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Old 01-19-2013, 11:41 PM   #1
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WOE: nutritional ketosis
Diet Sodas and ketones!

I know there was previous discussion on the effect of Diet Soda's, particularly with my blood sugars.

I've recently been reading through Dr. Peter Attia's site, and came across one of these comments from one of his posts

Quote:
"BTW – I have found a potential anecdotal correlation in myself between diet side consumption (ounces) and B-OHB levels. I keep my diet and activity the same and found the amount of diet soda decreases my B-OHB the next day. I have found 2 20 ounce diet mtn dew can drop me from 3 to 1.6. And 20-40 additional ounces can drop me to .5 or below. Roughly each 20 ounce drink seems to decrease my B-OHB by .6 to .7 ( no p values yet).

I plan on testing BS and B-OHB levels more rigorously (intra-day & next day) in the coming months.
I would think as people stay in NK who are extremely IR they would tend to vary their diet and drink sodas, thus kicking them out of Ketosis without realizing by being complacent."
and Dr. Attia responded with

Quote:
Your experience with diet soda has been noted in others, too. You may have a cephalic insulin response to the aspartame.
Which was very interesting for me to learn.

Seems like even more evidence to stay away from the diet drinks...
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Old 01-19-2013, 11:47 PM   #2
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"Your experience with diet soda has been noted in others, too. You may have a cephalic insulin response to the aspartame. "

Which of course begs the question, "What about sodas that are not sweetened with aspartame?" There a quite a few that use splenda instead.
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Old 01-20-2013, 04:12 AM   #3
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I would also wonder if it is indeed the aspartame or just sweeteners in general.

I have always had a ravenous sweet tooth. Always. I gave up all sweeteners as of January 1st as part of a challenge. After the first couple of days, I have had ZERO cravings for anything sweet. It's been nothing short of incredible. I did drink some diet soda with aspartame, but I used a whole lot of splenda in my coffee. I think both kept the cravings alive even though "low carb".

Just my personal experience.
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Old 01-20-2013, 11:21 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRunner View Post
I would also wonder if it is indeed the aspartame or just sweeteners in general.

I have always had a ravenous sweet tooth. Always. I gave up all sweeteners as of January 1st as part of a challenge. After the first couple of days, I have had ZERO cravings for anything sweet. It's been nothing short of incredible. I did drink some diet soda with aspartame, but I used a whole lot of splenda in my coffee. I think both kept the cravings alive even though "low carb".

Just my personal experience.
I have the same experience... you shoulda seen what my cheat days looked like on the 4 hour body diet... donuts and donuts and cream puffs and cheesecakes etc...

now my sweet tooth is extremely blunted since I haven't been eating that stuff.

also my desire for diet sodas have gone down a ton too.. I just drink tea and black coffees too..
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Old 01-20-2013, 01:52 PM   #5
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I don't see how the happenstance that these very different chemicals happen to trigger the "sweet" tastebuds would mean they cause similar reactions elsewhere in your body. To me this is like expecting blueberries and some energy drink to do the same thing because they are blue.
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Old 01-20-2013, 04:58 PM   #6
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By that logic, the same effect would occur as a result of consuming anything sweet, be it artificial sweeteners, sugar alcohols, fruit, stevia...yet there is some evidence that stevia is actually beneficial, not harmful, for those with glucose metabolism challenges despite its sweetness.

We each have to do what works for us. I would be miserable if I gave up my diet soda right now, as I use it to essentially stop me from reaching for candy. The soda is certainly the lesser of evils. I also hate all forms of coffee and tea, and I love the carbonation (especially for taking pills, which I take supplements 4 times per day) and have never found a carbonated water I find even remotely palatable.

I've also tried Zevia (diet soda sweetened with stevia and erythritol), and did not care for it one bit, especially considering the price
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Old 01-20-2013, 07:15 PM   #7
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I know what you mean, jillybean...there's just something wrong with the flavor of Zevia - especially their ginger ale. ;p Written as I drink a diet Canada Dry...my first soda of the year.
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Old 01-20-2013, 11:47 PM   #8
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I used diet soda a long time for my sweet tooth... and slowly... very slowly was able to finally wean off.. but everyone's gotta find what works best for them!

diet soda is certainly better than regular soda.. so if that helps then by all means do it.. I certainly did.
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Old 01-21-2013, 03:41 AM   #9
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You know, I was off of all soda for many months. I figured once I cut it out, it would be easy to "stay off the stuff." I actually developed a VERY strong dislike for Diet Pepsi (which had been my beverage of choice) very early in my pregnancy last year; it suddenly just always tasted awful. That made it very easy to ditch, which I wanted to do during pregnancy anyway. I stayed soda-free for the majority of my pregnancy, probably at least 7 months, but I wanted it back I missed the carbonation and the flavor, as I tried countless varieties of flavored carbonated waters and such before succumbing to the diet soda again.

Don't get me wrong - I don't think anyone thinks diet soda is "good" for them, just that it's less bad than sugary sodas. I figure if diet soda is the one thing I consume regularly that is so awful, I'm still doing much better for my overall health than the vast majority of others today
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Old 01-21-2013, 05:57 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ravenrose View Post
I don't see how the happenstance that these very different chemicals happen to trigger the "sweet" tastebuds would mean they cause similar reactions elsewhere in your body. To me this is like expecting blueberries and some energy drink to do the same thing because they are blue.
I agree.

I have yet to see an explanation that would reasonably explain this.

I drink diet pop (the clear kind) and have been intentionally reducing it and have not seen any correlation with ketones.
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Old 01-21-2013, 06:10 AM   #11
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My understanding, based on the "experiment" from the dietdoctor's article on drinking a Pepsi Max, the guess is the sweet from the diet soda caused an anticipatory spike in insulin which in turn brought the ketone level down. It then took many hours for the ketone levels to get back to previous levels (down nearly half initially). His "experiment" was not rigorous scientifically and since it was only one time on one person, it is impossible to definitively draw any conclusions. However, it is definitely food for thought.

I am no expert. Maybe there is something else going on that I am now losing after cutting the sweeteners. I have been on low carb of one form or another for years all the while drinking diet soda and cosuming lots of sweeteners. Only now, do I feel optimistic that I can finally get the weight off.
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Old 01-24-2013, 08:41 AM   #12
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The Swedish diet doctor, Andreas Eenfeldt, who has a blog tested, his blood ketones after drinking diet soda. His blood glucose levels didn't go up but his ketone levels dropped a lot after drinking a diet Pepsi and took a long time to come back up. It may be a YMMV thing, but he was testing blood glucose and blood ketones at intervals after consuming diet soda.
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Old 01-24-2013, 09:32 AM   #13
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What are we talking about when saying 'diet soda'? I ask because they are not all created equally. For instance some are sweetened with aspartame and others, sucralose. Some ingredients in cola type drinks are not present in the '7-up' types. How many of these variances were put to the test?
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:43 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clackley View Post
What are we talking about when saying 'diet soda'? I ask because they are not all created equally. For instance some are sweetened with aspartame and others, sucralose. Some ingredients in cola type drinks are not present in the '7-up' types. How many of these variances were put to the test?
I think very few are actually sweetened with sucralose. The only one I actually know of is the Diet Coke specifically labeled as Diet Coke with Splenda. I think maybe Diet Rite as well, but I can't think of anyone I know who actually drinks that :P

I do agree that there are many factors about sodas other than the sweeteners that could have an affect. For example, the phosphoric acid used in colas can leech calcium from the body, whereas non-colas don't contain that type of acid. If it's leeching calcium, it may have other effects as well.

If you're happy without diet soda and see better results, go for it, by all means
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:32 AM   #15
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I would like to see that test done by someone who drinks diet soda on a regular basis.

I think he did Pepsi Max and is not a soda drinker.
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Old 01-25-2013, 12:15 AM   #16
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Ideally, if I can get my ketones higher consistently (in the 2-3 mmol range) I'd love to do this test!.. but I can't seem to break 1.0 on a consistent basis... so it may have to wait.
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:11 AM   #17
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I drink (very)much Pepsi Max same kind as Eenfeldt and I still maintain 3+ mmol/L without any problems, have seen others say the same so like most things it's individual, but maybe without the Pepsi I would have been steady 4+ but 3+ is good enough for me
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:57 AM   #18
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Here is my frustration with experiments such as the one referred to here is that
1. the information about what else if anything else was consumed during the test period
2. there is no `control`or what happened when he didn`t consume the pop at the same time under the same conditions
3. did it get repeated
4. how do we know what it was in the pop if indeed it did cause a drop in b.k.
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