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-   Nutritional Ketosis / High Fat, Low Carb (http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/nutritional-ketosis-high-fat-low-carb/)
-   -   Unna, come in please, question for you.... (http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/nutritional-ketosis-high-fat-low-carb/793574-unna-come-please-question-you.html)

Mimosa23 01-06-2013 06:07 AM

Unna, come in please, question for you....
Hi Unna,

Just saw that you are in Germany too!

I have been reading a lot here and was wondering whether you do testing for ketones. If so, where did you get everything? If not, do you feel NK is working for you even without this method of checking?

Thanks in advance for your answer!

unna 01-07-2013 01:22 AM

Mimosa: Many people would say that I don't do "NK" because I don't test my ketone levels. I was turned on to the idea of limiting protein and upping fat after I heard an interview with Phinney.... w/o hearing that, I would have never gotten over my fear of fat, and I would have kept eating too much protein.... so I give him credit.

I do loosely count my protein grams now, and my carbs are typically always around 20g. The scale is slowly (by the gram) moving downwards, and I do have the "ketosis taste" that is unmistakable. I'm also doing a lot of weight training at the moment - I'm more interested in toning than in losing muscle... so that is probably stalling my weight loss as well. But, I'm 5'9" w/ a medium build - and I'm not in Hollywood, so I realistically cannot expect to drop too much more weight.

But, I think it would be much harder if you wanted to find the material to test here. In general, nothing is "over the counter" in Germany. Everything requires a prescription.

I find Germany is a great place for low-carb weight loss, don't you? Yes- There are bread and pastries everywhere, but there are also butchers on every corner with quality meat and animal fat. They have higher standards here, and especially at a butcher. They also have amazing aged cheeses from Holland and France that are so affordable. The Italian marscapone is also great - a spoonful for dessert! Organic produce is very affordable here too. And exercise here is super easy, as you can walk or bike everywhere you need to go.

How long have you been in Germany? Where exactly in Germany are you? Do you have state health insurance?

I originally came to Germany because I wanted a graduate degree from a German university, and because I wanted to become fluent in German. Then, I met my husband at a bar! He's a typical "German Engineer" - but so stable and caring!

unna 01-07-2013 01:32 AM

btw, sorry I can't be of more help!

Hopefully someone else from Germany will pipe in. I skimmed through the German low carb forum sites: Your Page Title and Dišt Forum - Abnehmen mit Dišten von Atkins bis Low Carb , but the only thing they talk about are the ketostix (urine), which you can order on amazon.de.

Mimosa23 01-07-2013 01:48 AM

Hi Unna! Thanks for replying!

I think I'm the same as you: I won't get one of the blood ketone thingies as it probably won't get through customs here. I once ordered ordinary vitamins and had to leave half of them in customs. They are so strict here... Anyway, I am going to go by ratios and will follow Skaldeman's suggestions. Hopefully this will work!

I have been low carbing on and off for a looooooong time, so it shouldn't be that hard!

Do pop in to the UK/Europe challenge on the Challenges board, there's quite a few of us from all over the world, even another one in Germany!

I've been in Germany for 3 years now, moved here for work, and like you I met a nice German man, stable and caring, and now I'm staying here forever! Never been happier! (or fatter, darnit!) I am Dutch originally, but spent my adult life so far outside of the Netherlands: first university in the UK, then work there as well, after that Barcelona for a couple of years and now Germany. I must say I really love it here! Thankfully, I spoke some German before coming to live here, and now I'm pretty much fluent... No small thanks to my BF, of course!

Like you, I think the variety of food we can get is great, and lots of good local organic produce and meat too. I live near the biggest slaughterhouse in Europe, so meat is easy to get, LOL!

On the exercise front, we have a dog who needs lots of walking, so I am at the moment walking 45 minutes a day and will incorporate more and more varied exercise as I will become more keto adapted. As for walking and cycling everywhere, yes, that is what we do here, LOL!

I found the German forums quite uninformative, and since I've been here at LCF forever, I guess I feel most comfortable here.

BTW, I'm in NRW, in Guetersloh, is your username relating to the place you are in?

I have private insurance, which is a whole other loooooong post in how I finally managed to get any insurance at all... Bureaucracy, YUK!!!!

Thanks again for your reply, and hope to see you in the UK/Europe challenge!

xx Chloe.

unna 01-07-2013 02:00 AM

I love the Dutch! I'm in Muenster (simply like the name "Unna") - funny - we seem to only be an hour apart! We should meet in Enschede for a coffee sometime!

Btw, I also gained at least 20lbs after meeting my boyfriend, now husband. I have pictures of us traveling in Egypt at the height of our romance - I was so puffy from all the "romantic dinners" , I don't even look like myself. I'm just now starting to get back to normal.

I also find the German low-carb forums a bit disappointing.

Mimosa23 01-07-2013 02:20 AM

LOL! Love is not good for the figure! I gained about 40 lbs in the last two years... Terrible! BF is very supportive though, so hopefully I'll get this done once and for all. My BF is like your DH, he can eat anything and everything and stays the same... Very annoying!

Muenster is really round the corner, we definitely should try meet up one day! I have been meaning to make a day trip to Muenster, to see the sights, maybe we can meet for a coffee there!

Where are you from originally?

drjlocarb 01-07-2013 12:26 PM

Hi Mimosa.

Just popping in to say I sent 3 weeks in Guetersloh in 1980 in a high shcool exchange program. We lived with different families and went to school for 2 of those weeks. I loved every minute and loved the people there.

I wish I had been more mature at the time so I would have learned more about the food culture. We spent too much time looking for french fries and pizza (and beer).

Mimosa23 01-07-2013 12:51 PM


Originally Posted by drjlocarb (Post 16178663)
Hi Mimosa.

Just popping in to say I sent 3 weeks in Guetersloh in 1980 in a high shcool exchange program. We lived with different families and went to school for 2 of those weeks. I loved every minute and loved the people there.

I wish I had been more mature at the time so I would have learned more about the food culture. We spent too much time looking for french fries and pizza (and beer).

What a coincidence! My BF is born and raised here... I guess we will be staying here forever, LOL!
Did you enjoy it here?

unna 01-09-2013 12:10 AM

I would love to have a coffee sometime.

I don't know anyone here that is even doing low-carb. The fear of fat is so very, very real in Germany. Despite the cutting edge research, all the documentaries and other television programs about losing weight are based on doing tons of "SPORT" and eating fewer calories AND fat.

Cut to a person who is eating his morning breakfast, which includes:

-a whole grain bread roll w/ no butter, just organic fruit jelly
-a glass of orange juice
-and, a big bowl of mŁsli w/ a banana in some fruity yogurt.

This person then:
-puts on his jogging shoes and goes out for a long run

Anyway, that seems to be the current picture of health in Germany (at least on television). Although, everyone is getting a lot bigger here!

In general, the Germans seem to be very celiac-resistant. I'm saying this because there are SO many very, very old people here. My neighbors downstairs are 85 and 88. My landlord and his wife are also 85 and 86 - they still work in the garden everyday. These are people that ONLY ate bread after the war because they literally didn't have anything else. It doesn't seem like glutin has affected their health whatsoever.

But, of course, the following generations are getting quite obese and sick. So odd how one generation is so healthy, and the next are younger, but always at the doctor.

Mimosa23 01-09-2013 01:05 AM

You are so right! All my colleagues are also amazed at my foods, and are themselves not overweight, but often they are sick. And they are not old, most of them still in their 20s!!!

Did you see the documentary on ZDF the other evening? It discussed the 10 most popular diets in Germany. No mention of LC. All of them involved some calorie reduction and some even had hardly any fat or protein in them. Sad to see that Drs here are still towing the party line about fats...

The culture of breakfast and bread in general is huge here! When I told my parents in law that I was not eating bread, potatoes, pasta, rice or sugar they looked at me in shock and then asked what I was able to eat and whether I'd starve, LOL! I think the really old generation is healthy because like you said of the food shortages in the war and afterwards, and that now they still walk a lot and eat real foods generally.
My parents in law are both not super healthy; mother in law, although not overweight at all has type II diabetes and my father in law is overweight and has a whole host of issues. They eat a lot of bread (two of their three meals a day are based around bread) and other grain products and I would love to get them to join me, but I don't see that happening, ever!

I have bad knees, have had that for years and so I can't do impact like exercise like jogging and aerobics. This is like you said considered very desirable here. I like walking, weight training and bodyweight exercise. That is also considered not the norm here.

I have a couple of girl friends here who are both skinny fat. They do a lot of exercise, just too much cardio. They also eat a lot of carbs, and not so much fat. I think it should be so obvious, especially since both are experiencing several health problems. Neither wants to believe it's their diet.

I am going to have to lead by example!

unna 01-09-2013 02:15 AM

I find Germany has SO many documentaries about the obese health crisis. They always look at America as being the fattest, and then Great Britain is always second! A few documentaries and a recent issue of Spiegel have spotlighted the danger of sugar in everything. However, it stops there. Then, the documentary tells people they need to focus on eating whole grain carbohydrates, fruits, and vegetables. PERIOD.

Even if you've only had the most basic biology course, you know that carbohydrates and sugar are related. You would also know that fructose is also a form of sugar.

And none of the documentaries are talking about the role of insulin. I don't think anyone in Germany has read Taubes' book - they aren't even critiquing it.

Everyone here thinks you are absolutely crazy if you don't eat bread. It is a major faux pas.

My in-laws are starting to get very unhealthy as well, despite the fact that they are quite active cleaning or doing garden work. I truly think this is because of their obsession with saving money by shopping at Aldi (even though they have more than enough money to buy real food). The products they buy there have so many hidden sugars. They also hear so much conflicting advice on television. My MIL proudly told me yesterday that she ate a half a container of clementine oranges- she was happy because she knew fruit was healthy.

I also know tons of skinny fat women from my husband's friend circle. They love going to the fitness studio.... they go everyday.... but somehow, even after years of perfect behavior and eating, they still have tons of flab around the middle and no muscle in general. They only do cardio and eat the normal high carb "healthy" diet. If you were just looking at them, you'd never know that working out was their hobby. One friend recently got into marathon running. Everyone always says "Helga is so fit, she can run a marathon" - but if you look at her, she has absolutely no muscle, her posture is lacking, and she is steadily gaining around the mid-section.

Anyway, I'm not criticizing. I followed conventional wisdom for most of my life. I'm just super thankful that I've found a different way that works for me.

Mimosa23 01-09-2013 04:58 AM

One of my skinny fat girl friends is trying to convince me how healthy she is and she always is trying to tell me what to eat and what exercise to do, it's driving me crazy! It takes a lot of effort to stay polite... I think I need to take a break from our friendship for a while, as I feel I'm being pestered by her trying to impose her views on me.

I try not to talk about my WOE unasked. It is annoying for me when other people do this to me. I will however talk about it when people ask... I haven't been asked yet, got to get some weightloss results so people can see I'm losing weight.

Slowly wins the race, I'm in it for the long haul!

By the way, I found a pretty active german lchf forum. Just google it, it should be pretty much one of the first results. They have lots of recipes, etc, and it's nice to get some support from people in the same (grain)boat as us! I joined there, but probably my main go to place will always be here, because I've been here forever and it feels like home, LOL!

unna 01-09-2013 07:35 AM

I love when skinny friends - friends who have always been skinny and maybe at the most lost 10lbs in life - try to talk to you about how to eat healthy so you can become skinny like they are.......

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