Low Carb Friends  
Netrition.com - Tools - Reviews - Faces - Recipes - Home


Go Back   Low Carb Friends > Eating and Exercise Plans > Weight Loss Plans > Nutritional Ketosis / High Fat, Low Carb
Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-30-2013, 10:03 AM   #1
Major LCF Poster!
 
rubidoux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: san diego
Posts: 1,463
Gallery: rubidoux
Stats: 214/154/130 (5'2")
WOE: HF/MP/LC
Start Date: restart 9/2012
Does anyone else have trouble getting enough protein?

I try to shoot for around 70 g per day, but many days I start scrambling in the evening to figure out a way to get 20 or 30 more grams in. I have some hard boiled eggs in the fridge, but that feels like a lot of food to get that many grams. Maybe I should buy some of those already cooked grilled chicken strips from costco and force them down.

I guess I already know what I have to do (though if anyone knows of some super protein rich food I haven't thought of, I'd love to hear it!) but I was wondering if others here have this problem. I would have thought that it would be hard to limit my protein, and I just can't figure out what's going on.

Also I'm wondering how are these JUDDD'ers not muscle wasting? And if they aren't, is it bc they get as much protein on the UD's as they need to cover the DD's? Can our bodies work with a big load of protein and then use it over a bit of time? I always think that I shouldn't eat all of my protein at once but spread it over the day so it's available and, god forbid, what if I can't use it all for noble purposes at the time of that big meal, kwim? But I actually find it easier to have all at one big meal.

I am not tracking all of my macros, just keeping track of protein really (as the carbiest foods I usually eat are cheese, egg, and HWC, I know I'm well under 20 a day). I suppose I should probably do that to figure out what's going on. The reason I haven't bothered is that most days I get two coffees at starbucks with HWC that isn't measured, so I feel like it's just a stab in the dark after that. But I don't think I'm coming in terribly low in calories. When I have tried to figure out my calories it's always upwards of 1800, which is so surprising given that I don't really eat anything. lol
__________________
jayne, type I diabetic and mama to two sweet boys (9/03 and 2/09)

ckd support group thread

gynema thread

high fat, moderate protein, very low carb, intermittent fasting
I have walked 162 miles since April 1.
rubidoux is offline   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old 01-30-2013, 12:23 PM   #2
Very Gabby LCF Member!!!
 
drjlocarb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Indiana
Posts: 4,267
Gallery: drjlocarb
Stats: 274 /219/190
WOE: vlc/NK
Start Date: LC-1999,jan2010 274 NK 1-1-13 at 244
No problem here!

B-2 eggs, 2 sausage, 1 oz cheese

S-5 oz steak and broccoli

= 70g protein
drjlocarb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 01:47 PM   #3
Major LCF Poster!
 
rubidoux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: san diego
Posts: 1,463
Gallery: rubidoux
Stats: 214/154/130 (5'2")
WOE: HF/MP/LC
Start Date: restart 9/2012
Well, you do make it look easy, but my problem isn't so much in counting up the grams. Maybe I should explain a bit more...

I have been really hungry today (normally I'm not during the day, I was hoping this meant that my body was wanting protein, since yesterday I only had around 45 g or so), so I thought maybe I should feed myself some good protein. I went to the store and bought a pound of their fattiest hamburger which should have 71 g of protein in it. I thought I'd cook it up in a way that is most appealing to me (added 1/3 c diced tomatoes and chili powder and salt), melted a bit of cheese over it (adding a few g of protein), a little sour cream on the side to help get it down. And now, about four bites into it, blah... I don't want any more.

I am pretty sure I am in serious depths of ketosis. And I suppose that's why this is happening, but I would think that my body would at least be willing to accept what it needs, yk?

So, I am trying to get down just a few more bites, and then I'll warm the rest up later tonight.

And btw, I did the actual calculation from Phinney and Volek last night, and it turns out I probably should be having closer to 90 than 70g. If I put in 125 as an ideal weight I get 85 g protein. I don't think I will ever be 125 pounds again, but when I was I was quite small. I mean, I was an adult, but I was verging on too thin. So, while it is within the healthy weight range for my height (5'0"), a healthy weight for me might be more like at least 130. I always think of 135 as where I was happiest. I know that sounds big for someone who has NO height, though, so I put in 125...
rubidoux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 02:23 PM   #4
Major LCF Poster!
 
rubidoux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: san diego
Posts: 1,463
Gallery: rubidoux
Stats: 214/154/130 (5'2")
WOE: HF/MP/LC
Start Date: restart 9/2012
Well, I am just thinking out loud here... but in case anyone is interested I just had an aha moment.

I am a type I, so my body doesn't make any insulin at all. When I'm eating carbs (and when I'm eating carbs I never just eat a few, iywim) I use upwards of 80 units a day, most days probably more like 100 (though trying hard to stay in denial, I rarely counted). When eating a standard Atkins induction, I can get myself down to, at the lowest, 23 units.

When I started shooting for NK (not always super on target with the protein in one direction or the other, but definitely thinking of protein as something not to be eaten freely), I started getting numbers under 20, mostly between 17 and 18 units. The last several days, while I have not been able to get myself to eat more than about 50 g of protein a day, I have between 14.25 and 15.0. I think I have my basal set at 15.0 (that is the amount of insulin that is slowly being infused throughout the day to keep me even if I eat nothing at all).

So, here's my aha moment: If my body is not turning any protein into glucose (which is what we don't want to have happen on NK), I want to be able to eat as much protein as I can without going above 14.5 to 15.0 units of insulin.

There are very few things that I think are cool about my diabetes, but I'm gonna take this one. I'm pretty sure it would take a lot of work to figure out exactly how to get to that point, but I think it could be done either with very careful weighing and measuring of b/s or, how I usually do things with my diabetes, by over and over and over trial and error. I mean, if I keep doing this for months on end, I well eventually learn to eat in a way that causes me neither to go too low or to have to use any extra insulin.

There's also those pesky 14 g or so of carb that eat a day, but I think I can figure that out, too...

Last edited by rubidoux; 01-30-2013 at 02:25 PM..
rubidoux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 02:44 PM   #5
Very Gabby LCF Member!!!
 
drjlocarb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Indiana
Posts: 4,267
Gallery: drjlocarb
Stats: 274 /219/190
WOE: vlc/NK
Start Date: LC-1999,jan2010 274 NK 1-1-13 at 244
The keto calculator (google it) shows 62g for you.

I dont know much about T1 so can't give you advice about that. But' it sounds like you are at a base level for your body. Good job.
drjlocarb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 02:53 PM   #6
Major LCF Poster!
 
rubidoux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: san diego
Posts: 1,463
Gallery: rubidoux
Stats: 214/154/130 (5'2")
WOE: HF/MP/LC
Start Date: restart 9/2012
Hmmm... well, 85 does feel like a ton, but that's what I get with the P&V formula (125/2.2 x 1.5). Maybe my original 70 was correct... or lower. That would be great. I wish I could know now somehow. I actually thought I got the 70 from the keto calculator, but maybe it was a different one. It was some website where you filled in info and it spit out a range.
rubidoux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 02:58 PM   #7
Very Gabby LCF Member!!!
 
drjlocarb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Indiana
Posts: 4,267
Gallery: drjlocarb
Stats: 274 /219/190
WOE: vlc/NK
Start Date: LC-1999,jan2010 274 NK 1-1-13 at 244
Well I did have to guess at some of the info I entered. You are only 22 years old. right?
drjlocarb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 04:48 PM   #8
Major LCF Poster!
 
rubidoux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: san diego
Posts: 1,463
Gallery: rubidoux
Stats: 214/154/130 (5'2")
WOE: HF/MP/LC
Start Date: restart 9/2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by drjlocarb View Post
Well I did have to guess at some of the info I entered. You are only 22 years old. right?
Nope!
rubidoux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 04:51 PM   #9
Major LCF Poster!
 
rubidoux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: san diego
Posts: 1,463
Gallery: rubidoux
Stats: 214/154/130 (5'2")
WOE: HF/MP/LC
Start Date: restart 9/2012
I actually forced myself to eat that entire pound of hamburger plus cheese plus sour cream. I did not enjoy eating it, but I have felt pretty good since. Definitely not hungry. My plan is to have a coffee with heavy whipping cream this afternoon and then if I need it a fat bomb or two, but I'm not feeling like I'll need it.
rubidoux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 07:14 PM   #10
Senior LCF Member
 
Yvonnem2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 443
Gallery: Yvonnem2000
Stats: 148.6/151/135
WOE: Atkins Induction
Start Date: April 2012
Sorry, I don't have anything to answer but wanted to wish you well. Sounds like you are figuring things out as you go. For me, it's just soooo easy to eat protein, but I know we each have our own challenges!
Yvonnem2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2013, 03:57 AM   #11
Senior LCF Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 914
Gallery: Punkin
Stats: 160/95/100
WOE: NK or LC
Quote:
Originally Posted by rubidoux View Post
I try to shoot for around 70 g per day, but many days I start scrambling in the evening to figure out a way to get 20 or 30 more grams in. lol
Well I've read a lot of the Phinney and Volek's resources and they say a range anywhere from 61g to 125g for a women. You're a woman right? But the bottom range was for an endurance athlete who is 5'5 and weighs about 120lbs, with 10% BF, which means that for someone your height and mine, it would probably be ok to be a bit below 60g. Also keto-adaption is muscle sparing, once the muscles learn to burn fat they aren't going to be burning protein for energy, ie. from dietary or muscle. So you would need less protein anyways, since a non-keto adapted person would burn protein as fuel in place of glucose. It is actually probably best not to over-indulge in protein.

Having said that, I track everything meticulously and I find I have trouble reducing protein enough to keep myself in a good range for ketosis. I am not sure what you are eating, but most LC foods contain trace amounts of protein and those grams eventually add up. I try not to exceed 10g of protein per meal or snack (with the exception) of dinner, and I find it really difficult. So you are probably intaking more protein than you think. I eat about 1 serving of meat a day which is smaller than my fist, and I still manage to make it into the right range. The odd day I will have a small cube of cheese at the end of the day if I need just a bit more, but most days I don't.

What is an example of your daily menu, by looking at it I can probably tell if you are getting enough protein.
Punkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2013, 10:07 AM   #12
Major LCF Poster!
 
rubidoux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: san diego
Posts: 1,463
Gallery: rubidoux
Stats: 214/154/130 (5'2")
WOE: HF/MP/LC
Start Date: restart 9/2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Punkin View Post
Well I've read a lot of the Phinney and Volek's resources and they say a range anywhere from 61g to 125g for a women. You're a woman right? But the bottom range was for an endurance athlete who is 5'5 and weighs about 120lbs, with 10% BF, which means that for someone your height and mine, it would probably be ok to be a bit below 60g. Also keto-adaption is muscle sparing, once the muscles learn to burn fat they aren't going to be burning protein for energy, ie. from dietary or muscle. So you would need less protein anyways, since a non-keto adapted person would burn protein as fuel in place of glucose. It is actually probably best not to over-indulge in protein.

Having said that, I track everything meticulously and I find I have trouble reducing protein enough to keep myself in a good range for ketosis. I am not sure what you are eating, but most LC foods contain trace amounts of protein and those grams eventually add up. I try not to exceed 10g of protein per meal or snack (with the exception) of dinner, and I find it really difficult. So you are probably intaking more protein than you think. I eat about 1 serving of meat a day which is smaller than my fist, and I still manage to make it into the right range. The odd day I will have a small cube of cheese at the end of the day if I need just a bit more, but most days I don't.

What is an example of your daily menu, by looking at it I can probably tell if you are getting enough protein.
That's a lot of good info. I'm going to have to come back and refer to your post! And maybe I'll start shooting for 70 but feel okay about 60ish.

A typical day for me involves one or two meals. Sometimes it's just an egg cream which is:

4 eggs (24 g pro)
2T hwc
2T CO
1 c (sometimes less) TJ's coconut milk (1 g pro)
vanilla, liquid splenda, dash salt, cinnamon

On days that I have just an egg cream I am also getting a ton of calories from HWC in my coffee (maybe like 400 or 500), so it's not that I'm starving myself, except maybe for protein.

I know this sounds awful, but if I manage to have my first meal early enough, I often have an egg cream for one meal and then 4 or 5 scrambled eggs for my second meal with 1-2 ounces of cheese. I guess that is getting to 60 -- 48 for the eggs, 1 for the coconut milk, 6-12 for the cheese. When I do this, though, I'm usually forcing down the last half of it.

I do eat meat sometimes. But I find that I make a plate of some kind of meat, like recently I made a pork butt roast, and fix myself a reasonable portion, but three bites in, blah... I often will force it down because I'm trying to hit my protein goal and I think I often do get close enough, at least 60 I'm sure. But I never feel like I am trying to limit my protein. It's always a struggle to get to it, yk?

I think I'm gonna try adding in salmon several times a week, like maybe every other day, with a squeeze of lemon. I don't think it will give me that heavy greasy feeling that other meat seems to. In fact it sounds good to me right now. I don't know why I didn't think of it earlier. I think if I can hit 70 every other day, then I won't feel bad if I'm at 50 or so on the other days.

BTW, that pound of meat that I ate yesterday in one sitting was such a mixed bag. The pros were awesome: I definitely got enough protein, I just have no doubt about that, I feel it in my bones! lol And wow, was I ever not hungry or even having any thoughts of food whatsoever. I almost always have some anxious thoughts during the day about whether or not I will make it through without a cheat, even when I am not at all hungry. But yesterday no anxiety about that whatsoever. But, it wreaked havok with my blood sugar. Nothing like eating carbs does, but it was it was consistently between 180 and 200 for the entire rest of the day. I ate it around 1:30 pm (though I think it took me a good hour to choke it down) and my b/s was still high after midnight. I haven't checked how much insulin I used for the day, but I bet it was at least 20, which I haven't hit in a while. I also had full on insane heartburn at all evening even at like 1 am, which was nearly 12 hours after eating it -- and I'm sure it was from that meal. I am prone to heartburn but it's normally much better while LC'ing and never as bad as it was last night. So, I probably won't try that again. But if I ever have a period where I feel like I am just going to die if I don't go off plan, I just might.

Last edited by rubidoux; 01-31-2013 at 10:15 AM..
rubidoux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2013, 09:56 PM   #13
Junior LCF Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 19
Gallery: dawnth1
Twin lab Aminos will also give you an additional 15 grams of protein, all in amino acid form. Between that, 3 eggs, 2 strips of turkey bacon, a can of tuna, a little almond butter and whatever protein for dinner, I usually go over 100 grams. Good luck
dawnth1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 12:02 AM   #14
Major LCF Poster!
 
rubidoux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: san diego
Posts: 1,463
Gallery: rubidoux
Stats: 214/154/130 (5'2")
WOE: HF/MP/LC
Start Date: restart 9/2012
Thanks, dawnth1! I am doing a little bit better the last day or so. Today I didn't feel pukey while eating even once and went over a bit on my protein. Probably not a coincidence!
rubidoux is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:14 PM.


Copyright ©1999-2014 Friends Forums LLC. All rights reserved. - Terms of Service | Privacy Policy
LowCarbFriends® is a registered mark of Friends Forums, LLC.