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Old 12-11-2012, 07:29 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMCM1 View Post
From non-starchy vegetables? (Said the person who didn't read the book... )
From a few low-glycemic fruits?
from the book:
"5-10 gms from protein based food
10-15 gms from vegs
5-10 gms from nuts and seeds
5-10 gms from fruit
5-10 gms from misc"
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Old 12-11-2012, 07:45 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by tablis View Post
from the book:
"5-10 gms from protein based food
10-15 gms from vegs
5-10 gms from nuts and seeds
5-10 gms from fruit
5-10 gms from misc"
I wonder if they outline this because the book is geared towards athletically oriented people who may never have low carbed before? I know that a lot of people think of low carb as "no-carb" and have a hard time figuring out the carb portion of this. There is also a tendency among new people to get their carbs from things like nuts and seeds rather than looking at low-starch vegetables and they completely overlook carbs that are in protein foods like cheese and eggs.


As Cathy pointed out, us long-term low carbers kind of have this figured out, although a refresher is sometimes helpful.
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Old 12-11-2012, 08:08 AM   #63
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My hunch (hypothesis?) is that while P&V made great strides in this area there is still at least one missing piece of the puzzle-aside from gluconeogenesis- that would solve the problem of long term lo-carbers.
I mean they didn't really write these books for "us" but it turns out that most of us including JM are long term lo-carbers trying to unstall. So I'm thinking that aside from all those keto-adaptation phenomenae that P&V have observed so far - there are some other permanent or at least longer term physiological / hormonal changes that happen in the body of a long term lo-carber which makes it stop working.


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It would be nice if they would study some of us for their next book - besides JM - and it would be nice if it happened fast! (perhaps some material for your next contact with JM?)
This is my dream! I will definitely mention it when (if?) I ever hear back from JM or Dr. Phinney.

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One thing I wonder about is whether regenerated LBM has the same properties as the "original LBM". Meaning for those of us who have lost weight in the past without knowing about protecting LBM and lost some and then perhaps regained some... does the new LBM use up the same amount of fuel at rest as the original?Does the new LBM that is attached to the old stuff alter its functin in some way? (as examples) That sort of thing makes a big difference. etc.
Whatever it is that messes it up only seems to be activated by reintroducing carbs. Those that stay on seem to be able to maintain for a very long time (at least the ppl I know -myself included) its only if carbs get out of ctrl and the weight is regained does something change which makes it not work again. I'm not sure how it went for JM? Did he go off or did he gain his weight back while lo-carbing.
Well, it may be that the mess-up happend long before we started LC. Those of us who have had such success on LC were probably super-sensitive to carbs in the first place--so reintroducing them and hoping to maintain was never going to happen.

My understanding is that JM never totally went off of LC, but he definitely tried many different tweaks over the years (like most of us) but none of the tweaks stuck and he kept gaining when he went back to the diet that he followed to lose. He does have a fondness for LC "products" which I always found to be a hindrance rather than a help. And he's a big guy and he eats a lot. I also found that unlimited calories have not been my friend at a lower weight.
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Old 12-11-2012, 09:48 AM   #64
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My understanding is that JM never totally went off of LC, but he definitely tried many different tweaks over the years (like most of us) but none of the tweaks stuck and he kept gaining when he went back to the diet that he followed to lose. He does have a fondness for LC "products" which I always found to be a hindrance rather than a help. And he's a big guy and he eats a lot. I also found that unlimited calories have not been my friend at a lower weight.
And I think many many of us, particularly as we age, particularly if we are women, will find that calories absolutely do count.
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Old 12-11-2012, 11:26 AM   #65
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Well, it may be that the mess-up happend long before we started LC. Those of us who have had such success on LC were probably super-sensitive to carbs in the first place--so reintroducing them and hoping to maintain was never going to happen.
definately yes there was a problem before or we wouldn't have found ourselves LCing.
But some kind of change takes place when carbs are reintroduced that
still has influence even when the person goes back to limiting carbs. If we could reverse that, then LCing would work like it did the first time. And that was pretty fast and painless weightloss indeed.
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Old 12-11-2012, 05:13 PM   #66
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definately yes there was a problem before or we wouldn't have found ourselves LCing.
But some kind of change takes place when carbs are reintroduced that
still has influence even when the person goes back to limiting carbs. If we could reverse that, then LCing would work like it did the first time. And that was pretty fast and painless weightloss indeed.
This is interesting as I never went off LC once I started. I just assumed I would gain if I added back carbs. I have heard people talk about the "one golden shot" and how going back to LC after gaining never quite worked the same. I think that was enough to put the fear in me.
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Old 12-11-2012, 05:25 PM   #67
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This is interesting as I never went off LC once I started. I just assumed I would gain if I added back carbs. I have heard people talk about the "one golden shot" and how going back to LC after gaining never quite worked the same. I think that was enough to put the fear in me.
I'm quite new to LCing, but I have read this over and over as well.
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Old 12-11-2012, 07:33 PM   #68
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This is interesting as I never went off LC once I started. I just assumed I would gain if I added back carbs. I have heard people talk about the "one golden shot" and how going back to LC after gaining never quite worked the same. I think that was enough to put the fear in me.
nobody warned me
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Old 12-12-2012, 04:46 AM   #69
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This is interesting as I never went off LC once I started. I just assumed I would gain if I added back carbs. I have heard people talk about the "one golden shot" and how going back to LC after gaining never quite worked the same. I think that was enough to put the fear in me.
I wish i knew that back when i first did LC and lost a tonne of weight. Cuz its nearly impossible now for me to lose, which is how i ended up here.

Anyway, the last time i went off and back on i had some HORRIBLE pains..just terrible...i duno how/why, but i dont want to ever go off again
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Old 12-12-2012, 05:37 AM   #70
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I wish i knew that back when i first did LC and lost a tonne of weight. Cuz its nearly impossible now for me to lose, which is how i ended up here.

Anyway, the last time i went off and back on i had some HORRIBLE pains..just terrible...i duno how/why, but i dont want to ever go off again
... is it just us or does everyone find that if you go back to carbs you get horrible stomache pains for the first meal or two? It feels like the pains you get from diary if you are lactose intolerant. My theory is that the enzymes to break down carbs are made on a supply/demand basis and that when you never eat them the body doesn't have them around so the first few times it feels similar to eating diary without lactase until the production picks up again. Just a theory.
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Old 12-12-2012, 07:55 PM   #71
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... is it just us or does everyone find that if you go back to carbs you get horrible stomache pains for the first meal or two? It feels like the pains you get from diary if you are lactose intolerant. My theory is that the enzymes to break down carbs are made on a supply/demand basis and that when you never eat them the body doesn't have them around so the first few times it feels similar to eating diary without lactase until the production picks up again. Just a theory.
Tablis...thank you so very much for this post! I started introducing a salad and veggies due to my trainer/nutritionist insistence....and the first 2 nights (have only been doing it a few days) I had horrible pains around 9 PM. First night I didn't get to sleep until 5 AM...very uncomfortable. Last night I got to sleep and woke at 3 AM and finally got up at 5 AM and chugged a bunch of sea salt and was able to get back to sleep. And now I'm nervous about tonight. I figured it was the new introduction of the berberine even though it was 25% of the dose recommendation.

So, it was the introduction of the lettuce and veggies? Really?!?! I"m stunned. I have not heard that before but the timing for the veggies and berberine happened on the same day. And for me it's 2 days worth and hopefully today (day #3) won't be a repeat!
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Old 12-12-2012, 11:00 PM   #72
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It could be.. for me it was more if I would have a cup of rice, potato or bread or even too many carrots after months of LC. Its happened to me more than once. Sure helps not to cheat say at a party bc who wants to be in pain when you're at a party
It never happened to me with low starch vegetables. however, until now I never eliminated things like lettuce so maybe thats why i didn't have a problem with it. I will proceed with caution when I have some now...
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Old 12-13-2012, 04:26 AM   #73
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... is it just us or does everyone find that if you go back to carbs you get horrible stomache pains for the first meal or two? It feels like the pains you get from diary if you are lactose intolerant. My theory is that the enzymes to break down carbs are made on a supply/demand basis and that when you never eat them the body doesn't have them around so the first few times it feels similar to eating diary without lactase until the production picks up again. Just a theory.
For me it was not after the carb meal, it was seemingly random times after the carb meal and before the next carb or lc meal...it was horrible gas pains in my chest....even felt a lot in my neck/throat/head...really wierd bad horrible pains
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Old 12-14-2012, 03:06 PM   #74
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Goulash, I have had those awful pains from time to time too. Never associated them with a particular type of food. Find drinking warm liquid and being careful not to gulp air in the process seems to help bring the gas up and relax larnyx muscles.
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