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Old 03-22-2013, 11:27 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by Green View Post
Anyone have insight to whether or not a person fairly recently off of a 500 cal/day HCG diet (did it for a 3 weeks in December, then switched to paleo) is considered metabolically resistant?

I worry that my body is in starvation mode and going to 1000cal/day on FF (I'm probably at 1500 hf/lc) would signal my body to store the fat.

I do believe I'm in ketosis (urine strips) but never over 15mg (light pink) unless I've chugged some MCT oil. I've been eating Keto for about 2 weeks as of now with a banh-mi slip-up this past weekend (puked hours after). Guess I'm just unsure if I should stick with plain 'ole NK for a while or go ahead with a FF.

I hope this post is appropriate for this thread. New to the site (so so thankful for y'all!) and definitely don't want to "hijack" or anything.
Why are you considering doing the FF?

It is popular but not universal so it isn't a mandatory first step for NK. If you are committed to the woe then just start NK and see how it goes.
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Old 03-22-2013, 12:14 PM   #62
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Reddarin, thanks for responding!

I guess the main reason is so I can lose some weight quickly in the beginning. Then I'll be more likely to stick with the NK way. Last time I tried NK was back in October and I fell off the bandwagon when my sister suggested I do the HCG diet with her.

I do think NK is best for me health-wise as diabetes and obesity run in my family. I'm also hoping this lifestyle will heal my body from years of abuse (binging/purging, restricting, yo-yo dieting). However, I'm aware that my body image continues to be a huge motivation, and I tend to overeat (even in NK), so that's why I am considering the FF. Maybe my approach is backward...
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Old 03-22-2013, 12:40 PM   #63
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Reddarin, thanks for responding!

I guess the main reason is so I can lose some weight quickly in the beginning. Then I'll be more likely to stick with the NK way. Last time I tried NK was back in October and I fell off the bandwagon when my sister suggested I do the HCG diet with her.

I do think NK is best for me health-wise as diabetes and obesity run in my family. I'm also hoping this lifestyle will heal my body from years of abuse (binging/purging, restricting, yo-yo dieting). However, I'm aware that my body image continues to be a huge motivation, and I tend to overeat (even in NK), so that's why I am considering the FF. Maybe my approach is backward...
Some people do experience some weight loss with a short FF but not everyone as far as I know. I mean, FF doesn't ensure a pound or two drop. So, be aware of that and do not let a contrary scale kick off your transition to NK on a sour note. You can do everything right and still not win sort of thing.

No, your reason for doing a short FF is perfect in my opinion. Attitude follows action.

Take your measurements and check them periodically so you don't get beat up by the scale when you weigh-in.
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Old 03-22-2013, 01:19 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by lowcarbella View Post
here is a menu I often use :

-2eggs w butter
-2 oz cream cheese
-2 oz sour cream
-2oz cheddar cheese
-2 oz sour cream

Try to avoid sweeteners if you can,try to cut caffeine
Better no caffeine,no sweeteners,plenty of water and rest.

The more complicated dessert recipes for Fat fast that floats on internet never worked for me anyway
Do you feel that you are getting enough protein eating that? Just wondering.

Kelly
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Old 03-22-2013, 01:58 PM   #65
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i am at 82.8% fat so far today, 15.5% protein (45 grams so far) and 1.7% carbs and 1,166 calories so far.

I will b eating 2 or 3 more times today, im not limiting to 1000 calories, sorry thats crazy for a guy my size. But the last 2 meals or so will be more fatty and less protein.

I will probably end up still under 1600 for the day, and we'll see what the scale says tmrw.

Yesterday i was doing the FF properly until dinner at my moms, but still lost weight today (water i guess)
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Old 03-22-2013, 02:13 PM   #66
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i am at 82.8% fat so far today, 15.5% protein (45 grams so far) and 1.7% carbs and 1,166 calories so far.

I will b eating 2 or 3 more times today, im not limiting to 1000 calories, sorry thats crazy for a guy my size. But the last 2 meals or so will be more fatty and less protein.

I will probably end up still under 1600 for the day, and we'll see what the scale says tmrw.

Yesterday i was doing the FF properly until dinner at my moms, but still lost weight today (water i guess)
Great, Myles!!
Mind posting your eats?
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Old 03-22-2013, 02:26 PM   #67
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Great, Myles!!
Mind posting your eats?
Of course not!

Yesterday:

6 am - coffee w/ co
11 am - 2 slices bacon
2 pm - 2 slices of bacon
3:30pm - 2 slices of bacon and a handful of peanuts
6:00 pm - locally made chicken sausages,peppers and onions, and salad with avocado, tomato, arugula and oil/vinegar (moms house)
8pm - sugar free jello cup X 2

Today:

6:30 am - coffee w/ co - 2 slices of bacon
9:45 am - 1 locally made farmers sausage with hot mustard, 1 tbsp creamcheese
1pm - another sausage and a piece of cheddar and cup of coffee
3pm - 3 slices bacon and 1 tbsp creamcheese

thats it so far today. Not sure about the last meal or two, something fatty, maybe avocado and mayo
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Old 03-22-2013, 02:29 PM   #68
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Thank you!
May sound crazy but I always lose weight when I've had a lot of bacon. Lol Miracle food!
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Old 03-22-2013, 02:36 PM   #69
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Thank you!
May sound crazy but I always lose weight when I've had a lot of bacon. Lol Miracle food!
haha. Love it!
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Old 03-23-2013, 06:17 AM   #70
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Hi Green! I ate roughly 500 calories/day for about 9 months. I had an eating disorder though-- was NOT following the HCG protocol. I increased my calories by 100 a week until I was eating 1200 a day. At first I put on 5 lbs quickly, but I think it was water weight due to increased carb intake, not actual fat.

I was weight stabilized at 140 pounds when I started low-carb.. so I gained 35 pounds over the course of 9 months eating more, but I needed it since I was at such a low BMI.

Now, my metabolism is fine and I eat between 1500-2000 calories a day.
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Old 03-23-2013, 10:28 AM   #71
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Thanks for sharing mizzcase! So good to hear that your metabolism recovered. I hope the same happens for me. It's been years since one of my attempts at restricting or hardcore dieting put me under 130. Hopefully eating keto will get me at a comfortable place physically and emotionally. Glad it has worked so well for you!
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Old 03-26-2013, 01:11 PM   #72
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Starting the FF tomorrow, as I've had a hard time getting back on track. Hoping this will help with the "cravings" and in the mean time I'll lose a few pounds
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Old 03-27-2013, 12:18 PM   #73
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I've been following your thread...

Anybody coming to FF from a looooooong stall? Were you able to break it and not regain going back to NK? Also, actually, what does NK really stand for, just another way of saying low carb/mod protein/high fat, but with more calories and less fat than FF)?

I've been Atkins LC'ing for almost three years. Weight loss was extremely slow. Began with 65 - 70 pounds to lose. It took me a year and a half to lose 50 of those pounds. I begin to slowly regain if I eat over 25 net carbs and/or over 50 total carbs. For the past year and a half I have lost no additional weight while staying at 25 net carbs, and have actually regained 15 pounds over the course of the last three to four months, just by trying to up my net carbs to closer to 30 NC in hopes of restarting my weight loss, and I now have 30 pounds to lose to get to my goal weight. I have not lost inches either, but rather have regained inches as well . I've been back on 20 net carbs for the past six weeks with no weight loss. I am feeling so hopeless and now getting backlash from all the naysayers of my WOE. I am desperate to get back losing. My clothes are getting uncomfortably tight and I refuse to repurchase larger sizes after cleaning out my closets a year ago - no going back!!!
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Old 03-27-2013, 12:30 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by krbuell View Post
Anybody coming to FF from a looooooong stall? Were you able to break it and not regain going back to NK? Also, actually, what does NK really stand for, just another way of saying low carb/mod protein/high fat, but with more calories and less fat than FF)?

I've been Atkins LC'ing for almost three years. Weight loss was extremely slow. Began with 65 - 70 pounds to lose. It took me a year and a half to lose 50 of those pounds. I begin to slowly regain if I eat over 25 net carbs and/or over 50 total carbs. For the past year and a half I have lost no additional weight while staying at 25 net carbs, and have actually regained 15 pounds over the course of the last three to four months, just by trying to up my net carbs to closer to 30 NC in hopes of restarting my weight loss, and I now have 30 pounds to lose to get to my goal weight. I have not lost inches either, but rather have regained inches as well . I've been back on 20 net carbs for the past six weeks with no weight loss. I am feeling so hopeless and now getting backlash from all the naysayers of my WOE. I am desperate to get back losing. My clothes are getting uncomfortably tight and I refuse to repurchase larger sizes after cleaning out my closets a year ago - no going back!!!
Check out this thread:

Nutritional Ketosis v. Atkins
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Old 03-27-2013, 12:45 PM   #75
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Thanks, Reddarin. I just went and read the thread you linked. My protein intake currently does closely mirror the formula for NK, so is the next step logically FF? I do notice if I eat more protein, I am hungrier, and I was aware of the issue of too much protein causing increased blood glucose levels, so that is why I already am eating at those levels (plus I've read a couple of Dr. Phinney's books as well as Gary Taubes).
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Old 03-27-2013, 01:29 PM   #76
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Thanks, Reddarin. I just went and read the thread you linked. My protein intake currently does closely mirror the formula for NK, so is the next step logically FF? I do notice if I eat more protein, I am hungrier, and I was aware of the issue of too much protein causing increased blood glucose levels, so that is why I already am eating at those levels (plus I've read a couple of Dr. Phinney's books as well as Gary Taubes).
No, not necessarily.

You are currently eating about 85g of protein a day consistently?

I think what I'd do is try tweaking the protein down a little to, say, 70g daily. That is just under 1.3g/kg for your reference weight of 125.

I'd also take a hard look at how many calories you are eating. Are you eating enough? Too few calories and too much of a calorie deficit is not helpful to consistent weight loss. And it isn't particularly healthy either.

Are you exercising? Too much of any kind will interfere with weight loss. Resistance exercise in moderation is the only kind that actually promotes weight loss because it builds muscle mass.

I'd also try to eat 40g or less total carbs not net.
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Old 03-27-2013, 01:59 PM   #77
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I currently average about 82 grams protein per day, 17 - 20 net carbs, 30 - 40 total carbs, and 1,400 - 1,500 calories. I am pretty sedentary during the week, working long hours at a desk, weekends a little more active. I do some resistance bands and hula-hooping when I have time, maybe twice a week on average, not as consistently as I know I should. I'll try cutting protein further as you suggested, and upping fat from my current average of 65 - 67% up to around 75%.
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Old 03-27-2013, 02:17 PM   #78
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I currently average about 82 grams protein per day, 17 - 20 net carbs, 30 - 40 total carbs, and 1,400 - 1,500 calories. I am pretty sedentary during the week, working long hours at a desk, weekends a little more active. I do some resistance bands and hula-hooping when I have time, maybe twice a week on average, not as consistently as I know I should. I'll try cutting protein further as you suggested, and upping fat from my current average of 65 - 67% up to around 75%.
No health issues or meds, right?

Maybe push calories up a little too. 1500 to 1600.

Exercise looks okay. For weight loss, less is more so don't beat yourself up about not doing more.
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Old 03-28-2013, 06:14 AM   #79
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Meds/health, I am on a number of allergy meds, synthroid for hypothyroid and estradiol (estrogen replacement) for menopausal symptoms after needing a hysterectomy in the September of 2010. However, meds have not changed from when I was losing to now. I actually lost weight immediately after starting the estradiol and my synthroid dose was lowered due to either the weight loss to date and/or improved thyroid function eating this way. I was diagnosed hypoglycemic way back when I was about 20 years old, but no issues with that once I became keto-adapted through eating low carb. I now rarely have a hypoglycemic episode and only if I don't get to eat for too long of a period. Family history - I'm the only one in a large extended family to reach my age (47 currently) without being diagnosed as diabetic. Type 1 and Type 2 both run in my family, which is a big part of the reason I chose LC as an eating plan and remain dedicated to it. I also have migraine meds, but seldom get a migraine now eating this way (maybe eight times in the past year that I took the meds).

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Old 03-28-2013, 08:32 AM   #80
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Well, with those conditions and meds it can be a real challenge tweaking things to get the weight moving down again. Phinney mentioned thyroid medication in particular as a challenge in the Long Term Stalls podcast with Jimmy Moore (google 'jimmy moore phinney long term stalls').

You might talk to your doc about adjusting your thyroid med dosage since you've lost 30 pounds.

I'd keep careful records with a food log and maybe a spreadsheet to track what you are eating, macro grams, weight, meds and whatever else you think might have an impact. Good records will afford you the opportunity to fine tune what you are doing.
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Old 03-28-2013, 11:04 AM   #81
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So I tried another fat fast yesterday because the day before I basically binged on nuts, cheese, had coconut chkn soup at a thai restaurant, and woke up 2-3lbs heavier
(I know it's water weight, though, because this morning I was back down to 140.)

Anyway, back to the FF. I was hungry all day long while FF'ing, despite spacing my meals out, but I remained strong until time for bed. I had approx 1200 calories (85-90% from fat, plenty of salt, tons of water) before I laid down around 10pm with my last meal being 1oz pate and a bowl of coconut bouillon soup at 9pm.

THEN I ate 2oz cream cheese w/ 1/2tb almond butter, 2oz of brie cheese, and a few pieces of 85% dark chocolate.

So, although I didn't FF exactly to the T with my calories being 1200 before "binge-time," I wonder why I was I so freaking hungry.

Could it be that I'm not yet really in Ketosis (sticks show trace-small amounts)? I'm an over-thinker and a perfectionist, and I'm scared to death that I was hungry due to muscles being burned for energy and that the incoming fat was being stored. WHICH could possibly still result in weight-loss.

Blah. I'll see how today goes with the hunger while I space out 5 meals of 300 calories each and try to meet my 88g protein requirement with the last 3 meals.

Btw, I'm 5'4", 140lbs, 26yrs old, and female.
I've been following an NK WOE for almost 3 weeks with a big slip-up 1 week in.
Also, I'm not exactly sure that my starting weight was 147 because I weighed on my sister's scale (who lives in Alabama, so going to check it now would mean a 4 hour drive).

I do a couple tap-dancing classes (not very aerobic), and maybe 1 cardio dance class every week, with at least one resistance-training class. (but the first 2 weeks of NK, I went to no classes and walked 2x/week.)

I'm on some meds for acne and adhd: Doryx (antibiotic), Spironolactone (supposed to reduce androgens that can lead to acne), a BCP, and Adderall.

I'm taking a a teaspoon or two of the Calm Magnesium powder in water, a probiotic, and B-complex daily. I know the Spironolactone interferes with potassium so I'm not supplementing with potassium though there is some in that Calm powder. Maybe I should find a new magnesium supplement.

Anyways, would love any of y'all's input/advice. I may post some of this to the big March thread as well.

Last edited by Green; 03-28-2013 at 11:07 AM..
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Old 04-22-2013, 12:54 PM   #82
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Curious if majority doing a FF tend to skip the workouts on FF days?

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Old 04-23-2013, 08:25 AM   #83
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Curious if majority doing a FF tend to skip the workouts on FF days?
Definitely. At least I do.
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Old 04-23-2013, 01:08 PM   #84
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Definitely. At least I do.
Why?

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Old 04-28-2013, 09:59 PM   #85
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Hi all. I was diagnosed insulin resistant in January, it's been 3.5 months and I have only lost 16lbs being on induction. I tend to stall a week or two the lose a lb or two over night. This week I'm going to start doing ff mon-wed, then the higher cal ff the rest of week to see if it helps keep my losses regular.
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Old 04-29-2013, 06:31 AM   #86
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A couple of questions about the fat fast. I read somewhere that fat fasting can be dangerous for some people, is this true? Also is it possible to do a fat fast just for one day or does it have to be 2 - 3 days in order for it to be effective?
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Old 04-29-2013, 06:44 AM   #87
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Hi all. I was diagnosed insulin resistant in January, it's been 3.5 months and I have only lost 16lbs being on induction. I tend to stall a week or two the lose a lb or two over night. This week I'm going to start doing ff mon-wed, then the higher cal ff the rest of week to see if it helps keep my losses regular.
Good luck with the ff, I hope it works for you. I'm also a slow loser with a similar loss pattern. There's a few of us turtles on the NK board.
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Old 04-29-2013, 10:10 AM   #88
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Why?

Glenn in Omaha
I mostly do resistance training for working out and know my muscles need protein and a little carbs to recover, so on days with protein and carbs being so low, the only kind of exercise I do is walk.
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Old 05-27-2013, 10:29 PM   #89
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When I did the FF I ate 5 small meals to keep hunger at bay. I ate 2 sb eggs with butter or hb eggs (or tuna) with mayo twice a day, and then 1 oz macademia nuts, 3 or 4 times. (any combo would work though). I always lost well when I did it and tried for at least 2 days. The next days I watched carbs and cals closely or did a meat and egg fast, that way it insured I kept off what I lost on the FF.

I haven't done the FF in several years though, but when I first did Atkins in 1999-2000, I stalled after the first 2 months. So after that everytime I stalled, even for a week, I would do the FF for 2 days, and that's how I was able to lose 75 lbs in about 6 months. I did the FF propbly 2-3 times a month. I eventually lost 117 lbs on low carb.

As you can see from my stats, it didn't hold in the long run. At the time I was grateful for the FF, now I think it keeps one from learning how to eat to maintain--which is the real goal, and can unfortunately end up being just another form of an eating disorder contributing to more yo-yo-ing!

So frankly I don't recommend it anymore. Slow and steady and eating as low carb 'normally' as one hopes to when one gets to goal, is the best course in my opinion. It's not a race, it's your health/life!


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Old 05-27-2013, 11:14 PM   #90
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So frankly I don't recommend it anymore. Slow and steady and eating as low carb 'normally' as one hopes to when one gets to goal, is the best course in my opinion. It's not a race, it's your health/life!.
I can see your point, but I'm having trouble following that advice. I lost a fair amount on low carb at first, then stalled for about 5 months. Going to NK lost me another 10, but I've been stalled out again for the last 3 months. I was looking at the FF thread, wondering if it would give me a boost. I've maintained my weight loss through the stall, but I'm wondering at what point I should give up and say, "I'm going to be this weight the rest of my life" and not be so limited in my diet.
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