in ketosis, eating on plan, not losing

[tiva]

You might consider an occasional carb refeed--Marks Daily Apple has some interesting information about how athletes might benefit from an occasional day of good starches (no grains!) to get leptin levels high again.

JUDDD might also be worth trying--keep your macro and food the same on a weekly basis, but instead of eating the same amount each day, alternate days, so one day has 1/3 the food of the alternate days. (So if you were aiming for an average of 1500 calories each day, one day would have 750 calories and the next day would have 2250 calories).

[reddarin]

"I was like what the heck body??? "

heh

[LarlaB]

Originally Posted by Punkin

This is a classic example of someone who is exercising for the purpose of losing weight, which in theory should work if you believe this: "to lose weight you have to burn more calories than you take in."

Sorry LarlaB, don't mean to pick on you, but your post is a good example of where I used to be.

The problem is that if you are exercise for vanity reasons (ie. burning off the fat) you are shooting yourself in the foot. Because it doesn't work, especially in the long term. You can lose some fat yes, but not all of it. This is why:

It takes a long time to burn off fat. Not months, years. Most people have a lot more body fat on them then they realize. Usually people think they have 10 extra pounds but it is more like 20+. It is easy to overeat, difficult to burn off the extra calories. The more you exercise, the more your body becomes very efficient at burning calories. If you do it enough, you eventually make your body so efficient at burning calories that you burn almost the same amount as a person who doesn't exercise. READ THAT AGAIN. The more you do it, the more you bring your metabolism closer to that of someone who doesn't exercise. If you are not keto-adapted, your body will start using fat to fuel your workouts, however if you are not, when you run out of glucose your body WILL ASK FOR MORE. If you can resist those urges great, because they are pretty strong, I never could.

I had to drill this into my head to finally get it. And I have a pretty thick head so it took awhile. It is finally when I got this, that I stopped exercising like a crazy person to try to lose weight, and now when I go out its more for fun and less for the purpose of losing weight.

So why am I not out training for a marathon when I still need to shed a few pounds? Because now I know I can do it through diet, without having to spend time away from my family and doing things like gardening, cooking etc. ie. things that bring better rewards. It is just so much easier and better to do it through diet because the diet does the work for you. It takes so much less effort.

Right now I do about 1 hour of exercise a day and that includes strength training, and some days I don't even do that. And the best thing about it, is that I don't even care if I take a day off. Where as when I was into the "exercise to burn off fat" mode I would be plagued by guilt when I missed a day. I would think about the fat that I was either not losing or packing on as a consequence of not exercising.

But that is just me, I like to take the easy road not the hard road

Well you did pick on me sweetie and I must reply

Please don't speak about me like you know me, my history or my choices. Its rude and offensive and obvious that you are projecting your issues onto me. Don't use me as an example, particularly if you don't know what you're talking about, K?

I run because I LOVE to run- I've run for years and years and years. Please don't assume that because you were obsessed w/ 'fat burning' that endurance folks are even thinking about weight loss/calorie burn as a focus...yes, we talk about it, but its because we would be fools to ignore it!

I changed my eating to LCHF 6 months ago to (1)control blood sugar, (2)lose weight and (3) become a keto-adapted runner. I was successful in these goals.

Anyway- I get that you were trying to make a point, and frankly we don't disagree that much- but I do resent being stereotyped. Clearly you don't love running!

[LarlaB]

Originally Posted by ~~v~~

Punkin - great post. Thanks!

Yes, I gained weight exercising like crazy and keeping a food journal while training for my first ironman. I was like what the heck body???

I think the HUGE advantage of being a keto-adapted endurance athlete is not bonking. But as far as losing weight, the amount of training I do is counterproductive. I know this. But I still want to lose weight and do the sports I enjoy. So frustrating. grrr

My goal is keto-adaption in running- it makes such a HUGE difference and feels like 'autopilot' and I agree, its a huge advantage and I don't ever want to go back.

But to marry the intense training w/ reduced calories seems to just be problematic for continued weight loss. As I've said, there seems to be a certain threshhold of running that my body is ok w/ insofar as it still releases fat....but then I tip over that thresh-hold and it starts to hit a pause button. Since I'm 3-4lbs from goal, I'm more fascinated by this process than annoyed/concerned... frankly, I'd say dial back the exercise to a poiont where you can start losing....lose what you want/get to goal, then increase activity load.

[LarlaB]

Originally Posted by clackley

I am sorry that you are struggling to get those last few lbs. off. I am an expert on stymied weight loss and know first hand, how frustrating it can be, but I wanted to comment that your story is a perfect example of how irrational calories in/calories out is.

You may want to research adrenal fatigue. I think there are some reasonable hypotheses there and possible solutions.

I think calories in/out is only a part of the equation, for sure!!!

And funny you should mention adrenal fatigue....I've been on supplements for 4 months now (GAIA brand- excellent, by the way) and have felt better than I have in years!

[Punkin]

I understand exactly how you feel because someone did the exact same thing to me a little over a year ago. And I was ticked off, it was someone on the internet who forced me to look in the mirror at what I was doing, friends and family are too nice and won't say anything. And if I could thank them in person I would. Having my feathers ruffled by some unknown person was the best thing that every happened to me.

[Punkin]

There is something that happens with excessive endurance exercise, your body actually becomes more efficient with storing fat and burning calories. It happened with me and became completely counter productive, since my real reason for taking it up was to lose weight. Its one of the reasons I stopped. Basically it came down to this: if I wanted to keep losing weight or burning off the fat. I would've had to keep upping my mileage and my number of hours. And, you once you start, you can't ever stop. It basically comes down to one thing: You can't outrun the fat, it will gets you eventually.

I'm glad that my posts are helping you, because where I am at now after realizing this, is such a better place! I might still do a tri next season, but my approach to training is going to be much different this year.

[LarlaB]

Originally Posted by Punkin

There is something that happens with excessive endurance exercise, your body actually becomes more efficient with storing fat and burning calories. It happened with me and became completely counter productive, since my real reason for taking it up was to lose weight. Its one of the reasons I stopped. Basically it came down to this: if I wanted to keep losing weight or burning off the fat. I would've had to keep upping my mileage and my number of hours. And, you once you start, you can't ever stop. It basically comes down to one thing: You can't outrun the fat, it will gets you eventually.

I'm glad that my posts are helping you, because where I am at now after realizing this, is such a better place! I might still do a tri next season, but my approach to training is going to be much different this year.

And that, my dear, is the difference between us, which you are choosing to ignore. I have run for years- I run because I love it...(why else would you train for a marathon? Its grueling and hard on the mind/body) I do not run with the desire to burn calories/lose weight - but I do factor it in when considering what I should be eating. Weight loss happens in the kitchen, hence why I dropped 25lbs by making eating changes.

You are projecting your stuff on to me- you are not 'helping'. Now, stop it.

[clackley]

Originally Posted by LarlaB

I think calories in/out is only a part of the equation, for sure!!!

And funny you should mention adrenal fatigue....I've been on supplements for 4 months now (GAIA brand- excellent, by the way) and have felt better than I have in years!

That is great!

[mizzcase]

Wow, you could cut the tension in this thread with a knife. Maybe some people need to take a step away from the computer a do a long run to cool down or something, honey...

[LarlaB]

Nevermind

[Punkin]

Sometimes it doesn't take much to start an "e-fight." You try to help people and look what you get...LOL

Hopefully OP can work through his fueling/exercise and make it work for him based on what people have posted.

[mizzcase]

Agreed, punkin!

[~~v~~]

In the midst of some squabbling there is a lot of good info here and I appreciate it.

Unfortunately I am in the "endurance sports because I love it" camp.

As my training ramps up for ironman I'm thinking maybe I'll lose a few pounds (rather than gain like last time) just from not being as hungry. If you go on a 100 mile bike ride and then pig out you are doubly-doomed in the fat storage dept. So maybe this time around it'll go a little better. *fingers crossed*

[sharkbait]

Originally Posted by ~~v~~

Ok, I use an online tracker a

would you mind sharing this tracker?

[reddarin]

Originally Posted by sharkbait

would you mind sharing this tracker?

FYI - Most sites that provide trackers also have advertisers that compete with netrition so the TOS doesn't allow posting their names or URLs.

[MerryKate]

Originally Posted by mizzcase

Wow, you could cut the tension in this thread with a knife. Maybe some people need to take a step away from the computer a do a long run to cool down or something, honey...

[LarlaB]

Originally Posted by ~~v~~

In the midst of some squabbling there is a lot of good info here and I appreciate it.

Unfortunately I am in the "endurance sports because I love it" camp.

As my training ramps up for ironman I'm thinking maybe I'll lose a few pounds (rather than gain like last time) just from not being as hungry. If you go on a 100 mile bike ride and then pig out you are doubly-doomed in the fat storage dept. So maybe this time around it'll go a little better. *fingers crossed*

Good luck! It obviously takes trial & error to find what works! I'm still in progress, but finding (again) that when I don't have a huge training load I can eat more consistently, which for some reason equals weight loss.

I trust the squabbling didn't detract from the information shared. It takes all kind to make a community!

[Rosie Posie]

Any update ~~V~~?

[~~v~~]

still stalled.... so frustrated. trying to stick with it and eat clean :/

[unna]

Although I do think the tension in the thread is quite interesting to read! .....

My humble, simple thoughts:

With any long endurance training sessions, (1) your body begins producing cortisol.

(2) the cortisol production results in higher blood sugar (your body is under stress, feels it is in danger, and thus may need instant energy to "flee" the situation)

(3) insulin is released to stimulate your cells to sponge up this excess sugar out of your bloodstream

(4) and, well, we all know about insulin and fat storage

This is why endurance training and weight loss are not good friends like we think they should be, as Punkin brought out.

Many cyber-women begin counting calories and training for a marathon at the same time. They are constantly hungry, it brings out binging behavior, and they even gain 10lbs.

I also love running, but keep it to no longer than 12km a few times a week (55 min). This doesn't seem to inhibit weight loss or cause a good deal of stress on my body.

I mean, I hope you are able to lose weight and train for the triathlon at the same time; but, from a rational perspective, these goals aren't compatible with each other. You may have to train now, then afterwords you can shift your attention to weight loss.

Just be good to your body! Respect it. It is not your enemy, but rather it is designed to keep you alive. I found it was easier to work with my body, which is quite intelligent, than to continually try to be an external dictator over it..... that NEVER worked for longer than a few months.

[Punkin]

I think exercise is great, as long as you aren't expecting to lose bodyfat from doing it. Gary Taubes books are very informative and explain the details about why this is true. I know for myself I expected exercise to lower my bodyfat percentage, which is where I went wrong.