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Old 01-09-2013, 01:19 AM   #271
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Originally Posted by Mimosa23 View Post
Just stopping by quickly: I am very happy, I have lost a pain free, easy 8.8lbs so far, and cannot believe how good I'm feeling! This is great!
That's awesome! wow!

Quote:
Originally Posted by goolash View Post
well, heres something interesting.

This was done just for fun, but at 10:48 pm a few minutes before posting this, my blood ketones read 2.1 - now granted this is around 5 hours after dinner, and in the morning im willing to bet it will be the usual .2 or .3 ..if so......does anyone know what this may mean..or is it meaningless? But ...if i wasn't in fat burning mode (ketosis) - wouldnt this number still be 0 ? Is this a sign of anything obvious that i need to do to be burning ketones while i sleep? The numbers i care about most are those ones that are not moving on the scale, but as i say they arent, so these are the other numbers im having a go at
that's really interesting!

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Originally Posted by mom2zeke View Post
Interestingly I've been feeling pretty crummy since yesterday and my ketones seem to be increasing. I think this might be LC flu which I haven't experienced in a while. Headaches, brain fog, achy. I also performed with great mediocrity at kettlebells last night. Hopefully it subsides soon!
Hope you feel better soon!
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Old 01-09-2013, 01:26 AM   #272
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for making into day 2! Take as much time as you need to really get into the groove.


Thanks. I think I'm going to stay on induction until after the weekend. I always find weekends to be more difficult to log etc. AlsoI have quite a bit of company coming that I have to prepare carbs for... At least this way I don't have to count my protein. Monday the plan is full speed pursuit of nk....

Last edited by tablis; 01-09-2013 at 01:28 AM..
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Old 01-09-2013, 04:08 AM   #273
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well, heres something interesting.

This was done just for fun, but at 10:48 pm a few minutes before posting this, my blood ketones read 2.1 - now granted this is around 5 hours after dinner, and in the morning im willing to bet it will be the usual .2 or .3 ..if so......does anyone know what this may mean..or is it meaningless? But ...if i wasn't in fat burning mode (ketosis) - wouldnt this number still be 0 ? Is this a sign of anything obvious that i need to do to be burning ketones while i sleep? The numbers i care about most are those ones that are not moving on the scale, but as i say they arent, so these are the other numbers im having a go at
6 am - confirmed .2
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Old 01-09-2013, 04:54 AM   #274
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Thanks. I think I'm going to stay on induction until after the weekend. I always find weekends to be more difficult to log etc. AlsoI have quite a bit of company coming that I have to prepare carbs for... At least this way I don't have to count my protein. Monday the plan is full speed pursuit of nk....
I'm evidently more interested in following this thread than testing my own blood ketones, but I'm with you. Not counting protein and just staying low carb is at least a good way to keep from gaining or having to work so long just to get back into NK.

My BKs were low (0.2) right before Christmas, so I'm laying off testing for a little while. My DH and I are going to an extra-long weekend in California next week. These are longtime friends and I am sure there will be a great deal of gathering around food, so I'm just going to enjoy what I can and not worry too much.
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Old 01-09-2013, 05:10 AM   #275
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I'm evidently more interested in following this thread than testing my own blood ketones,
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Old 01-09-2013, 05:17 AM   #276
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6 am - confirmed .2
I was not keeping up for a few weeks... has anyone tried testing twice at the same time to see if you get the same reading? I did this with my glucose tester several times and it can be way off- therefore I don't freak out if my glucose is high and I don't feel safe when it's normal... In fact I stopped using it bc its so unreliable... I don't know what I would do if I were diabetic and had to adjust meds based on the numbers....
I know the ketone strips costs far more than the glucose ones though...but still its not really worth any $ if we don't confirm that it works... I just wonder if we are putting too much stock in the number these machines spit out.
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Old 01-09-2013, 05:59 AM   #277
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Originally Posted by goolash View Post
6 am - confirmed .2
Are you still tracking fasting blood glucose?

I find my fasting glucose is higher (90-105) in the morning and my blood ketones are low. If I test during the day or at night, my ketones (.5-1.0) are higher and glucose (80-90) is lower. That tells me I am burning ketones during the day, but making and using glucose overnight. It seems my body is not fully keto-adapted and reverting to gluconeogenesis at night which will drop ketone levels.

Last edited by drjlocarb; 01-09-2013 at 06:28 AM..
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Old 01-09-2013, 06:08 AM   #278
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goolash View Post
well, heres something interesting.

This was done just for fun, but at 10:48 pm a few minutes before posting this, my blood ketones read 2.1 - now granted this is around 5 hours after dinner, and in the morning im willing to bet it will be the usual .2 or .3 ..if so......does anyone know what this may mean..or is it meaningless? But ...if i wasn't in fat burning mode (ketosis) - wouldnt this number still be 0 ? Is this a sign of anything obvious that i need to do to be burning ketones while i sleep? The numbers i care about most are those ones that are not moving on the scale, but as i say they arent, so these are the other numbers im having a go at
Your body is always using both fat and sugar for fuel, what we want is for fat to be the main source of energy at all times. Having low ketones 1.-.4 shows that your body is producing some ketones, but they are not the main source of energy.

Hopefully someone can chime in on more of the science of all of this. But my understanding is that you can go in and out of ketosis throughout the day depending on exercise levels and food eaten. For instance, eating coconut oil or MCT oil will produce ketones for fuel even when you're not necessarily fully in ketosis.

Overnight your body uses and needs energy. If you have eaten enough protein for gluconeogenesis or you have enough glucose stored in your liver you can be knocked out of ketosis and back into sugar burning. My understanding is that we're trying to get into the state where this overnight glucose dump doesn't occur. This is confirmed by ketones over .5 upon waking. Like I said, someone help me out here if I'm wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimosa23 View Post
Just stopping by quickly: I am very happy, I have lost a pain free, easy 8.8lbs so far, and cannot believe how good I'm feeling! This is great!
Congratulations on your success!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tablis View Post
Thanks. I think I'm going to stay on induction until after the weekend. I always find weekends to be more difficult to log etc. AlsoI have quite a bit of company coming that I have to prepare carbs for... At least this way I don't have to count my protein. Monday the plan is full speed pursuit of nk....
I have the same issue on weekends, and with company around it's even harder!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMCM1 View Post
I'm evidently more interested in following this thread than testing my own blood ketones, but I'm with you. Not counting protein and just staying low carb is at least a good way to keep from gaining or having to work so long just to get back into NK.

My BKs were low (0.2) right before Christmas, so I'm laying off testing for a little while. My DH and I are going to an extra-long weekend in California next week. These are longtime friends and I am sure there will be a great deal of gathering around food, so I'm just going to enjoy what I can and not worry too much.
Just maintaining through the holidays and enjoying time with friends is a wonderful thing!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tablis View Post
I was not keeping up for a few weeks... has anyone tried testing twice at the same time to see if you get the same reading? I did this with my glucose tester several times and it can be way off- therefore I don't freak out if my glucose is high and I don't feel safe when it's normal... In fact I stopped using it bc its so unreliable... I don't know what I would do if I were diabetic and had to adjust meds based on the numbers....
I know the ketone strips costs far more than the glucose ones though...but still its not really worth any $ if we don't confirm that it works... I just wonder if we are putting too much stock in the number these machines spit out.
I have tested twice several times when I was unsure about the reading, but it always comes out the same, maybe once it was off by .1 which I consider an acceptable margin of error.
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Old 01-09-2013, 06:11 AM   #279
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Are you still tracking fasting blood glucose?

I find my fasting glucose is higher (90-105) in the morning and my blood ketones are low. If I test during the day or at night, my ketones (.5-1.0) are higher and glucose (80-90) is lower. That tell me I am burning ketones during the day, but making and using glucose overnight. It seems my body is not fully keto-adapted and reverting to gluconeogenesis at night which will drop ketone levels.
It would be of use to know your b.g. levels, Myles.

I have to say that I think berberine helps with this issue. I will be reversing my n=1 experiment by the end of the month and will see how I do without berberine.
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Old 01-09-2013, 06:16 AM   #280
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Good morning everyone!

Post off-plan meal (Tuesday 1/1) getting back into ketosis stats:

Wed: Ketones .2, Weight 147.6
Thurs: Ketones .2, Weight 148.2
Fri: Ketones .1, Weight 148
Sat: Ketones .2, Weight 147
Sun: Ketones .3, Weight 147.2, pm ketones 1.6
Mon: Ketones .3, Weight 147.2
Tues: Ketones, .8, Weight 147
Wed: Ketones, 1.0, Weight 146.8

So it looks like I'm really back in ketosis--it only took a week. Still not feeling 100%, hopefully today will be better.
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Old 01-09-2013, 06:19 AM   #281
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Ya Kristn!! I think it is a really great that you are sharing your experiences in this way. You are a long term low carber and you have clearly been fully keto-adapted and it is clearly evident that is takes more than a few days to get back into n.k.. It may take some of us even longer but it is fair to say that it does not happen within a day or two like I used to think. Great job!!!

Quote:
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Just stopping by quickly: I am very happy, I have lost a pain free, easy 8.8lbs so far, and cannot believe how good I'm feeling! This is great!
That is fantastic!!

Last edited by clackley; 01-09-2013 at 06:31 AM..
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Old 01-09-2013, 06:26 AM   #282
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hello....what is your opinion of the Precision Xtra blood glucose and ketone monitor by MediSense? it sells for $119 on amazon.
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Old 01-09-2013, 06:32 AM   #283
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I think the meter is good but does it come with strips? I got my meter free (but had to purchase b.g. strips). I am in Canada so it may not be the same in the U.S..
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Old 01-09-2013, 06:37 AM   #284
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hello....what is your opinion of the Precision Xtra blood glucose and ketone monitor by MediSense? it sells for $119 on amazon.
Hi - it's the one I use. It seems to be accurate, but I don't have anything to compare it to.

I got mine on ebay for about $20, new in box.
No strips came with it, though.
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Old 01-09-2013, 06:37 AM   #285
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it appears that it comes with a box of 100 strips, but i can't read the box to know if it is for bg or bk or both...it seems like it says the strips are for both?
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Old 01-09-2013, 07:01 AM   #286
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it appears that it comes with a box of 100 strips, but i can't read the box to know if it is for bg or bk or both...it seems like it says the strips are for both?
I can almost guarantee (almost) it will be 100 blood glucose strips.
One strip, to my knowledge, cannot test both blood glucose and blood ketones.

When I insert a blood ketone testing strip, my meter recognizes it and flashes KETONES at the top of the meter, so I'll know which is being tested. Hope that helps.
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Old 01-09-2013, 07:05 AM   #287
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Your body is always using both fat and sugar for fuel, what we want is for fat to be the main source of energy at all times. Having low ketones 1.-.4 shows that your body is producing some ketones, but they are not the main source of energy.

Hopefully someone can chime in on more of the science of all of this. But my understanding is that you can go in and out of ketosis throughout the day depending on exercise levels and food eaten. For instance, eating coconut oil or MCT oil will produce ketones for fuel even when you're not necessarily fully in ketosis.

Overnight your body uses and needs energy. If you have eaten enough protein for gluconeogenesis or you have enough glucose stored in your liver you can be knocked out of ketosis and back into sugar burning. My understanding is that we're trying to get into the state where this overnight glucose dump doesn't occur. This is confirmed by ketones over .5 upon waking. Like I said, someone help me out here if I'm wrong.
This is my understanding too.

I assume you meant 0.1 - 0.4 as a low not 1- 0.4.
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Old 01-09-2013, 07:23 AM   #288
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I have tested twice several times when I was unsure about the reading, but it always comes out the same, maybe once it was off by .1 which I consider an acceptable margin of error.
glad to hear this. I ordered a meter and a bunch of strips but I haven't gotten them yet... long story... hope to have them soon!

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Originally Posted by mom2zeke View Post
Good morning everyone!

Post off-plan meal (Tuesday 1/1) getting back into ketosis stats:

Wed: Ketones .2, Weight 147.6
Thurs: Ketones .2, Weight 148.2
Fri: Ketones .1, Weight 148
Sat: Ketones .2, Weight 147
Sun: Ketones .3, Weight 147.2, pm ketones 1.6
Mon: Ketones .3, Weight 147.2
Tues: Ketones, .8, Weight 147
Wed: Ketones, 1.0, Weight 146.8

So it looks like I'm really back in ketosis--it only took a week. Still not feeling 100%, hopefully today will be better.
that's wonderful news! thanks for posting all this- it really helps!
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Old 01-09-2013, 07:32 AM   #289
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This is my understanding too.

I assume you meant 0.1 - 0.4 as a low not 1- 0.4.
Yes! That was a typo and now it's too late to edit.
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Old 01-09-2013, 07:38 AM   #290
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hello....what is your opinion of the Precision Xtra blood glucose and ketone monitor by MediSense? it sells for $119 on amazon.
As others have said, it probably comes with glucose strips not ketone strips and you can get it cheaper through other sources. You can also get the Precision Xtra meter for free with 10 glucose strips. Do a google search: precision xtra meter free offer. Don't be put off by the "myfreestyle" in the URL, you can choose the Precision Xtra on the page. It will ask for your insurance company but two of us here didn't have an insurance company on the list and chose one at random. They don't ask for any other insurance information and your insurance is not charged.

Unfortunately there are no free ketone strips for the Precision Xtra, the cheapest way to get those is ordering through a Canadian pharmacy.
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Old 01-09-2013, 07:50 AM   #291
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thank you! which canadian pharmacy is the best place to order the strips?
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Old 01-09-2013, 08:19 AM   #292
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Good morning everyone!

Post off-plan meal (Tuesday 1/1) getting back into ketosis stats:

Wed: Ketones .2, Weight 147.6
Thurs: Ketones .2, Weight 148.2
Fri: Ketones .1, Weight 148
Sat: Ketones .2, Weight 147
Sun: Ketones .3, Weight 147.2, pm ketones 1.6
Mon: Ketones .3, Weight 147.2
Tues: Ketones, .8, Weight 147
Wed: Ketones, 1.0, Weight 146.8

So it looks like I'm really back in ketosis--it only took a week. Still not feeling 100%, hopefully today will be better.
Wow.. what a jump! that's fantastic.. and look at that weight fall off!
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Old 01-09-2013, 08:22 AM   #293
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mom2zeke - out of curiosity.. what was your off plan meal on 1/1. Was it just one meal or was it a whole days worth of off-plan meals, or more days?

And what did you eat?

The reason I'm curious is that it would be scary that only 1 meal could throw you so far out of ketosis that it takes a week to recover.... especially since I imagine you've been eating the same things that are ketone friendly on your on-plan meals after 1/1.
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Old 01-09-2013, 08:33 AM   #294
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6 am - confirmed .2
This was one reason I stopped testing myself in the evenings. I found that my evening numbers didn't correlate with my AM numbers.

One reason for this I was suspecting was the proximity of my meals and what I ate.

I know it takes around 2 hours to metabolize simple carbs... that's why they ask diabetics to check 2 hour post prandial blood sugars.

And we know that part of the reasons for the increased satiety we feel on a ketogenic diet are the fact that when we eat fats and proteins, these actually slow down digestion and require more time to process.

How much more time?

This is the question that I haven't found an answer to. Here is a separate forum thread I found where people discuss this.. but then numbers that i've seen people quote around the net are around 4-6 hours. It would be good to know if there are other scientific reasons for this.

But assuming this is true, assuming you eat a meal high in coconut oil and other fats, your body will be processing these macronutrients from the moment it hits your mouth to at least 4-6 hours out.

I suspect that this is the cause for the discrepancy in ketone readings between PM and AM readings. The PM readings can be affected by the ketones generated by something that was eaten 6 hours ago!

This is something that definitely bears more looking into.
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Old 01-09-2013, 08:40 AM   #295
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mom2zeke - out of curiosity.. what was your off plan meal on 1/1. Was it just one meal or was it a whole days worth of off-plan meals, or more days?

And what did you eat?

The reason I'm curious is that it would be scary that only 1 meal could throw you so far out of ketosis that it takes a week to recover.... especially since I imagine you've been eating the same things that are ketone friendly on your on-plan meals after 1/1.
Once a year I eat whatever I want for one meal on my birthday (I've been LC since 2001). We always go out for Chinese food and I eat everything including noodles, dumplings, etc. After that is chocolate cake and ice cream. I don't hold back because this is only once a year, so no tiny portions or slivers of cake. So, just one meal with many, many carbs!

I did jump right back into my normal meals the next day, but I guess that one meal was enough to fill up every glucose storage spot available.

I will say that in the past if I've gone over on protein for several days in a row it can take me a few days to get back into ketosis. It's not a fast or easy process which is why I like to keep myself in the zone as much as possible.
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Old 01-09-2013, 08:52 AM   #296
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Once a year I eat whatever I want for one meal on my birthday (I've been LC since 2001). We always go out for Chinese food and I eat everything including noodles, dumplings, etc. After that is chocolate cake and ice cream. I don't hold back because this is only once a year, so no tiny portions or slivers of cake. So, just one meal with many, many carbs!

I did jump right back into my normal meals the next day, but I guess that one meal was enough to fill up every glucose storage spot available.

I will say that in the past if I've gone over on protein for several days in a row it can take me a few days to get back into ketosis. It's not a fast or easy process which is why I like to keep myself in the zone as much as possible.
Wow.. that really illustrates how easy it can be to jump out of ketosis as opposed to how hard it is to get back in!

Especially with someone like yourself who is pretty active!
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Old 01-09-2013, 08:55 AM   #297
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thank you! which canadian pharmacy is the best place to order the strips?
I don't think that we're allowed to post the pharmacy name but a quick google search should come up with some options. I believe that they're ~2.00 strip when ordering from Canada, but I haven't done that yet myself. Others probably have more information about the process...
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Old 01-09-2013, 08:59 AM   #298
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well, heres something interesting.

This was done just for fun, but at 10:48 pm a few minutes before posting this, my blood ketones read 2.1 - now granted this is around 5 hours after dinner, and in the morning im willing to bet it will be the usual .2 or .3 ..if so......does anyone know what this may mean..or is it meaningless? But ...if i wasn't in fat burning mode (ketosis) - wouldnt this number still be 0 ? Is this a sign of anything obvious that i need to do to be burning ketones while i sleep? The numbers i care about most are those ones that are not moving on the scale, but as i say they arent, so these are the other numbers im having a go at
Myles--I wonder where you got the impression that any reading over 0 means that you're in ketosis? The Performance book says over .5 and I haven't read anything to contradict that. Do you have another source for this information?
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Old 01-09-2013, 09:46 AM   #299
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Originally Posted by mom2zeke View Post
I cried with relief when my doctor told me my numbers were hypothyroid. Finally there was a reason that I couldn't lose weight and was falling asleep at 6:30 every night (along with a host of other symptoms). There's a lot of good information here on the thyroid forum (and many differing opinions like all the forums here on LCF). Shelley also knows a lot about thyroid and is a good resource.

I'm not sure what you've been prescribed, but if your doctor prescribed T4 only (Synthroid is a common brand name) then it can take 6 weeks or longer to really know if it's working. If you are taking dessicated thyroid or T4 and T3 combined you will feel the effects much faster (the T3 is the active hormone and starts working right away, the T4 is a storage hormone and needs to be converted by your body to T3 to feel the effects).

Some people do fine on T4 alone, but others find that they need both T4 and T3. That's why getting the free T3 and free T4 tested is important. If you are taking T4 and your doctor is only testing TSH and free T4 it's impossible to tell if you're converting T4 into T3 and you can look "fine" on the tests, but still feel quite hypo.

Just some things to keep in mind as you go down this road.
Well written, Kristn!!!!!
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Old 01-09-2013, 09:51 AM   #300
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Are you still tracking fasting blood glucose?

I find my fasting glucose is higher (90-105) in the morning and my blood ketones are low. If I test during the day or at night, my ketones (.5-1.0) are higher and glucose (80-90) is lower. That tells me I am burning ketones during the day, but making and using glucose overnight. It seems my body is not fully keto-adapted and reverting to gluconeogenesis at night which will drop ketone levels.
this describes my test results perfectly!!!
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