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Old 02-04-2013, 03:06 PM   #1
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Magnesium, Potassium etc

I've been searching but can't seem to find the discussion that was had about magnesium supplementation.

I've been taking 400mg of chelated magnesiumchelated magnesium every day, in addition to other supplements...and accidentally skipped taking all my vitamins yesterday.

Today I went for a long run and uncharacteristically had terrible muscle cramps- the first one was in my shoulder at mile 1, when reaching to adjust my HRM strap on my back. Um, weird. And the about 8 miles into my 15 miler, my legs & bum just went nuts w/ cramping. I've never had that happen before....it really hurt and I was hobbling along and eventually had to call someone to pick me up. Awesome.

At first I thought it was a training issue...then I remembered the shoulder cramp and believe that points to a mineral issue....although its disconcerting to think that missing 1-2 days can affect me that much.

Sooooo... can someone walk me thru how much and what extra stuff I need to make sure I'm taking w/ LCHF? Should I be taking more than 400g of mag?

Thanks!
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Old 02-04-2013, 04:09 PM   #2
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How are you doing on sodium intake? If your sodium isn't right everything else is gonna be screwy mineral-wise.

Jimmy Moore did a great podcast about magnesium with Dr. Robbins. Google 'llvlc 602 jimmy moore magnesium robbins'. He also did a great one about LC supplementing with Dr. Bowden. Google 'atlcx 26 jimmy moore all things vitamin bowden'.

I take 2xRDA, 800mg, a day. Dr. Robbins recommended it on that podcast. If you up your does do it slowly because it probably will upset your stomach if you shoot right to twice the dose. You get used to it though and things calm down.
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Old 02-04-2013, 04:28 PM   #3
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Thanks- headed off to google and listen to teh podcast. I appreciate the reply

This is one of the frustrating aspects of this WOE...not tons of readily available information...especially for runners! LOL
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Old 02-04-2013, 04:50 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reddarin View Post
How are you doing on sodium intake? If your sodium isn't right everything else is gonna be screwy mineral-wise.

Jimmy Moore did a great podcast about magnesium with Dr. Robbins. Google 'llvlc 602 jimmy moore magnesium robbins'. He also did a great one about LC supplementing with Dr. Bowden. Google 'atlcx 26 jimmy moore all things vitamin bowden'.

I take 2xRDA, 800mg, a day. Dr. Robbins recommended it on that podcast. If you up your does do it slowly because it probably will upset your stomach if you shoot right to twice the dose. You get used to it though and things calm down.
BTW, my sodium is normal for this WOE, so definitely on the high side- plus I liberally salt my food. So I don't think that would be problematic? But who knows... something obviously went hay-wire
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Old 02-04-2013, 04:56 PM   #5
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Hi Laria, Red is way more knowledgable than I am, but when I get hit with cramps, Powerade Zero usually helps them quite a bit.
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Old 02-04-2013, 05:17 PM   #6
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I agree, one of those sports drinks ought to fix the acute problem

Are you logging your sodium intake? It might be lower than you think. LC/NK needs about 5 grams of sodium a day from food or added to food (table salt is about 40% sodium by weight).

Potassium, and salt, can be the problem too if you aren't taking enough, particularly since you are losing both through sweat.

And! Are you keeping hydrated? Dr. Eades has a blog post describing his ordeal with agonizing cramps like you are describing. He said that during that time he was driving along and his hands/fingers started cramping so bad he could hardly keep the car on the road. Wow. He discovered that he was dehydrated. He relied on quantity of liquids rather than pure water to keep him hydrated and that was the problem for him. Google 'dr eades blog Tips & tricks for starting (or restarting) low-carb Pt II'. The whole article is really good and he talks about sodium and potassium too. The hydration part is about a third way down on the page.

As far as your body is concerned, salt is numero uno. It throws potassium under the bus if it has to in order to conserve sodium.

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Old 02-04-2013, 06:16 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reddarin View Post
I agree, one of those sports drinks ought to fix the acute problem

Are you logging your sodium intake? It might be lower than you think. LC/NK needs about 5 grams of sodium a day from food or added to food (table salt is about 40% sodium by weight).

Potassium, and salt, can be the problem too if you aren't taking enough, particularly since you are losing both through sweat.

And! Are you keeping hydrated? Dr. Eades has a blog post describing his ordeal with agonizing cramps like you are describing. He said that during that time he was driving along and his hands/fingers started cramping so bad he could hardly keep the car on the road. Wow. He discovered that he was dehydrated. He relied on quantity of liquids rather than pure water to keep him hydrated and that was the problem for him. Google 'dr eades blog Tips & tricks for starting (or restarting) low-carb Pt II'. The whole article is really good and he talks about sodium and potassium too. The hydration part is about a third way down on the page.

As far as your body is concerned, salt is numero uno. It throws potassium under the bus if it has to in order to conserve sodium.

Anythings possible- I really have no idea what went wrong...I haven't tweaked or changed anything from what Ive been doing for months- and have been running fine (literally). Sodium wise, I ate out a lot this past weekend, so had a lot- I've never generally gone over 4g a day. Plus I always drink a TON of water (70+ oz a day), but its possible.

I'll admit I'm stumped in that I have never had this happen- sure I've had times in life where I"m more prone to cramping I suppose, but nothing like this- it was incredibly painful & has me spooked about running (which says a lot) I've never had a time when so many muscles were contracted- like several charlie horses at once- OMG.

Anyway- I digress. Must figure out what is going on... Honestly, didn't glean anything relevant from teh podcast- maybe I missed it though?

I will add more mag, potassium & calcium PLUS stay on top of the sodium and keep the water going. It has to be something in that combo...

Thanks you guys, really. Most of my runner friends are no help because they aren't LCHF, and if they are low-carb they aren't actually aiming for ketosis. Sigh.
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Old 02-04-2013, 07:11 PM   #8
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What part of the country are you from? Something has changed in the last few weeks - the weather. If it is warmer there now than before you are perspiring more now than before even if it is unnoticeable. So more sodium and potassium are exiting your body now.

The water thing seems like a catch-22 to me. You need to drink more to stay hydrated and for whatever the health benefits are for adequate consumption but drinking more means going to the bathroom more which means you are losing more sodium and potassium every trip. It is like Escher's staircase.

The special message for the magnesium podcast was ... it is good stuff heh.

I liked the vitamin one because it sort of narrowed down the important ones and I loved JM's question to Bowden about what he'd want if he were stuck on a desert island.

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Old 02-04-2013, 10:25 PM   #9
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So, what is the appropriate level of sodium intake for NK? I get between 2500-2900 mg/day in my food - is that enough?
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Old 02-05-2013, 05:50 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MerryKate View Post
So, what is the appropriate level of sodium intake for NK? I get between 2500-2900 mg/day in my food - is that enough?
5 grams total MK according to Phinney. So a combination of food items and added sodium.

Here is part of my NK And Salt thread. The 'page 150' I am referring to is the A&S Living book. Phinney talks about the 5 grams daily too.

Quote:
On page 150 or location 2650, Phinney shows low sodium to be the culprit behind abnormal potassium sacrifice. "At some point, when confronted with this low sodium intake plus carbohydrate restriction, most people's defense mechanisms can't maintain normal mineral balances. So the body's next level of defense is for the adrenal gland to secrete the hormone aldosterone, which makes kidney tubular cells excrete potassium in order to conserve sodium. That is, the body wastes some of its intracellular potassium in order to cling to whatever sodium it can. However unless there is copious potassium coming in from the diet, this excess urinary potassium comes from the body's potassium pool inside cells. Two things then happen. First, nerve and muscles cells don't work well, leading to cardia dysrhythmias and muscle cramps. Second, because potassium is an obligate component of lean tissue, the body starts losing muscle even if there's plenty of protein in the diet"
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