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-   -   Help, can't get into ketosis (http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/nutritional-ketosis-high-fat-low-carb/796512-help-cant-get-into-ketosis.html)

Philly 02-06-2013 07:09 AM

Help, can't get into ketosis
 
I've been trying for over two weeks now trying to get into NK. I've been blood testing for almost 10 days now and have only increased from 0.2 to 0.3. Can anyone advise if it really takes this long to get into NK. I've been paleo low carb for over a year, so I thought it wouldn't take this long. The last coue of days I've decreased protein even more to about 55g(I'm 5'6" and around 139lbs) this doesn't seem to change it? Do I need to cut more? Do I need to IF?
Thanks for any advice

Punkin 02-06-2013 07:20 AM

Can you describe what you were eating on Paleo? Maybe a sample of a daily menu that would be typical?

drjlocarb 02-06-2013 07:37 AM

Hi Philly :welcome:

How many carbs and calories are you eating? Exercise? 55g of protein is really low.

And yes, it can take longer for some people to reach NK numbers. Usually if you have been LC, it is faster, but LC is a relative term. 100g or 50g or 20g?

Philly 02-06-2013 08:37 AM

I'm keeping carbs between 20-30g total.
Sample menu is
B- egg yolks/bacon or meat/asparagus/ghee
L-meat(3oz) and veggie/ CO or coconut flakes
D- meat/veggie/fat bomb(1-2)
Thanks for advice

Philly 02-06-2013 09:17 AM

I always have bone broth with each meal, and sometimes avocado at lunch

clackley 02-06-2013 05:59 PM

Hi Philly and welcome. I think it can take up to 6 wks. If I remember correctly. Keep doing what you have been and you will get there!

Philly 02-07-2013 04:57 AM

Thanks, I feel frustrated but will keep it going... Any advice on when you tweak your protein portions, how long to see affect in blood ketone level, next day or several days to see change effect before doing another change?

drjlocarb 02-07-2013 05:24 AM

I would give it 6 weeks to get into NK then I usually wait for 2-3 weeks to see if a tweak makes a real difference.

Philly 02-08-2013 03:48 AM

thanks drjlocarb, my level went up to 0.4 this morning so looking like at this rate it will take 4-6 weeks to reach ketosis level. Just really had no idea it would take that long...Do you think I will start to lose weight at that time, nothing is budging right now at all???

drjlocarb 02-08-2013 06:54 AM

That, dear Philly, is a whole nother can of worms!

Yvonnem2000 02-08-2013 08:38 AM

Maybe I missed it, but how much fat are you eating? I'd load up on fat for a day or two and see if that makes the difference. Once you are in NK you can bring it back down.

sharkbait 02-08-2013 09:15 AM

it can be quite frustrating... are you exercising at all? That can help. I remember going from 0.4 to 1.1 and back to 0.4 in the space of a week which was quite confusing as i thought i was eating fine. I realised I was eating too much protein and my portions of veg were too large. That said, everyone is different. Are you using a urine or blood test? Urine can be quite inaccurate. Stick with it and you will get there. Good luck

Philly 02-08-2013 09:55 AM

Thanks for replies:)
I'm eating about 75% fat, 5% carb,20% protein(75g) most days around 1600-1800 cals... Guess my body is fighting letting go, just really thought I'd have some movement by now.
I'm doing blood ketone monitoring and it's only at 0.4 as of this morning!
I love the support to keep it going, guess its very slow and steady wins the race:)

clackley 02-08-2013 10:04 AM

Maybe add coconut oil if you are not already.

sharkbait 02-08-2013 10:39 AM

hmmm, i would be interestd to see your afternoon readings, say 2 hours or more after lunch. The way I understand it is that ketones are produced by your body burning the fat cells. ie, you ketones are high because your body is burning fat as opposed to your body burning fat because your ketones are high. In the mornings, your ketones should be lower as you have just woken up and after exercise your ketones should be higher as you have been burning fat. I try to test at least 2 hours after i have eaten but before i train. But as I've said before, although I have done quite a bit of research I'm still a newbie.... this is just how I understand it...:dunno:

NKSL55 02-08-2013 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharkbait (Post 16247984)
hmmm, i would be interestd to see your afternoon readings, say 2 hours or more after lunch. The way I understand it is that ketones are produced by your body burning the fat cells. ie, you ketones are high because your body is burning fat as opposed to your body burning fat because your ketones are high. In the mornings, your ketones should be lower as you have just woken up and after exercise your ketones should be higher as you have been burning fat. I try to test at least 2 hours after i have eaten but before i train. But as I've said before, although I have done quite a bit of research I'm still a newbie.... this is just how I understand it...:dunno:

I have never had higher ketone levels after a work out than before. Work out 3 times a week and test my BK levels before and after 90% of the time. I would estimate that my BK drops an average of 1.5 mM during a workout.

--
Phillip

sharkbait 02-08-2013 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharkbait (Post 16247984)
as I've said before, although I have done quite a bit of research I'm still a newbie.... this is just how I understand it...:dunno:

well, i am learning :)

sharkbait 02-08-2013 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NKSL55 (Post 16247997)
I have never had higher ketone levels after a work out than before. Work out 3 times a week and test my BK levels before and after 90% of the time. I would estimate that my BK drops an average of 1.5 mM during a workout.

--
Phillip

Do you think that's might be due to your brain using ketones? which would cause the levels to drop? I've never done a before and after test... the strips are too expensive... only test every 3rd day.

luigi_uk 02-08-2013 12:24 PM

interesting post, im seem to have gone out of NK its so easy to do, a bit too much protein and/or veg, bam body stops being in ketosis, i eat tons of good fats too

Philly 02-09-2013 03:51 AM

Ugh...now this morning my blood level down to 0.2!!!
I do coconut oil,I do hot yoga only 2x week, I eat appropriate ratios, but really?!?!?!?

drjlocarb 02-09-2013 05:31 AM

What is your age and height? Are you male or female?

NKSL55 02-09-2013 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharkbait (Post 16248105)
Do you think that's might be due to your brain using ketones? which would cause the levels to drop? I've never done a before and after test... the strips are too expensive... only test every 3rd day.

During a workout? No. I mean you can come up with whatever summary of what someones body "does" in ketosis you want. Some descriptions will cover a greater set of circumstances than others. The "ketones bodies are for nervous tissue" is a description from non-exercising people. I am sure my muscles are burning whatever they can during exercise.

Or, those BK strips are some sort of enzyme coupled assay for BHB. Maybe my acetoacetate levels might be sky high for all I know. I doubt it. But since I am measure one type of ketone body, that is all the direct information I have.

--
Phillip

Philly 02-09-2013 11:17 AM

drjlocarb, I'm female, 5'6" around 139#, I was at 129 at thanksgiving and was very happy, but gained 10 pounds over two months of incorporating "safe starches" like winter squashes,sweet potatoes, and plantains...now I know that I do not tolerate carbs well, but am stuck with these pounds!!

drjlocarb 02-09-2013 12:52 PM

The keto calculator shows at a calorie level of 1600, you will maintain your current weight.

Aside from that, the ketone levels will vary day to day. Here are mine;

Date- bk - bg
1-17, 0.2- 117
1-18, 0.5- 110
1-19, 0.3- 112
1-20, 0.3- 112
1-21, 0.5- 111
1-22, 0.5- 111
1-23, 0.2- 115
1-24, 1.3- 109
cont.
1-25, 0.2- 97---wt 242.5
1-26, 0.4- 99----243
1-27, 0.7- 104---244
1-28, 0.8- 107---241
1-29, 0.9- 107---241
1-30, 0.5- 115---241
1-31, 0.8- 116---241
2- 1, 1.1- 107---241
2- 2, 0.4- 102---241
2- 3, 0.4- 87----239


If you look in this thread http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/nu...-you-zone.html , you will find more reporting daily levels and you can see how they vary. At the end of the Jan thread , you will find more.

Philly 02-09-2013 01:02 PM

How much calories do you think I should cut each day? I don't want to be too low but maybe I need to cut some in order to get things moving?!

reddarin 02-09-2013 04:10 PM

Your protein is getting really low at 55g for 129 pounds. It is about .9g/kg. You probably should be closer to 85g and 1.5g/kg. Your ketone readings did not shoot up when you reduced your protein, is that right?

Your calories are probably a bit high for weight loss. Can you try to hit 1500 for a week or so to see how your weight and readings react?

But! You may actually be losing some body fat and it is being masked by fluctuations in your body's water levels. See this post for a good description of this:

http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/nu...l#post16164225

...and get a tape measure. Measuring yourself can be a real sanity saver when the scale isn't budging.

Philly 02-09-2013 04:42 PM

Thanks I did increase up to around 75g for protein when decreasing didn't change anything..

drjlocarb 02-09-2013 05:29 PM

I have to stay lower than my BMR to even think about losing. Your BMR should be 1300-1400 calories, and to maintain is 1600. That should give you a starting point.

Philly 02-10-2013 02:57 AM

Yeah I'm going to cut calories this week and see if that feels better and moves anything?!?!
Appreciate all and any input everyone:)


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