat for breakfast. That did not work well for me.
Thanks for posting the LR rules. I am gonna incorporate some of them into my NK.
Whats a liver roll? Never heard that term.
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Old 04-05-2013, 03:37 PM   #328
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Alright ya'll! The rough draft NK menu planning thread is up!!

Rough Draft - NK Menu Planning

Let's create a super duper menu plan for NK
Thanks Darin
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Old 04-05-2013, 04:17 PM   #329
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Have you met Leroy Jethro Gibbs?
NCIS?
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Old 04-05-2013, 04:24 PM   #330
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Have you met Leroy Jethro Gibbs?
<3 The main reason to watch tv!!!
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