January Nutritional Ketosis...Are you in the zone?

[drjlocarb]

BigRunner--

How exciting!

[mom2zeke]

SFgirl99--how was your soup?? Mine was amazing and there is only one bowl left after the boys were through with it. DH is also feeling much better (thanks to Buffy's soup).

bjjcaveman--yes, chilli can be very carby depending on how it's made. Even without the beans, concentrated tomatoes, onions, spices, etc. can really add up.

Cathy--you're getting great ketones! Are you planning any changes to get the scale moving, or just sticking with what you're doing?

Cathy & BigRunner--I am also one who never thought to track protein. But I am so glad that it finally sunk into my thick skull. LOL--apparently it takes me a while!

BigRunner--congratulations on your success!!

Becky--I am so sorry that you're feeling ill. There are lots of viruses going around right now. Take care of yourself and hopefully you'll be feeling better soon.

[JMCM1]

Cathy, awesome ketones. Hope the weight loss follows!
Runner - weight loss makes it all worthwhile. Glad your strips are coming - just another piece of the puzzle.
Caveman it does seem too much protein is a piece of some of our puzzles. As Kristn says, "low carb high protein works until it doesn't."
Becky it seems there is some stomach virus EVERYWHERE. Hang in there.
Now off to find some other analogy than puzzles.

[mom2zeke]

Post off-plan meal (Tuesday 1/1) stats:

Wed: Ketones .2, Weight 147.6
Thurs: Ketones .2, Weight 148.2
Fri: Ketones .1, Weight 148
Sat: Ketones .2, Weight 147
Sun: Ketones .3, Weight 147.2

This is a very slow process getting back into ketosis! I have been pretty hungry and eating lots of fat so I'm not surprised that the scale isn't moving. I do feel like I'm getting into ketosis in the afternoons, but I haven't tested yet. I may do a test this afternoon to get more information about what's happening with afternoon/evening ketones.

How is everyone else this morning?

[clackley]

Big runner, awesome results!!

I have not lost any weight in the past 3 or so wks. and have been pretty compliant with my plan so I now think I need to lower fat a bit and see what happens. Question: how does one do that and not be hungry all the time? Can intermittent fasting be a tool?
Currently, I shoot for about 90g but often exceed it by 10 to 20g. Such as today and yesterday - avocados are bigger, the bacon was a bit thicker and that sort of thing that takes me over my goal.

Interestingly, I have become quite good at keeping protein well within my goals.

[Buffy45]

Morning everyone.
Wow, some very good reports on here today on ketone readings, weight moving downward, so happy to read these things. And, very happy for the ones of you who have tried my chicken broth and liked it.

I did leave out one important point on that. Judy answered the other questions, about leaving the fat on the broth after it cools and that it can cook quickly, I just like the slow simmering process for some reason.

OK, when you are pulling the chicken off the bones, you are going to have pieces of chicken skin. For those of you who like the crispy brown skin off of a roast turkey, chicken, etc., save those pieces of skin. When you are done, cover a shallow pan with non-stick foil, sprinkle some salt, pepper and a little paprika or poultry seasoning on the foil, then lay out each piece of skin on the foil, repeat seasonings. Don't get too liberal with the salt like I did one time. Put in a 350 or so oven, watch carefully and when it is crisp and browned, pull it out. Yummo!

Cathy, if you are looking at lowering your fat right now, please ignore the above idea

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by clackley

I have not lost any weight in the past 3 or so wks. and have been pretty compliant with my plan so I now think I need to lower fat a bit and see what happens. Question: how does one do that and not be hungry all the time? Can intermittent fasting be a tool?
Currently, I shoot for about 90g but often exceed it by 10 to 20g. Such as today and yesterday - avocados are bigger, the bacon was a bit thicker and that sort of thing that takes me over my goal.

Interestingly, I have become quite good at keeping protein well within my goals.

Hi Cathy--your numbers seem pretty low already--what is your goal weight and are you close to your goal? Do you exercise at all? It may be that tightening up those 10-20 grams of fat or going out for a long walk every day would be enough to get things moving again.

And I know that you've tried a lot of things, so I'm hesitant to offer suggestions, but have you tried upping your fat to see what happens? Your numbers seem so low to me to be stalled out and in ketosis.

[bjjcaveman]

Big Runner - Way to go man! I think giving up the artificial sweeteners is a good way to go. I know I referenced this before in a prior post, but I'll do it again. In this experiment this person tracked his ketones for 6 hours after drinking a bottle of pepsimax, and saw that it dropped his ketones! In the end he wasn't sure if it was the artificial sweetener or the caffeine that did it.. but it something caused his ketones to drop. Something to consider.

mom2zeke - Keep us posted on your afternoon ketones! What do you feel that helps you suspect that you are in ketosis in the afternoons? I think I'm also in your boat.. I'm feel like I'm trying to climb back into the nutritional ketosis range.

Weight: 184 -> 182.8
AM Ketones: 0.3 -> 0.4
AM Blood Glucose: 89 -> 79

I'm wondering if I didn't have the chilli last nite, if I would be in the range today! Oh well today is another day. I suspect if I continue to follow a good diet today I'll be in the range tomorrow... its seems like when my fasting blood sugars are lower (in the 70s) I'm usually close to or completely in the nutritional ketosis range.

Also it looks like I was able to drop 1.2 lbs of water weight. Before my holiday binder, while in ketosis, my weight was in the 179-180 range, so I expect I have a few more lbs of water weight left.

[Buffy45]

Yesterday for lunch I had a steak salad with ranch, then at a party later, I had avocado topped with some cheese and sour cream. Last night, I had egg salad following by a LC brownie. Lots of water as I felt dehyrated. Ketones this am were 1.2 which is high for me. I think all that fat yesterday , not sure but always makes me feel good to see them over 1.

Weight the same. Kind of figure I will just maintain this month since I lost so well last month and I am fine with that. My appetite is back too, I think part of my success in Dec. was the fact that I was so un-hungry that a lot of days I just almost had to make my self eat some protein at least to keep that from going too low but I am sure my calories some days were pretty low. I don't advise that, just stating how it fell. I say keep your calories as high as you can as long as you see a downward trend, so that you can make this a lifestyle, not a diet.

[bjjcaveman]

mom2zeke - You had recommended to me a ketone-calculator site when I first wandered over here.. I'm trying to find it again but can't seem to locate the link.

Anyway you could point me in the right direction?

[bjjcaveman]

I say keep your calories as high as you can as long as you see a downward trend, so that you can make this a lifestyle, not a diet.

This is one of the best things I've heard! I'm still trying to find the right balance for me where I don't get the monster hunger pangs that I have to fight off... it's a big drain on will power... and makes it easier to fall off the wagon.

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by bjjcaveman

mom2zeke - You had recommended to me a ketone-calculator site when I first wandered over here.. I'm trying to find it again but can't seem to locate the link.

Anyway you could point me in the right direction?

We're not allowed to post the link here, but you can google keto calculator and you should come up with the link (for me it's the first one when I google). You don't need to register to use it and it is version 3.12 if that helps.

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by bjjcaveman

mom2zeke - Keep us posted on your afternoon ketones! What do you feel that helps you suspect that you are in ketosis in the afternoons? I think I'm also in your boat.. I'm feel like I'm trying to climb back into the nutritional ketosis range.

This may sound weird, but it's a tingly feeling that I get that signals that I'm losing (and possibly in ketosis--I haven't tested it, will do so today). I also get light headed if I don't get enough salt.

Weight: 184 -> 182.8
AM Ketones: 0.3 -> 0.4
AM Blood Glucose: 89 -> 79

I'm wondering if I didn't have the chilli last nite, if I would be in the range today! Oh well today is another day. I suspect if I continue to follow a good diet today I'll be in the range tomorrow... its seems like when my fasting blood sugars are lower (in the 70s) I'm usually close to or completely in the nutritional ketosis range.

Also it looks like I was able to drop 1.2 lbs of water weight. Before my holiday binder, while in ketosis, my weight was in the 179-180 range, so I expect I have a few more lbs of water weight left.

Congratulations! It's great to see your numbers headed in the right direction.

[bjjcaveman]

Originally Posted by mom2zeke

We're not allowed to post the link here, but you can google keto calculator and you should come up with the link (for me it's the first one when I google). You don't need to register to use it and it is version 3.12 if that helps.

Great! Found it. Fiddling with the numbers as we speak... sorry one more question... I remember you saying something about inputting my desired weight and body fat% rather than my current weight and body fat% to get a more accurate number of macros..

Did I remember it correctly?

Because when I input my current numbers, it gives me the option to down-select my caloric intake for weight loss.

Thanks in advance.. you truly have a wealth of knowledge!

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by bjjcaveman

Great! Found it. Fiddling with the numbers as we speak... sorry one more question... I remember you saying something about inputting my desired weight and body fat% rather than my current weight and body fat% to get a more accurate number of macros..

Did I remember it correctly?

Because when I input my current numbers, it gives me the option to down-select my caloric intake for weight loss.

When we were first starting to figure this all out back in July it was suggested that we use our goal weight and BF% to figure out our protein requirements rather than current. The reasoning was that some larger people might want to lose some LBM while some smaller people might want to gain LBM and that using protein requirements of our goal might be a better way to achieve this.

You are so close to your goal that it probably doesn't make much of a difference in protein requirement and the weight-loss part of the calculator is pretty useful for coming up with the macros you need to get into an energy deficit.

[EllaP]

Originally Posted by clackley

Big runner, awesome results!!

I have not lost any weight in the past 3 or so wks. and have been pretty compliant with my plan so I now think I need to lower fat a bit and see what happens. Question: how does one do that and not be hungry all the time? Can intermittent fasting be a tool?
Currently, I shoot for about 90g but often exceed it by 10 to 20g. Such as today and yesterday - avocados are bigger, the bacon was a bit thicker and that sort of thing that takes me over my goal.

Interestingly, I have become quite good at keeping protein well within my goals.

I do a version of Intermittent Fasting with success. I typically do 20/4, which is 20 hours of no eating and then 4 with eating in it (4 pm to 8 pm). During those 20 hours it's not zero calories, as I do have coconut oil in coffee for breakfast/lunch and if I am hungry at lunch, I'll have a cup of broth. Most of the time the broth takes care of it - if not, I will eat an egg or two, changing my Intermittent Fasting to a 16/8 - sixteen hours off; 8 hours on. The reason I do this at all is because once I start eating, it triggers me to want more, so breakfast would create a long day of thinking about food. I'd rather save my day's allotment of food for one or two bigger meals close together than the all day long smaller ones. Though I haven't checked my ketones in a long time (no need to while eating the same and losing weight) they were consistently 1.8 to 4+, before morning coconut oil.

I typically eat 45 to 65 g protein, less than 20 net carbs. Calories can be anywhere from 900 to 1300+, depending on hunger, occasion and time left in the day. I find eating this way I am not really, really hungry at any point and if I'm busy doing something, I don't even think about food. Also, if I seem to stop losing, a day or two of nothing but meat, eggs and fats is a quick restart to losing. I'm closer to goal now so I've slowed to about 1/2 to 1 pound loss a week. Once I get to goal, I will start adding more protein and calories and test more, but for now I'm okay with what I'm doing.

Cathy, I think I've seen on some of your daily menus you eat Shirataki noodles.... I eat them almost every day with my evening meal. I find they are filling, make me feel like I'm having a bigger meal and I do like them. I dress them either with sour cream/parmesan/feta (any or all) (or for an Asian flair, sesame oil/sriracha sauce) and I add a protein. (For the best price, I buy the Konjac brand from their website and prefer them to the Miracle brand. My local haunts only carry them with Tofu and I want pure Konjac root)

[SFGirl99]

Originally Posted by mom2zeke

SFgirl99--how was your soup?? Mine was amazing and there is only one bowl left after the boys were through with it. DH is also feeling much better (thanks to Buffy's soup).

The soup was amazing, thank you! Can't wait to make the chicken broth (I made beef broth last night). I'm definitely adding butter from now on.

I'm glad your DH is feeling better!

[NKSL55]

Originally Posted by mom2zeke

Thanks, I just went and looked at that chart. I wonder about the difference between this and the Performance book which says that 3 millimolar is "about as high as most people eating a well-formulated ketogenic diet." I have definitely been higher than 3 millimolar myself when I was first testing, but I haven't seen those kind of numbers in a long time.

I started adding 1/2-1 TBSP of CO to broth before my lifting workouts recently. I have noticed that tends to crank my BK levels. I also tried some CO just before bed and that resulted in 5+ mM morning BK levels.

Actually Peter Attia was writing about those Veech et al. studies (may not have been published yet) where athletes on a non-ketogenic diet can attain 7 mM BK levels by taking ketone-ester compounds of that group's own design.

That is an extreme case, because hydrolysis of the ester linkage is all that is required to produce beta-hydroxybutyrate. But the medium chain triglycerides also provide a moderately easy path in the same direction.

--
Phillip

[BigRunner]

Originally Posted by clackley

Big runner, awesome results!!

I have not lost any weight in the past 3 or so wks. and have been pretty compliant with my plan so I now think I need to lower fat a bit and see what happens. Question: how does one do that and not be hungry all the time? Can intermittent fasting be a tool?

I don use intermittent fasting as a tool. I don't really plan it out, but it just happens some days.

For example, this morning I had a 10:30am kick boxing class. I don't like to east before exercise, so no breakfast. It's almost 1pm and I am just now thinking of eating something. It will be first food (other than coconut milk creamer) since about 6pm last night.

Since I'm not real hungry most of the time, I end up missing a meal here or there.

[tablis]

Originally Posted by mom2zeke

You can go back to any particular day using the calendar, but I find the process cumbersome (at least on the free version that I use). Transfering the data to excel works best for me too.


Hi tablis,
Just a few more questions to really get to the bottom of this. What is your current weight and goal weight? Are you on any medications? Have you been tested for thyroid and hormones? Also, could you list out the foods and quantities of a typical day's menu for you?

Hi- thanks for the response kristn. OMG I have been LC for so long I forgot how hard it is to restart... I know its just a matter of 48 or so hours to get thru and then it gets easier but the cravings and the headaches are doing me in. I just messed up again and I hope that tomorrow I can make it thru.. not that the carbs make me feel that great either... totally tired and brain fogged... uggh.But at the moment where I feel a headache, impatient etc a little taste of carb takes it away almost immediately.
We're all going thru winter stuff here, DH with pneumonia, DD an DS home sick with regular colds etc. haven't had much time to read and answer.
I'm not on any meds. I'm 5 feet small framed. my goal weight is 110 but I have been quite happy at 120-30 in the past. I am about 185 . probably more by tomorrow.

I haven't done a full thyroid panel yet. TSH was normal. I overtrained for a long time and I think I might have an adrenal thing going on but haven't checked it out yet.

I don't know how to paste this in from FD so that it comes out readable...
here's a typical day from NK...

3 Tbsp CO
3 Tbsp cocoa
4 tsps splenda

3 eggs
4 Tbsps canola oil

1 oz macadamia nuts

120 gms chicken breast
1.5 cup lettuce

3 to go packs of crystal lite

Total cals: 1573
fat, protein, carbs : 79.5/16.1/4.3
total carbs: 17.7
protein gms: 59.7

[BigRunner]

Originally Posted by bjjcaveman

Big Runner - Way to go man! I think giving up the artificial sweeteners is a good way to go. I know I referenced this before in a prior post, but I'll do it again. In this experiment this person tracked his ketones for 6 hours after drinking a bottle of pepsimax, and saw that it dropped his ketones! In the end he wasn't sure if it was the artificial sweetener or the caffeine that did it.. but it something caused his ketones to drop. Something to consider.

I do believe cutting the artificial sweeteners is making a difference. I have always had a sweet tooth. The cravings were always in the background no matter how low carb I ate. I was also a person that after every dinner would have a craving for a sweet of some kind. I just realized after just a week, that that "need" to have something sweet is all but gone.

For now, I am keeping the caffeine. I gotta have some vice.
Well that and an occasional Miller Lite.

[luigi_uk]

Morning only for blood reading

BK fasting 0.5
BS fasting 4.9

No exercise today

Evening urine ketone result 1.5 (anecdotal)

[JMCM1]

Great picture Luigi!

[clackley]

I stopped posting my stats because I felt like it made me look bad. People can make some very unkind remarks based on them and I can be very thin skinned at times. I have seen none of that here and everyone has been wonderfully supportive and kind. So here is my deal...

Starting weight, 228.5 (Oct. 2009), current weight, 174 and goal weight, anything below 140.

I hit 172.5 Oct 2010 and weight loss just stopped. So 56lbs. lost in just under 1 yr. and then the brick wall. I actually started gaining despite all efforts and this continued for a few months into N.K. (got up to 182).

I am thoroughly delighted that I have stopped gaining and relost 8 lbs. and berberine seems to have be a factor. I am almost out and will not be ordering more as it is mightily expensive for me on a tight budget. I decided that I needed to know for sure what my ketones were like. So time will tell ....

I am still pretty happy to be where I am now and will consider my options but I.F. seems the next logical move. Thank you for sharing all your ideas and personal experiences. It is really useful to me and I appreciate it!

[Buffy45]

Cathy, glad you are doing so well and glad you tried the berberine and now are going without, will help us to know if it is helpful or not. KUTGW

[luigi_uk]

Originally Posted by JMCM1

Great picture Luigi!

Thx, it was taken in 2001 , so not recent

[JMCM1]

Originally Posted by clackley

I stopped posting my stats because I felt like it made me look bad. People can make some very unkind remarks based on them and I can be very thin skinned at times. I have seen none of that here and everyone has been wonderfully supportive and kind. So here is my deal...

Starting weight, 228.5 (Oct. 2009), current weight, 174 and goal weight, anything below 140.

I hit 172.5 Oct 2010 and weight loss just stopped. So 56lbs. lost in just under 1 yr. and then the brick wall. I actually started gaining despite all efforts and this continued for a few months into N.K. (got up to 182).

I am thoroughly delighted that I have stopped gaining and relost 8 lbs. and berberine seems to have be a factor. I am almost out and will not be ordering more as it is mightily expensive for me on a tight budget. I decided that I needed to know for sure what my ketones were like. So time will tell ....

I am still pretty happy to be where I am now and will consider my options but I.F. seems the next logical move. Thank you for sharing all your ideas and personal experiences. It is really useful to me and I appreciate it!

Good heavens Cathy - VERY well done so far!

[JMCM1]

Originally Posted by luigi_uk

Thx, it was taken in 2001 , so not recent

HA HA! Mine's only 5 or 6 years old!

[cfine]

Yes Clackley, you have done a tremendous job!! Not many people can lose weight and keep it off!! You are doing great. And you just keep on going no matter what.

[JMCM1]

Originally Posted by cfine

Yes Clackley, you have done a tremendous job!! Not many people can lose weight and keep it off!! You are doing great. And you just keep on going no matter what.

ERMAGERSH that's a darling avi!!