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Old 02-06-2013, 08:29 AM   #1
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Need Some Newbie Help (Warning-1 female oriented question inside)

Hi All!
Newbie here! I am currently in the middle of my 4th week of high fat/moderate protein/low carb. I need your advice! I have never posted on one of these thimgs, but I just found you guys and started reading a week or two ago.
So far, I've lost 9.5 lbs so far. I usually eat 65-70% fat, 55-80g protein, and 30-45 total carbs. I usually eat between 1300-1700 calories a day. I am 5'4 and currently around 155 (water weight is confusing). I am ultimately looking to get to 125 (college weight from 2008), but I am hoping to get to 135ish range before and my husband's beach vacay in May.
Since I have started I have never felt that "burst" of energy that many people talk about. I have days of real fatigue and exhaustion. I have had brief glimpses of energy, but can't say its consistent at all. At the beginning of this week, I started my "TOM" and just became so exhausted I feel like I'm barely functioning. I have major fatigue and always want a nap. I have been trying to supplement with 2 bouillon cubes (2g sodium total) a day. My average sodium a day right now is between 2g-3g. That seems to take the edge off, but still very fatigued. I also just started supplementing with multivitamin, fish oil, and vitamin D about two days ago (although I realize I should have been taking a multivitamin all along).
Anyway, any advice on the fatigue? Do you think its just still the "flu" and body is adjusting?
Also, I am losing just fine at the moment (having checked this week, due to TOM. Its too depressing to watch the scale go up for no apparent reason). But could it be that my body is taking longer to adjust since I have higher carbs then a lot of people on ketosis?

The other question I have is...anyone else spotting since they started ketosis? I am on BC and have never spotted before, but had a decent amount of spotting since on ketosis.

Also, I'm getting my ketone strips next week, so I am hoping to see where I am at. (btw, anyone else terrified of the first finger prick...I know it will be super easy, but for some reason seems intimidating. I'll make my husband do it first

Thanks all!!
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Old 02-06-2013, 09:34 AM   #2
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It could be just a normal adjustment to NK for you. It takes 2 to 4 weeks normally. Dr. Eades wrote a great blog post about getting past induction flu if that is the problem. Google 'Dr. Eades blog Tips & tricks for starting (or restarting) low-carb Pt I'.

Add a magnesium supplement. Try to find one that is more than one pill for the RDA so you can take a few days to reach the RDA. Otherwise you might need to plan on some bathroom time when you start supplementing. You might need to anyway. But you'll adjust to it after a bit and that won't continue to be a problem. I take 2xRDA.

Are you very active? 1300 is very low, particularly if you are an active person. A big calorie deficit brings out the coritsol troops to save body fat from the apparent famine. If you stick to about 1600 a day you should see scale movement and prevent the cortisol response. That should be about a 500 calorie deficit for you if you are sedentary and about an 800 calorie deficit if you are active.

Do you feel anything else with the fatigue, like light headedness or something? Plain fatigue could just be your metabolism slowing down due to low calorie intake.

The good news is that you have plenty of time to tweak things and hit the beaches skinny
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Old 02-06-2013, 09:37 AM   #3
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Oh, potassium too. The diuretic nature of LC means you lose sodium, potassium, magnesium, et. al. because you don't retain water like HC'rs do.
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Old 02-06-2013, 10:25 AM   #4
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Hi Reddarin,
Thanks for responding. I have felt light headed before-usually in the morning is the worst. I'm really not active right now. Been snowed in and I work an office job. So besides housework and walking 1-2x a week while playing in the snow, I really haven't tried to get active (It is my goal, I just wanted to adjust my eating first, I knew both at the same time would be too much).
And hey 1600 is totally do-able. I was worried you'd say to cut it down some more! (shakes fist at all of the low calorie propaganda)
Should I just google what my daily Mag, Potassium intake should be? I bet there is a handy, dandy blog post someplace on here. I'll look around!
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Old 02-06-2013, 10:40 AM   #5
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Magnesium is 400mg for the RDA. I take 3 of the potassium 99mg pills a day. 2 to 4 is probably about right for potassium. If you are taking any medication be sure to check for interaction. For example, you have to be careful about potassium if you take BP meds.

There are a couple of Jimmy Moore podcasts about supplements that you can listen to.

Google 'atlcx 26 Jimmy Moore bowden all things vitamin' for general supplements.

Google 'llvlc 602 Jimmy Moore magnesium robbins' for one about magnesium in particular.

Light headed dizzy stuff is usually an electrolyte imbalance. Up your salt some more and take the supplements. You need about 5 grams of sodium total a day for LC so if your food and extra salt shaker activity is not hitting close to that use more. And table salt is only 40% sodium. 5 grams of sodium from table salt is two tea spoons.
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Old 02-06-2013, 12:32 PM   #6
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There is one type of magnesium that is better correct? I remember someone saying to pick one over the other..is that right?
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Old 02-06-2013, 01:00 PM   #7
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Yes but I can't remember off hand which one it is. I know the magnesium oxide is the worst one for absorbtion.
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Old 02-06-2013, 01:17 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by UOMyst13 View Post
There is one type of magnesium that is better correct? I remember someone saying to pick one over the other..is that right?
The Art & Science of Low Carb Performance recommends "Slow-Mag" which I believe is magnesium citrate. I think there are also generic versions of this supplement, but this is the one I take. It really takes care of my night-time leg cramps, though that is not why it's being recommended to you.
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Old 02-06-2013, 04:00 PM   #9
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4 to 5 g sodium/day is what Phinney and Volek recommend in The Art & Science of Low Carb Performance. The high sodium also help keep potassium from being excreted to fast.

An easier way to get potassium than the tiny pills (99 mg is nothing to the 4700 mg FDA rec) is to get NoSalt which is the same potassium chloride in powdered form. 1/4 teaspoon is 650 mg, so you don't want to pile it on. A lot of people find it bitter as a salt substitute. It doesn't bother me. I mixed it in bone broth.

(Making your own bone broth if you have time, is a great way to get a pile of minerals including some calcium. I make mine in the crock pot so not much actual work is involved. Sub it for the bouillon cubes - much tastier and you can use as much salt as you need)

Another form of magnesium citrate is Natural Calm. It's a powder that you stir into water and drink. The plain is just generically tart. There are also flavors if you want. I do 3 rounded teaspoons a day, which with what I eat bring my magnesium up to @800mg per day. DO NOT go to that level at one go; you have to build up gradually or very unpleasant bathroom incidents will follow.

I've been doing the above since day 1 and have managed to escape all the nasty cramps and fatigue that I had last time I tried to go very low carb. If you get hold of The Art & Science of Low Carb Performance, there is a lot of fantastic info in there that will help tremendously.
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Old 02-06-2013, 08:31 PM   #10
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Really glad I googled some info on my BC before taking potassium supplements. Apparently the form of birth control I'm on makes the body hang on to potassium and says it can be dangerous to take potassium supplements. To anyone taking yaz, Yasmin, or ocella, be careful! Maybe I'll talk this over with my doctor next appt. thanks for the advice to look up info first., I never would have thought of anything reacting with BC.
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Old 02-06-2013, 09:41 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kayellr View Post
4 to 5 g sodium/day is what Phinney and Volek recommend in The Art & Science of Low Carb Performance. The high sodium also help keep potassium from being excreted to fast.

An easier way to get potassium than the tiny pills (99 mg is nothing to the 4700 mg FDA rec) is to get NoSalt which is the same potassium chloride in powdered form. 1/4 teaspoon is 650 mg, so you don't want to pile it on. A lot of people find it bitter as a salt substitute. It doesn't bother me. I mixed it in bone broth.

(Making your own bone broth if you have time, is a great way to get a pile of minerals including some calcium. I make mine in the crock pot so not much actual work is involved. Sub it for the bouillon cubes - much tastier and you can use as much salt as you need)

Another form of magnesium citrate is Natural Calm. It's a powder that you stir into water and drink. The plain is just generically tart. There are also flavors if you want. I do 3 rounded teaspoons a day, which with what I eat bring my magnesium up to @800mg per day. DO NOT go to that level at one go; you have to build up gradually or very unpleasant bathroom incidents will follow.

I've been doing the above since day 1 and have managed to escape all the nasty cramps and fatigue that I had last time I tried to go very low carb. If you get hold of The Art & Science of Low Carb Performance, there is a lot of fantastic info in there that will help tremendously.
I'm reading the Art and Science of Low Carb Living by the same authors and have learned so much from it. The performance book didn't hold much appeal for me since I'm not the least bit athletic. Maybe I'll be ready for it once I get some of this weight off.
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Old 02-07-2013, 07:21 PM   #12
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Well, I don't think I have ever spotted between periods before, but I read this thread this morning and like an hour later... It's day 15 of my cycle so I am not thrilled. Bad enough to have to deal with a period every month but if there's gonna be issues in between. I'm not taking any hormonal birth control. If it's not ketosis, the only other thing I can think of is menopause. A doctor told me not long ago that I wouldn't have to worry about menopause for well over ten years. I guess that was about five years ago now (jeesh time flies when you're old!). At any rate, I don't think it's menopause-related.
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:03 PM   #13
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Low carb made me very bleedy for quite a while. I had to go on BCP to make it stop, and I still spotted for several months but I seem to have adjusted.

Magnesium citrate, chloride, and glycinate are all well absorbed. I take 400 mg of mag glycinate per day. I also take a 1 gram salt pill and a potassium pill in the morning or I feel lousy. Also, a B complex, acetyl l-carnitine, alpha lipoic acid, vit D, turmeric, ginger, and a multi mineral. And a handful of prescriptions that aren't related to low carb.

I've been low carb for a year and a half, and while I went into ketosis quickly without much induction flu, it took me about 6 months to start feeling noticeably better. Then I got keto adapted and learned that I need lots of salt. It probably would have happened sooner if I had stopped eating wheat completely. I've been wheat free for about 5 months and that made a big difference for me with allergies and other inflammation. But I have other long standing issues with fatigue and brain fog that make me unusual.
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:26 PM   #14
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Being in the fertility business, spotting happens and is normal with body changes. With Keto, your hormones may be a little confused, and will eventually adapt. You're not pre menopausal because you are spotting. Many women spot in middle of the month when they ovulate. Menstrual cycles rely on body fat to keep regular. When you a lot in short time, again body needs to adjust. You can always visit your Doctor for a medical opinion.
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Old 02-08-2013, 06:02 PM   #15
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Hi UO, I'm 5'4 as well, currently 130 trying to get down to about 110. I have a crazy small bone structure.

Have you tried sugar free sports drinking to get over the lightheadedness? They replenish your electrolytes. I love Powerade Zero and it helps tremendously.

To avoid muscle cramps, I drink bouillon (Wyler's, store bought) with 1.5 oz of HWC. It is so tasty, like cream of chicken soup. Some people say to watch out for the store bought stuff because there is 1g of added sugar and sometimes a little bit of wheat in it, but it doesn't bother me.

I'm just throwing this thought out there, but based on the way you're feeling and your carb consumption, I'm wondering if you are on the borderline of ketosis and going back and forth in and out of it too often to get sustained feelings of energy, etc. I was eating around 30-40 grams of carbs when I first started NK (mostly from salad veggies) and I felt AWFUL most of the time. The nausea was the worst thing ever. I dropped my carbs down to 25 total, less than 20 net, and those issues subsided almost immediately. So what I think, and I could be totally wrong about this, is that at night my body would firmly swing to the side of ketosis, and in the morning I'd feel fine. But around 2 or 3 every day (about an hour after I'd eat those salad veggies) I'd start feeling like total crap and need a nap. This happened every day for about a month until I cut out the salad. And I feel so much butter now! Just a thought..

Anyway, I've found my sweet spot at these macros: 1420 calories, 62g protein, 20g carbs, and the rest fat. Hope this helps =)

I should add that I'm moderately active (lifting 3x a week), and on days when I am a hungry monster (usually after the gym), my calories are closer to 1750 and I eat up to 89g of protein.

Last edited by mizzcase; 02-08-2013 at 06:04 PM..
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Old 02-10-2013, 07:35 PM   #16
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Solarpluvia-there is a salt pill? That sounds like the easiest way to get salt. Right now I am chugging powerade and bouillon (thanks to you guys btw). Where do I get that?

Dawn-I hope I am not ovulating..im on birth control. But from what I'm hearing, switching to keto really plays with your cycle for several months. Hearing that is encouraging.

Mizz-I was kinda worried that I may be buzzing in and out of keto. Oh man. I feel like dropping my carbs even further is going to be so hard. I am tring my hardest to cut them out as much as possible and still reaching 30-40s. Looks like I need to sit down and plan more...
Also, what has it been like for you to lose a smaller amount of weight on keto? I havent talked to many that was trying to lose weight on the lower end of the "normal range". Only being on my 4 week, im trying to buckle up for the up and down rollercoaster that people tell me is inevitable.
how do you know you have such a small frame? Wrist circumference?
Could you post a day with 20 g carbs a day? Just to give me a reference point? ( your sweet spot)?
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Old 02-10-2013, 11:51 PM   #17
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Salt pills are available to order over the internet, though if you have a fantastic local pharmacy you might get lucky there. Because of the price, I am considering getting empty capsules and a tiny amounts scale and filling them myself.
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Old 02-11-2013, 04:55 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UOMyst13 View Post
Solarpluvia-there is a salt pill? That sounds like the easiest way to get salt. Right now I am chugging powerade and bouillon (thanks to you guys btw). Where do I get that?

Dawn-I hope I am not ovulating..im on birth control. But from what I'm hearing, switching to keto really plays with your cycle for several months. Hearing that is encouraging.

Mizz-I was kinda worried that I may be buzzing in and out of keto. Oh man. I feel like dropping my carbs even further is going to be so hard. I am tring my hardest to cut them out as much as possible and still reaching 30-40s. Looks like I need to sit down and plan more...
Also, what has it been like for you to lose a smaller amount of weight on keto? I havent talked to many that was trying to lose weight on the lower end of the "normal range". Only being on my 4 week, im trying to buckle up for the up and down rollercoaster that people tell me is inevitable.
how do you know you have such a small frame? Wrist circumference?
Could you post a day with 20 g carbs a day? Just to give me a reference point? ( your sweet spot)?

Hi UO, I had a long post typed up for you this morning but I accidentally pressed my browser's back button.

Here is what I ate today:

B: 1 cup coffee w/ 1TBS HWC, 3 slices bacon
S: diet root beer float with 2.5 oz HWC
L: 2.5 oz cheddar cheese, 2 oz macadamia nuts
D: 5 oz strip steak topped with 1 T butter, fried cabbage with bacon and onions
Powerade zero throughout the day..

1244 calories/99g fat/24.6g carbs (16 net)/70.2g protein

This day was kind of low on calories, so I might have a cup of chicken bouillon with 2T butter whipped in if I get hungry before bed..

I should add that I NEVER do anything like a meat and egg fast to keep my carbs low.. I need vegetables daily. If I don't have veggies on the side with dinner, I'll have a big salad for lunch: mixed lettuce, tomatoes, cucumbers, roasted red peppers, cheese, and olive oil, typically.

Losing weight is pretty easy for me and it happens rapidly (when frozen yogurt doesn't call my name).. I lost 10 pounds in a week early December eating 62-89g protein and under 20 net carbs, between 1500-1750 calories a day..Got pretty sidetracked over the holidays which included a 3 week Texas vacation.

I do have a lot of factors on my side though: I'm 24, am pretty active, don't really have any insulin resistance, and was never overweight to begin with.

My wrists are 3.75 inches (freaky) and I start to feel tubby between 120-125 pounds, so thats why my goal weight (110) is so low. Its right for me though.

Last edited by mizzcase; 02-11-2013 at 04:57 PM..
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Old 02-11-2013, 05:07 PM   #19
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Hi UO, I had a long post typed up for you this morning but I accidentally pressed my browser's back button.
Man! I've done that before. Once you click it is all over with but the shock and panicky waving of hands while rapid glancing around for a way to stop it from happening lol
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Old 02-11-2013, 05:52 PM   #20
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Haha, YES red! My heart sunk. Thankfully, looking back on it I was still delirious due to just waking up, so much more of it was probably nonsense than the repost I did tonight.
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Old 02-11-2013, 06:42 PM   #21
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heh maybe a stand up and whirl around with double face palm depending on how super duper you felt the post was
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Old 02-12-2013, 04:23 AM   #22
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It was mostly nonsense and I'm sure members of the forum that have been reading my posts over the last several months would wonder if I thought drinking wine at 6 am was acceptable
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Old 02-12-2013, 10:24 AM   #23
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If it was LC wine we'd be high fiving you
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Old 02-13-2013, 09:28 AM   #24
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Thanks mizz! I set my macros to match yours to see what that would look like. It took a little adjustment but I think I'm figuring out the lower carbs! Thank you for your help!!!
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Old 02-13-2013, 11:49 AM   #25
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I hope you used percentages and not counts if you're setting your macros to mine.. that day was really low. I try to eat between 1500-1750 a day. Case in point, the morning after I ate 1250 calories I saw no weight loss, by yesterday I ate 1600 and this morning I was down 1.6 pounds from the day before.
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Old 02-13-2013, 02:43 PM   #26
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Yeah I was talking about your "sweet spot" counts
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