High Fat NK 80/15/5 - January Version

[reddarin]

Originally Posted by drjlocarb

Sure!

The example they use is a woman who weighs 180 lbs and wants to lose to 140 lbs. The calories she would expend in a day would be 30 kcal/kg or about 2450 calories, assuming she is sedentary. They show 500 calories/day from the carbs and protein she would eat. The rest of the calories would come from the fat she eats AND the fat she burns from her own fat stores. They show 800 calories from dietary fat (or 1300 cal total from food) and the rest of her daily expended calories would come her own body fat. This comes to the total 30 kcal/kg they refer to, the food she eats and the fat she burns.

Now, as you get closer to your maintenance weight, you can try increasing your carbs and protein just a bit, but the 2200 calories a day, (35 kcal/kg assuming you are more active now), needed to maintain your new weight will have to come from increasing the fat in the diet so as not to draw on body fat.

Hmmm.

Didn't the example use a female that is 5'6"? Does height not matter for the example? If not then why is it mentioned? Would it be the same numbers for a person 5'1" tall? 5'11"?

How is 1300 calories determined to be the appropriate caloric intake?

What is the title of the Section that Chapter 16 is located in?

What is the title of Chapter 16?

Why has Dr. Phinney said that he would not recommend 1200 calories a day without clinical supervision and then promote 1300 calories as perfectly fine with no doctor supervision?

What about the 4 phases that the example speaks of? How are they determined?

What are the 4 phases? How do you feel they should be structured for any given person? When is induction over in this example?

[NKSL55]

Originally Posted by reddarin

I wonder what your results will be Shelley?

When I first started doing the T of CO as my last calories of the day, but always before 6pm, I did experience a bump in energy.

However, I took a full ounce of LouAnn CO an hour or so before turning off the light several days ago and had no trouble going to sleep. I was a little surprised.

So, does it mean that you build a tolerance to the energy bump?

There are some things that probably affect it:

I have been eating at least 2oz of CO every day for months now.

I am off plan and have been for, hmmmm, 8 days maybe. I was on for a week or so and off for a week or so before that. Anyway, on and off and on again while fighting the smoking thing (still smoke free though). At any rate, I was not in a keto-adapted state when I did the oz right before bed.

And, of course, I have red hair. That is always a factor. And the kick butt playlist for New Years.

Hi reddarin,

I tried CO in some broth about an hour my StrongLifts work out today. Similar to Monday's workout but I added a little more and did not drink any HWC+Coke Zero.

The dread I normally feel during my first few sets of squats was gone. I guess it could just be coincidence, but man, I think you are on to something here. My workout went great. Kind of long -- over 3 hours. But I didn't feel tired or demoralized at any point.

Great stuff, I think!

--
Phillip

[SouthernGirl61]

Hi to All! Hope everyone is continuing to shake off the holiday carb load! It was back to work day, blah!
Hi Shuns! Glad you are getting back on track.
Hey Darin! I am going to test the CO in the evening this weekend...that way if I get that "flash of energy" it won't cause harm, I'll just sleep later! I have been enjoying the coconut cream from Trader Joe's (yum) in morning coffee...no increased heart rate come to think of it.
Hi Shelley! OMG, I remember that Tiny Tim coming out too! Even as a child I could not "get" that man!
Hi Deborah! How are you doing?
Hi Jeanne! Welcome, I hope you will enjoy this WOE as we do. It is a bit complex with all the macros, but once you get your basic stuff down, it's not too rough. I find planning ahead to be vital.
Blonde, I too, love the pinot noir....red wines in general....2 buck Chuck. I have decided to put it away during January, maybe until Valentines. LOL on the MDA thread! I love PB...still have a small amount at times. HWC is a necessity. I agree, this WOE makes me feel high energy and clear thinking, and rarely hungry. All scores! Do what makes YOU feel good...
Hi Dazy! Glad you are back! The calorie requirement is tricky, my opinion is to pick a starting point with calories and go up or down from there for what works for you. Going too low will stall you, the body has ways of lashing out at us for that!
Hi Cheryl! Hope all your kiddies are back and happy after the holidays. OH MY! turkey bacon!! Such a dreadful creation. Just the smell!!
Now Darin, don't bring up upgrades! A smooth upgrade is truly an illusion! Just wait until tomorrow!
Hi Barbara! Welcome to you too! Darin often does all our work! He's very good at it....
Hi Mizz, are you still with us in Texas?
Hi Phillip....I think I like the CO in broth idea! TY!

[Buffy45]

Still here, jusy busy babysitting, back to normal in a day or two. On plan.

[theLossgirl]

Nothing to do with NK, but Mr. LossGirl and I just came back from seeing Les Miserables a few hours ago. Wow. I loved it, and highly recommend it.

[butterball]

morning Red, I'm over the pond so have just got up and paid homage to the sun.
I did work out the two sets of figures last night and got pretty close to yours,the difference being I subtracted carbs as well ,keeping them at 20gms. As you say though the difference in the protein requirements for the two goal weights are minimal ,about 19gms by my calculations so I will shoot for somewhere inbetween and see how it goes.
thanks

[butterball]

SG61 ,thanks for your kind welcome.
Barbara

[butterball]

Hi Jeanne, seems we have pretty much the same goals.Good luck with it !
Barbara

[reddarin]

Morning ya'll

Phillip, I would have gone with my nap suggestion

[reddarin]

Originally Posted by Buffy45

Still here, jusy busy babysitting, back to normal in a day or two. On plan.

Who are you babysitting?

[reddarin]

Originally Posted by theLossgirl

Nothing to do with NK, but Mr. LossGirl and I just came back from seeing Les Miserables a few hours ago. Wow. I loved it, and highly recommend it.

Isn't it a musical?

[reddarin]

Originally Posted by butterball

morning Red, I'm over the pond so have just got up and paid homage to the sun.
I did work out the two sets of figures last night and got pretty close to yours,the difference being I subtracted carbs as well ,keeping them at 20gms. As you say though the difference in the protein requirements for the two goal weights are minimal ,about 19gms by my calculations so I will shoot for somewhere inbetween and see how it goes.
thanks

Sounds like a good plan. Keep your calories up too. LC is not a low cal way of eating.

I think that if you are eating your protein grams in the range you calculated you'll be fine. With your total carb grams at 20g and then making up the rest in healthy mono and sat fats you'll be starting off on solid ground. You can always tweak fat grams downward as you see how your body responds.

[reddarin]

We need to clear up that thing about the so-called 'example' from the Living book for future readers of the thread.

It does not address how 1300 calories are arrived at. Does that mean that 1300 calories is appropriate for all cases? No. That is impossible. I wonder what the response would have been if the question didn't match the 'example' so closely?

Dr. Phinney himself said that he wouldn't recommend a 1200 calorie a day regimen without clinical supervision.

What is the title of the Section that this 'example' comes out of? "Clinical Application".

What is the title of Chapter 16, where this 'example' is located? "The importance of dietary fat in long-term maintenance". This chapter is dedicated to convincing health care providers that fat is healthy and *must* be a part of long term maintenance.

The example assumes a clinical setting where a team of professionals can monitor you while you eat a very low calorie plan.

The example also shows 4 phases. The phases are Induction, Weight Loss, Pre-Maintenance and Maintenance.

I wonder about the example used too because it shows a very Atkinsesque looking carb ladder since phase 1 and 2 are steady at 25g carbs (100 calories) and then in phase 3 they go up some unnamed amount and in phase 4 they go up further.

[dazygyrl]

Originally Posted by SouthernGirl61

Hi to All! Hope everyone is continuing to shake off the holiday carb load! It was back to work day, blah!
Hi Shuns! Glad you are getting back on track.
Hey Darin! I am going to test the CO in the evening this weekend...that way if I get that "flash of energy" it won't cause harm, I'll just sleep later! I have been enjoying the coconut cream from Trader Joe's (yum) in morning coffee...no increased heart rate come to think of it.
Hi Shelley! OMG, I remember that Tiny Tim coming out too! Even as a child I could not "get" that man!
Hi Deborah! How are you doing?
Hi Jeanne! Welcome, I hope you will enjoy this WOE as we do. It is a bit complex with all the macros, but once you get your basic stuff down, it's not too rough. I find planning ahead to be vital.
Blonde, I too, love the pinot noir....red wines in general....2 buck Chuck. I have decided to put it away during January, maybe until Valentines. LOL on the MDA thread! I love PB...still have a small amount at times. HWC is a necessity. I agree, this WOE makes me feel high energy and clear thinking, and rarely hungry. All scores! Do what makes YOU feel good...
Hi Dazy! Glad you are back! The calorie requirement is tricky, my opinion is to pick a starting point with calories and go up or down from there for what works for you. Going too low will stall you, the body has ways of lashing out at us for that!
Hi Cheryl! Hope all your kiddies are back and happy after the holidays. OH MY! turkey bacon!! Such a dreadful creation. Just the smell!!
Now Darin, don't bring up upgrades! A smooth upgrade is truly an illusion! Just wait until tomorrow!
Hi Barbara! Welcome to you too! Darin often does all our work! He's very good at it....
Hi Mizz, are you still with us in Texas?
Hi Phillip....I think I like the CO in broth idea! TY!

i wish my body were easier to read or that i KNEW how to read it better. using the 30 and 35 cal/kg of goal weight, my floor is 1840 cals (30cal/kg goal wt). i'm inclined to stay there. i have been off the crap eating of the holidays for several days but feel very little change in the way i feel/look in my clothes which is quite disconcerting. i thought for sure once i got back to more NK eating i would see a quicker drop of the carb fluid build up....it's not seeming to go that way...i don't know if it's too few cals or too many cals. it's all quite maddening and i wish i didn't dwell on it so much, food shouldn't have to be so complicated.

[reddarin]

This is not a thread that encourages low calorie eating. Particularly not as a starting point.

If you start off with Dr. Phinney's calorie level for your *goal* weight then you are starting off at a calorie deficit if you are over your goal weight.

*That* is why it is the start point.

The ideal is to start as high as is reasonably possible and work downwards from there. Gradually.

[dazygyrl]

I know...it just all so...ugh...I read one thing that makes sense then read something else contrary to the first thing and that makes sense too...I know I just need to make a decision and stick to it.

I need to go to the dr to have something on my hand looked and I'm putting it off b/c I don't want him to weigh me. I am over 15lbs higher than when I saw him for my last yearly physical and just don't want to deal with being weighed in the office but know need to get this on m hand looked at bc it's bugging me....how ridiculous is THAT??

[portcop01]

Doing good new low 158.6 that's 7 lbs in6 days..just doing meat and eggs with high fat,,just seems like the more eggs I eat the more I lose just dont understand..I really can't understand how I can eat co butter and hwc and lose weight,,,but I'm not question it.since I've been doing this I went from 205 to 158 ...

[reddarin]

Originally Posted by dazygyrl

I know...it just all so...ugh...I read one thing that makes sense then read something else contrary to the first thing and that makes sense too...I know I just need to make a decision and stick to it.

I need to go to the dr to have something on my hand looked and I'm putting it off b/c I don't want him to weigh me. I am over 15lbs higher than when I saw him for my last yearly physical and just don't want to deal with being weighed in the office but know need to get this on m hand looked at bc it's bugging me....how ridiculous is THAT??

lol!!

That is not ridiculous at all!! I'm with ya 100% on avoiding the frowny condescension that is inevitable.

Jog my memory, can you account for the weight gain? I mean, you know why you went up and it was because you got hooked on the sugar rush like Elaine from Seinfeld?

[reddarin]

Originally Posted by portcop01

Doing good new low 158.6 that's 7 lbs in6 days..just doing meat and eggs with high fat,,just seems like the more eggs I eat the more I lose just dont understand..I really can't understand how I can eat co butter and hwc and lose weight,,,but I'm not question it.since I've been doing this I went from 205 to 158 ...

Wow! Congrats Becky!!

[mizzcase]

Good morning all! Last day here in Austin, I LOVE it here, but after 3 weeks, I need a vacation from vacation. =) The good news is there looks to be PLENTY of accounting positions in the area should my Sailor find an engineering/management position here. Wee!!

Have a good day =)

[reddarin]

Man. This is a very interesting interview of Lierre Keith.

The Vegetarian Myth - YouTube

[edit: Well. heh, there is a lot of class warfare poop and (discredited) over-population rhetoric. Along with some eye brow raising causality statements.]

[edit: and primitive worship lol. It is the whole package.]

[reddarin]

That is interesting. A new study shows that moderately overweight people live longer.

I have not read the study material. From what I understand, though, it is based on the BMI which is arguably voodoo junk science.

One commentator remarked that the BMI being nonsensical is why the study shows counter-intuitive results.

I agree with that to some extent because I agree that the BMI is faulty to say the least.

However, I think the man has it wrong. It isn't that moderately overweight people live longer.

It is that subscribers to and steadfast practitioners of the mainstream nutritional mantra and weight guidelines die sooner.

I think there is probably a pharma connection too with the gawd awful medicine that is being Rx'd on the basis of relative statistical results (rather than actually significant results) like statins.

I'd be curious to know if the mortality rate in that group correlates with being under a doctor's care via actual visits or refillable Rx(s). I bet you the spheres overlap almost exactly.

[butterball]

Hi Red, thin ness dosnt necesarily equate to healthy.What these people doing the research dont understand is that foods arnt born equal !
Barbara

[Clueless]

Originally Posted by portcop01

Doing good new low 158.6 that's 7 lbs in6 days..just doing meat and eggs with high fat,,just seems like the more eggs I eat the more I lose just dont understand..I really can't understand how I can eat co butter and hwc and lose weight,,,but I'm not question it.since I've been doing this I went from 205 to 158 ...

Yahooo!
Great Job!

[reddarin]

Exactly right Barbara. And what did this thinner group do to get thin?

[Clueless]

I have tried the Co before bed the last 2 nights. Sheeesh!
I take CO during the day and think nothing of it so I figured no prob. Welll, my heart just beats outta my chest. I took a whole TBSP last nite and I had sweats and racing heart and had a hard time going to sleep. The CO myst effect my thyroid or something. I never had any probs during the day that I noticed.
Wonder if olive oil would be ok? Wonder if I should keep trying and use less?

[reddarin]

Okay. For posterity's sake. [and because it took me 28 hours to rediscover how to change this setting]

To turn off audible email notifications but still keep your status bar notifications for GMail on your Android phone:

1. Open Gmail.
2. Tap the menu button.
3. Tap 'More'.
4. Tap 'Settings'
5. Tap the email account name (rather than 'General Preferences').
6. Slide to the bottom.
7. Leave 'Email otifications' checked.
8. Tap 'Labels to notify'.

You'll see a list of at least 2 - Inbox and Priority Inbox. If you have set other labels to sync then they'll be shown here too. We'll do Inbox for an example but it is the same for all labels that you have set to sync.

Each label shows the current settings it has. Mine says: TaDa, Never, Notify once for new email.

1. Tap 'Inbox'.
2. Tap 'Ringtone'.
3. Scroll to the top of the list and tap 'Silent' then 'Okay'.
4. Tap 'Okay'.
4a. You may want to change the 'Vibrate' setting to on or off here too.

Back arrow your way out of GMail and enjoy the visible but silent notifications.

By the way, if you chose to uncheck the 'Email notifications' box you will turn off the audible notification but you also turn off the status bar email icon that becomes visible when you get an email. If you don't use your phone for email that can be an almost one click way of turning off notifications.

[reddarin]

Originally Posted by Clueless

I have tried the Co before bed the last 2 nights. Sheeesh!
I take CO during the day and think nothing of it so I figured no prob. Welll, my heart just beats outta my chest. I took a whole TBSP last nite and I had sweats and racing heart and had a hard time going to sleep. The CO myst effect my thyroid or something. I never had any probs during the day that I noticed.
Wonder if olive oil would be ok? Wonder if I should keep trying and use less?

Maybe use it much earlier in the evening Cheryl.

[shelley]

Originally Posted by portcop01

Doing good new low 158.6 that's 7 lbs in6 days..just doing meat and eggs with high fat,,just seems like the more eggs I eat the more I lose just dont understand..I really can't understand how I can eat co butter and hwc and lose weight,,,but I'm not question it.since I've been doing this I went from 205 to 158 ...

Fabulous Becky!!!!! Pretty soon you'll be a wisp of a woman!!!!! (I'm jealous!)

[shelley]

Major Red....can't remember the particulars of that study, but I saw an interview with 2 doctors on it, and it was something to do with the people in the study not being equally healthy, etc. Wish I could remember, but it didn't make sense to me at the time so was sort of half-listening. Did anyone else hear about it. It was majorly skewed and not to be believed was the bottom line.