High Fat NK 80/15/5 - February Version

[Clueless]

Originally Posted by LOW_CARB_LOLA

I just spent the entire night reading through this entire thread
You guys are awesome!
I wish I could meet you all in person

Enjoy your valentines day!

Love this thread and all the people on here.
Everyone is so nice, helpful and supportive.

[mizzcase]

Originally Posted by reddarin

Could the 4 pounds be due to something else Casey? Um erm um.

I had 186g romaine yesterday in 1 go.. or PMS. I've never seen such a drastic increase in 1 day. Oh well.


Fat fast lasted 7 hours, needed some protein.

Also, congrats on the loss!

PPS: I'm gonna treat the mysterious gain as a freak thing and only change my stats if I'm still up by Sunday.. if I'm under 129.6 however, they will for sure get edited.

[mizzcase]

Oh I forgot to add (I'm so scatterbrained today)..

Last night in bed for the first time since I was a little kid I had AWFUL cramps in my left foot. I had to literally hold my foot in a stiff, straight position for about 20 minutes until they passed.. was so weird. I never, ever ever get cramping when going through ketosis, or in and out of it, so it was so weird.

When I was younger I used to have spells of really bad charley horses in my feet/toes. During these periods, I'd also suffer from my patellar tendon in my knees popping out of place whenever I stood up, and my mom would have to pop it back into place. It was excruciating. The doctor said it was just from growing (???WTH???).. Anyway, since the cramps have started up, I am PRAYING the dislocations won't resume again too.

[Birdie31]

Originally Posted by reddarin

Hello Everyone!

Welcome to February's High Fat 80/15/5 NK thread!

Our goal is a healthy LC high fat macro and mandatory daily protein regimen resulting in a state of Nutritional Ketosis. The ideal ratios would be 80/15/5 F/P/C but the execution is to eat the required protein amount in grams and filling out the rest of your calories in fat with carbs being as low as possible.

So as long as you are eating your required protein, any day that results in 65+% Fat macro is a win. If you can reach 80%+ so much the better but it is only a goal to strive for not a mandate.

Protein

First determine your protein requirements. There are several ways to do it. You need to know the appropriate goal weight for a person of your height and frame size. Your protein is calculated from it so it is important.

Per Dr. Phinney in The Art and Science of Low Carb Living and in subsequent podcasts the appropriate protein range is between 1.5 and 2.0 grams per kg of ideal weight. The formula looks like this:

Convert your ideal weight in pounds to kg with (ideal_weight/2.2) then multiply it by 1.5 - (ideal_weight/2.2)*1.5 to get your protein grams goal.

If you miss your protein goal for the day you can see how far off you are using this equation: actual_grams/(ideal_weight/2.2).

Be aware that there are few if any overt signs of protein deficiency until there is a crisis situation with your body. So. Take care not to eat too little protein. Dr. Phinney said that .8g/kg_ideal_weight is too little for LC.

Adequate protein consumption protects your lean body mass - essentially, everything that is not fat is LBM. Eating too little protein can result in .25 to 1 pound of LBM loss a day!

Calories

Dr. Phinney gives a range of 30-35kCal per goal kg weight. He states that 35kCal is the norm and 30kCal is for a very sedentary individual.

Phinney's formula for daily calories: ((goal_weight/2.2)*30) or ((goal_weight/2.2)*35).

So, if your goal weight is 150 then (150/2.2)*35 = 2386. ~2400 calories is what a normally active person that has a correct weight of 150 pounds would burn daily.

Once you know your protein grams and have an idea of your daily calorie goal you can work on getting there with a combination of protein and fat.

On calories, consider this post if you think that you have to have very low calories to lose weight.

Very low calorie diets will result in LBM loss. Lose your body fat not your LBM by keeping your calories up.

Establish what you should be eating at goal weight and start there. Work your way down slowly if you must but the best way to do it is to start high and work downwards to minimize LBM loss.

Another issue with calories concerns having too much of a caloric deficit. Too big of a gap between what you are expending and what you are consuming stresses the body and a stressed body fights fat loss. Your metabolism slows down to accommodate the big gap in energy intake/output. Not to mention the stress hormone cortisol that also acts to hold on to fat.

Macros

Macro ratios are a valuable tool but they can be very misleading because relative percentages are deceptive. The three macros and the fourth control (calories) form a rubber band that can stretch into some surprising shapes but still look like a well formulated LC regimen when it is not.

You know your protein and you know what Phinney has to say about calories so how do you get your macros?

Phinney states that NK is reached with 65-85% Fat / ideal protein consumption / under 50g Total Carbs a day.

Going with Phinney's daily caloric expenditure of 35*kg and using our 150 pound example:

(150/2.2)*35 = 2386 calories.
(150/2.2)*1.5 = 102g protein.

Protein is 4 calories per gram and fat is 9 calories per gram so...

(102*4)= 408
408/2386= 17% for our protein macro percentage.

If we commit all remaining calories to fat... 2386-408 = 1978 -> 1978/9 = 220 grams of fat. Stay with me.

How much, as a percentage, is that of total calories? 1978/2386 = ~83%

Right now your macros look like this: 83/17/0

30g of total carbs looks like this:

(30*4)=120/2386 = 5% of 2386

So you've used 528 calories and you have 1858 left for a fat macro of:

(1858/9)=206 grams and (1858/2386)= 77% fat macro. 77/17/5.

If you use 30kCal/kg the same protein and carb grams create this macro ratio - 74/20/6

Macros II - Calories II

Remember that macro percentages are relative to calories consumed. That means that they are skewed and very deceptive if the calories are low or high for *your* protein grams goal.

For example, 74/20/6 looks excellent if the calories are right for you and you ate the goal amount of protein. But if you can have the exact same macro at 1200 calories and be super low on protein at about 58% of protein grams goal. Even if you get your protein grams in (408 calories), at 1200 calories you are at a 50% calorie deficit for an active person that actually weighs our hypothetical 150 pounds. Worse yet, your relative caloric deficit will be greater because you are not at the goal weight we are using for the calculations. Like so: current weight 190 and goal weight 150 - your relative caloric deficit is 60%.

Fat

A quick word about Fat. Not all Fat is created equal. Soy oil is not a good fat - it is a highly polyunsaturated fat and you should avoid high PUFAs oils. Use mono-unsaturated and saturated fats. Coconut oil, real butter, olive oil, animal fats, etc. If you aren't sure about the oil google it. Don't sabotage yourself by assuming what the Standard American Diet considers a 'healthy fat' is actually a healthy fat for LC.

Food Logging

There are several really good food loggers. Direct linking is not possible per the TOS of LCF so just google around. Try at least 3, using them at the same time, so you can get a feel for which one suits you best. Most of them have smart phone companion apps if that is important to you.

You really have to log your food if you are going to be successful at the challenge of 80/15/5. That doesn't make it a ball and chain that you are forever saddled with, but your short term goal is virtually undoable without accurately logging what you eat.

Even if you are doing well without logging your food log history can be the lynch pin to figuring out why you are stuck at some point in the future.

Daily/Weekly Weigh-Ins

Do you weigh in daily or weekly? Totally up to you! I weigh in daily because I like the constant feedback. *BUT*, if you choose to do daily weigh-ins you have to accept that daily weights are a snapshot in time only. They are interesting data points but that is all and they are meaningless without the context of time. In other words, weigh in daily if you want but pay attention to the trend not the individual snapshot of weight.

Consider the fact that per Phinney your body maintains about a 4 pound water weight window. Zero to 4 pounds of liquids sloshing around inside you. See this post for a pretty good explanation about this window and how it affects weigh-ins daily, weekly, even monthly.

Tape Measure

You should measure yourself periodically. It can really make a difference when the scale refuses to budge by showing that you are losing inches despite what the scale says. If there is no weight loss on the scale for a week but you measure and can see that you've lost an inch here or there it will stop you from wildly tweaking what you are doing when what you are doing really is working.

Links of Interest

January's 80/15/5 thread.

December's 80/15/5 thread.

A sodium thread I created.

Long Term Stalls podcast with Jimmy Moore and Dr. Phinney. I made a list of the things covered in the podcast with the time it is located at within the recording. It isn't all inclusive but it is thorough.

Phillip has a great post about how cholesterol LDLC is calculated here.

Sodium

Low carb - it is not a low sodium way of eating or living. You *must* get your sodium in or your body will suffer. It might suffer silently for a long time before it finally breaks. Or it might express itself as agonizing leg cramps. Those cramps are caused by dehydration and/or a potassium deficiency but if you are a low sodium consumer then your sodium deficiency is contributing to your potassium loss and dehydration. The body throws potassium overboard if it has to choose between potassium and sodium. That is how important sodium is to your body. Phinney advises 5 Grams of sodium daily! That is a lot of sodium. Fear not! Unless you are going out of your way to eat low sodium you are probably getting 2 to 4 grams in your food every day. A little extra use of the salt shaker will fix up most people just fine. It is worth taking a look at how much sodium you are getting if you use a food logger. Table salt is not one for one on sodium grams. Google for the conversion 'how much sodium in table salt'. If you've been a casual low sodium person then you should pay careful attention to what you are eating and shun your former salt scoffing ways.

Consider whatever health conditions you might have when contemplating how to address the sodium issue with your way of eating.

The body will cannabalize LBM for potassium if it has to. So, low sodium -> sacrifice potassium -> rob lean tissue for potassium -> poor LC results.

Supplements

If you aren't supplementing start now. Here are a few tips on it to get you started.

Most Americans, probably most people worldwide, are magnesium deficient. Magnesium is a wonder mineral that has far ranging benefits. For LC'rs, on top of all of the other wonderful things it does, it also helps with regularity. It is a must. Go easy! Don't go full dose all at once. Ramp up to whatever dose you set for yourself. Start at 1/4 to 1/2 the RDA and slowly go up over a week or two's time. If you react to your dose don't panic. It will pass. Lower the dose and take a little more time. I currently take 2xRDA. A good strategy is to buy a kind that is not a single pill dose so you can tailor your dosing.

Google 'LLVLC-ep-602-morley-robbins', it should be the first hit, for an excellent free podcast about this very important mineral.

Potassium. Dr. Eades of Protein Power advises 4 of the 99mg pills while on induction and then 2 of the 99mg pills, I believe, afterwards. If you are experiencing cramps don't overlook water intake. Dehydration causes awful cramps too. The best thing is pure water. Even if your sodium is right you probably should still supplement with potassium because LC is a water shedding way of eating and that is where a lot of potassium (and sodium) exits the body.

Multi-vitamin. I doubt there are many LC'rs not taking a multivitamin but if you happen to be one, go to the store now and buy some. Really.

The rest. There are others that you probably should be taking daily too. Google 'atlcx-26-dr-jonny-bowden', it should be the first hit, for a free podcast that is excellent about supplements in general for LC. Jimmy Moore asks the fantastic question 'what are your trapped on a desert island choices'.

Notes

Join in the conversation any time. Feel free to ask any questions you have. We are all happy to help you. Lurkers are welcome too.

so if I want to weigh 130 how much fat do i need to intake?

[rubidoux]

Originally Posted by mizzcase

Good morning all! I ended up eating protein to my heart's content last night-- about 150g worth in one sitting. It satisfied that urge. But, I woke up this morning 4 pounds (yes, FOUR POUNDS) heavier!!

So I guess we got the answer to "Is Casey sensitive to too much protein?"

Will be fat fasting today to kick this body back into ketosis, cause I'm feeling like I knocked myself out.

Good news-- I never wanna eat protein again now that I know it has this effect on my body. I mean, I will to preserve LBM, but no more than 75g!

Terrible! It's gotta be a lot of water, though. And cramps are the worst! You poor thing!

Originally Posted by reddarin

Weigh-in this morning ... 202.7

Awesome! You're just going down, down, down.

I'm up to 189.0. Sigh... My calories were high yesterday at 1862. Sadly I woke up feeling hungry this morning. I don't think I did anything to knock myself out of ketosis. My fat was at 81%. But I'm pushing on...

[Deb34]

Why the scales can lie.

here are the quotes from the article that save my sanity daily at scale-time.

A biologist at Berkeley shared something very revealing on the low-carb BBS system about 4 years ago that helps us all through the erratic weight fluctuations you invariably encounter: Fat cells are resilient, stubborn little creatures that do not want to give up their actual cell volume. Over a period of weeks, maybe months of "proper dieting", each of your fat cells may have actually lost a good percentage of the actual fat contained in those cells. But the fat cells themselves, stubborn little guys, replace that lost fat with water to retain their size. That is, instead of shrinking to match the reduced amount of fat in the cell, they stay the same size! Result - you weigh the same, look the same, maybe even gained some scale weight, even though you have actually lost some serious fat. The good news is that this water replacement is temporary. It's a defensive measure to keep your body from changing too rapidly. It allows the fat cell to counter the rapid change in cell composition, allowing for a slow, gradual reduction in cell size. The problem is, most people are frustrated with their apparent lack of success, assume they have lost nothing, and stop dieting.

However, if you give those fat cells some time, like 4-6 months, and ignore the scale weight fluctuations, your real weight/shape will slowly begin to show. The moral of the story - be patient! Your body is changing even if the number on the scale isn't.

Initially, the body jettisons the water attached to the glycogen stores that we diligently deplete to get into ketosis...The body senses this lack and sirens start shrieking: Warning! Warning! Losing water... new thing...got to get back to the status quo! Brain tells body to produce and release that vasopressin anti-diuretic hormone....more water is retained, and no weight loss noticed. Fat loss is still occurring, MAYBE even 2 pounds per week, because ketosis is firmly established and appetite suppression is in effect...but water retention is hiding that continuing fat loss. The body is preventing dehydration with this mechanism, and that's a *good* thing.

Which is why the mantra: Water retention masks fat loss (repeated frequently to oneself) is helpful. max weight loss runs about 2 pounds per week...under extremely optimal conditions... or 1% of body weight (whichever is the lower number)... So don't use the scale as an excuse to undermine your progress. Even when the scale is in a stall, fat loss can be occurring.

Water makes up about 60% of total body mass...the less water you drink, the more of it your body retains. If you are even slightly dehydrated your body will hang onto it's water supplies with a vengeance, possibly causing the number on the scale to inch upward. The solution is to drink plenty of water.

I will add my own note to this: make sure your electrolytes are balanced; sodium, potassium etc. Just drinking plain water does not replace the electroytes lost through dehydration.

Another factor that can influence the scale is glycogen. Think of glycogen as a fuel tank full of stored carbohydrate. Some glycogen is stored in the liver and some is stored the muscles themselves. This energy reserve weighs more than a pound and it's packaged with 3-4 pounds of water when it's stored. Your glycogen supply will shrink during the day if you fail to take in enough carbohydrates.

As the glycogen supply shrinks you will experience a small imperceptible increase in appetite and your body will restore this fuel reserve along with it's associated water. It's normal to experience glycogen and water weight shifts of up to 2 pounds per day even with no changes in your calorie intake or activity level. These fluctuations have nothing to do with fat loss, although they can make for some unnecessarily dramatic weigh-ins if you're prone to obsessing over the number on the scale.

Otherwise rational people also tend to forget about the actual weight of the food they eat. For this reason, it's wise to weigh yourself first thing in the morning before you've had anything to eat or drink. Swallowing a bunch of food before you step on the scale is no different than putting a bunch of rocks in your pocket. The 5 pounds that you gain right after a huge dinner is not fat. It's the actual weight of everything you've had to eat and drink. The added weight of the meal will be gone several hours later when you've finished digesting it.

the scale's sneakiest attribute. It doesn't just weigh fat. It weighs muscle, bone, water, internal organs and all. When you lose "weight," that doesn't necessarily mean that you've lost fat. In fact, the scale has no way of telling you what you've lost (or gained). Losing muscle is nothing to celebrate. Muscle is a metabolically active tissue. The more muscle you have the more calories your body burns, even when you're just sitting around. That's one reason why a fit, active person is able to eat considerably more food than the dieter who is unwittingly destroying muscle tissue.

Robin Landis, author of "Body Fueling," compares fat and muscles to feathers and gold. One pound of fat is like a big fluffy, lumpy bunch of feathers, and one pound of muscle is small and valuable like a piece of gold. Obviously, you want to lose the dumpy, bulky feathers and keep the sleek beautiful gold. The problem with the scale is that it doesn't differentiate between the two. It can't tell you how much of your total body weight is lean tissue and how much is fat.

Hope this gives anxiety relief to some here who are beating themselves up over that .2 of a pound they gained this morning!

[reddarin]

Originally Posted by Birdie31

so if I want to weigh 130 how much fat do i need to intake?

Hi Birdie

(130/2.2)*35 = 2068 calories
(130/2.2)*30 = 1772 calories

(130/2.2)*1.5 = 88 grams protein
(130/2.2)*2.0 = 118 grams protein

You are only about 8 pounds from goal so we'll start your calories off a little lower than otherwise and use 1600 calories for a starting point.

We'll use the 1.5g/kg number for your protein.

88g protein [protein is 4 cals per gram] = 352 calories protein

1600-352 = 1248 calories left.

1248/9 [fat is 9 cals per gram] = 138g fat.

So 88g of protein and 138g of fat. But your carbs calories would be taken from your available fat calories. Lets go with 30g total carbs. Carbs are 4 calories per gram.

88g protein = 352 calories
30g carbs = 120 calories

...which leaves 1128 calories for fat or 125g of fat.

These are all starting point numbers. You may need to adjust up or even down a little.

[reddarin]

Originally Posted by LOW_CARB_LOLA

I just spent the entire night reading through this entire thread
You guys are awesome!
I wish I could meet you all in person

Enjoy your valentines day!

Happy Valentines Day to you and everyone

[reddarin]

Originally Posted by mizzcase

Last night in bed for the first time since I was a little kid I had AWFUL cramps in my left foot.

Now that is very interesting. A big water weight gain and cramps. How is your sodium level? Do you track it with your logger? Drink 20 cups of bouillon. When you get back from the ER let us know if you had any cramps.

[reddarin]

Originally Posted by rubidoux

I'm up to 189.0. Sigh... My calories were high yesterday at 1862. Sadly I woke up feeling hungry this morning. I don't think I did anything to knock myself out of ketosis. My fat was at 81%. But I'm pushing on...

Could it be meds?

[rubidoux]

Originally Posted by reddarin

Could it be meds?

Well, the only thing I take is insulin and *in theory* it shouldn't be any different than the insulin that you all have. BUT of course insulin is a fat storage hormone, so it can certainly make you gain fat. I don't think that's what's going on right now bc I've been really cautious with it and not allowing my blood sugar to go low. A sure way to gain is to do too much insulin so that you have to feed it, but I haven't allowed that to happen at all. A lot of type I's have multiple low blood sugars a week (like upwards of 3) that they have to treat by eating carbs. I have had one in the last 39 days. And it was pretty mild and I just had six strawberries and was fine. And that was weeks ago. So, I don't think it's the insulin exactly. I will say though that I have had doctors tell me that it's nearly impossible to lose weight if you're taking insulin. There are a couple of other type I's here that have lost, though, so it's not actually impossible.

I think I'm just gonna sit tight and try to hit 1500 cals and keep my macros in line... for a while longer. I'm not big on patience. I need to practice, I think.

[mizzcase]

Hey red, I drink bouillon every day, liberally salt everything, etc. Just think it was a freak thing, felt fine today..

Well, for anyone that has read my posts in these threads, they know I feel "eh" about coconut oil. Hate it in coffee, hate frying with, hate it in fat bombs, hate the mouthfeel/texture overall. I had no idea what to do with this huge jar of Nutiva in my cabinet...

For dinner tonight I was craving a protein shake, and I thought wth, let me throw in some coconut oil. Oh my gosh, I wish I was exaggerating when I say I'm only going to be eating protein shakes for every meal the next 3 days. So good, so good. Also, those Atkins chicken and broccoli alfredo meals are good, but don't think I will be buying them again. 1. They are expensive. 2. The chicken is kind of sketchy tasting. 3. I scarfed 2 down for lunch. Whoops.

Here was today:

B: coffee w/ 1T HWC, chicken bouillon w/ 3T HWC
S: 1 oz mac nuts
L: 2 Atkins chicken and broccoli alfredo meals
D: Optimum Casein chocolate protein shake w/ 1 cup almond milk & 30g coconut oil

Powerade Zero too!

1516 calories/120 fat/30 carbs (18 net)/82 protein
70%F/22%P/8%C

We'll see what the scale says tomorrow, didn't drink much water today. I also lifted, so I'm okay with the highish protein.

[reddarin]

Numbers and log for today.

Calories: 1,960

Fat: 163
Pro: 100
Car: 29

74/21/5

Breakfast: Coffee, CO, HWC.
Lunch: Eggs.
Dinner: Soup again! [ground beef, cabbage, rotel, bouillon]
Snack: Pickles, HWC float.

[Clueless]

Todays Log

Calories 1591

Fat 118 69%
Pro 98 26%
carb 21 5%

Breakfast HWC and CO/ Coffee
Lunch Bacon and eggs
dinner deer meat steaks/ zuchinni /green beans
snack 85% cocoa

I didn't get hungry this morning. I also realized I wasn't using anywhere near a whole TBSP od CO in my coffee in the mornings. I got outthe measuring spoon and scale. 1 TBSP is alot.

[Clueless]

Darin, I jealous, I want soup.
I do wish we could figure how to make it was a little lower in carbs, but still so good.

[mizzcase]

Originally Posted by Clueless

Todays Log

Calories 1591

Fat 118 69%
Pro 98 26%
carb 21 5%

Breakfast HWC and CO/ Coffee
Lunch Bacon and eggs
dinner deer meat steaks/ zuchinni /green beans
snack 85% cocoa

I didn't get hungry this morning. I also realized I wasn't using anywhere near a whole TBSP od CO in my coffee in the mornings. I got outthe measuring spoon and scale. 1 TBSP is alot.

A T of coconut oil seems much more substantial to me when its solid.

[reddarin]

Originally Posted by Clueless

Darin, I jealous, I want soup.
I do wish we could figure how to make it was a little lower in carbs, but still so good.

I had to run by the store today and there was some marked down ground beef. I was like 'aha! Soup! heh

With the soup my total carbs for the day were 29g. I really like keeping it under 20g if I can but it is so easy and tasty.

Tomorrow will probably be a chicken day and I think I'll saute up some more of that head of cabbage in bacon grease.

[reddarin]

I weigh out 2oz in my coffee when I make a ~24oz thermos of it. And about 3oz of HWC. All told about 700 calories for morning coffee.

[rubidoux]

Well, I was so hungry today! I'm all over the place, apparently. Last week I was so not hungry... I wish I could go back. So, I ate during about a six hour window early in the day, finished by about 5 pm, which is different for me. And I've been white knuckling it since. I had plenty of food, so I'm going to try to make it until tomorrow without. OTOH, I'm thinking maybe I need to not worry about calories and just try to eat clean and keep my macros right and see what happens.

Here's my numbers:

155.00 fat
12.05 carbs
74.00 protein
1744 calories

Other than being high in calories, I think the numbers are pretty good.

I had two servings of my soupless taco soup (wow is that stuff high in calories!) and one fat bomb (1T kerrygold, 1TCO [by weight] and 1/2 T peanut butter).

[mizzcase]

Good job, Jayne! Soupless taco soup? Got a recipe for that?

[mizzcase]

Good morning all, weight was down 2.5 pounds today, so I'm taking that 4 pound bump up as a freak accident. Still another pound from where I was..


The website I use to count my calories and track my macros has been down all morning (phone app too).. and I am REALLY anxious about it. Feel like I shouldn't eat if I can't log it. :-/

[reddarin]

Weigh-in this morning ... 202.6. Down a tiny bit. Man I can't weight to get back under 200.

[reddarin]

Originally Posted by mizzcase

Good morning all, weight was down 2.5 pounds today, so I'm taking that 4 pound bump up as a freak accident. Still another pound from where I was..


The website I use to count my calories and track my macros has been down all morning (phone app too).. and I am REALLY anxious about it. Feel like I shouldn't eat if I can't log it. :-/

Congrats!!

Man I hate it when my logger site is down! I have to keep notes and hope I get it all straight. The worst thing is not being able to sort of plan out the day by adding stuff to see how macros work out with this and that.

[reddarin]

Originally Posted by rubidoux

Well, I was so hungry today! I'm all over the place, apparently. Last week I was so not hungry... I wish I could go back. So, I ate during about a six hour window early in the day, finished by about 5 pm, which is different for me. And I've been white knuckling it since. I had plenty of food, so I'm going to try to make it until tomorrow without. OTOH, I'm thinking maybe I need to not worry about calories and just try to eat clean and keep my macros right and see what happens.

Here's my numbers:

155.00 fat
12.05 carbs
74.00 protein
1744 calories

It is not a bad plan Jayne. You need to recover from your illness and restricting calories won't help with recovery.

There is a silver lining though. At your current weight (as opposed to your goal weight), your probably burning at minimum 2200 to 2500 calories a day. So even eating 1700 calories should still be a deficit compared to actual expenditure. Given the nature of fat cells, water retention, et. al., the scale may not move or go up a little but the trajectory would still be downwards over time sans metabolic issues and meds.

[Clueless]

Originally Posted by reddarin

Weigh-in this morning ... 202.6. Down a tiny bit. Man I can't weight to get back under 200.

Congrats!!

[Clueless]

Originally Posted by mizzcase

Good morning all, weight was down 2.5 pounds today, so I'm taking that 4 pound bump up as a freak accident. Still another pound from where I was..


The website I use to count my calories and track my macros has been down all morning (phone app too).. and I am REALLY anxious about it. Feel like I shouldn't eat if I can't log it. :-/

Good deal, that 4 lbs was a fluke

[rubidoux]

Originally Posted by mizzcase

Good job, Jayne! Soupless taco soup? Got a recipe for that?

I used Cheri's recipe but I didn't have any broth in the house, so I just didn't add any. It looked like slop but tasted great and pretty satisfying, a real stick to your ribs kinda meal. I think next time I'm gonna omit the tomatoes and spice and throw in some cheddar and a little mustard, like hamburger helper w/o the chemicals or noodles.

Originally Posted by reddarin

Weigh-in this morning ... 202.6. Down a tiny bit. Man I can't weight to get back under 200.

I always feel so much better getting under that 200 mark, too. You're so close!

Originally Posted by reddarin

It is not a bad plan Jayne. You need to recover from your illness and restricting calories won't help with recovery.

There is a silver lining though. At your current weight (as opposed to your goal weight), your probably burning at minimum 2200 to 2500 calories a day. So even eating 1700 calories should still be a deficit compared to actual expenditure. Given the nature of fat cells, water retention, et. al., the scale may not move or go up a little but the trajectory would still be downwards over time sans metabolic issues and meds.

I hope that's true! I'm feeling patient today, so we'll see.

[Subaroo62]

Originally Posted by reddarin

Hi Birdie

(130/2.2)*35 = 2068 calories
(130/2.2)*30 = 1772 calories

(130/2.2)*1.5 = 88 grams protein
(130/2.2)*2.0 = 118 grams protein

You are only about 8 pounds from goal so we'll start your calories off a little lower than otherwise and use 1600 calories for a starting point.

We'll use the 1.5g/kg number for your protein.

88g protein [protein is 4 cals per gram] = 352 calories protein

1600-352 = 1248 calories left.

1248/9 [fat is 9 cals per gram] = 138g fat.

So 88g of protein and 138g of fat. But your carbs calories would be taken from your available fat calories. Lets go with 30g total carbs. Carbs are 4 calories per gram.

88g protein = 352 calories
30g carbs = 120 calories

...which leaves 1128 calories for fat or 125g of fat.

These are all starting point numbers. You may need to adjust up or even down a little.

I'm taking this advice and adjusting to my own weight and goals. My question is, do you count net carbs or total carbs?

I've become addicted to reading and researching this WOE and have been spending a lot of time reading on this forum.

It's so nice that there are people like you, reddarin, taking the time to share, educate and inform. Especially for newbies like me.

[reddarin]

Originally Posted by Subaroo62

I'm taking this advice and adjusting to my own weight and goals. My question is, do you count net carbs or total carbs?

I've become addicted to reading and researching this WOE and have been spending a lot of time reading on this forum.

It's so nice that there are people like you, reddarin, taking the time to share, educate and inform. Especially for newbies like me.

Thank you

Carbs are always total. It is very different from the way LC is usually approached regarding carbs. The top limit is set by your individual body's reaction to carbs but generically speaking that is 50g and less, a lot less for some people, to achieve and maintain NK.

There is no carb ladder with NK.

Nothing beats the source - The Art and Science of Low Carb Living by Phinney & Volek.

Also, Phinney has done two podcasts with Jimmy Moore that are very informative. Google 'jimmy moore phinney' and you'll find them. One was done with the book was released and the other more recently about long term stalls but it is chock full of good NK stuff.

Youtube has an interview Phinney did:

Low Carb Living - YouTube

This thread is a compilation of all the stuff I've learned since starting back in September. I approach it as a learn as we go type thing.

[zgirl]

Happy Friday!

Originally Posted by reddarin

Weigh-in this morning ... 202.6. Down a tiny bit. Man I can't weight to get back under 200.

Congrats - almost there! Was the pun intended, by the way (weigh)?

Originally Posted by mizzcase

Good morning all, weight was down 2.5 pounds today, so I'm taking that 4 pound bump up as a freak accident. Still another pound from where I was..


The website I use to count my calories and track my macros has been down all morning (phone app too).. and I am REALLY anxious about it. Feel like I shouldn't eat if I can't log it. :-/

Glad things are settling down for you. It's always so disconcerting when there is a random jump. That's why I stopped weighing every day... I just couldn't handle the fluctuations!

Originally Posted by Subaroo62

I've become addicted to reading and researching this WOE and have been spending a lot of time reading on this forum.

It's so nice that there are people like you, reddarin, taking the time to share, educate and inform. Especially for newbies like me.

Welcome, Subaroo! I'm pretty new myself, though like you, I was reading for a long time before I finally posted. Agreed that there are so many helpful voices here


An update on the bouillon front - when I was drinking 2 cups a day, I noticed that I was even more swollen at night, so I cut it down to one cup yesterday. And I hardly had any water retention this morning, so it looks like I found my happy balance! I will drink one cup today and hope it continues. Also weekly weigh-in has me 2 pounds down from last week. I'm not really trying to lose weight, so I'm not quite sure how I feel about this, but at least I know my macros must be good.

Anyway, keep it up everyone, and hope you all had a great Valentine's Day. Any exciting weekend plans?