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Old 12-10-2012, 01:07 PM   #1
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metabolism damage?

On another lowcarb forum, someone had replied to a post of mine aobut being frustrated and said this... i wonder if its true about me
Quote:
I looked at your posts.

Since I started at close to that number (315 lb), I thought I would comment and mention what DID work.

As far as diet and macros, unless you are making mistakes we don't know about (like the fat is trans-fats or something) I think you are getting all the benefit from LC as you are going to get. If you are not losing, stick with LC but keep looking.

What else could it be? In my case, I tried every version of diet plan and finished with them convinced that no one writing these things knows what they are talking about, and something is wrong that no one can explain. It was frustrating.

I ended up at a hormone doc and found the answers. LC would have helped on it's own, but there were more problems than LC alone could solve.

One thing my doc has on their handouts is this- Many people who are big and/or have been "yoyo" dieting can have metabolisms that are wrecked by as much as 40%. Mine was and still is. I'm 5'8", 185, 52, with clean blood tests and I can't go over 1,500 cal a day average.

So.. If you are convinced that you have done low carb right-
and you don't have serious thyroid issues, or chronic stress/chronic fatigue/ insomnia, or something else out of whack, and you are waiting for weight to change and it won't... 2,000 cal a day is just too much food.

If metabolism is really damaged due to past weight history, it could very well be that a 2,000 cal day has to be corrected to as low as 1,400. I really don't think the answer is going to be found with keto measurements, or refining macros any more than you have already.

Good luck!
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Old 12-10-2012, 02:04 PM   #2
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It's possible. I think a lot of people like to blame a broken/low metabolism, though, without confirming it. There are tests you can do that can measure your BMR or RMR. I have one done a few years ago as part of a study I was participating in at Johns Hopkins, but I've heard some dieticians do them, and some gyms even offer them. Otherwise, we're all just running on trial-and-error and guesswork.
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:28 PM   #3
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I personally think that people are quick to "fail" and want to try something else. It's a known fact that "for some", this NK eating can take up to 6 months, especially in a challenged individual such as the one that wrote the "quote" you have put out there.

I know that I was a borderline anorexic person since I was a dancer and "had to be thin" and 20# underweight was my norm. I went through early issues with menopause (30's) and have had a heck of a time trying to get this weight off. The only thing that worked was going back to that nonfat starving myself eating plan....and it sabotaged my health and raised my glucose, triglycerides and cholesterol among other things.

Now I'm sticking with this plan for 6 months. I'm not seeing progress, but I feel healthy. If I were wearing a tent and didn't have a scale or mirror I would feel *healthy*!!!!!

I think it's very true that we each have to find out own way. We each have our own "history" that has to have an effect on what is going on with us now. Some are male. Some are female. Some have challenges with thyroid and hormones. We are not the same at all.

Myles.....keep reading and learning. We will find our way, but we have to give it a chance and not flit from one thing to another.

Hang in there!
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Old 12-10-2012, 04:15 PM   #4
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Miles, can you post your menu along with your ketone readings? It would help to know current weight and macros too. It is more about a day to day habit rather that a week long foray. Low carb is not very forgiving. WW will allow variations from one day to the next, whereas a ketogenic diet will not.
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Old 12-10-2012, 07:37 PM   #5
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I am of the opinion that some people expect to undo years of poor nutrition in a matter of weeks or maybe months. This may not be the case for many. It may take much longer and it may require strict adherence to a well formulated low carb, moderate protein and high fat diet.

I have learned through my own personal experience that one evening of slightly off plan consumption can result in subsequent 10 days or so of just getting back on track. It just is what it is.....

Last edited by clackley; 12-10-2012 at 07:39 PM..
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Old 12-11-2012, 04:30 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jillybean720 View Post
It's possible. I think a lot of people like to blame a broken/low metabolism, though, without confirming it. There are tests you can do that can measure your BMR or RMR. I have one done a few years ago as part of a study I was participating in at Johns Hopkins, but I've heard some dieticians do them, and some gyms even offer them. Otherwise, we're all just running on trial-and-error and guesswork.
true

Quote:
Originally Posted by shelley View Post
I personally think that people are quick to "fail" and want to try something else. It's a known fact that "for some", this NK eating can take up to 6 months, especially in a challenged individual such as the one that wrote the "quote" you have put out there.

I know that I was a borderline anorexic person since I was a dancer and "had to be thin" and 20# underweight was my norm. I went through early issues with menopause (30's) and have had a heck of a time trying to get this weight off. The only thing that worked was going back to that nonfat starving myself eating plan....and it sabotaged my health and raised my glucose, triglycerides and cholesterol among other things.

Now I'm sticking with this plan for 6 months. I'm not seeing progress, but I feel healthy. If I were wearing a tent and didn't have a scale or mirror I would feel *healthy*!!!!!

I think it's very true that we each have to find out own way. We each have our own "history" that has to have an effect on what is going on with us now. Some are male. Some are female. Some have challenges with thyroid and hormones. We are not the same at all.

Myles.....keep reading and learning. We will find our way, but we have to give it a chance and not flit from one thing to another.

Hang in there!
you're the best Shelley. Truly

Quote:
Originally Posted by drjlocarb View Post
Miles, can you post your menu along with your ketone readings? It would help to know current weight and macros too. It is more about a day to day habit rather that a week long foray. Low carb is not very forgiving. WW will allow variations from one day to the next, whereas a ketogenic diet will not.
Copied from the ketone result thread:

- .3 again.... that was day 7 or 8 or NK attemtpts -
- fasting blood sugar was as low as its been at 4.0 (72) (and i do not have diabetes)
- weight the same'ish (like 323)

Yesterday:

Breakfast 6:30 AM : 4 Bacon, 2 eggs W/ 1 Havarti slice, and sour cream on top + coffee w/ hwc
Lunch 11 AM : 2 chicken thighs covered with costco jalapeno/artichoke dip, 2 bacon, some sour cream and a diet root beer
Snack: 3PM: a whole 90% LINDT
Dinner 7:30PM ish : mushrooms sauteed in butter mixed with chopped chipotle pepper and sour cream and some cream cheese

daily totals: 2482 cal, 226.3 fat, 92.1 prot, 24.7 carb (81/15/4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by clackley View Post
I am of the opinion that some people expect to undo years of poor nutrition in a matter of weeks or maybe months. This may not be the case for many. It may take much longer and it may require strict adherence to a well formulated low carb, moderate protein and high fat diet.

I have learned through my own personal experience that one evening of slightly off plan consumption can result in subsequent 10 days or so of just getting back on track. It just is what it is.....
I hear what you're saying Cathy, and if i was only doing this for a week, i would back off and be less frustrated. But i've been doing this since June and have yet to go below 323 and stay there. Over 6 months.

The thing that kills me the most is the not losing weight. My blood ketone readings could be whatever they want...but i just want to lose weight. The only things that have worked for me were atkins like 15 years ago. Then when i gained it all back and did southbeach and lost more. Then i gained it all back and did the low fat b.s. Since i've re-tried to do low carb many times..it hasnt worked again. Admittedly i've been yo'yo'ing for all my life. But since june i've really stuck to my guns

Last edited by Myles; 12-11-2012 at 04:35 AM..
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Old 12-11-2012, 05:01 AM   #7
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Myles I saw your menu for yesterday just my opinion !!cut out the sour cream for some reason it stalls me?you said you only had 24 carbs but you had a whole 90% choc.bar dont it have 12 carbs in 3 pc? Were are you recording food?
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Old 12-11-2012, 05:11 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by portcop01 View Post
Myles I saw your menu for yesterday just my opinion !!cut out the sour cream for some reason it stalls me?you said you only had 24 carbs but you had a whole 90% choc.bar dont it have 12 carbs in 3 pc? Were are you recording food?
Hi Becky, i just had some sour cream with breakfast before reading this. That might be my next step, start cutting out different things...
No, the lindt is 4 carbs for 3 squares, and there are 10 squares in a bar. I use ****** and input 1 serving as a custom food, and put a whole bar as 3.1 servings.
However, I havent' eaten the lindt every day, and my results havent changed. I didn't eat it mon/tue/wed of last week at all

Last edited by Myles; 12-11-2012 at 05:12 AM..
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Old 12-11-2012, 06:01 AM   #9
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hmmm I put Lindt 90 as a custom thing too, I have 4 squares is 1 serving, 1 serving is 236 calories and 14 carbs, 2.5 servings is 1 bar.

It is frustrating/discouraging when X doesnt equal Y. I have been experiencing it with my blood sugars lately and can relate. BOo, say I.
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Old 12-11-2012, 07:28 AM   #10
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When did you restart again Myles? How long have you been taking a whack at LC this time?

Are you following a specific plan or just making up your own version?

What/when is the last LC book you read?

I think you should drop the Lindt, count total carbs and keep total carbs under 20g for a few weeks.

Are you supplementing? Taking Magnesium? It is far more important than just for regularity.
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Old 12-11-2012, 07:30 AM   #11
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By the way, Phinney, I believe it was, said that an abused metabolism may some time to become whole and start working right.
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Old 12-11-2012, 07:33 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goolash View Post

The thing that kills me the most is the not losing weight. My blood ketone readings could be whatever they want...but i just want to lose weight. The only things that have worked for me were atkins like 15 years ago. Then when i gained it all back and did southbeach and lost more. Then i gained it all back and did the low fat b.s. Since i've re-tried to do low carb many times..it hasnt worked again. Admittedly i've been yo'yo'ing for all my life. But since june i've really stuck to my guns
Hey myles,
No great wisdom here but I sure do relate. I hope things come together for you-and the rest of us- soon!
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Old 12-11-2012, 07:50 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reddarin View Post
When did you restart again Myles? How long have you been taking a whack at LC this time?

Are you following a specific plan or just making up your own version?

What/when is the last LC book you read?

I think you should drop the Lindt, count total carbs and keep total carbs under 20g for a few weeks.

Are you supplementing? Taking Magnesium? It is far more important than just for regularity.
I've been on LC since June 25th Red, i had 3 cheat meals since that time, the last was USA thanksgiving on Thursday the 22nd (and i didn't actually go that overboard. Then i resumed LC the next day (fri). That weekend i started reading about J. Moore's N=1 experiments and i started reducing my protein and upping my fat the following Monday. So yesterday was day 8 of NK eating.

The last LC book i read in it's entirety was Gary Taube's Why we get fat. I have both of the Volek/Phinney books but have not sat down to read them yet.

I will drop the Lindt for a week or two as an experiment, and count max < or = 20 carbs.

In the morning i take a multivitamin, vit c, d and a fish oil pill. At night i take magnesium

I just want to lose weight again My size...323...i should be losing some $!@$ing weight

Quote:
Originally Posted by tablis View Post
Hey myles,
No great wisdom here but I sure do relate. I hope things come together for you-and the rest of us- soon!
me too tablis <3

Last edited by Myles; 12-11-2012 at 07:53 AM..
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Old 12-11-2012, 10:11 AM   #14
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HI Myles.....thanks for your sweet comment! Since we are "in the same boat" with regard to getting into NK and losing that number on the scale, let me tell you what I've learned from 2 very smart people about this that are NOT on this forum (there are plenty of smart ones here for sure!).

#1 You have to drink water to flush out your system. I was told 10-12 glasses a day for me at my weight.

#2 I agree with the others on dumping the sour cream and also the 90% Lindt (I have one square as a rare TREAT)

#3 And this will cause eyebrows to go up, but it's the same thing I was told last week by my new trainer/nutritionist who looked at my fitdays and said "where are your salads and veggies?" I added them back in...just the recommended ones, like romaine lettuce, broccoli, spinach, cauliflower (makes great faux potatoes) and green beans. I have done this since Friday. My ketones are rising (was a .9 today!!!! What?!?!?!! But I'll take it!!!) and my glucose went down (was up in the > 100 for far too long and I'm not diabetic either).

Some fats are also not good, and if you look at the oil/fatty part of the Costco stuff (I used to get it too), I believe there are no no things in it and so I tossed mine out. Could be another stall for you.

What has been working for me is to clean up my foods to be only fresh things (other than the canned green beans on occasion). Fresh meats, veggies, and now the delicious kerrygold butter!!! Oh my that is good! I've been making bullet proof decaf chai tea like others use in coffee. I think the caffeine really causes me issues, so it is still outstanding. So, maybe it was the addition of the bulletproof "tea" that got my ketones up. I know Major Red told me to try to get in the CO and MCT oil each day to get the ketones going...and it has worked. Before, I didn't drink coffee and had tea with sweet drops of sucralose only...so no butter, no CO, and then I started in with the MCT oil and then changed that to CO yesterday....I know that Phinney/Volek do not care for MCT oil although they did not share why. It was just one sentence where they mentioned that they didn't like it. So, I'm back to CO and it was good in tea. I didn't like it in coffee.

So sorry this is so long. It will take a while to tweak what works in your body that doesn't in others, and vice versa. Keep detailed notes. Note how you feel. I have to have protein with my fats so had a protein shake with my BPtea...otherwise it's too much fat and makes me feel ill.

You will find your way. I just know you will. Have you considered upping your calories for your size? Do you feel comfy/full with what you are eating or are you hungry? 2 chicken thighs isn't enough for me!!!! And you are bigger than I am so why aren't you eating more? Not hungry?

I love havarti also, but it's a soft cheese and it might be good to test out a vintage sharp white cheddar instead (hard cheese)???? Just trying to think of the things that helped me learn about myself and maybe they will help you. But just don't give up!!!!!

I have to tell you that Deepak Chopra did a series years and years ago about the body and how it has a brain of it's own. It will do everything it can to trick you into giving up on things easily. It's been tested and I tested it with an experiement I won't mention. But it's true. So....do not listen to your brain. Listen to your heart. You know this is the way to good health, and you know that your body's brain is doing to sabotage you at every opportunity to get you to quit and go back to "nonsense eating" and then you will be frustrated and angry that you didn't stick with the program. So....I'm going to hold you to staying the course! Okay?! If I can do it, you can do it! My brain is finally giving in and quieting down. Hang in there. And try adding a small salad or a small amount of veggies. When I did that, things turned around for me this week. So, maybe your body needs just a bit of veggies to keep the brain quiet??? Don't know, but I'm so here for you!!!!!
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Old 12-11-2012, 10:16 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goolash View Post
true



you're the best Shelley. Truly



Copied from the ketone result thread:

- .3 again.... that was day 7 or 8 or NK attemtpts -
- fasting blood sugar was as low as its been at 4.0 (72) (and i do not have diabetes)
- weight the same'ish (like 323)

Yesterday:

Breakfast 6:30 AM : 4 Bacon, 2 eggs W/ 1 Havarti slice, and sour cream on top + coffee w/ hwc
Lunch 11 AM : 2 chicken thighs covered with costco jalapeno/artichoke dip, 2 bacon, some sour cream and a diet root beer
Snack: 3PM: a whole 90% LINDT
Dinner 7:30PM ish : mushrooms sauteed in butter mixed with chopped chipotle pepper and sour cream and some cream cheese

daily totals: 2482 cal, 226.3 fat, 92.1 prot, 24.7 carb (81/15/4)



I hear what you're saying Cathy, and if i was only doing this for a week, i would back off and be less frustrated. But i've been doing this since June and have yet to go below 323 and stay there. Over 6 months.

The thing that kills me the most is the not losing weight. My blood ketone readings could be whatever they want...but i just want to lose weight. The only things that have worked for me were atkins like 15 years ago. Then when i gained it all back and did southbeach and lost more. Then i gained it all back and did the low fat b.s. Since i've re-tried to do low carb many times..it hasnt worked again. Admittedly i've been yo'yo'ing for all my life. But since june i've really stuck to my guns
Myles, have you had the full range of tests for thyroid issues, pituitary problems, liver problems, and cortisol/adrenal problems?

The person I found who was willing to order and interpret a full range of metabolic tests is a paleo-friendly nutritionist, whom I found by searching the online "Paleo Physicians Network." You might consider googling that and see if someone focused on metabolic issues is accessible to you; anyone on that list is likely to be open to lowcarb approaches. Good luck.
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Old 12-11-2012, 10:20 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shelley View Post
HI Myles.....thanks for your sweet comment! Since we are "in the same boat" with regard to getting into NK and losing that number on the scale, let me tell you what I've learned from 2 very smart people about this that are NOT on this forum (there are plenty of smart ones here for sure!).

#1 You have to drink water to flush out your system. I was told 10-12 glasses a day for me at my weight.

#2 I agree with the others on dumping the sour cream and also the 90% Lindt (I have one square as a rare TREAT)

#3 And this will cause eyebrows to go up, but it's the same thing I was told last week by my new trainer/nutritionist who looked at my fitdays and said "where are your salads and veggies?" I added them back in...just the recommended ones, like romaine lettuce, broccoli, spinach, cauliflower (makes great faux potatoes) and green beans. I have done this since Friday. My ketones are rising (was a .9 today!!!! What?!?!?!! But I'll take it!!!) and my glucose went down (was up in the > 100 for far too long and I'm not diabetic either).

Some fats are also not good, and if you look at the oil/fatty part of the Costco stuff (I used to get it too), I believe there are no no things in it and so I tossed mine out. Could be another stall for you.

What has been working for me is to clean up my foods to be only fresh things (other than the canned green beans on occasion). Fresh meats, veggies, and now the delicious kerrygold butter!!! Oh my that is good! I've been making bullet proof decaf chai tea like others use in coffee. I think the caffeine really causes me issues, so it is still outstanding. So, maybe it was the addition of the bulletproof "tea" that got my ketones up. I know Major Red told me to try to get in the CO and MCT oil each day to get the ketones going...and it has worked. Before, I didn't drink coffee and had tea with sweet drops of sucralose only...so no butter, no CO, and then I started in with the MCT oil and then changed that to CO yesterday....I know that Phinney/Volek do not care for MCT oil although they did not share why. It was just one sentence where they mentioned that they didn't like it. So, I'm back to CO and it was good in tea. I didn't like it in coffee.

So sorry this is so long. It will take a while to tweak what works in your body that doesn't in others, and vice versa. Keep detailed notes. Note how you feel. I have to have protein with my fats so had a protein shake with my BPtea...otherwise it's too much fat and makes me feel ill.

You will find your way. I just know you will. Have you considered upping your calories for your size? Do you feel comfy/full with what you are eating or are you hungry? 2 chicken thighs isn't enough for me!!!! And you are bigger than I am so why aren't you eating more? Not hungry?

I love havarti also, but it's a soft cheese and it might be good to test out a vintage sharp white cheddar instead (hard cheese)???? Just trying to think of the things that helped me learn about myself and maybe they will help you. But just don't give up!!!!!

I have to tell you that Deepak Chopra did a series years and years ago about the body and how it has a brain of it's own. It will do everything it can to trick you into giving up on things easily. It's been tested and I tested it with an experiement I won't mention. But it's true. So....do not listen to your brain. Listen to your heart. You know this is the way to good health, and you know that your body's brain is doing to sabotage you at every opportunity to get you to quit and go back to "nonsense eating" and then you will be frustrated and angry that you didn't stick with the program. So....I'm going to hold you to staying the course! Okay?! If I can do it, you can do it! My brain is finally giving in and quieting down. Hang in there. And try adding a small salad or a small amount of veggies. When I did that, things turned around for me this week. So, maybe your body needs just a bit of veggies to keep the brain quiet??? Don't know, but I'm so here for you!!!!!
Great ideas for all of us, Shelley. And I'm so glad that this advice is starting to turn things around for you. I wish you loads of success!
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Old 12-11-2012, 10:43 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shelley View Post
HI Myles.....thanks for your sweet comment! Since we are "in the same boat" with regard to getting into NK and losing that number on the scale, let me tell you what I've learned from 2 very smart people about this that are NOT on this forum (there are plenty of smart ones here for sure!).

#1 You have to drink water to flush out your system. I was told 10-12 glasses a day for me at my weight.

#2 I agree with the others on dumping the sour cream and also the 90% Lindt (I have one square as a rare TREAT)

#3 And this will cause eyebrows to go up, but it's the same thing I was told last week by my new trainer/nutritionist who looked at my fitdays and said "where are your salads and veggies?" I added them back in...just the recommended ones, like romaine lettuce, broccoli, spinach, cauliflower (makes great faux potatoes) and green beans. I have done this since Friday. My ketones are rising (was a .9 today!!!! What?!?!?!! But I'll take it!!!) and my glucose went down (was up in the > 100 for far too long and I'm not diabetic either).

Some fats are also not good, and if you look at the oil/fatty part of the Costco stuff (I used to get it too), I believe there are no no things in it and so I tossed mine out. Could be another stall for you.

What has been working for me is to clean up my foods to be only fresh things (other than the canned green beans on occasion). Fresh meats, veggies, and now the delicious kerrygold butter!!! Oh my that is good! I've been making bullet proof decaf chai tea like others use in coffee. I think the caffeine really causes me issues, so it is still outstanding. So, maybe it was the addition of the bulletproof "tea" that got my ketones up. I know Major Red told me to try to get in the CO and MCT oil each day to get the ketones going...and it has worked. Before, I didn't drink coffee and had tea with sweet drops of sucralose only...so no butter, no CO, and then I started in with the MCT oil and then changed that to CO yesterday....I know that Phinney/Volek do not care for MCT oil although they did not share why. It was just one sentence where they mentioned that they didn't like it. So, I'm back to CO and it was good in tea. I didn't like it in coffee.

So sorry this is so long. It will take a while to tweak what works in your body that doesn't in others, and vice versa. Keep detailed notes. Note how you feel. I have to have protein with my fats so had a protein shake with my BPtea...otherwise it's too much fat and makes me feel ill.

You will find your way. I just know you will. Have you considered upping your calories for your size? Do you feel comfy/full with what you are eating or are you hungry? 2 chicken thighs isn't enough for me!!!! And you are bigger than I am so why aren't you eating more? Not hungry?

I love havarti also, but it's a soft cheese and it might be good to test out a vintage sharp white cheddar instead (hard cheese)???? Just trying to think of the things that helped me learn about myself and maybe they will help you. But just don't give up!!!!!

I have to tell you that Deepak Chopra did a series years and years ago about the body and how it has a brain of it's own. It will do everything it can to trick you into giving up on things easily. It's been tested and I tested it with an experiement I won't mention. But it's true. So....do not listen to your brain. Listen to your heart. You know this is the way to good health, and you know that your body's brain is doing to sabotage you at every opportunity to get you to quit and go back to "nonsense eating" and then you will be frustrated and angry that you didn't stick with the program. So....I'm going to hold you to staying the course! Okay?! If I can do it, you can do it! My brain is finally giving in and quieting down. Hang in there. And try adding a small salad or a small amount of veggies. When I did that, things turned around for me this week. So, maybe your body needs just a bit of veggies to keep the brain quiet??? Don't know, but I'm so here for you!!!!!
You rock Shelley

I won't give up or falter. You have my word.

#1 I thought that maybe i wasnt drinking enough water, so i have upped it starting today!

#2 The lindt i quit now - no more. The sour cream - some are saying drop it, some are saying dont. AIeeee !

#3 I am definitely not eating enough veggies. TIME TO CHANGE THAT (but still stay under 20g carbs per day) - I WANT THEM

2 chicken thighs isnt enough, but when i added the guac, and sour cream and artichoke dip (all that fat!) it was filling and i was not hungry after

Some saying too much calories, some saying not enough. Truth Shelley - i dont know WHO to listen to.

The only thing i know for sure, is not to listen to my body. Fortunately i dont crave carbs anymore. I won't quit tho
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Old 12-11-2012, 10:47 AM   #18
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Myles, have you had the full range of tests for thyroid issues, pituitary problems, liver problems, and cortisol/adrenal problems?

The person I found who was willing to order and interpret a full range of metabolic tests is a paleo-friendly nutritionist, whom I found by searching the online "Paleo Physicians Network." You might consider googling that and see if someone focused on metabolic issues is accessible to you; anyone on that list is likely to be open to lowcarb approaches. Good luck.
I have never been tested for any of those things. Just the regular dr blood tests like sugar / cholesterol etc

I found the website you were talking about, but there are none in my city
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Old 12-11-2012, 11:04 AM   #19
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Myles....listen to your heart......try something for a few days and see if you feel any different. For some, they will notice right away, and for others, not so much.

I agree with the varying opinions...they are all over the place. That has been my issue as well....no, you need 1200 calories...no, you need 1900 calories. What is the right thing. Only you will know by testing each one out. This is a process and not an overnight fix. We didn't get in this pickle in a couple days. That's what I tell myself. Give it a while (you set the time) to eliminate the Lindt. You set the timeframe in trying to eliminate the dairy (not the Ghee) that could cause issues....or eat it in moderation and not in huge glops!

Truly....we are each a science experiment (per Buffy!!!!) and only WE can figure out what happens to use when we do eat something, or we don't. I have discovered that coffee/caffeinated or not, causes me unpleasant side effects. Tried it for a week and now it's gone. I feel better.

Also, you can have your own tests run without a doc if you are in America.....I am thinking you are not though.

So happy you are not going away in frustration. I nearly got there and then used my heart to get back into the game. I'm waiting for the big whoosh of loss.....I'll go for 5# overnight!! h a ha
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Old 12-11-2012, 11:54 AM   #20
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#3 And this will cause eyebrows to go up, but it's the same thing I was told last week by my new trainer/nutritionist who looked at my fitdays and said "where are your salads and veggies?" I added them back in...just the recommended ones, like romaine lettuce, broccoli, spinach, cauliflower (makes great faux potatoes) and green beans. I have done this since Friday. My ketones are rising (was a .9 today!!!! What?!?!?!! But I'll take it!!!) and my glucose went down (was up in the > 100 for far too long and I'm not diabetic either).
I like the sound of this but I feel scared to add them bc of how their carbs add up in my ******... I just love broccoli cauliflower and green beans...
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Old 12-12-2012, 07:32 AM   #21
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I am pretty sure you can add me to the broken metabolism list. Have been stalled for two years. I came here to get support while getting very low carb - a relatively new approach for me, not having LCed successfully since the 70s. That has taken place thanks in no small measure to the great support of the thread followers here. I am feeling better but not losing weight still.

Also, there is certainly conflicting recommendations on protein/calorie needs among the various keto doc authors. I am consistently below the recommendations of one thread leader. Consistently above the other.
My goal was to get the carbs out and return to JUDDD rotations without the carb hunger which I now have done. This will create a calorie deficit on the down days while continuing to raise my metabolism on the up days. I added my first veggies the past few days (just one per day). When the scale starts dropping, you can bet you will hear about it.

To me, the ultimate sustainable woe is the one that gives me the optimal health benefits, including ideal weight, while being able to move about in the society we live in. I intend to remain vlc/mp/hf, but need to see results. I do not intend to wait 6 months for that benefit based on any book. Meanwhile, I wish you all success and that you find the path that works for you. I am very thankful for everybody's help and will continue to pop in from time to time if you don't mind.
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Old 12-12-2012, 08:54 PM   #22
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To me, the ultimate sustainable woe is the one that gives me the optimal health benefits, including ideal weight, while being able to move about in the society we live in. I intend to remain vlc/mp/hf, but need to see results. I do not intend to wait 6 months for that benefit based on any book. Meanwhile, I wish you all success and that you find the path that works for you. I am very thankful for everybody's help and will continue to pop in from time to time if you don't mind.
My sentiments exactly. Won't give up, but also need some results, or to figure out what it takes (for me) - Also frustrated with the conflicting info you had mentioned.
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