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-   -   Question for Svenskamae (http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/nutritional-ketosis-high-fat-low-carb/790945-question-svenskamae.html)

cici52 12-08-2012 09:35 AM

Question for Svenskamae

Originally Posted by svenskamae (Post 16124087)
Have you considered combining the LCHF approach with JUDDD (alternate day calorie cycling)? I'm eating 300-500 calories per day on down days with JUDDD and eating around 2000-22000 calories on up days (never going above my carb or protein gram daily limits), so it works out to around 1200-1400 calories per day. But I am losing much better when I alternate low and higher calorie days than when I aimed for 1200 calories every day. Supposedly eating maintenance level or a bit higher calories half the time keeps your body from downsizing your metabolic calorie demands, but you still lose weight. The JUDDD threads, especially those about the benefits of JUDDD and the book (Johnson's Alternate Day Diet) explain this better than I can in a post. And it is perfectly possible to combine JUDDD with LCHF--plus, I have more energy and better mood on JUDDD plus LCHF than on just LCHF alone.

Svenskamae, I have completed 3 weeks LCHF. The first of the 3 was all over the board except the carbs were low and the fat was high while I was reading and trying to figure it out. The past 2 have been more planned but I am still confused on the protein issue. Have not lost any weight but have reached good appetite suppression. Had my bout of LC flu and feel good now.

Yesterday, circumstances caused me to grab a quart of fatty broth and drink that throughout the day and I realized it could have been a pretty easy DD. So I feel like I want to take another stab at JUDDD. There are so many different recommendations on the right amount of protein, depending on the book you are reading. I'm just wondering what you are using. Do you do lean protein on DDs or fat fast? I am thinking a fat fast would be easier as the protein does seem to stimulate hunger. Not quite sure how to approach the combining Juddd with LCHF. Have no idea if I am keto-adapted but would prefer to create a calorie deficit every other day rather than lower calories every day. Do you think it is too soon? Any thoughts or help would be appreciated.

Sueparl 12-09-2012 01:32 PM

I also would like info on combining JUDDD and HFLC. Anyone have any experience with this combo?

svenskamae 12-10-2012 01:31 PM

I do, I do! Sorry to keep you waiting, CiCi.

I find it pretty easy to combine JUDDD and LCHF. On my up days, I eat up to my protein limit (50 grams or so), up to my carb limit (under 30 net carbs), and then do fat for the rest of my calories (aiming for around 2000 calories total.) That means that I get a lot of calories from things like avocado, HWC in coffee, and full-fat dressing on salad. Because the logic of JUDDD is calorie cycling, I have to be careful to measure and weigh and track my calories online, but many of us are doing that anyway when aiming for nutritional ketosis.

On my down days, I eat so little (300-500 calories) that it's very easy to stay within my protein and carb limits (same limits as above, but I usually eat less than that). Because I like to begin and end the day with coffee or tea with some half and half, I usually get about 50 percent of my calories on down days from fat. Most of the rest of what I eat on down days is lean protein--with 4 ounces of chicken or turkey (no skin), a hard-boiled egg, and the mini-bonabel light cheese as my staples. I sometimes want something crunchy on a down day, so I have some raw radishes or sliced cucumber sprinkled with a little vinegar and sesame oil, and also drink broth and hot green tea and lots of water on down days.

I found that adjusting to JUDDD was way easier than adjusting to nutritional ketosis, because I'd already trained my body to burn fat. I'm not as hungry on 300-500 calories a day on JUDDD down days as I was on more calories when I initially cut back on protein for NK.

Cici, I find that fat (half and half in coffee) helps me hold off on eating until late on down days, and then the lean protein is most helpful, but that's just what works for me. Maybe doing mostly fat would work better for you. There are lots of different approaches and lots of very kind support on the JUDDD board.

I don't tend to do "meals" on JUDDD down days--I just start with coffee and then eat a little bit of protein as sort of a "treatment" for nagging hunger, off and on, during the day. Some people prefer high-volume meals and go for low-starch sauteed veggies and shirataki noodles; some just do satisfying liquids like broth and V-8; and some do tiny mini-meals all through the day, every hour or so. It's definitely something you can tweak to fit what works for you.

Since I'm so resistent to weight-loss, I figure that I need all the tools I can muster. I've been losing around 2 pounds/week, sometimes 3 pounds in a week, on JUDDD plus LCHF, and for a sloooooow loser like me, that's a huge success.

Come on over to the JUDDD board and introduce yourselves. People are very, very nice and helpful, and there are lots of threads to post on about how your up or down day is going and about your experience as a newbie on JUDDD.

cici52 12-10-2012 03:13 PM

Thanks so much. Two pounds/week is great progress. I'm sure this will be useful to others as well. Totally agree with the great support on the JUDDD board. I must say the folks here have also been very helpful.

Do you test for ketosis? I have not lost any weight since switching and don't test so have no idea if i'm in the right pocket with protein. However, I am definately lower than the highest recommendation and higher than the lowest recommendation so figure I need to create more of a calorie deficit to see some loss but don't want to give my already wrecked metabolism any excuse to slow down more. As you can see, I did JUDDD for a couple months before crashing and burning. That is why I decided to go NK and try again without the carbs to make me hungry. Tracking is no problem as I have tracked nearly every day since 8/1.

Well, guess there is nothing left but to jump in. I actually am going to count today as DD1 since it is after 5pm and I am just over 500c. Wish me luck.

svenskamae 12-10-2012 03:46 PM

Good luck, Cici! I look forward to seeing you on the JUDDD board, too.

I have a meter and test strips but haven't been testing for ketosis because I'm a bit phobic about needles. If JUDDD plus LCHF stops working for me, then I guess I'll have to make myself test, but so long as I'm losing, it doesn't seem necessary. I find that my biggest challenges on NK plus JUDDD are 1) keeping my protein low enough on up days and 2) riding out hunger on down days. But I'm muddling through both, and feel in a great mood on JUDDD plus am losing, so that's where I'll stay so long as it works.

You've already got your first DD back on JUDDD under your belt, so you're on your way. :high5: I hope it works for you in conjunction with NK.

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