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Old 01-05-2013, 10:40 AM   #121
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I continue to go very very slowly in the right direction..... A .2# loss on the scale and my ketones are up again....Thurs was .1, Friday was .2 and today was .3 At this rate I should be in ketosis by Monday or Tuesday.

Lindsay....I'm sorry to say that I agree with the others about too much exercise and what society has put in our brains about exercise, reducing calories, eating the food pyramid, and having whole grains for weightloss. WRONG! Exercise is good for posture, joints, etc., but too much breaks down the body. I know you are breaking up the body parts so they aren't used in consecutive days, but "too much is too much" for the body to tolerate all the stress you are putting it under. 2-3 days is good...more is going to cause issues down the road (just ask me....I used to do what you are doing, and now am "broken") Don't follow my example.
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Old 01-05-2013, 11:05 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by UnstrungHarp View Post


Thank you both for the advice...Kristn, I know you're tired of telling me the same thing over and over! It's just so hard for me to do. Actually, the idea of reducing or taking a complete break from workouts is not just unappealing but downright scary. I'm terrified of finding out that I'll gain weight when I stop exercising - as if all this work I've been doing for years is responsible for keeping me "merely" overweight as opposed to morbidly obese. ("Imagine how much I'd weigh if I didn't work out!" is a thought I've had many times through the years.)

I realize that way of thinking is probably 100% wrong. I've got to convince myself that taking a break for a couple of weeks does not mean I'm stopping forever, and cutting back to 4 or even 3 days a week is not wimping out. I'm supposed to be doing an experiment to find out what works for me, and all signs point to the fact that changing my workouts is the next logical step. Gonna give it some more thought and see what kind of compromise I can live with.
I had a thought while reading this but realize this is coming from a current non-exerciser (though in my late 30's I was compulsive exerciser - several hours daily). Have you had body fat measured? At the rate you are exercising, the difference between where you are and where you want to be weight wise could be mostly muscle in which case, you are not overfat, even if the scale comes in higher than you like. If you want to lose some muscle weight a different approach would be needed than for those of us with high body fat. I think changing your workouts would logically be part of that. If you are trying to get more definition, like body builders, I would check out what some of them are doing to get their body fat really low for competition. Anyway, just some thoughts off the top of my head.
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Old 01-05-2013, 12:07 PM   #123
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Hi Everyone -

I've been following your posts about nutritional ketosis with great interest for awhile now. I lost 5lbs in December by tracking my calories and macro ratios. I ordered a meter and strips and just started tracking my blood ketones. Over the holidays I definitely knocked myself out of NK - so Jan.1 I got back on plan. So I tested yesterday morning (after only 3 days of NK style eating) and was surprised to see 4.7 mmol. Last night we had a party and I ate 2 California rolls and a small piece of ice cream cake (among other low carb options). To my surprise I was at 5.2 this morning? Am I reading something wrong?? I usually test around 11AM in a fasted state. I guess the biggest test will be to see if my weight starts going down for me again.

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Old 01-05-2013, 12:27 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by cici52 View Post
I had a thought while reading this but realize this is coming from a current non-exerciser (though in my late 30's I was compulsive exerciser - several hours daily). Have you had body fat measured? At the rate you are exercising, the difference between where you are and where you want to be weight wise could be mostly muscle in which case, you are not overfat, even if the scale comes in higher than you like. If you want to lose some muscle weight a different approach would be needed than for those of us with high body fat. I think changing your workouts would logically be part of that. If you are trying to get more definition, like body builders, I would check out what some of them are doing to get their body fat really low for competition. Anyway, just some thoughts off the top of my head.
I had hoped that what you described would be the case (my weight being high due to muscle rather than fat), but I had my body fat tested with a DEXA scan at the end of November...it was way worse than I had prepared myself for (37.1%). So I would like to hang on to all of my LBM and see that scale number go down, signifying genuine fat loss. It's certainly possible that the BF% number would be slightly lower now, nearly 6 weeks after the DEXA. But I really haven't seen much difference in the way my clothes fit during the past 6 weeks....Some days I think so, then the next day I don't. I wish I was all the way to the point of merely wanting more definition like bodybuilders, but I've got a lot more fat to lose before I get to the detail work!
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Old 01-05-2013, 12:35 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by shelley View Post
I continue to go very very slowly in the right direction..... A .2# loss on the scale and my ketones are up again....Thurs was .1, Friday was .2 and today was .3 At this rate I should be in ketosis by Monday or Tuesday.

Lindsay....I'm sorry to say that I agree with the others about too much exercise and what society has put in our brains about exercise, reducing calories, eating the food pyramid, and having whole grains for weightloss. WRONG! Exercise is good for posture, joints, etc., but too much breaks down the body. I know you are breaking up the body parts so they aren't used in consecutive days, but "too much is too much" for the body to tolerate all the stress you are putting it under. 2-3 days is good...more is going to cause issues down the road (just ask me....I used to do what you are doing, and now am "broken") Don't follow my example.
I really do appreciate the advice, from all of you! I will need to keep reminding myself of what you've said every time I start guilt tripping myself next week on my "extra" rest days (I know it's gonna happen!).

I was gonna finish out this week with a Tabata workout today (), but I'm incredibly sore. You guys (and my screaming leg muscles) have convinced me to do some easy, relaxing yoga instead.

By the way, congratulations on the increasing ketones!!
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Old 01-05-2013, 12:40 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by mom2zeke View Post
Another anecdotal data point: Although I don't exercise as much as you, I ended up not taking kettlebell class (and not working out at home) for 2 weeks over Christmas and New Years. And by virtue of not being at work as much I cut back my walking and stair climbing by about half during this time. I was very nervous that I would gain but while I was on this break I saw my lowest weight ever, 143.2.
That is so encouraging!! If only I could know for sure ahead of time that I would have the same result, I believe I could stand to take two weeks off.
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Old 01-05-2013, 12:47 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robynn View Post
Hi Everyone -

I've been following your posts about nutritional ketosis with great interest for awhile now. I lost 5lbs in December by tracking my calories and macro ratios. I ordered a meter and strips and just started tracking my blood ketones. Over the holidays I definitely knocked myself out of NK - so Jan.1 I got back on plan. So I tested yesterday morning (after only 3 days of NK style eating) and was surprised to see 4.7 mmol. Last night we had a party and I ate 2 California rolls and a small piece of ice cream cake (among other low carb options). To my surprise I was at 5.2 this morning? Am I reading something wrong?? I usually test around 11AM in a fasted state. I guess the biggest test will be to see if my weight starts going down for me again.

Robynn
Robynn! What were your ketone readings like in December? Were your numbers this high? How much/little are you eating? I seem to remember reading that fasting or starvation level of calories will give very high ketone readings.

Anyway, it's great that you've been able to get back into ketosis so fast after going off-plan! Hopefully you'll see movement on the scale very soon.

If you feel comfortable, can you fill us in on more details? Your stats, what you've been eating that's working (grams, percentages, actual food, etc.)
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Old 01-05-2013, 12:47 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by clackley View Post
My very first blood ketone test this morning (within 1/2 hour of rising -would have been sooner only I flipped the dog food bowl with wet food in it and it splattered everywhere and then the dog vomitted - good thing I wasn't taking my b.p.!!) and the number was 2.1. My b.g. was also good at 4.4 (79.2).

So I guess the key is to keep the number in a good zone. How often do you all think is to test?
That's fantastic! keep up with whatever it is you're doing!

I started checking upon waking and right before bed... but I found that checking before bed was unreliable for me since due to my work schedule dinner would be just 2-3 hours before bed.. not long enough for my body to process the foods... so the reading probably reflected a lot of the food I ate rather than actual fat burning... so now I just settled for the AM.

I just got more ketone strips! finally! The past 5 days without my strips to keep me accountable... and with all the new year festivities and traveling, I fell off the wagon a tad...

Weight: 184.0
AM Ketones: 0.3
AM Blood Glucose: 89

I'm up 4 lbs from my last check 6 days ago... which I'm attributing to water weight from my falling off the wagon (hopefully) since my clothes don't feel any tighter.

Am diligently tracking my food again and will try to keep my macros inline.

Glad to see everyone is still doing well!
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Old 01-05-2013, 12:55 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by UnstrungHarp View Post
I had hoped that what you described would be the case (my weight being high due to muscle rather than fat), but I had my body fat tested with a DEXA scan at the end of November...it was way worse than I had prepared myself for (37.1%). So I would like to hang on to all of my LBM and see that scale number go down, signifying genuine fat loss. It's certainly possible that the BF% number would be slightly lower now, nearly 6 weeks after the DEXA. But I really haven't seen much difference in the way my clothes fit during the past 6 weeks....Some days I think so, then the next day I don't. I wish I was all the way to the point of merely wanting more definition like bodybuilders, but I've got a lot more fat to lose before I get to the detail work!
Ive lost track of what your typical work out routine is.. but does it incorporate resistance training and sprints?

Couple recent studies showing that those are better for fat burning than the typical cardio... if you are interested I can pull them up for you.

Also kettlebells are awesome . I have a 60lb kettlebell that I work with at home once or twice a week that just kills me. Doesn't take much time either.

and.. I guess it goes unsaid.. BJJ! Something to consider since it incorporates both aerobic and anaerobic work!

I've also read in a few places that the body actually does need time to rest so that it can resume fat loss. When placed under constant stress.. as with nonstop exercise, it goes into fat/energy preserving mode. If you give it a few days rest, or even a week, sometimes that's all that it requires to jump start the fat loss.

orrrrrrr... you could just do what Buffy is doing.
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Old 01-05-2013, 12:57 PM   #130
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One more question for you guys who use the Precision Xtra system.

Do your strips come with that "calibrator stick?"

How often do you calibrate it?

I've only been doing it once per box. I can't find anywhere in the instructions where they give any recommendation. They just say the calibration should be done and the lot numbers checked.
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Old 01-05-2013, 01:09 PM   #131
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Buffy--my soup is on the stove simmering.

bjjcaveman--it looks like there are a few of us trying to get back in the zone after holiday indulgences.
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Old 01-05-2013, 01:10 PM   #132
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Also kettlebells are awesome . I have a 60lb kettlebell that I work with at home once or twice a week that just kills me. Doesn't take much time either.
I was always skeptical, but I'm a kettlebell believer!
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Old 01-05-2013, 01:14 PM   #133
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Hi Kristn

I don't know what my levels were in December because I just got my meter - I was just tracking calories and macro percentages. Looking back at my records I ate 2000-2400 cals daily, with an average 85:5:10 ratio. I generally do bulletproof coffee (butter/MCT) in the morning, eggs/bacon/avocado/cheese for lunch, and some sort of meat/veg for supper with added fat like butter or sour cream. At some point in the day I also usually have coffee with HWC and a fat bomb. I'm 5'9 with a medium frame and weigh 255. I have been losing weight steadily on a LC diet over the past year and a half - a pregnancy in the middle stalled things though My highest weight ever was 299 in the summer of 2010.

Anyway, I was just surprised to see such high numbers. I can tell when I'm in NK from appetite suppression and energy. I definitely don't feel like I'm starving though
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Old 01-05-2013, 01:33 PM   #134
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Hi Kristn

I don't know what my levels were in December because I just got my meter - I was just tracking calories and macro percentages. Looking back at my records I ate 2000-2400 cals daily, with an average 85:5:10 ratio. I generally do bulletproof coffee (butter/MCT) in the morning, eggs/bacon/avocado/cheese for lunch, and some sort of meat/veg for supper with added fat like butter or sour cream. At some point in the day I also usually have coffee with HWC and a fat bomb. I'm 5'9 with a medium frame and weigh 255. I have been losing weight steadily on a LC diet over the past year and a half - a pregnancy in the middle stalled things though My highest weight ever was 299 in the summer of 2010.

Anyway, I was just surprised to see such high numbers. I can tell when I'm in NK from appetite suppression and energy. I definitely don't feel like I'm starving though
Thanks so much for sharing your info--you've had such great success so far! Am I calculating correctly that you are eating around 50-60g of protein and 25-30g of carbs?

Here's a nugget of interest from the Performance book: "In Steve's study of competitive cyclist riding 100-200 miles per week and consuming a very low carbohydrate (less than 10 grams per day) ketogenic diet for 4 weeks, they had resting levels of BOHB between 1.5 and 2.5 millimoar and in overweight women consuming a hypocaloric ketogenic diet the levels were about the same or even higher."
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Old 01-05-2013, 01:44 PM   #135
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Buffy--thank you so much for the soup recipe! What is the shortest time that you've let it cook and had good results? Do you ever put in vegetables? I ask because DH is horribly sick with the flu right now and I want to make him some soup.
Oh I wish I'd seen this earlier - sorry.
I know Buffy adds 1/2 POUND of butter - I did too - so awesome...
And we could not stand how good it smelled and the chicken was falling off the bones at 2 hours.
About 30 minutes before I served it I added a chopped onion, about 3 minced garlic, a few roughly chopped carrots and a lot of chopped celery. Took those things about 30 minutes to get soft. Of course you could add them anytime.

So at 2 hours to 2-1/2 hours we enjoyed the heck out of that. I just left it to simmer until near bedtime.

I am sorry your DH doesn't feel well, this soup should put him in the right direction, though, I hope.
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Old 01-05-2013, 01:52 PM   #136
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Oh I wish I'd seen this earlier - sorry.
I know Buffy adds 1/2 POUND of butter - I did too - so awesome...
And we could not stand how good it smelled and the chicken was falling off the bones at 2 hours.
About 30 minutes before I served it I added a chopped onion, about 3 minced garlic, a few roughly chopped carrots and a lot of chopped celery. Took those things about 30 minutes to get soft. Of course you could add them anytime.

So at 2 hours to 2-1/2 hours we enjoyed the heck out of that. I just left it to simmer until near bedtime.

I am sorry your DH doesn't feel well, this soup should put him in the right direction, though, I hope.
Thanks Judy! I ended up throwing in some onion, garlic, and carrots along with 1/2 pound of Kerrygold butter. It smells soooo good. Even my boys are drooling waiting for it to be ready. I probably should have made more.
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Old 01-05-2013, 02:05 PM   #137
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my readings tonight

BK 1.2 (changed my lunch from salad with protein to coconut meat/avocado smoothie today)
BS 5.2 (93)

55 minutes moderate cardio on xtrainer

weight 68kg (maintenance)
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Old 01-05-2013, 02:16 PM   #138
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Thanks so much for sharing your info--you've had such great success so far! Am I calculating correctly that you are eating around 50-60g of protein and 25-30g of carbs?

Here's a nugget of interest from the Performance book: "In Steve's study of competitive cyclist riding 100-200 miles per week and consuming a very low carbohydrate (less than 10 grams per day) ketogenic diet for 4 weeks, they had resting levels of BOHB between 1.5 and 2.5 millimoar and in overweight women consuming a hypocaloric ketogenic diet the levels were about the same or even higher."
Hi Kristn -

Yes, I'm consuming 50-60g of protein and 25-30g of carbs. I also should have mentioned that I'm nursing an 8 month old, so that would definitely contribute to a calorie deficit.

That is an interesting quote from the Performance book. I also noticed when I referred to the chart on page 33 of the Ketogenic Diet ebook that he notes people on the ketogenic diet can see concentrations of 5-6 mmol.

Guess I'll just keep testing and see how it goes
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Old 01-05-2013, 02:35 PM   #139
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Ive lost track of what your typical work out routine is.. but does it incorporate resistance training and sprints?

Couple recent studies showing that those are better for fat burning than the typical cardio... if you are interested I can pull them up for you.

Also kettlebells are awesome . I have a 60lb kettlebell that I work with at home once or twice a week that just kills me. Doesn't take much time either.

and.. I guess it goes unsaid.. BJJ! Something to consider since it incorporates both aerobic and anaerobic work!

I've also read in a few places that the body actually does need time to rest so that it can resume fat loss. When placed under constant stress.. as with nonstop exercise, it goes into fat/energy preserving mode. If you give it a few days rest, or even a week, sometimes that's all that it requires to jump start the fat loss.

orrrrrrr... you could just do what Buffy is doing.
Thanks - I was the one that posted tedious descriptions of my workouts earlier in this thread, and probably several other threads too! I've done heavy resistance training, HIIT and metabolic conditioning workouts for a verrrrry long time. (Now that I think of it, I was doing workouts that qualified as HIIT and met con before anybody heard of those names!?) Lucky for me, nobody ever had to talk me out of doing long, endurance cardio workouts, because I never liked those anyway. It was nice to find out that the exercise science research lines up nicely with my preferences! But, as I've been told numerous times already, I must have skipped class on "the importance of recovery" day.

I might try a kettlebell workout someday if it's alright to use dumbbells...my workout room is already crowded with too much equipment! Whatever workouts I do are gonna be at home, since I don't like the whole gym/workout-in-public experience (been there, done that years ago)...and there is no gym convenient to my house anyway.

I always take Sundays off, but if I am still sore on Monday like I am today, it's gonna be another rest day!! Owwwch!!
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Old 01-05-2013, 02:37 PM   #140
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Hi Kristn -

Yes, I'm consuming 50-60g of protein and 25-30g of carbs. I also should have mentioned that I'm nursing an 8 month old, so that would definitely contribute to a calorie deficit.
Interesting that you're nursing and doing this at the same time. It should definitely contribute to a calorie deficit!! I wonder if milk production is part of the reason for your high ketones after consuming foods that normally would have kicked you out of ketosis?

Quote:
That is an interesting quote from the Performance book. I also noticed when I referred to the chart on page 33 of the Ketogenic Diet ebook that he notes people on the ketogenic diet can see concentrations of 5-6 mmol.
Thanks, I just went and looked at that chart. I wonder about the difference between this and the Performance book which says that 3 millimolar is "about as high as most people eating a well-formulated ketogenic diet." I have definitely been higher than 3 millimolar myself when I was first testing, but I haven't seen those kind of numbers in a long time.

Quote:
Guess I'll just keep testing and see how it goes
Can't wait to see your results!
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Old 01-05-2013, 02:44 PM   #141
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Hi Kristn -

Yes, I'm consuming 50-60g of protein and 25-30g of carbs. I also should have mentioned that I'm nursing an 8 month old, so that would definitely contribute to a calorie deficit.

That is an interesting quote from the Performance book. I also noticed when I referred to the chart on page 33 of the Ketogenic Diet ebook that he notes people on the ketogenic diet can see concentrations of 5-6 mmol.

Guess I'll just keep testing and see how it goes
robynn!

It looks like from your data and blood levels that you could increase your protein levels a bit. 50-60 is low for your size and height. Especially if you are nursing a baby.
There seems to be no benefit to having ketone readings over 3 Mmol.

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Old 01-05-2013, 06:09 PM   #142
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Oh I wish I'd seen this earlier - sorry.
I know Buffy adds 1/2 POUND of butter - I did too - so awesome...
And we could not stand how good it smelled and the chicken was falling off the bones at 2 hours.
About 30 minutes before I served it I added a chopped onion, about 3 minced garlic, a few roughly chopped carrots and a lot of chopped celery. Took those things about 30 minutes to get soft. Of course you could add them anytime.

So at 2 hours to 2-1/2 hours we enjoyed the heck out of that. I just left it to simmer until near bedtime.

I am sorry your DH doesn't feel well, this soup should put him in the right direction, though, I hope.
All of this talk of soup inspired me to come out of lurking again! I am making beef bone broth in a pressure cooker. I've never added butter before, but will do so this time.

I have a question for Buffy and those of you who make broth with butter: after you refrigerate the broth, do you throw away the layer of fat that forms at the top, or would that defeat the purpose of adding the butter? Thank you!!
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Old 01-05-2013, 06:38 PM   #143
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All of this talk of soup inspired me to come out of lurking again! I am making beef bone broth in a pressure cooker. I've never added butter before, but will do so this time.

I have a question for Buffy and those of you who make broth with butter: after you refrigerate the broth, do you throw away the layer of fat that forms at the top, or would that defeat the purpose of adding the butter? Thank you!!


No I do not throw it away - it would defeat the purpose.
Hard to wrap my head around after all the years of "low fat", right?
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Old 01-05-2013, 06:59 PM   #144
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No I do not throw it away - it would defeat the purpose.
Hard to wrap my head around after all the years of "low fat", right?
Thank you, Judy! And, yes, even though I know intellectually that butter and animal fats are good (in the absence of carbs), it is still hard to accept it in practice. I've been on various diets in the past - but they were always low fat - the only thing that varied was the amount of carbs. I was most successful with diets that were low calorie, low carb and low fat, but they were not sustainable in the long term.

Thanks again for your quick reply. Can't wait to try the soup with the yummy butter!
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Old 01-05-2013, 07:01 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by SFGirl99 View Post
Can't wait to try the soup with the yummy butter!
Oh, I hope you like it and that I haven't oversold it!
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Old 01-05-2013, 07:06 PM   #146
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Oh, I hope you like it and that I haven't oversold it!
I'm sure it will be great - it already smells amazing!! Thanks
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Old 01-05-2013, 11:26 PM   #147
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Also.. I forgot to add that I love reading about your recipes.. I'm adding Buffy's soup to my repertoire...
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Old 01-06-2013, 07:39 AM   #148
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Good morning.

I am so excited for two things.
1. Test strips are coming tomorrow.
2. I am losing wieght.

I have been stuck around 205-208 for the longest time.
Over the last week and a half, I have steadily dropped to an even 200 this morning. I can't remember the last time I was in Onederland.

I have been basically just watching protein, keeping to around 100g. My only two test results were from a couple of weeks ago, with the last reading being 1.5.

Eating is the same. The only other thing I have changed is that for a Jaunary "challenge", I have given up all sweeteners. Prior I had probably been averaging 6 packets of splenda per day as well as six diet sodas.

I think the biggest thing is the protein. Like someone else had posted, I could tell you the carb count of everything from llow carbing for so many years. Never even considered the protein could be holding me back.

I feel so empowered. For the first time in years I feel I can actually reach my goal weight.
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Old 01-06-2013, 07:39 AM   #149
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Originally Posted by luigi_uk View Post
when you say "chili" you mean something bought ina botle at a supermarket, i eat chillies (home grown and fresh bought at supermarket) and find no problem with them raisng my BS. IE they dont!
By chili I meant the kind you can drink/eat as soup. With beans and beef and cumen and other things. I get confused with spelling between chili and chilli.
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Old 01-06-2013, 07:54 AM   #150
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For some reason I'm feeling sick at stomach!!yuk....can't eat any thing this morning!
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