January Nutritional Ketosis...Are you in the zone?

[clackley]

Originally Posted by mom2zeke

I cried with relief when my doctor told me my numbers were hypothyroid. Finally there was a reason that I couldn't lose weight and was falling asleep at 6:30 every night (along with a host of other symptoms). There's a lot of good information here on the thyroid forum (and many differing opinions like all the forums here on LCF). Shelley also knows a lot about thyroid and is a good resource.

I'm not sure what you've been prescribed, but if your doctor prescribed T4 only (Synthroid is a common brand name) then it can take 6 weeks or longer to really know if it's working. If you are taking dessicated thyroid or T4 and T3 combined you will feel the effects much faster (the T3 is the active hormone and starts working right away, the T4 is a storage hormone and needs to be converted by your body to T3 to feel the effects).

Some people do fine on T4 alone, but others find that they need both T4 and T3. That's why getting the free T3 and free T4 tested is important. If you are taking T4 and your doctor is only testing TSH and free T4 it's impossible to tell if you're converting T4 into T3 and you can look "fine" on the tests, but still feel quite hypo.

Just some things to keep in mind as you go down this road.

I have no idea how I missed this but I did. Thanks Shelley for commenting on it. I really needed this info. Thank you Kristn - you made it quite understandable!!

I fell giddy with relief and almost to tears at the doc's. After so long and such effort - well I was starting to really doubt myself. I was considering myself a Zucker rat.....

[Georgette76]

I'm new here and started NK last week. I'm a member of MDA and there are a bunch of us there doing NK as a way to get healthier and to drop fat. I started on the 2nd and have noticed that my clothes are getting looser. I'm not doing any ketone testing right now, can't afford it at the moment so holding off until I can. I have noticed I go to the bathroom more often and my breath is getting that tinny taste. I feel really great and my sleep has improved immensely. I'm just here looking into more research from your end. I do follow Dr. Attia's blog as well.

[JMCM1]

Hi Georgette!
This is a great group - lots of information here and we'll look forward to hearing what you experience, also!

[clackley]

Hi Georgette and welcome! Pardon my ignorance but what does 'MDA' stand for?

BTW, love Peter Attia's blog!!

[cici52]

The scale finally went down a pound. New number. I have been basically stalled for almost two years. Tried many different things, with some time off for pouting. Finally! Seeing that new number almost makes me cry.

[JMCM1]

Originally Posted by clackley

Hi Georgette and welcome! Pardon my ignorance but what does 'MDA' stand for?

BTW, love Peter Attia's blog!!

I love his blog, too. Very touching story yesterday about his math teacher. *sniff*
MDA = Mark's Daily Apple

Originally Posted by cici52

The scale finally went down a pound. New number. I have been basically stalled for almost two years. Tried many different things, with some time off for pouting. Finally! Seeing that new number almost makes me cry.

You're going to be our next success story!
Congratulations!

[tablis]

Originally Posted by cici52

The scale finally went down a pound. New number. I have been basically stalled for almost two years. Tried many different things, with some time off for pouting. Finally! Seeing that new number almost makes me cry.

Thats so amazung! so happy for you!

Originally Posted by Georgette76

I'm new here and started NK last week. I'm a member of MDA and there are a bunch of us there doing NK as a way to get healthier and to drop fat. I started on the 2nd and have noticed that my clothes are getting looser. I'm not doing any ketone testing right now, can't afford it at the moment so holding off until I can. I have noticed I go to the bathroom more often and my breath is getting that tinny taste. I feel really great and my sleep has improved immensely. I'm just here looking into more research from your end. I do follow Dr. Attia's blog as well.

Wonderful! Welcome!

That's funny about the bathroom... I know I'm getting back on track bc I'm totally constipated. Been a little lax on the magnesium...

[bjjcaveman]

Weight: 184 -> 182.8 -> 183.2 -> 182.8 -> 182.4
AM Ketones: 0.3 -> 0.4 -> 0.5 -> 0.6 -> 0.6

[LovePBandJ]

Hi all,

I am new here. I have been LCHF since October, 2012. Well, minus Christmas when I took a week of indulgence. Currently, I am working my way back to nutritional ketosis. I am in ketosis currently. Last morning BK test I was 1.7. That was on Monday.

Does anyone know how to tell when we have entered nutritional ketosis?

Since I am new, I am experimenting with NK. I need to figure out my ideal protein levels and would also love to figure out my max carb level. How do I go about doing this? My macros are currently set at recommended guidelines, but I'd like to know what is right for me and my body. I seem to easily go into ketosis, without much change. I have noticed that I do get the eye dryness when I am transitioning into NK. But that does go away after about a week. I know I can drink bouillon to remedy this, but for now, I just want to listen to my body and hopefully these cues will tell me when I am in NK, and not just ketosis.

I have been reading a lot of past posts and have enjoyed them. I am even making my version of the chicken soup with butter, today. It is a perfect rainy day for soup.

Jill

[Georgette76]

Originally Posted by tablis

Wonderful! Welcome!

That's funny about the bathroom... I know I'm getting back on track bc I'm totally constipated. Been a little lax on the magnesium...

MDA is Mark's Daily Apple, been primal for about 2 years. Going Grain free has been a wondrous change.

I take about 500mg magnesium before bed but it's #1 that is happening more often than #2.

[clackley]

Originally Posted by cici52

The scale finally went down a pound. New number. I have been basically stalled for almost two years. Tried many different things, with some time off for pouting. Finally! Seeing that new number almost makes me cry.

Brilliant!!! And I can relate to how that might feel.

MDA = marksdailyapple - Thank you!!

[mom2zeke]

Georgette & Jill!!

And congratulations on your loss Cici!

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by LovePBandJ

Hi all,

I am new here. I have been LCHF since October, 2012. Well, minus Christmas when I took a week of indulgence. Currently, I am working my way back to nutritional ketosis. I am in ketosis currently. Last morning BK test I was 1.7. That was on Monday.

Does anyone know how to tell when we have entered nutritional ketosis?

I think a lot of us here count consistent am ketone readings over .5 as being in ketosis.

Since I am new, I am experimenting with NK. I need to figure out my ideal protein levels and would also love to figure out my max carb level. How do I go about doing this? My macros are currently set at recommended guidelines, but I'd like to know what is right for me and my body. I seem to easily go into ketosis, without much change. I have noticed that I do get the eye dryness when I am transitioning into NK. But that does go away after about a week. I know I can drink bouillon to remedy this, but for now, I just want to listen to my body and hopefully these cues will tell me when I am in NK, and not just ketosis.

I think the best way to figure out your max levels is to slowly increase while testing. I would only do one macro at a time and go up slowly until you go out of ketosis (or your ketones get below your comfort level). Then back down to the lower level and hold that macro steady.

1.7 in the morning seems like a pretty solid number as the Performance book says that 1.5-3 is the ideal zone.

[LovePBandJ]

Originally Posted by mom2zeke

I think a lot of us here count consistent am ketone readings over .5 as being in ketosis.

...

1.7 in the morning seems like a pretty solid number as the Performance book says that 1.5-3 is the ideal zone.

According to the studies which contributed to Phinney/Volek book, it takes about 3+ weeks to enter Nutritional Ketosis, regardless of weight, activity level, body fat percentage. Does anyone notice a difference or feel a difference when in NK, compared to ketosis? After my HFLC break at Christmas, it took me less than a week to get ketone readings above 1.0 mM. My readings seem to generally be a little on the higher side. While in NK before Christmas, I had readings in excess of 5.0. I am hoping this means that I have a bit of carbohydrate "wiggle room."

[LovePBandJ]

Originally Posted by tablis

I was not keeping up for a few weeks... has anyone tried testing twice at the same time to see if you get the same reading? ...

I did once and the numbers were exactly the same. I use the Precision Xtra system. I don't bleed easily, so for the first test, it turned out I did not have enough of a drop to generate a reading, so in desperation, to not waste the strip, I squeezed my finger to generate enough of a drop. I know squeezing to generate blood is a no-no. So, after I did that, I punctured my fingers several more times until my body spontaneously produced a drop of blood. That reading was exactly the same as the squeezed-out blood drop reading.

[LovePBandJ]

Originally Posted by mom2zeke

Thanks for posting this! I read it the other day and have been thinking a lot about it in conjunction with Peter Attia's Ketosis part II blog post.

My take away is that if you're a competitive strength or power athlete then ketosis is probably not the best diet to use when training. But it's still uncharted territory and I don't know how much actual research on fat adapted power athletes has been done. As always, people need to eat and train to their goals.

NK has helped me get leaner and lower my BF% while getting stronger. Those are my goals and I'm happy with how it's going so far.

I do think the transition to fat-burning is hard when you're training and there are definitely set backs until you're fully adapted.

I noticed when I play tennis that my fast-twitch muscular response is slower while in nutritional ketosis. However, when I lift, I perform much better in nutritional ketosis. This seems to be in line with Attia's performance experiment. Although, I read, I think on Attia's blog, but possibly elsewhere (been doing a lot of reading on this subject lately) that those performance times catch up after some time (months) in nutritional ketosis. I ordered the UCAN products to see if they will help the glycotic movements associated with tennis. First match is next week. Although, I don't think I will be fully adapted yet, I am still going to give the UCAN products a try.

I sure love this site. You guys are fantastic!

[Georgette76]

This is a question that I have. Monday night, I didn't get my full 8-9 hours of sleep so I was exhausted yesterday and I was all emotional and crap and just wanted to eat. I didn't go hog wild on carbs (those were actually within my macros) but what I did do when I got home from work was to eat 8-10 strips of bacon, 2 eggs with hot sauce and sour cream and a low carb hot chocolate (Whipping Cream, almond milk and a square of 99% dark chocolate). Could the loss of sleep make me just want to pig out like I did at dinner last night? I was asking the ladies on MDA who are following the NK protocol and no one had an answer. Any thoughts?

[JMCM1]

Originally Posted by Georgette76

This is a question that I have. Monday night, I didn't get my full 8-9 hours of sleep so I was exhausted yesterday and I was all emotional and crap and just wanted to eat. I didn't go hog wild on carbs (those were actually within my macros) but what I did do when I got home from work was to eat 8-10 strips of bacon, 2 eggs with hot sauce and sour cream and a low carb hot chocolate (Whipping Cream, almond milk and a square of 99% dark chocolate). Could the loss of sleep make me just want to pig out like I did at dinner last night? I was asking the ladies on MDA who are following the NK protocol and no one had an answer. Any thoughts?

Exhausted is a tough place to make good decisions, that's for sure.
Could it be hormonal?

[Georgette76]

Originally Posted by JMCM1

Exhausted is a tough place to make good decisions, that's for sure.
Could it be hormonal?

I doubt it was hormonal. TOTM was last week and since I had the ablation done in August, I don't seem to get overly hormonal. I'm just glad I didn't attack the donuts that one of my co-workers brought in yesterday. They kept staring me in the eye calling my name. But I fought it.

[JMCM1]

Originally Posted by Georgette76

I doubt it was hormonal. TOTM was last week and since I had the ablation done in August, I don't seem to get overly hormonal. I'm just glad I didn't attack the donuts that one of my co-workers brought in yesterday. They kept staring me in the eye calling my name. But I fought it.

You are very very strong!

I hope someone else will have some thoughts on this. I've read so often where lack of sleep leads to weight gain - they rarely isolate the exact reason, just the cause & effect. Sorry I can't be more help.

[bjjcaveman]

Originally Posted by Georgette76

I doubt it was hormonal. TOTM was last week and since I had the ablation done in August, I don't seem to get overly hormonal. I'm just glad I didn't attack the donuts that one of my co-workers brought in yesterday. They kept staring me in the eye calling my name. But I fought it.

i have a bad history with this situation... donuts have won every time.

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by Georgette76

This is a question that I have. Monday night, I didn't get my full 8-9 hours of sleep so I was exhausted yesterday and I was all emotional and crap and just wanted to eat. I didn't go hog wild on carbs (those were actually within my macros) but what I did do when I got home from work was to eat 8-10 strips of bacon, 2 eggs with hot sauce and sour cream and a low carb hot chocolate (Whipping Cream, almond milk and a square of 99% dark chocolate). Could the loss of sleep make me just want to pig out like I did at dinner last night? I was asking the ladies on MDA who are following the NK protocol and no one had an answer. Any thoughts?

My guess would be increased cortisol due to lack of sleep was the cause of your increased hunger.

[JMCM1]

Originally Posted by mom2zeke

My guess would be increased cortisol due to lack of sleep was the cause of your increased hunger.

Oh snap! Cortisol.
Thank you.

[Georgette76]

Originally Posted by mom2zeke

My guess would be increased cortisol due to lack of sleep was the cause of your increased hunger.

Well darn. It didn't help that my husband kept texting me about what to do for his job. Oh well, it's just a day.

[Buffy45]

I'm still here and still NK but have been in the hospital with BP problems. Might not be posting as much but reading and keeping up. The nurses were so impressed with my low BS readings.

[Mobear]

Buffy I'm so sorry to hear of you BP problems. Please try to let us know what is happening. I'll be thinking of you and saying a prayer

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by LovePBandJ

According to the studies which contributed to Phinney/Volek book, it takes about 3+ weeks to enter Nutritional Ketosis, regardless of weight, activity level, body fat percentage. Does anyone notice a difference or feel a difference when in NK, compared to ketosis? After my HFLC break at Christmas, it took me less than a week to get ketone readings above 1.0 mM. My readings seem to generally be a little on the higher side. While in NK before Christmas, I had readings in excess of 5.0. I am hoping this means that I have a bit of carbohydrate "wiggle room."

I'm just curious about your definitions of NK vs. ketosis. Aren't they really the same thing, or am I missing something?

I do think that if you're getting really high readings then you have room to tweak both carbs and protein. I would go slowly though because just one day probably isn't enough to get the full picture of how a particular macro will effect your ketones.

[mom2zeke]

Originally Posted by Buffy45

I'm still here and still NK but have been in the hospital with BP problems. Might not be posting as much but reading and keeping up. The nurses were so impressed with my low BS readings.

Buffy! I'm so sorry to hear that you're having BP problems. I hope that you are feeling better and out of the hospital soon! Let us know how things are going.

[Georgette76]

Good luck Buffy!

[bjjcaveman]

Originally Posted by Buffy45

I'm still here and still NK but have been in the hospital with BP problems. Might not be posting as much but reading and keeping up. The nurses were so impressed with my low BS readings.

I was wondering where you've been! I'm hoping that your BP problems have to do with them being too low and now you're trying to wean off meds because of your amazing progress here.

In all seriousness, I hope everything works out ok. Being in the hospital stinks.