February Nutritional Ketosis...Are you in the zone?

[UnstrungHarp]

Checking in to say that I still have no word on the blood test results, although I called the doctor's office last Friday and today. They take my name and number, say they'll call back after they've pulled my chart, and then nothing. Very frustrating...I just want them to acknowledge that the results are even there, and then fax them to me. I will handle the interpretation myself or go to an endocrinologist.

I've had consistently high fasting ketones the last few days (3+) and I seem to be sticking at my new low weight of 142.2. The weirdest thing is my extreme lack of appetite, even first thing in the morning. For as long as I can remember, I have been someone who wakes up absolutely starving. Since starting NK, my coffee with HWC has helped me put off eating until 9:30 or 10...but the past three days I've been waking up totally not hungry, and that persists all day long. I already went through a phase of noticeably reduced hunger after first adapting to NK months ago, but it wasn't as "severe" as this. I am not complaining, although it does feel weird and makes eating seem more like a chore than something enjoyable. The really unfortunate thing is that I have been feeling way more tired/lethargic than usual and SO COLD all the time. I can tell a difference psychologically, too...more prone to feeling sad, having negative thoughts, easily becoming emotional. It's so odd that my greatest success with NK so far (lowest weight and highest ketones) is being accompanied by all these undesirable side effects.

I think I'll feel better once I get those blood test results and can figure out the next steps.

[clackley]

Lindsay, don't forget to get some chicken broth in - it should help with the side effects.

[MerryKate]

Lindsay, everything you're describing sounds like hypothyroidism. My sister has been living with it since she was 13, so I asked her for some pointers:

1. Make sure you're getting enough iodine - kelp or seaweed are great sources, and if you can't stand the taste, kelp comes in pills.

2. Cutting out canola oil and limiting your cruciferious vegetables will also help, as they both lower your thyroid output.

3. Coconut oil increases thyroid activity in some people, so it's a good thing to add to your diet.

Hope that helps get you through the rough patch until you hear from your doctor. If your test results are on the low-normal side, try all of the above and see if it gets you back in the normal range. If you're officially hypothyroid, thank God there is an inexpensive medication for it.

[clackley]

I have also heard people claim that feeling cold precipitates a weight loss.... seems possible to me.

My ketones today were 1.9 and b.g. 5.6.

[BigRunner]

Weight: 195.5 > 195 > 195 > 197 > 197 > 194> 197> 194> 195> 195
BK: 3.0 > 3.3 > 2.4 > 2.5 > 1.8 > 2.3 > 1.9 > 1.6> 2.4> 1.7

Created an account on a diet tracking site. Going to try and dial in the ratios/calories as necessary and try to get this thing moving again.

[UnstrungHarp]

Originally Posted by clackley

Lindsay, don't forget to get some chicken broth in - it should help with the side effects.

I drink some chicken broth every day, and it seems to make me feel better for a while. Sometimes I think it might be the fact that it's hot, and drinking a hot beverage warms me up! I kind of get the same feeling from drinking a couple of cups of decaf coffee in the afternoon.

I'm happy to report another loss today: 141.8. That makes my total weight loss approximately 6 pounds since November 1 (3.5 months of NK). Ketones dropped from 3.2 yesterday morning to 2.5 today, and I actually felt a slight twinge of hunger while fixing my coffee this morning (but it's gone now, ha ha).

[UnstrungHarp]

Originally Posted by MerryKate

Lindsay, everything you're describing sounds like hypothyroidism. My sister has been living with it since she was 13, so I asked her for some pointers:

1. Make sure you're getting enough iodine - kelp or seaweed are great sources, and if you can't stand the taste, kelp comes in pills.

2. Cutting out canola oil and limiting your cruciferious vegetables will also help, as they both lower your thyroid output.

3. Coconut oil increases thyroid activity in some people, so it's a good thing to add to your diet.

Hope that helps get you through the rough patch until you hear from your doctor. If your test results are on the low-normal side, try all of the above and see if it gets you back in the normal range. If you're officially hypothyroid, thank God there is an inexpensive medication for it.

Thanks for the info!! I don't know how much iodine is in my diet each day, but I get some in my multivitamin (150 mcg "from kelp," it says). I do have canola oil in my salad dressing, but I don't use much of it on a daily basis. I can try a different brand, though. The greens I eat are in the form of dark green lettuce and sometimes green beans...rarely any cruciferous veggies, although I do occasionally eat a little broccoli (once a week, if that). I quit the coconut oil a while back in the effort to get my fat grams down and because I think it was causing bathroom issues, even though I was trying to use just a little each day in my scrambled eggs.

What is weird is that I wake up each morning feeling hot, rather than cold....I keep reading that usually people that are hypothyroid have low body temperature upon waking. I do wear very warm pajamas and we have lots of blankets on the bed. The cold really doesn't hit me until later in the morning, after the effects of my morning coffee have worn off. Then, I'm shivering under an electric blanket the rest of the day (or thinking wistfully of the electric blanket if I'm too busy with work). And according to my husband and kids, the house is not that cold! I wonder if that corresponds with hypothyroid symptoms in spite of waking up hot every day.

[clackley]

Originally Posted by UnstrungHarp

Thanks for the info!! I don't know how much iodine is in my diet each day, but I get some in my multivitamin (150 mcg "from kelp," it says). I do have canola oil in my salad dressing, but I don't use much of it on a daily basis. I can try a different brand, though. The greens I eat are in the form of dark green lettuce and sometimes green beans...rarely any cruciferous veggies, although I do occasionally eat a little broccoli (once a week, if that). I quit the coconut oil a while back in the effort to get my fat grams down and because I think it was causing bathroom issues, even though I was trying to use just a little each day in my scrambled eggs.

What is weird is that I wake up each morning feeling hot, rather than cold....I keep reading that usually people that are hypothyroid have low body temperature upon waking. I do wear very warm pajamas and we have lots of blankets on the bed. The cold really doesn't hit me until later in the morning, after the effects of my morning coffee have worn off. Then, I'm shivering under an electric blanket the rest of the day (or thinking wistfully of the electric blanket if I'm too busy with work). And according to my husband and kids, the house is not that cold! I wonder if that corresponds with hypothyroid symptoms in spite of waking up hot every day.

Your symptoms sound similar to mine. My hands and feet are warm upon rising but as the morning wears on, they get cold and stay that way. I hardly notice anymore as it is just a fact of life for me.

I do think that being in ketosis has something to do with the morning 'warm' extremities. I also have a higher b.g. level 1rst thing and am sure that is interconnected in some way. I always remind myself that ranges, symptoms and generally all things are going to be different by the simple nature that those are framed around people who are not in n.k. and that in and of itself is a big difference.

[shelley]

Originally Posted by MerryKate

Lindsay, everything you're describing sounds like hypothyroidism. My sister has been living with it since she was 13, so I asked her for some pointers:

1. Make sure you're getting enough iodine - kelp or seaweed are great sources, and if you can't stand the taste, kelp comes in pills.

2. Cutting out canola oil and limiting your cruciferious vegetables will also help, as they both lower your thyroid output.

3. Coconut oil increases thyroid activity in some people, so it's a good thing to add to your diet.

Hope that helps get you through the rough patch until you hear from your doctor. If your test results are on the low-normal side, try all of the above and see if it gets you back in the normal range. If you're officially hypothyroid, thank God there is an inexpensive medication for it.

Hi Merry Kate......I'm guessing that your sister does not have Hashimoto's Hypothyroidism. And iodine/kelp might be helpful to her situation.

But I have to disagree with your sister that this is something to be done as helpful unless tested with the antibody test. I am fearful of even writing this post because last time I made a comment about thyroid, I sort of got "put in my place" by a couple people who took offense to what I wrote.

Thyroid and adrenals has been a passion of mine. Took me 3 years to get healthy and I have read every book and forum and have been to multiple doctors over the years. I am well optimized and think of myself as extremely knowledgeable when it comes to thyroid/testing/reading results, etc.

The majority of women have Hashimoto's hypothyroidism and iodine is one of the worst things for that type. I am only writing to "protect" those who are unaware of the issues with iodine in someone diagnosed with Hashi's. Please be tested for the antibodies to see if you have Hashi's before adding in any iodine/kelp, etc. It is not your friend if you have that type.

I don't intend to pick a fight or cause problems, which is why I stopped posting after the last situation, but I feel this is important enough to make sure that people do not run to add in iodine or kelp with the idea it will help them. They definitely need to know what *type* of hypothyroidism they have before adding in iodine/kelp. (I do NOT have Hashi's, but most of the people with issues do, and many have never been tested for the antibodies and don't even know if they do or don't).

#2...cruciferous veggies are okay if they are steamed/cooked and not eaten raw...or the doc changes the RX to allow for them being eaten raw by raising the dose.

Canola oil is nasty for any human body.

#3 There is someone on the forums that says rubbing CO on the throat/thyroid will help cure it. Many believe this due to what she said (and quoted a well known person about this who did NOT ever say that!). It's simply not true that CO will replace a hormone the body is deficient in by rubbing the oil on the skin. but you'll get lovely soft skin!!! :-)

I am truly sorry if this offends people...i.e., those who were offended last time I offered my knowledge on thyroid issues. I just don't want people to start taking "stuff" based on something they read and have not thoroughly checked out. At least hopefully this will keep someone from ingesting something that will make them worse, or go get their antibodies tested to know for sure.

I'm all about helping and not hurting anyone......OK...I'm off my thyroid bandwagon now and will go back to reading and not posting.

[UnstrungHarp]

Originally Posted by shelley

I am truly sorry if this offends people...i.e., those who were offended last time I offered my knowledge on thyroid issues. I just don't want people to start taking "stuff" based on something they read and have not thoroughly checked out. At least hopefully this will keep someone from ingesting something that will make them worse, or go get their antibodies tested to know for sure.

I'm all about helping and not hurting anyone......OK...I'm off my thyroid bandwagon now and will go back to reading and not posting.

I, for one, am VERY interested in anything you have to say about thyroid issues, and I'm so grateful you took the time to reply. I have read conflicting things about iodine when it comes to the thyroid, so I am just waiting to hear about my results before starting any supplementation or changing my diet at all. I've been very close to "giving up" on NK since I read about very low carb diets possibly affecting the thyroid in a negative way, but then the scale started suddenly moving down for me. So, I'm sticking with it with no modifications for now, unless I find out for sure that something's up with my thyroid.

Time to try calling the doctor's office again and see what fresh, new way they'll try to put me off.

[MerryKate]

Originally Posted by shelley

Hi Merry Kate......I'm guessing that your sister does not have Hashimoto's Hypothyroidism. And iodine/kelp might be helpful to her situation.

No, she doesn't have Hashimotos, and FWIW, what she was passing along is just info to help increase thyroid output in people with a healthy thyroid gland. I've been tested several times and always come out low normal - too high for medication, but on the sluggish side. NK has raised my thyroid levels to normal; I was attributing it to the coconut oil.

Originally Posted by shelley

I am fearful of even writing this post because last time I made a comment about thyroid, I sort of got "put in my place" by a couple people who took offense to what I wrote.

No worries - this is a friendly discussion. I'm not going to stomp on anyone for sharing a conflicting viewpoint. What you told us about Hashimotos and iodine is important - I don't want to steer anyone to something that would harm them. Lindsay, it sounds like you should wait for your results before adding the iodine to your diet.

Originally Posted by shelley

There is someone on the forums that says rubbing CO on the throat/thyroid will help cure it.

That's too funny...I would never have even thought of rubbing it into the skin over my neck! Amazing what people will come up with. I was talking about eating coconut oil - I did have improved thyroid test scores after adding coconut oil to my diet, but I know not everyone has that kind of response to it. So everything I wrote should come with the YMMV disclaimer. ;D

[MerryKate]

After all that, my daily check-in: 0.6 ketones this morning, and a not-so-nice weight bounce. Really waiting for things to click so I'll start losing again. I have to admit I've been "cheating" a bit, and tomorrow I've got to get back to the basics again. (When I say cheat, I'm talking about a slice of bread here and there, or going out for chinese food and hoping I got the lowest-carb thing on the menu.)

I'm having something of a struggle, emotionally. I'm at a smaller size than I ever thought I'd get to when I started out, but my weight loss has not been going smoothly, and it makes me wonder, at what point do you decide to be satisfied with being smaller, and live life as close to normal as possible, instead of always working towards some ultimate goal?

[Yvonnem2000]

Week 0, pre-NK
wt 148.2

Week 1
am BK 0.7
146.6

Week 2
AM BK 1.1
147.0

Week 3
AM BK 1.1
wt 148.4

I didn't eat well last week. Stayed low-carb, but not NK and overate several times. Now I'm back on track.

My biggest hurdle is psychological resistance to this WOE. "I can't believe I'm choosing sour cream instead of vegetables - that can't be right." "It's too hard for me to eat this way and still cook variety for my family." etc. I'd love to hear if any of you went through this type of resistance.

I finally bought the Performance book, and I'm hoping that will give me reinforcement. The main thing is, I feel good when I eat this way! Especially after I maintain it for several days in a row. I smile and laugh more easily.
I sleep better. I have good energy for working out, and I can go all day with life's various chores. I'm hoping my times of going off-track will be fewer and fewer as I just learn for myself that this feels like the way I was born to eat.
Yvonne

[shelley]

Thanks MerryKate. I feel the same way about posting things I am very "aware" of and feel confident in reporting to the group, but last time I didn't get nice comments or responses. Thank you for your sweet words. I agree that Lindsay should wait until she knows if she has Hashi's or not. It's really important. Thanks again.

[JMCM1]

Shelley and anyone else who posts about thyroid issues - I SO appreciate your insights.
Thank you for taking the time to post - many of us benefit from your words - probably few of us thank you.

Thank you!

[MerryKate]

Originally Posted by Yvonnem2000

Week 0, pre-NK
My biggest hurdle is psychological resistance to this WOE. "I can't believe I'm choosing sour cream instead of vegetables - that can't be right."

I've been doing NK since October, and at times I still have to remind myself that "fat is good." We've been so brainwashed into thinking fats are bad for you...and it doesn't help that every magazine out there is screaming headlines that reinforces fat phobia. But keep it up - fat is good!

Originally Posted by Yvonnem2000

It's too hard for me to eat this way and still cook variety for my family."

It must be frustrating, trying to cook a Standard American Diet while eating NK. My sister occasionally comes to visit and inevitably I wind up cheating, mostly out of politeness. Have you changed what you're feeding your family as you've changed your diet?

[BigRunner]

Weight: 197 > 197 > 194> 197> 194> 195> 195> 192
BK: 2.5 > 1.8 > 2.3 > 1.9 > 1.6> 2.4> 1.7> 1.7

Down 3 pounds from last weigh-in. 2 pounds into new territory!

The tracking seems to have helped the scale move. For now, I have settled on 125g of protein and 25g or less of carbs. In the tracking program, that puts the ratios at 75/20/5. Yesterday the protein drifted a little high, I think that's why the BK are a little lower than normal. Calories (which I think were the biggest issue) for now, I am keeping around 2000.

Thanks for the support and all the great conversation here.

[bjjcaveman]

Originally Posted by BigRunner

Weight: 197 > 197 > 194> 197> 194> 195> 195> 192
BK: 2.5 > 1.8 > 2.3 > 1.9 > 1.6> 2.4> 1.7> 1.7

Down 3 pounds from last weigh-in. 2 pounds into new territory!

The tracking seems to have helped the scale move. For now, I have settled on 125g of protein and 25g or less of carbs. In the tracking program, that puts the ratios at 75/20/5. Yesterday the protein drifted a little high, I think that's why the BK are a little lower than normal. Calories (which I think were the biggest issue) for now, I am keeping around 2000.

Thanks for the support and all the great conversation here.

way to go !!

[drjlocarb]

Congratulations BigRunner!

[clackley]

Originally Posted by JMCM1

Shelley and anyone else who posts about thyroid issues - I SO appreciate your insights.
Thank you for taking the time to post - many of us benefit from your words - probably few of us thank you.

Thank you!

Me too! Thank you Shelley! It is a complicated issue with lots of 'takes' on various aspects and really hard to sort through. I am very appreciative of your insights.

BigRunner - that is fabulous!! Thank you for the inspiration!!

[sharkbait]

My readings to date

Date Blood Sugar Ketones
24-Jan 3.7 0.4
29-Jan 5.4 1.1
01-Feb 5.7 0.6
03-Feb 5.2 0.4
08-Feb 4.7 1.7
11-Feb 5.1 0.3 (self inflicted - Birthday of friend = too much red wine)
13-Feb 5.1 0.4
14-Feb 0.7

[shelley]

Originally Posted by BigRunner

Weight: 197 > 197 > 194> 197> 194> 195> 195> 192
BK: 2.5 > 1.8 > 2.3 > 1.9 > 1.6> 2.4> 1.7> 1.7

Down 3 pounds from last weigh-in. 2 pounds into new territory!

The tracking seems to have helped the scale move. For now, I have settled on 125g of protein and 25g or less of carbs. In the tracking program, that puts the ratios at 75/20/5. Yesterday the protein drifted a little high, I think that's why the BK are a little lower than normal. Calories (which I think were the biggest issue) for now, I am keeping around 2000.

Thanks for the support and all the great conversation here.

Fabulous!!!!!

[clackley]

Buffey, where are you and more importantly, how are you?

[vaargen]

After a few weeks without ketosis sticks, my new shipment from NZ has finally arrived so starting on Sunday I will check it everyday and see if I can finally drop some weight(have been doing a lot of training last month so lost some inches but no weight).

[Yvonnem2000]

[/QUOTE]It must be frustrating, trying to cook a Standard American Diet while eating NK. My sister occasionally comes to visit and inevitably I wind up cheating, mostly out of politeness. Have you changed what you're feeding your family as you've changed your diet?[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the encouragement, MerryKate. I've definitely changed - my family doesn't eat SAD, and my son went low-carb recently. But I'd like to just have salad with meat for dinner, every night. I feel like my family needs/wants/should be able to have more veggies and more interesting meals in general, ya know?

BigRunner, thanks for sharing your success. Congratulations! I'm really trying to use my fitbit and tie my daily calories more closely to my needs, in hopes of weight-loss. I'm clinging to your success and hoping mine will follow! I don't always like calorie restriction so I'll remind myself it worked for you and if I stick with it, it will work for me, too.

ok, my attempt to quote didn't work. Still learning!

[BigRunner]

Weight: 197 > 197 > 194> 197> 194> 195> 195> 192> 191
BK: 2.5 > 1.8 > 2.3 > 1.9 > 1.6> 2.4> 1.7> 1.7> 1.4

Down another pound!

Carbs and Protein well within range yesterday. Not sure why the BK readings are trending down. Had two separate fairly intense exercise sessions yesterday. Not sure if BK should be up or down after that..

[Myles]

i havent been on in a while. I started doing full body weight training every 2nd day when i'm in town, but when have gone on sales trips i stop for those 6 days then resume when i get back home.

For eating, i was so frustrated not losing, after trying lower protein, i tried higher protein, then i tried cyclic stuff where i would eat lchf mon - fri then eat high carb cheating on the weekend - none of these worked for me for the few months i tried them. Today is day one back on LCHF, and i'm pretty bummed about the whole thing because i've felt like i've tried everything and nothings working. To top it off i just am filled with confusion about what to do, what not to do.

Anyway, sorry for the whiney post. Back to it.

[drjlocarb]

I hear you Myles. You're here for the same reason I'm here.

Whine all you need to.

[MerryKate]

Welcome back, goolash. I understand your frustration - my weight loss has kind of leveled off at this point, and the winter weather isn't helping. I know carb-cycling is the hot trend right now, but from my experience it doesn't work well. I gained and lost a lot of water weight, got very cranky and wasted a lot of money on carby foods before I admitted defeat and tried NK instead. It can take a while for NK to produce results in some people...you may need to just stick with it for few months before the weight loss takes off.

BigRunner, congrats on the loss. You're doing great! I understand a big exercise session can drive your ketones down, but only temporarily. As long as you're losing, don't sweat the numbers.

[clackley]

Yes, I too am frustrated.