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Old 01-07-2013, 04:53 PM   #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tablis View Post
Thank you so much for trying to help me with this.. I'm just so frustrated bc I've been VLC and stalled for so long. Once I pass 48 hrs I am really able to follow any low carb variation to the letter so I don't mind whatever macros I'm given to adhere to... its just that I've already tried for so long and nothing is working. As I mentioned, immediately prior to my 10 weeks of NK I had done the Leptin reset for 6 weeks keeping my carbs and it also didn't do anything for me.... Even now when I went off plan it was a choice, It wasn't intense cravings that made me do it. (intense cravings only came after lol)

The contraints I was using for the last few weeks of NK were average 1500 cals, 65-85% fat, less than 30 total carbs and 55-60 gm protein. I think I got that from these forums but I'm a little confused now.
This actually sounds quite reasonable. But since it's not working for you, once you're over the LC flu it's time to try some new things.

Quote:
So what would you recommend I try next? How long should I try that scenerio before trying the next tweak if I remain stalled?
It would be great to see your ketone readings before making any changes. Also, can you remember what has worked for you in the past?

Here are some options to think about (that have worked for others) once you're in ketosis :
Lower your fat grams (perhaps 10 grams at a time to see if it makes a difference?)
Go down below 20 grams of carbs total (not net)
Intermittent fasting (keeping the same macros just eating within a window or only 1 or 2 meals/day)
JUDD within an NK/LC Framework
Other ideas???

I know that some people have had success upping their protein and/or fat. I am hesitant to suggest this as it has never worked for me, but others have had different experiences and it's always an option.

I think you should take a look at all the options and choose one that makes the most sense to you knowing what you know about yourself and give it a try for at least 2 weeks.

Quote:
I guess its just that I'd like to find a way to make LC work for me bc carbs don't agree with me yet I'm starting to feel a little on the crazy side for clinging to this for YEARS when I'm not losing. Does that make sense?
Absolutely! You should be able to lose, but for some people it takes more work and tweaking than others.
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Old 01-07-2013, 04:57 PM   #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjjcaveman View Post
Weight: 184 -> 182.8 -> 183.2
AM Ketones: 0.3 -> 0.4 -> 0.5

Stepwise progression into nutritional ketosis.. finally! Looks like I didn't fall off the wagon THAT badly if it took 3ish days to get back into the zone!

Here is my macro break down from yesterday
Fat: 170 gm (73%)
Protein: 107 gm (21%)
Carbs: 39 gm (7%)

How does this look to you guys?
Congrats on your am ketones! If it's working for you and you're in ketosis then it's a good plan.
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Old 01-07-2013, 04:59 PM   #213
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Low Carb Flu?

I had a terrible headache at work this morning. Granted, it was a pretty stressful morning, but the headache came out of the blue. Hopefully this means that I'll see better ketones tomorrow morning. And maybe a lower number on the scale? A girl can dream...
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Old 01-07-2013, 05:31 PM   #214
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Good to see you posting again cfine!
Thanks! I'm so glad to be back to doing NK.
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Old 01-07-2013, 05:56 PM   #215
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Originally Posted by mom2zeke View Post
I had a terrible headache at work this morning. Granted, it was a pretty stressful morning, but the headache came out of the blue. Hopefully this means that I'll see better ketones tomorrow morning. And maybe a lower number on the scale? A girl can dream...
Sorry to hear about your headache.

Do you still workout and do your kettlebell classes when you're feeling under the weather?
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Old 01-07-2013, 06:33 PM   #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mom2zeke View Post
This actually sounds quite reasonable. But since it's not working for you, once you're over the LC flu it's time to try some new things.



It would be great to see your ketone readings before making any changes. Also, can you remember what has worked for you in the past?

Here are some options to think about (that have worked for others) once you're in ketosis :
Lower your fat grams (perhaps 10 grams at a time to see if it makes a difference?)
Go down below 20 grams of carbs total (not net)
Intermittent fasting (keeping the same macros just eating within a window or only 1 or 2 meals/day)
JUDD within an NK/LC Framework
Other ideas???

I know that some people have had success upping their protein and/or fat. I am hesitant to suggest this as it has never worked for me, but others have had different experiences and it's always an option.

I think you should take a look at all the options and choose one that makes the most sense to you knowing what you know about yourself and give it a try for at least 2 weeks.



Absolutely! You should be able to lose, but for some people it takes more work and tweaking than others.
Really great advice and the only thing that I would add is that it might take quite a bit of time to come up with the right macros and then to adhere for the length of time it takes to get the results you are looking for. I have read that for some people, it can take up to 6 months.

I also think that if all else has failed, there may be some underlying physical problem that needs to be identified with the help of a physician.
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Old 01-07-2013, 06:38 PM   #217
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Originally Posted by mom2zeke View Post
Thanks for the information Phillip. Do you think that the CO before lifting makes a difference in your performance, or just the ketones?
Hard to say. Could be, though. Extra source of energy.

I had 3/4 of a TBSP of CO today, but my BK did not sky rocket -- it was 2.5 before the workout. Not sure why.

--
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Old 01-07-2013, 07:58 PM   #218
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does anyone experience crazy heart palpitations in ketosis?as if your heart wants to jump out if ts cage?what makes it go away?
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Old 01-07-2013, 08:15 PM   #219
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does anyone experience crazy heart palpitations in ketosis?as if your heart wants to jump out if ts cage?what makes it go away?
Yes.
Really bothers me.

All my bp #s and tests turned out OK but it REALLY bothers me.
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Old 01-07-2013, 11:47 PM   #220
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does anyone experience crazy heart palpitations in ketosis?as if your heart wants to jump out if ts cage?what makes it go away?
Check if you are getting enough magnesium and potassium/sodium. Also check if you are getting enough fluids.

I experience this when I am in ketosis and not getting enough from the above things... Hope this helps!

Also, exercising helps to get rid of the nervous energy feeling that comes with the palpitations. Just go for a brisk walk, that should already alleviate the symptoms...

Of course it could be something else entirely that you should check with your Dr....
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Old 01-08-2013, 04:26 AM   #221
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testing during the day over .5 means you're in ketosis? I tested this morning for the first time in a long time and was .3 - so if i test tonight or today during the day (when is best?) it will mean ketosis ? i thought anything over .1 is ketosis ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mom2zeke View Post
Good morning everyone!

Myles--ketosis (as defined by the Performance book) is blood readings over .5, with the "ideal zone" being ~1.5-3.
when should i test as a non fasting test after dinner? before dinner? lunch? just to see the results one time from food .. and what does it mean?
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Old 01-08-2013, 04:32 AM   #222
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Morning BK

1.8 mM. My last CO was 3/4th of a TBSP at 2:30PM yesterday with my broth.

I made a frittata on Sunday. It was good. Might go to the store to get ingredients to make it again today.

--
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Old 01-08-2013, 04:37 AM   #223
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I'm still not testing because I am still strugglin to get the protein under control again. I seriously overate fat and protein the week before Christmas and gained 5 pounds. In spite of getting something of a grip on Christmas day, I have only lost 2 pounds of the 5!

I did finally find an endo (she is a DO) who may be willing to work with me to sort out a lot of issues. Two thyroid panels have turned up mostly normal but with free T3 being 2.2 with a lab base of 2.0 so I'm fairly low in that area. I also have a lot of hypo symptoms.

I hope to start testing next week to see if I am even close to NK.
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Old 01-08-2013, 05:18 AM   #224
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It looks like you did a pretty good job making it through! My numbers are always higher around TOM.

for rest days!! And what is up with that scale? Can you use it without "registering" yourself? Just as a scale. I no longer log-in to my scale since I only use it for weight.
I don't know, but I'm pretty happy with my scale this morning! I finally got a lower reading: 143.2, plus the BF% was 28.8% (whatever that's worth!).

Yes, I started testing it without registering me as a specific user a couple of days ago, just to compare that weight with the ones under Users 1 and 2 (User 2 is me as well, but set up in athletic mode). I did see a little discrepancy yesterday: the "no user" weight was 145.6 (I think?), but after I tested it under User 1 at 144.4, the no user weight was also 144.4 the next time. So of course, I logged in the lower weight. Surely that first one was just a fluke, right?? Ha ha. But today, I weighed without logging in as a user first, and it showed 143.2. I thought - okay, I'm definitely logging that in, even if I get something else under User 1. But then the weight was 143.2 for User 1, too!

Also, this morning's ketones are up to 1.9 (from 1.2 yesterday morning). Oddly enough, I have not experienced a ketone dip (yet) related to TOM this month. TOM is still here and probably will be for another couple of days.

I forgot to mention that I'm still somewhat sore, so maybe even the new low weight is a little inflated! I did work out yesterday but am taking today off. Yesterday's workout was Tabatacise, and I jumped in and did the whole workout (you're supposed to start out with just one Tabata and build up to the whole workout eventually, but I am a sucker for punishment!). After a thorough warmup, it's a total of 5 Tabatas that are really about 6 minutes each, rather than 4. The first 4 minutes of each section follow the strict 20/10 Tabata protocol, but after your heart rate recovers slightly, you use the Step for a "recovery blast" - which is easier than a Tabata, but not really much of a recovery! After that, you genuinely recover for several seconds before moving on to the next 6-minute Tabata section. Somewhere in the middle of the fourth Tabata I started questioning my sanity. It was definitely the toughest cardiovascular workout I've done in a long time!

Hope everyone else has a wonderful and very successful stall-breaking day!!
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Old 01-08-2013, 06:03 AM   #225
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Originally Posted by bjjcaveman View Post
Sorry to hear about your headache.

Do you still workout and do your kettlebell classes when you're feeling under the weather?
It depends. My headache had dissipated by last night so I went to kettlebells.

Myles--I don't count myself in ketosis unless my morning ketones are above .5. Since this is all new territory, we're each just doing our own experiment--there is no one right way to do it. The reason I tested in the afternoon on Sunday was because I wasn't getting good morning ketones, but I felt like I was in ketosis in the afternoon. I was just confirming this with the strips.

Lindsay--Congratulations on your loss and the great ketones!!
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Old 01-08-2013, 06:04 AM   #226
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Originally Posted by Mimosa23 View Post
Check if you are getting enough magnesium and potassium/sodium. Also check if you are getting enough fluids.

I experience this when I am in ketosis and not getting enough from the above things... Hope this helps!

Also, exercising helps to get rid of the nervous energy feeling that comes with the palpitations. Just go for a brisk walk, that should already alleviate the symptoms...

Of course it could be something else entirely that you should check with your Dr....
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Old 01-08-2013, 06:08 AM   #227
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I'm still not testing because I am still strugglin to get the protein under control again. I seriously overate fat and protein the week before Christmas and gained 5 pounds. In spite of getting something of a grip on Christmas day, I have only lost 2 pounds of the 5!

I did finally find an endo (she is a DO) who may be willing to work with me to sort out a lot of issues. Two thyroid panels have turned up mostly normal but with free T3 being 2.2 with a lab base of 2.0 so I'm fairly low in that area. I also have a lot of hypo symptoms.

I hope to start testing next week to see if I am even close to NK.
I'm sorry to hear that you're struggling. It's good that you found an endo that you may be able to work with. I feel terrible when my T3 is that low.

It's so frustrating that weight is so much harder to lose than to gain. I'm still up from where I'd like to be after one meal a week ago. Granted, it was an over-the-top carb fest, but still.
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Old 01-08-2013, 06:12 AM   #228
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Good morning everyone!

Post off-plan meal (Tuesday 1/1) getting back into ketosis stats:

Wed: Ketones .2, Weight 147.6
Thurs: Ketones .2, Weight 148.2
Fri: Ketones .1, Weight 148
Sat: Ketones .2, Weight 147
Sun: Ketones .3, Weight 147.2, pm ketones 1.6
Mon: Ketones .3, Weight 147.2
Tues: Ketones, .8, Weight 147

I'm not sure if my headache was low-carb flu yesterday, but I definitely saw a jump in ketones this morning! Now if I could only get back down to 145. I did lower my fat yesterday to get my total calories in the 1500 range (keeping protein and carbs constant). Since my maintenance is ~2000 I hope that this gives me enough of a deficit to get my weight moving back down.
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Old 01-08-2013, 06:17 AM   #229
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Originally Posted by Mimosa23 View Post
Check if you are getting enough magnesium and potassium/sodium. Also check if you are getting enough fluids.

I experience this when I am in ketosis and not getting enough from the above things... Hope this helps!

Also, exercising helps to get rid of the nervous energy feeling that comes with the palpitations. Just go for a brisk walk, that should already alleviate the symptoms...

Of course it could be something else entirely that you should check with your Dr....
I actually am not certain my heart feels like it's beating out of its chest due to NK - it has increased due to NK.

I do feel much better when I'm up, moving around, walking briskly, etc.
I have half an avocado nearly each day, plus take a couple of potassium supplements.

I take 2-400mg. tablets of magnesium glycinate every evening.

I am freshly officially in menopause and I very often see 'heart palpitations' as one of the symptoms. So it's hard for me to separate the cause from the effect. It's unnerving, though.
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Old 01-08-2013, 06:28 AM   #230
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I actually am not certain my heart feels like it's beating out of its chest due to NK - it has increased due to NK.

I do feel much better when I'm up, moving around, walking briskly, etc.
I have half an avocado nearly each day, plus take a couple of potassium supplements.

I take 2-400mg. tablets of magnesium glycinate every evening.

I am freshly officially in menopause and I very often see 'heart palpitations' as one of the symptoms. So it's hard for me to separate the cause from the effect. It's unnerving, though.
Heart palpitations are also a symptom if your thyroid is off (low or high).
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Old 01-08-2013, 06:32 AM   #231
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Heart palpitations are also a symptom if your thyroid is off (low or high).
Yep (thanks for reminding me) and as I say probably too often, I've just started all that bloodwork/thyroid medication/adjusting. I should be patient, but it's much easier to complain.
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Old 01-08-2013, 06:37 AM   #232
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NK and Salt - You must have it!

This thread talks about the importance of salt in a LC diet.

Notice the importance of potassium for nerve and muscle function. The heart is a muscle and VERY sensitive to potassium levels in the body.

Could this be the issue with those on a ketogenic diet having heart palpitations?
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Old 01-08-2013, 06:39 AM   #233
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Lindsay-- Great news.
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Old 01-08-2013, 06:51 AM   #234
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NK and Salt - You must have it!

This thread talks about the importance of salt in a LC diet.

Notice the importance of potassium for nerve and muscle function. The heart is a muscle and VERY sensitive to potassium levels in the body.

Could this be the issue with those on a ketogenic diet having heart palpitations?
Exactly. It's one of the things that adds to my worry.
I keep telling my DH how healthfully I am eating and then secretly worry I'm damaging my heart. So I do supplement with avocados and a couple of 99mg. tablets - I know the tablets aren't much, but I feel like I'm doing something.

Honestly, at least for me, and having been thoroughly checked out several times for the heart issue, it's probably a multitude of things at once, NK being only a small part of it.

I could walk more, I'm sure.
I sure hate to disturb all the dust on my treadmill...
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Old 01-08-2013, 07:06 AM   #235
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Exactly. It's one of the things that adds to my worry.
I keep telling my DH how healthfully I am eating and then secretly worry I'm damaging my heart. So I do supplement with avocados and a couple of 99mg. tablets - I know the tablets aren't much, but I feel like I'm doing something.

Honestly, at least for me, and having been thoroughly checked out several times for the heart issue, it's probably a multitude of things at once, NK being only a small part of it.

I could walk more, I'm sure.
I sure hate to disturb all the dust on my treadmill...
Getting enough sodium will help to spare the potassium. Are you salting liberally?
I have extra dust if you are worried about disturbing yours.
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Old 01-08-2013, 07:09 AM   #236
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Getting enough sodium will help to spare the potassium. Are you salting liberally?
I am. And I have added broth nearly daily (which tastes great with slices of avocado floating in it, I might add).


Quote:
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I have extra dust if you are worried about disturbing yours.


I just worry mine is gaining strength!
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Old 01-08-2013, 07:16 AM   #237
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You may already be aware of this podcast, but I am listening to a very interesting "ask the experts" interview with Mark Sisson on the subject of ketosis. Mark explains the keto-adaptation process. He says that when we first go into ketosis and start producing ketones, we don't necessarily have the machinery in place yet to burn those ketones so we just release them in our breath, urine, etc. It is not until the keto-adaptation process is completed that our body can actually use the ketones as fuel. I'm wondering if that explains why some people have an initial drop in weight, mostly water, then no significant weight loss for awhile. I wonder if significant weight loss won't start up again until the keto-adaptation process is complete. He does not say this - it is pure speculation on my part.

Mark also makes clear that to lose weight in ketosis, we need to reduce our fat intake. He says that the body will go into its fat stores when it can't get enough fat from dietary sources. To prompt it to do that, we need to cut back on fat after we are keto-adapted.

I'm still listening to this - it is very interesting and understandable. He is also going to talk about the effect of too much protein.
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Old 01-08-2013, 07:34 AM   #238
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Good morning everyone!

Post off-plan meal (Tuesday 1/1) getting back into ketosis stats:

Wed: Ketones .2, Weight 147.6
Thurs: Ketones .2, Weight 148.2
Fri: Ketones .1, Weight 148
Sat: Ketones .2, Weight 147
Sun: Ketones .3, Weight 147.2, pm ketones 1.6
Mon: Ketones .3, Weight 147.2
Tues: Ketones, .8, Weight 147

I'm not sure if my headache was low-carb flu yesterday, but I definitely saw a jump in ketones this morning! Now if I could only get back down to 145. I did lower my fat yesterday to get my total calories in the 1500 range (keeping protein and carbs constant). Since my maintenance is ~2000 I hope that this gives me enough of a deficit to get my weight moving back down.
What a big ketone jump!

Looks like your body just flipped a switch doesn't it?
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Old 01-08-2013, 07:35 AM   #239
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Originally Posted by UnstrungHarp View Post
I forgot to mention that I'm still somewhat sore, so maybe even the new low weight is a little inflated! I did work out yesterday but am taking today off. Yesterday's workout was Tabatacise, and I jumped in and did the whole workout (you're supposed to start out with just one Tabata and build up to the whole workout eventually, but I am a sucker for punishment!). After a thorough warmup, it's a total of 5 Tabatas that are really about 6 minutes each, rather than 4. The first 4 minutes of each section follow the strict 20/10 Tabata protocol, but after your heart rate recovers slightly, you use the Step for a "recovery blast" - which is easier than a Tabata, but not really much of a recovery! After that, you genuinely recover for several seconds before moving on to the next 6-minute Tabata section. Somewhere in the middle of the fourth Tabata I started questioning my sanity. It was definitely the toughest cardiovascular workout I've done in a long time!

Hope everyone else has a wonderful and very successful stall-breaking day!!
What does TOM mean?

Congrats on consistently high ketone readings!

Also just reading about the Tabata work out is making sweat! I'm destroyed after 2 tabatas already... and your'e doing 5? You must be in phenomenal shape!
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Old 01-08-2013, 07:38 AM   #240
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