January Nutritional Ketosis...Are you in the zone?

[shelley]

Originally Posted by lowcarbella

hi Shelley
I was/am in a similar boat to yours.
what I did was go for a Fat Fast.Then if I can lose,go for a Modified Fat Fast.If I can still lose ,then my thinking is that I increase my fat to protein ratio until I reach my NK macros,and somewhere in that line is my sweet spot.At least in my head,Fat Fast and NK are similar,Fat Fast has 90% fat,1000-1200 cals,very less protein around 30-50 max.,carbs very minimum.
whereas NK can be 65-90% fat,moderate protein-50-120 depending on the calculator you use and 20-50 carbs.
So IMHO Fat Fast is a very restricted form of NK.
If going on a Fat Fast gives you results,then whatever your macros ur doing on NK maybe too high for you,higher carbs,higher protein and higher fat plus calories.
My plan was to slowly increase my macros from the Fat fast and see where I stop losing anymore/not being in ketosis.
Surprisingly its not that much.Even when I slightly increase protein from more than 50 I stall.So far its working for me,but I am still in the middle of the experiment so no info until I really get some substantial results.This is bcoz I just started only few days ago after holidays.
Other reasons:thyroid issues,medications,any hormone therapy,already at goal weight,etc?
Hope you find out whats wrong soon.

Thanks so much for your post.....I have done the fat fast about 3 times in 4 months and it does get me into ketosis...but I have gone right out of it the minute I eat anything other than fat. I've gotten really low on protein compared to what I used to consume. The other day it was 37 and today I'll probably be about 35.....I'm just not hungry.

I have no issues with thyroid, TOM, hormones, and I'm definitely not at goal weight...about 30 pounds higher than I used to be as a 30-50 yr old adult. Then POOF, I just gained weight....this is "after menopause" so can't blame the hormones.

I'm very stubborn and not willing to give up unless someone tells me that going nonfat/lowfat is okay and great for my bones and heart health!!!

I'm glad you are having small successes....I hope to have the same when I figure it out, but I'm definitely going to have to see how long I can do a fat fast to stay in ketosis this week and next.....or replace one of the 5 little meals with "real food" and try to keep the fat up.....much like what you are doing. Good idea!!! Thanks!

[shelley]

Originally Posted by mom2zeke

Shelley--How long have you been trying this new lower protein level?

Since January 6th only....a week. I'm going to start another fat fast and see if that will get me back into ketosis. I have never tested in the PM hours as I consume MCT oil, coconut oil and other fats that might give me a false reading....I'm only testing first thing in the AM.

[shelley]

Originally Posted by Georgette76

Question. If belly fat is starting to flatten out and get "squishy", is this a good sign?

Hi Georgette....I don't know the answer, but I did read somewhere (Body for Life book?) or on some forum that the way you can tell if the belly fat is breaking up is to "grab a roll" and sort of rub it side to side. If it feels like there are marbles inside, it's breaking up!

I did this when I was doing exercise like Lindsay, but I was eating nonfat and very little...and I lost 20# rather easily/quickly, and I can tell you that my belly roll felt just like it had marbles in it...and yes, it did break down and go away. Is that what you mean by "squishy"???

[NKSL55]

1.3 mM this morning. Up to 2.7 mM before my workout. 0.4 mM after the workout.

--
Phillip

[NKSL55]

Originally Posted by Georgette76

@Phillip, I hope you like the dressing. My kids, who love ranch prefer this over any store bought dressing you can find.

I did try making the ranch dressing, but I didn't have the ranch dressing powder, so I tried just adding spices I found on a web site to get the ranch flavor. I did not get the mix right. It is okay, but needs some more work.

I think my main mistake was using Dill seed, instead of Dill weed.

Thanks for the recipe!

--
Phillip

[lowcarbella]

hi Shelley if you want any ideas for Fat fast,I can post it in a different thread.I have Dr Salernos menu,Atkins Fat fast and a few of dana's recipes.I find that when I have some variation of menu ideas I can stay on it longer.No idea if I will have success though since I just started out.

[luigi_uk]

my blood ketones reading this morning was 0.9

my food macros yesterday were

fat 206g, carbs 42g, pro 58g total kc 2186

[UnstrungHarp]

Today's update...my scale has given me its last bizarre reading. It's ready to be boxed up and taken back to Academy to exchange for another kind....I guess the one they had that didn't do BF%, since they only had two models to choose from. I'm not going to post my weight sequence like I have been, since it appears it was all nonsense anyway. But the weight I'm logging today is 144.0 although I could have just picked a number out of the air and it might be just as accurate.

But as for ketones...3.5 this morning. By far, my highest reading ever. The past two days I got 2.7, 2.6, and now 3.5. The day prior to the 2.7 reading, I was a little high on protein (88g), higher on fat than I've been shooting for lately (143g), but total carbs were nicely in range at 16g. The next day, all my macros except carbs were lower (protein 60g, fat 132g) and my ketones dropped slightly to 2.6, but a 0.1 variation is nothing. Then, yesterday (the food intake that would have influenced this morning's reading), protein was 65g, fat was 117g (that's more like it!), and carbs were 18g. So I would not think that an excessively high fat intake would have spiked my ketones, especially not to that degree. I used to regularly get sub-1.0 readings on the morning after a day of 150g or more of fat. I also do not use coconut oil anymore.

Hm...the only other item of interest yesterday was my afternoon workout (about 2pm?), which was approx. 45 minutes of metabolic conditioning (Cathe's XTrain:Super Cuts DVD). The workout consists of full body movements that really spike the heart rate, and just when you can't take anymore, you quickly move on to a new move. Only light dumbbells and resistance tubing are used...it's not a heavy lifting workout. I don't know what type of workout is most likely to increase ketones, but surely any exercise-related ketone bump would be within a short period of time afterward - not 17 hours later, right?

And today is a much needed rest day!!

[BigRunner]

Weight steady at 198. I am claiming it and updating my stats.

Weight: 201 --> 199 --> 198 --> 198
BK: 2.1 --> 2.8 --> 3.2 --> 2.8

[BigRunner]

Originally Posted by mom2zeke

I realize that I'm in kind of a funk today and I didn't write this to be discouraging. I just find that it's easier for me to make WOE choices with this in mind rather than denying it. I wondered for years why I couldn't lose any more weight. Something had fundamentally shifted once I lost weight and the old rules didn't apply any more. Now that I try to take that into consideration I have finally found success.

Not discouraging. Discouraging is not taking this into consideration and struggling for years and not getting to goal weight.

I embrace this fact and will adjust accordingly.

Thank you for the "tough love" insight.

[portcop01]

Morning all, well had a bad week last week my friend died,and I had to set with him very stressful ,so I had some cake and ff and other bad foods.so Sunday and Monday was real bad days,I think the stress and I had cut back on my fat so I got a bad craving for sweets real bad,I gained from 158-164 unreal you gain that much weight,so I got back on track Sunday doing meat and eggs with extra fat.today I was back down to 161.4 .did not like that feeling at all.i want to stay on meat and eggs for week,does anyone think that's to long?

[mom2zeke]

Good morning everyone!

I'm still testing.

Starting 1/2/13:
Weight: 147.6 ->148.2 ->148 ->147 ->147.2 -> 147.2 -> 147 -> 146.8 -> 146 -> 145.4 -> 146.4 -> 146.2 -> 147 -> 146.8
AM Ketones: 0.2 -> 0.2 -> 0.1 -> 0.2 -> 0.3 -> 0.3 -> 0.8 -> 1.0 -> 1.2 -> 1.1 -> 1.4 -> 1.7 -> 1.2 -> 1.5

I've had some weird stomach issues and overwhelming hunger over the past few days. I think it may be cortisol related and I am going to try cutting back on my coffee a bit. I know that I should cut it out all together, but I love it so much. We'll see how it goes.

Congratulations on claiming your loss BigRunner!!

Lindsay--I'm glad you're returning the scale! That's interesting data on the ketones. I think they reflect how great you're doing with both macros and rest days! I'm sure your new scale will be more enlightening.

Shelly--I think that lowcarbella had a good idea. Start with the fat fast to get into ketosis and then slowly add protein and/or carbs to see where your limits are. I know that you keep your carbs low so you may be one who can't handle a lot of protein and stay in ketosis.

Luigi--you seem to have found a good macro range to keep you steadily in ketosis!

Becky--I'm so sorry to hear about your friend, that must have been terribly stressful When you go back to eating carbs there is an immediate water gain. But as many of us have found, after you've lost you can't go back to eating "normally" as you will gain easily and rapidly. This happens on all kinds of diets. The extra energy along with reduced metabolism is a recipe for regain.

[bjjcaveman]

mom2zeke
It's strange to see your recent weight gain, have you still been eating the exact same things you normally do or have you increased the calories as a result of the increased hunger?

Have your workouts been more intense? Maybe that's the source of the hunger?

[bjjcaveman]

Originally Posted by BigRunner

Weight steady at 198. I am claiming it and updating my stats.

Weight: 201 --> 199 --> 198 --> 198
BK: 2.1 --> 2.8 --> 3.2 --> 2.8

Keep it up! Love those high ketone numbers. What are your typical macros? Are you normally keeping carbs under 50gm?

[bjjcaveman]

Originally Posted by UnstrungHarp

Today's update...my scale has given me its last bizarre reading. It's ready to be boxed up and taken back to Academy to exchange for another kind....I guess the one they had that didn't do BF%, since they only had two models to choose from. I'm not going to post my weight sequence like I have been, since it appears it was all nonsense anyway. But the weight I'm logging today is 144.0 although I could have just picked a number out of the air and it might be just as accurate.

But as for ketones...3.5 this morning. By far, my highest reading ever. The past two days I got 2.7, 2.6, and now 3.5. The day prior to the 2.7 reading, I was a little high on protein (88g), higher on fat than I've been shooting for lately (143g), but total carbs were nicely in range at 16g. The next day, all my macros except carbs were lower (protein 60g, fat 132g) and my ketones dropped slightly to 2.6, but a 0.1 variation is nothing. Then, yesterday (the food intake that would have influenced this morning's reading), protein was 65g, fat was 117g (that's more like it!), and carbs were 18g. So I would not think that an excessively high fat intake would have spiked my ketones, especially not to that degree. I used to regularly get sub-1.0 readings on the morning after a day of 150g or more of fat. I also do not use coconut oil anymore.

Hm...the only other item of interest yesterday was my afternoon workout (about 2pm?), which was approx. 45 minutes of metabolic conditioning (Cathe's XTrain:Super Cuts DVD). The workout consists of full body movements that really spike the heart rate, and just when you can't take anymore, you quickly move on to a new move. Only light dumbbells and resistance tubing are used...it's not a heavy lifting workout. I don't know what type of workout is most likely to increase ketones, but surely any exercise-related ketone bump would be within a short period of time afterward - not 17 hours later, right?

And today is a much needed rest day!!

It's been my experience that an intense exercise session can bump my ketones up over 1.5 mmol, which is similar to what you just found.

Hope you have better luck with your next scale! Maybe you can try it in the store and make sure it gives you consistent readings?

[Buffy45]

Still here, still on KT but still not well. Seeing a cardiologist today.

[Georgette76]

Originally Posted by NKSL55

I did try making the ranch dressing, but I didn't have the ranch dressing powder, so I tried just adding spices I found on a web site to get the ranch flavor. I did not get the mix right. It is okay, but needs some more work.

I think my main mistake was using Dill seed, instead of Dill weed.

Thanks for the recipe!

--
Phillip

Dill weed makes all the difference. I'd think dill seed would make it taste bitter.

[Georgette76]

Originally Posted by shelley

Hi Georgette....I don't know the answer, but I did read somewhere (Body for Life book?) or on some forum that the way you can tell if the belly fat is breaking up is to "grab a roll" and sort of rub it side to side. If it feels like there are marbles inside, it's breaking up!

I did this when I was doing exercise like Lindsay, but I was eating nonfat and very little...and I lost 20# rather easily/quickly, and I can tell you that my belly roll felt just like it had marbles in it...and yes, it did break down and go away. Is that what you mean by "squishy"???

It's not marbly at all. It just feel softer. My gut isn't hard as a rock like it used to be. Even when I did Body for Life back in the mid 2000's, my stomach never felt like this. I was also bloated from the whole grains it required you to eat. My muffin top on my pants is virtually non-existent and I wear a size 16.

[Buffy45]

Originally Posted by Georgette76

It's not marbly at all. It just feel softer. My gut isn't hard as a rock like it used to be. Even when I did Body for Life back in the mid 2000's, my stomach never felt like this. I was also bloated from the whole grains it required you to eat. My muffin top on my pants is virtually non-existent and I wear a size 16.

Definitely know what you are talking about but hard to describe.

[BigRunner]

Originally Posted by bjjcaveman

Keep it up! Love those high ketone numbers. What are your typical macros? Are you normally keeping carbs under 50gm?

Short answer: I'm not sure.

Longer answer: I am not logging right now and don't plan to start until I stop losing.

The only thing I am monitoring is protein. I actually use a food scale to measure portions of meat. I use the Rule of 7s (I think that's what it is) for protein, meaning I count an oz. of any meat or an egg as 7g of protein. Based on this I try to eat around 100g of protein each day. So, that is normally 14-18oz of meat and/or combined with eggs. Does that make sense? I don't eat dairy (other than butter) except for what cheese may be on a restaurant side salad or I will have a cheeseburger (no bun) once in a while.

For fats: Breakfast is coffee with canned coconut milk creamer. I add butter to most all vegetables I eat. I cook my eggs in coconut oil. I will ion occasion eat a spoonful of coconut oil/coconut butter.

No fruit. No grains....

I guess my WOE could be "LC NK Paleo + Butter"

Sorry for the book. My guess would be less than 30g total carbs (been eating LC for years. ate similar to now except for protein monitoring) and that the percentages would come out around 75/20/5 for Fat/Protein/Carbs. Just a guess.

[manuela_w]

I am pretty frustrated. Been NK since late November 2012, lost 18 pounds really quick, but I've been the same weight a month. I am trying intermittent fasting today, and maybe I need to give up Stevia and all sweeteners. My fat percentage is always high, around 70-80%. I also might not be drinking enough water - would that be enough to cause a stall?

[Buffy45]

Sounds like it is working great for you Big

[BigRunner]

The Rule of Sevens was from: The New Atkins for a New You

[Georgette76]

Originally Posted by manuela_w

I am pretty frustrated. Been NK since late November 2012, lost 18 pounds really quick, but I've been the same weight a month. I am trying intermittent fasting today, and maybe I need to give up Stevia and all sweeteners. My fat percentage is always high, around 70-80%. I also might not be drinking enough water - would that be enough to cause a stall?

From what I've seen with a friend who is doing NK she dropped all forms of artificial sweetners and upped her water intake and within a week or 2, she started dropping again. May be worth a shot.

[shelley]

Originally Posted by manuela_w

I am pretty frustrated. Been NK since late November 2012, lost 18 pounds really quick, but I've been the same weight a month. I am trying intermittent fasting today, and maybe I need to give up Stevia and all sweeteners. My fat percentage is always high, around 70-80%. I also might not be drinking enough water - would that be enough to cause a stall?

From what I know (which isn't a lot), water is very important to flush things out of the body. Others have said that the artificial sweetener issue isn't for everyone...for some it's a must to eliminate, and others tried eliminating them all and saw no change....it's something you can surely try to see where you fall in how your body reacts to them. But water....essential!

[shelley]

Originally Posted by BigRunner

The Rule of Sevens was from: The New Atkins for a New You

Thanks, but many of the women here are under 5'8" tall and that's where the chart begins!!!!

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by bjjcaveman

mom2zeke
It's strange to see your recent weight gain, have you still been eating the exact same things you normally do or have you increased the calories as a result of the increased hunger?

Have your workouts been more intense? Maybe that's the source of the hunger?

I have been eating more fat than usual and getting back into working out after a break. I'm not too worried--it seems like normal maintenance fluctuations. I know I have to work harder to get my weight back down to 145. It's just hard to make the adjustments when one is soooo hungry.

Originally Posted by Buffy45

Still here, still on KT but still not well. Seeing a cardiologist today.

Oh Buffy! Please let us know how the appointment goes. I am praying for you to feel better.

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by manuela_w

I am pretty frustrated. Been NK since late November 2012, lost 18 pounds really quick, but I've been the same weight a month. I am trying intermittent fasting today, and maybe I need to give up Stevia and all sweeteners. My fat percentage is always high, around 70-80%. I also might not be drinking enough water - would that be enough to cause a stall?

Hi Manuela! Can you give us more information? Are you testing? If so what are the results? What is your daily macronutrient breakdown in grams. What is a typical daily menu for you? Have you changed anything since you were losing?

Hopefully we can help you figure out what's going on.

[LarlaB]

Quick question for Kristn... I know you reached goal and then made adjustments to maintain. Care to share what those adjustments were? It seems obvious, to simply add more fat while keeping protein moderate & carbs low, but I wanted to double check.

I really want to remain in ketosis for running purposes and frankly I just feel really good with this WOE, but all I know how to do is lose- LOL. I woudl REALLLLLLLLLLY love to add more carbs/veggies but know that I need to keep it low enough to curb cravings. I am below goal and ready to see if I can find a new way of eating....

[portcop01]

Buffy praying for you!!hope you feel better soon.