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Old 01-01-2013, 01:24 PM   #1
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WOE: Nutritional Ketosis--Maintenance!
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January Nutritional Ketosis...Are you in the zone?

Welcome to the January Nutritional Ketosis thread! We’re loosely following the Phinney/Volek books, The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living and The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance, along with our own experiences of getting into and sustaining nutritional ketosis.

The main points for getting into NK are:
  • Find your correct protein gram range (there are several different formulas)
  • Find your correct carb gram range (under 50 grams, many find under 20 or 30)
  • Add fat to satiety and to your goals (will usually fall within 65%-85% of total calories)
You are putting your body into a state (nutritional ketosis) where it can easily access body fat for fuel. Part of your daily fat % will be made up from body fat so you do not have to have any particular percentage of fat from your diet. The most important thing is to get your protein and carb grams at the correct level to induce ketosis.

Just getting into ketosis does not guarantee weight loss, you must also be in an energy deficit. The Phinney/Volek Performance book advises that if you are in ketosis and eating fat to satiety and not losing weight you should lower your dietary fat.

Some of us are using a blood ketone meter to track our ketosis and adjust our macronutrients based on the readings. This process is described the the Performance book. While its not necessary, it can be very helpful especially to find carb and protein limits!

The original thread for Nutritional Ketosis on Low Carb Friends can be found here. The September thread can be found here. The October thread can be found here. The November thread can be found here. While there was no December thread, the current incarnation of the January thread also came out of this thread on testing blood ketones.

Here are a few links that you may find helpful:

NK recipe thread

Daily NK menus thread

Cheat Sheet

FAQ

Happy losing everyone!!
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February Nutritional Ketosis...Are you in the zone?
Nutritional Ketosis Thread Information and Posts of Interest
My Maintenance Journal
Original weight 2001--257 Maintaining 165-175 from 2002-March 2012
March 2012 to August 2012--175/150 Made Goal 8/27/12!
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Old 01-01-2013, 01:45 PM   #2
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Happy new year - this is a great group!
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Old 01-01-2013, 01:51 PM   #3
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Hi, Kristn!
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Old 01-01-2013, 02:00 PM   #4
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Old 01-01-2013, 02:22 PM   #5
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Thanks for starting the Jan NK thread Kristn. BTW. is there no vowel between the t and the n in your name?
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Old 01-01-2013, 02:27 PM   #6
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Old 01-01-2013, 02:32 PM   #7
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Rebecca! It's great to see you here again. How are things going?
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Old 01-01-2013, 02:36 PM   #8
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Lindsay--you should test your scale by holding something heavy (over 2 pounds) and stepping on the scale and then getting back on again without the heavy object. If it's one of the scales that doesn't record small differences in weight that should cause it to reset.
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Old 01-01-2013, 02:41 PM   #9
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Hello! I'm very interested in NK, it makes a lot of sense. I have never felt right eating too much protein. I downloaded a sample of the The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living last night but haven't looked at it yet. I've lost about 18 lbs. or so in 6 weeks just "winging it" but I think I need to start keeping track of what I eat more.

Concerns I have about NK include: 1) what tool(s) can I use to easily keep track of my macronutrients? I haven't loved the ones I've tried yet and I end up giving up when I have to enter a "custom" food. I'm not good at weighing out or measuring what I eat, or figuring out what is in recipes I make. 2) I am in keotsis according to urine testing, how important are blood ketone levels? Is the accuracy of the blood test worth the added cost? 3) How do I figure out my lean body mass? I looked at the links on the keto calculator and still couldn't figure it out since most of the pics were of body builders, and even when I entered the highest fat percentage they showed (50%) it still seemed like a huge amount of protein. Are there any other resources to figure this out?

I'm sure I'll have more questions as the month goes on!

Last edited by Mistizoom; 01-01-2013 at 02:46 PM.. Reason: typo
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Old 01-01-2013, 03:14 PM   #10
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Happy New Year everyone!!!! Happy Birthday Kristn!!!!!

Great job on the intro and the links, Kristn....it was great for me to revisit them!

Hi Rebecca...so good to see you again!

For the newbies...I'm a "science experiment" per Buffy....I'm following the plan, blood NK testing and....and instead of losing, I have gained 4# in 4 months doing this. I'm "Frustrated", but I'm not giving up...yet! I keep thinking I will pack it in and eat junk, but I'm determined to get to the 6 month mark that has been suggested to be what happens to "some" people...I'm guessing I'm that "some" person! ha ha I really messed up my body for years and years....ballet dancer that drank water instead of eating food.....ate fruit instead of protein, and never had fat unless on a rare occasion or by accident. Did that for the first 50 years of my life, so no wonder I'm in that "some" group!

Love everyone on the NK threads....so fun, so informative, such great ideas and conversations.

Welcome to the newbies! Don't be shy about asking questions as Kristn is great at answering them! (and others too!)

Misti...the urine ketone strips measure a different type of ketones than the blood test strips (FYI)....so they are fun, cheap, but rather useless for what we are doing unfortunately. We all started out that way....or most of us did (I did!!!)
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Old 01-01-2013, 03:20 PM   #11
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http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/nutritional-ketosis-high-fat-low-carb/792567-januar

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMCM1 View Post
Happy new year - this is a great group!
+1

my blood readings today
no exercise
food eaten in grams - fat 202, carbs 22, protein 60

AM fasting BK 0.2 - BS 5.1
PM BK 0.8 (yeehah back in ketosis)
BS 5.7

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Old 01-01-2013, 03:26 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistizoom View Post
Hello! I'm very interested in NK, it makes a lot of sense. I have never felt right eating too much protein. I downloaded a sample of the The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living last night but haven't looked at it yet. I've lost about 18 lbs. or so in 6 weeks just "winging it" but I think I need to start keeping track of what I eat more.
Mistizoom!

Quote:
2) I am in keotsis according to urine testing, how important are blood ketone levels? Is the accuracy of the blood test worth the added cost?
If you're losing on the plan you're on now then I wouldn't worry about it. Keep doing what works until it stops working!

Quote:
3) How do I figure out my lean body mass? I looked at the links on the keto calculator and still couldn't figure it out since most of the pics were of body builders, and even when I entered the highest fat percentage they showed (50%) it still seemed like a huge amount of protein. Are there any other resources to figure this out?
There are some sites where you can use your measurements to estimate BF%. They seem to vary by where the measurements are taken and where you carry your fat. The most accurate way is through DEXA, Bod Pod, or hydrostatic (underwater) testing.

On the original NK thread we used our goal weights and LBM to do the calculations rather than current. The thinking is that we want to eat to our goals rather than where we are now. Try plugging your goals into the calculator to see what protein number you get.

Also, my personal experience is that I have to stay at the lower end of the range given by the keto calculator. Their recommended protein amount is above the level that kicks me out of ketosis (as shown on the blood meter). At this lower level I have been able to lose fat and gain LBM. YMMV.
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Old 01-01-2013, 03:40 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mom2zeke View Post
Lindsay--you should test your scale by holding something heavy (over 2 pounds) and stepping on the scale and then getting back on again without the heavy object. If it's one of the scales that doesn't record small differences in weight that should cause it to reset.
Good idea! But instead of holding something, I just weighed myself - knowing I'm bound to be heavier in the late afternoon than first thing in the morning. I weighed 146.2, so that is a pretty good sign to me that it doesn't require a change of a full 2 pounds to register a difference. (144.4 to 146.2 is just shy of 2 pounds!)

I guess it's certainly possible that the scale is programmed in a similar way (must be a significant change before showing a different weight), but its tolerance is 1 pound instead of 2. Just theorizing!
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Old 01-01-2013, 03:50 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mom2zeke View Post
Mistizoom!

If you're losing on the plan you're on now then I wouldn't worry about it. Keep doing what works until it stops working!

There are some sites where you can use your measurements to estimate BF%. They seem to vary by where the measurements are taken and where you carry your fat. The most accurate way is through DEXA, Bod Pod, or hydrostatic (underwater) testing.

On the original NK thread we used our goal weights and LBM to do the calculations rather than current. The thinking is that we want to eat to our goals rather than where we are now. Try plugging your goals into the calculator to see what protein number you get.

Also, my personal experience is that I have to stay at the lower end of the range given by the keto calculator. Their recommended protein amount is above the level that kicks me out of ketosis (as shown on the blood meter). At this lower level I have been able to lose fat and gain LBM. YMMV.
Thanks for the info! I think I won't worry about blood ketones then for right now. It makes a lot of sense to use goal weight (or ideal weight perhaps?) to calculate lean body mass. I will also stick to the low end of the protein recommendations as I definitely do not have any extra muscle mass to worry about right tnow.
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Old 01-01-2013, 03:55 PM   #15
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Well that was weird that the two groups got merged for a little while! Thanks to Dottie for disentangling them.
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Old 01-01-2013, 04:00 PM   #16
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We seem to have lost the keto-calculator link. I didn't think that it violated the TOS here, but maybe I'm missing something? Anyway, google keto calculator and you should come up with the link. You don't need to register to use it and it is version 3.12 if that helps.
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Old 01-01-2013, 04:05 PM   #17
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Lindsay--well, at least you know that it will register a change.
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Old 01-01-2013, 04:13 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mom2zeke View Post
We seem to have lost the keto-calculator link. I didn't think that it violated the TOS here, but maybe I'm missing something? Anyway, google keto calculator and you should come up with the link. You don't need to register to use it and it is version 3.12 if that helps.
Here are a couple of links that might help explain what is (or isn't) allowed and, as always, please contact the site (link at the bottom of any page) and ask if you (general "you" lol) aren't sure
Low Carb Friends - Announcements in Forum : Main Lowcarb Lobby
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http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/ma...available.html
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Old 01-01-2013, 04:19 PM   #19
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I did find a reference to the "reference weight" we were wondering about. They reference back to "The New Atkins For A New You". I don't have the book, so maybe someone can look that up for us if you have the book.

Another question we had was why they don't like MCT oil. It seems they would rather people use the CO in order to get the full health benefits of CO rather than just the MCT part.

Mistizoom!

No need to test if it's working for you as is.
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Old 01-01-2013, 04:22 PM   #20
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Old 01-01-2013, 04:43 PM   #21
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Old 01-01-2013, 05:01 PM   #22
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Thank you Zay, Shelley, Sophie, Buffy, Lindsay, Cathy, Maureen, and Judy (and anyone I missed) for the birthday wishes!!

And happy birthday Maureen! I hope you had a fantastic one.
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Old 01-01-2013, 05:16 PM   #23
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No time to read right now, but thanks for starting the thread and HAPPY BIRTHDAY, Kristn.
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Old 01-01-2013, 05:22 PM   #24
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Happy new year all. Just checking in to say hi.

It's very interesting that Protein and Carbs can contribute to creating glycogen and potentially hinder weight loss or actually cause weight gain. I say it's interesting because if you decrease these (especially protein) one would likely eat more fat naturally to become satiated. Yet..... Phinney says lesser fat (within reason for this WOE) can cause the body to use it's stored fat for fuel. It's all seemingly so scientific and the hardest part is finding what works for YOU! I remember when i first did atkins a million years ago i just ate whatever i wanted that was meat/fat and lost a lot of weight! Here i am EONS later trying to be a scientist of my body. Anyway - for me, i have not started tracking again, but i've still been sticking with it, but i think it's time that i started to track and stopped slacking off, because i want some success. To help out i started reading the Living book a bit ago, i'm a slow reader, so only about a 1/4 into it, but i read every day!

Happy new year all. grrr

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Old 01-01-2013, 05:27 PM   #25
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Love the title!!

I had some time today to read Dr. Peter Attia's blog on ketosis (101 and 102). Very interesting!!

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Old 01-01-2013, 06:45 PM   #26
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Old 01-01-2013, 07:53 PM   #27
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Just got some keto strips and a new meter so checking in. Mostly a lurker but appreciate all that share here. I'm a long term maintainer and follow this diet for diabetes management.
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Old 01-02-2013, 07:04 AM   #28
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Good morning fat burners!

I had my yearly off-plan meal yesterday. As always, Chinese food, chocolate cake, and ice cream. I did not hold back

Today my ketones were .2 (the same as they were the last time I measured 2 days ago).
My weight was up 2 lbs to 147.6.

My plan is to go back to normal eating today and see how I am affected by the carb-fest and how long it takes to get back into ketosis.

How is everyone else today?
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Old 01-02-2013, 07:05 AM   #29
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Thanks for the birthday wishes Cici!

Thanks for checking in and delurking shunsweets!
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Old 01-02-2013, 07:15 AM   #30
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Kristin you have done so good!!im now 25 lbs from goal,any suggestions?right now I'm just eating meat and eggs with high fat seems to work..I try to eat 1200 cals do you think that's to little? Again you should be so proud of yourself stay around and help us get there to.
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