Low Carb Friends

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-   -   I've missed NK! (http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/nutritional-ketosis-high-fat-low-carb/798000-ive-missed-nk.html)

unna 02-27-2013 04:30 AM

I've missed NK!
Ready to get back in on the NK fun, but it is not so easy!

I recently took a trip to America to visit my family, which lasted one month. I cooked for my parents the entire time I was there - healthy primal meals. I didn't gain any weight (except for some water weight from the fruit and other carbs), so that's nice.

But even though I wasn't looking for these changes to occur, they did:

1. I lost my burst of energy in the morning
2. I am having more cravings than normal - having to fight off the fridge
3. More tired in the afternoon than normal
4. Not thinking as clearly - somewhat fatigued
5. In general, personality is not so positive

While I love fruit and sweet potatoes, I just don't know if I can handle them anymore. I had an apple at lunch that I sauteed in coco oil yesterday - it tasted divine. But then, I was immediately sleepy afterwords. I even laid my head down on my desk. I felt like poo.

I do wish I was more normal - I wish I could do all the fruits and veggies like most other people. But, I have to think that my childhood morbid obesity, followed by my teenage years of immature, extreme eating disorders, really caused some serious changes in my body. I don't know anyone else in real life that is so affected by something like an apple as I am.

I guess I should just be happy I found the theory of NK, and that in practice it really does work for me.

So, I'm back!! But all I can think about is eating a banana with almond butter. I feel like an addict trying to quit fruit.

My plan is to bring in some of my favorite "fats", proteins, and veggies - really stock up. I am also going to try to get as many walks in as I have time for, and up the coco-oil.

I need to get rid of this fatigue, fast.

Btw, my parents did AMAZING on the primal diet. My Mom effortlessly lost 15lbs, and my Dad effortlessly lost 20lbs.

Punkin 02-27-2013 04:57 AM

Welcome back Unna. Have you read the atkins book. Atkins a new you? I think it might really help you out. They don't present enough theory in the book but its good to give you a guide of what to do.

I recommend doing the induction for two weeks. Especially if you are wanting to still lose a few pounds. The induction period is designed to get you into "fat burning" mode as quickly as possible without your body shifting to down-regulation which is an issue for people with low body fat. And from what I remember, you aren't that far off from goal.

Myles 02-27-2013 05:12 AM

Hey unna! welcome back

reddarin 02-27-2013 06:37 AM

Unna, check out Jimmy Moore's podcast with Dr. Julia Ross, the author of The Diet Cure. She covers a lot of really great information on beating carb addiction. She discusses specific supplements to nuke carb cravings in 3 to 10 minutes.

Google 'jimmy moore julia ross atlcx 19'.

unna 02-27-2013 07:02 AM

Punkin: I did - just recently! I bought it for my mom a few months ago and read it while I was there! I agree that I need to do an induction..... definitely. Thanks for reminding me. But its not so much for weight loss as it is for energy and to fight cravings - I'm not really concerned with losing weight anymore. I am just concerned with feeling optimal.

goolash: thanks! I really missed this forum, but I didn't have much time at my parents to do anything besides cook and clean and food shop.

reddarin: I'm going to go check out the link right now - thanks!

btw - Has anyone ever heard/read any explanations for exactly why some people cannot handle carbs/sugar? Is it in our genes? Is it because our weight yoyo'd in an extreme way in the past?

Spei 02-27-2013 11:44 AM


Originally Posted by unna (Post 16283557)

btw - Has anyone ever heard/read any explanations for exactly why some people cannot handle carbs/sugar? Is it in our genes? Is it because our weight yoyo'd in an extreme way in the past?

Hi Unna, the LLVLC 630 show (Google jimmy moore richard johnson LLVLC 630) kind-of addresses your question. In this episode Dr. Richard Johnson talks about how diet can eventually induce an enzyme which facilitates the conversion of carbs into fructose. Once this enzyme is turned on we're more susceptible to weight gain, insulin resistance, leptin resistance etc. from a high carb diet. He mentioned in passing that some people may be more susceptible to this problem. The second half of the interview was disappointing with Jimmy and Dr. Johnson going back and forth about how much fat in a diet is too much.
My unscientific anecdotal experience has been that some people are more sensitive to carbs/sugar than others. I've been really sensitive all my life and I have a rail-thin brother who is not. I remember that he would start his day with a Coke and an orange. If I just ate an orange, I'd go into sugar overload. At one point in my life I was jealous of people who could easily handle sugar. Now I'm not. Although I'm not diabetic, I've had to watch my sugar intake (fruits included) all my life. If I ate too much sugar I'd have a sugar rush and feel horrible. Even though I've had to watch my sugar intake, I still ate low-fat high carb. I've since switched to high-fat, low carb and I feel so much better. I'm convinced that this is the healthy way to go for me. Given the high incidence of type 2 diabetes and the rise of type 3 diabetes (Alzheimer's), I'm no longer envious of those that can consume high amounts of sugar without getting fat.

jillybean720 02-27-2013 12:39 PM


Originally Posted by unna (Post 16283557)
btw - Has anyone ever heard/read any explanations for exactly why some people cannot handle carbs/sugar? Is it in our genes? Is it because our weight yoyo'd in an extreme way in the past?

There is SO much at play in our bodies, I'm not sure there is a clear answer. I am like you in that I feel better on LCHF and can be affected pretty strongly by sugar when I do indulge. However, I also know some folks who have tried to go LCHF and felt sluggish and bad (headaches and such) even after sticking to it for a month+. And both they and I have been morbidly obese and lost extreme amounts of weight, as we have all had weight loss surgery, so I'm not sure that yo-yoing is the culprit. I might think childhood/adolescent obesity plays a role since we're messing with our bodies while they're still developing (I was over 200 pounds upon entering high school).

And, this is going to sound odd, but, I even think some things can be traced back to how our mothers ate when pregnant with us and how we were fed as babies. I have done some reading on the topic of "fetal origins," and I found it SO interesting.

Yvonnem2000 02-27-2013 10:57 PM

Welcome back, Unna.

unna 02-27-2013 11:35 PM

Spei: Thanks so much for answering - I'm definitely going to listen to the first half of the Dr. Richard Johnson episode on Jimmy Moore. I've actually never heard of this enzyme, but sounds intriguing.

jillybean720:It is interesting to think about the affects of what your Mother ate...... Before I was born, in 1982, my Mother had tried many dieting attempts, which, at this time, were very, very low-fat. My Mother also has a clear addiction to carbs - really any and every form of sugar, lots of bread (she is overweight, but controls her weight by simply eating small portions... is pre-diabetic and developing glaucoma).

She actually "found out" she had Multiple Sclerosis (auto-immune disease) immediately after she had me - she went temporarily blind in one eye and her right leg became sluggish.

What about your mother???

I also definitely think being morbidly obese in childhood re-programs our bodies. I would love to be part of a study that investigates this topic.

When I was 14, I remember putting myself on a diet - and it was completely my idea. I decided I wasn't going to eat anything sweet at all. I remember losing weight very rapidly and feeling great. Of course, as a child, I didn't stick with it..... swayed by my friends and family eating candy and cookies. Anyway, there was still tons of sugar in my food - my Mom was an avid Aldi's shopper and was fond of processed box food like Hamburger Helper. Regardless, just cutting down the amount I did helped majorly, and I remember not feeling hungry or deprived.

There are two other childhood diets that my Mother put me on which I clearly remember: one with lots of pickled beets and mustard, eggs and grapefruit - that was absolutely awful, I think it only lasted a few days.

The other was Weight Watchers. I was the youngest at all the meetings - and one of the heaviest. It felt like punishment every week when I had to face the scale.

I'm not bashing WW, it seems to work for some people, but if you are a parent reading this: NEVER make your child "accountable" for their weight loss by making them weigh in at WW. It really does negatively impact your child's psychological development. And shame on WW for weighing in children and congratulating them when they lose, but also talking to them in a stern voice when they don't lose. This is not a place for children.

With WW, I just remember feeling deprived, hungry, and overwhelmed with the act of tallying all my points (weighing all my food and writing it down).

It seems like, as a child, I found out that sugar was the problem - but no one was talking about this in the 90s. My older brother was studying psychology at this time and was intrigued by my morbid obesity (this is when not too many children were this way).

He told me that I didn't seem to have an "off-switch" - that my brain didn't know when to stop eating like normal people. I know he was just trying to help, but it made me feel defective and abnormal - which is quite tragic for a pre-teen.

If only someone in my life back then would have had low-carb wisdom!

jillybean720 02-28-2013 07:49 AM

I was also born in 1982 :)

My mother quit smoking while she was pregnant with me, which led to her eating more and gaining a lot of weight. She was stressed out and ate plenty of junk. She gained significantly more weight with me than she had with my sister (born 5 years prior), and my sister did not battle childhood obesity like I did. I remember crying when I was maybe 11 or 12 years old because I was too fat to fit into my older sister's clothes.

I've heard before about how our bodies do not create more fat cells once we reach adulthood; the ones we have just expand or contract (although I've read that, in extreme cases of weight gain, new fat cells can be developed as an adult). I've also read that the fat cells we have are here to stay; when we lose weight, they shrink, but they do not go away. Having been obese as a child/adolescent leads me to draw the conclusion that now, as adults, we may have more fat cells in our bodies than those who were not obese in their younger years, thus compounding the struggle.

I remember going to TOPS meetings with my mom when I was in middle school. I also remember visiting with dieticians who, of course, recommended eating low in fat, lots of fruits and veggies and whole grains, limiting calories, etc. Telling a kid to change their diet is useless when they have no control over what is available to eat at home. Even though my mother would buy "healthy" (low fat, low calorie) options, she also continued to buy junk like regular soda and cookies and whatnot for my dad. Of COURSE I ate those things, too. Side dishes with dinners were routinely things like potatoes, canned corn, canned carrots, macaroni and cheese...starch, starch, and more starch. But healthy because it was all low in fat! :stars:

You know what they say about hindsight...

My mother now battles type 2 diabetes as well. My sister is now overweight, but that really didn't start to be a major issue for her like it was for me until she was in her late 20s; she has since been diagnosed with hypothyroidism. I try not too be critical of her, but her now 6-year-old daughter, while a very healthy weight and build, eats primarily carbs. Granted, it's a lot of fruit, but it's still...carby. I remember one time when my sister and niece were visiting, we went to the grocery store, and my sister bought some MorningStar Farms (vegetarian) "chicken" nuggets for my niece. I asked her why the vegetarian alternative, and she said she likes to teach her daughter to eat "healthy." I said real chicken is not unhealthy. I was ignored.

My family seems to dismiss the information I try to share about a LCHF way of eating as being healthy due to my having had weight loss surgery. Despite how many times I try to explain that the information I'm sharing applies to EVERYONE, not just post-WLS patients, they continue to believe that I am "different" because of my altered anatomy, and what works for me will not work for them. Very frustrating. My mother's A1C is up around 7.5, and she recently joined WW. I HATE the idea of WW for a type 2 diabetic where low calories are encouraged and high fat is essentially punished (high fat items are higher in "points"). Fruit is now a "free" food :annoyed:

unna 02-28-2013 11:13 PM

Jillybean: loved reading your story!

I know it is absolutely true that once the fat cells have been formed in childhood, they are always there and waiting to be filled. I can gain weight faster than anyone I know - literally 15lbs in 2 weeks, and its not water weight. It is extremely discouraging. But, knowledge of the problem helps.

Our poor mothers! Back then, they really had absolutely no idea what nutrition was at all. All I needed was real, whole foods and fat. Instead, I was given fat-free Entennmans pastry cakes and fat-free Snackwell's cookies, or weight watchers frozen meals ..... I look back, and I didn't have much real food in my diet. Vegetables included canned green beans and canned corn.

Funny story: when my mom was buying all these fat-free products and low-fat frozen meals (which I was made to eat daily to lose weight), I started breaking out in hives all over my body. Of course my poor mother never suspected they could be coming from something I was eating. At the doctor's, we had to filled out a form of everything I'd eaten in the past two weeks. He saw the form and went a bit crazy on my mother, and told her "stop feeding her that crap everyday!".

So, he sent me to a dietitian. But, she wasn't much help at all, and told me to eat lots of fruits and vegetables, and a low-fat diet in general. This was before I could cook, and my mom didn't know how to cook vegetables. I remember cutting up cauliflower heads and stuffing down the dry, white, tasteless pieces. It was SO hard. I felt like I had really accomplished something magnificent when I finished the bowl.

With regards to your niece and the morning star fake chicken nuggets, that is quite sad. On the other hand, the real chicken nuggets at Wal-mart aren't much better and the poor chickens had to suffer to make them.... there are just so many changes that need to happen.... on so many levels in the USA.... I mean, things aren't perfect here in Germany, but the food quality is leaps and bounds over what is available in most small towns in America. I had a hard time finding cage-free eggs while I was in small-town America! That is unheard of in Germany. But again, there are still problems with the German food system.

Also, I've noticed that at the moment, America is going through a very strong vegetarian/vegan phase, which is typically centered on tons of fake, high carb products and grains. I went through this phase a few years ago - I remember thinking animal products were the root causes of all health evils. I sort of understand where your sister is coming from.

Anyway, when you are going through this phase, you truly believe that you will become beautiful, thin, and moral by eliminating all animal products. I wish this were true - I would love to be a vegan for ethical reasons.

While my mind was into it, my body began failing me. My period started becoming very painful, I was heavily fatigued all the time, I had major blood sugar crashes constantly, and I was of course gaining weight (and I was even a healthy, whole foods and grains vegan).

I know there are many people who make atkins and vegetarianism/veganism work, but unfortunately I can't. I simply need animal fat and protein to function on any level. I don't think NK is for everyone, but I do think it is especially good for people who were very obese as children. I think we are especially sensitive to carbs.

It must be hard to have your family think that your weight loss is due only to your weight loss surgery, thus shunning your advice. That's not fair.

I'm just curious, what type of diet do the doctors put weight loss surgery patients on? I know someone who just had it done a few months ago, and she told me she can eat absolutely anything she wants.... she just has to take a vitamin powder and eat very slowly. The other night, she was taking tequila shots - apparently alcohol is allowed?

Unfortunately, because she has no idea about weight loss, and the advice to eat whatever she wants is unhelpful, I don't know if I see this working for her in the long run. Weight loss surgery still requires work, its not a free-ticket out.

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